Comics Latest Cup O' Joe and possible Spider-Man spoiler

[ScottishFogg]

One More Day ruined Spider-Man. They took a character who's supposed stand for responsibility and took twenty years of consequences away from him. Anything and everything he could have had or could have learned was gone. I just can't get interested in a comic that has such a clear and obvious reset button.

 

[roach]

I think what JQ and the writers at Marvel havent thought of is that Mephisto won that day. He got something he wanted. If Spidey was a Jedi he turned to the dark side in that moment. That for me is the moment Spider-man died. In that moment the most basic theme od Spider-man was broken..."With great power comes great responsibility." Just because you had the power to heal Aunt May doesnt mean you should...especially if the guy giving you a chance is the Devil. I have watched enough movies and tv shows, read books and magazines to know that if the devil offers you a deal you dont take it....hell Peter personally knows people who got shafted on the Mephisto deal plan.
However we shouldnt be surprised. The whole Marvel Universe has been shifted around into some crazy shadow of itself. The Avengers are no longer the team they once were. The X-men are now an army fighting in a war they once strived to prevent. Its only a matter of time until JQ turns his attention to the FF and then watch out.

 

[Themanofbat]

If people are so hell bent about alledged "reset buttons", they must hate reading Batman & Superman....



Continuity hasn't been changed that much.. at least were not starting over... OMD was certainly not the best option, but it's working now and the title is far from "ruined"... perhaps in the eyes of "some" pretentiousw fanboys, but not in mine...

 

[Meehaul]

I feel their pain. Although I thought the marriage ruined Spider-Man and betrayed Pete's ideals. And I still havent recovered from the horridness of the JMS run that betrayed the very origins of the character. At the end of the day, tho, I believe the marriage was sort of a gimmick and "The Other" was, well, just plain awful in my view. I thought OMD was a completely moronic thing to do to a character that Marvel has, at times, seemed hellbent on mucking up, but I have to say that BND has been great--a much needed reset. I could use better artists, though. I think the thrice monthly schedule does put a strain in the creative teams and it certainly makes it impossible to have one awesome writer/artist do the book.

 

[roach]

If people are so hell bent about alledged "reset buttons", they must hate reading Batman & Superman....



Continuity hasn't been changed that much.. at least were not starting over... OMD was certainly not the best option, but it's working now and the title is far from "ruined"... perhaps in the eyes of "some" pretentiousw fanboys, but not in mine...

you expect resets with DC...they reset their whole universe every several years.....pretty much if you were a fan of a married Peter and MJ well I guess it sucks to be you

 

[Themanofbat]

you expect resets with DC...they reset their whole universe every several years.....pretty much if you were a fan of a married Peter and MJ well I guess it sucks to be you

Geee... lemme think.... just around 15 to 18 months prior to Marvel surprising the whole reading world with some type of proposal that had no place being there, y;know, with all that lack of story development and intensity, DC created a book called Crisis on Infinte Earths that was meant to get rid of all that Earth 1/2 stuff and give themselves a proper continuity... and like OMD/BND, at the time, the past had alledgedly happened, but events in CoIE made it all "start over"... which at least did not happen with Spider-Man... and this was only 24 some years ago... peanuts in my comic reading career, and it was meant for a new begining... then some point around the early 90's, DC felt the need to "reset" again, because of continuity problems that came out of CoIE, always with the promise that the new way will be the way it is... so even as little as merely 15 years ago, DC and comic book fans did NOT expect DC to reset their continuity like a channel change with the remote control... and similarly to all the untimely deaths in ASM (Captain Stacy, Gwen, etc...), these "deaths" served a greater purpose to the book, in spite of the fact that those characters were liked by legions of Spidey fans... and whether you think it "sucks for you" because you were a fan of a married Pete & MJ, you have to appreciate "change" in books, whether you like it or not... and if you don't, then you stop buying the book... but as evidenced by the many decades of comic book reading, any fan should understand that nothing lasts forever, whether it was a single Peter Parker, or a married one... it never stays the same... otherwise, it would get boring.

Having said that, while I can appreciate some of the "creative" changes in some of the DC books, I have a harder time with the disregard to continuity, which has been maintained with the change to Peter Parker's marital status.

 

[roach]

hell I wouldnt have dropped the book if it wasnt the deal with the devil or the change that regressed the book.

 

[bullets]

One More Day ruined Spider-Man. They took a character who's supposed stand for responsibility and took twenty years of consequences away from him. Anything and everything he could have had or could have learned was gone. I just can't get interested in a comic that has such a clear and obvious reset button.

I haven't read a Spider-man comic since unless you count back issues. It's just not my thing but maybe it's good for the younger generation to get into it.

 

[farmernudie]

I was blessed and able to grow up and read the Peter PArker who progressed in some way, was a role model and a guy who did the right thing.

This generation, (as long as this reboot continues) gets to read about the Peter Parker who regressed, didn't experience any of his life lessons or experiences (since they never happened) and who is selfish and isn't a role model at all, in my eyes. This Petey Pan Parker guy is a real selfish hobo, among other things. Evil won, end of story.

 

[roach]

I dont understand how if I am a fan of the marriage I dont like change???? The marriage was change. Should it be discarded because someone decided to marry them and it wasnt a 20 issue crossover "The Courtship of Mary Jane"?

 

[Meehaul]

Well, it took about a decade for the debate about the marriage to die down: those of us who thought Pete's marriage to MJ was a violation of all the character was about, a betrayal of his responsibility, and a complete gimmick--especially given MJ's personality and character--so I suspect it will take at least a decade for this debate to sort itself out. Probably longer, as we didn't have the internet to keep the arguments fueled. I'm glad I lived to see the marriage undone, although I wsh they hadn't done it in such an incredibly lame way. The Other storyline and all this supernatural nonsense never made much of a fit with the Spider-World. A great story would have been Norman or Venom killing MJ and Pete realizing he'd erred by marrying in the first place. He'd have yet another reason to beat himself up.

 

[Themanofbat]

I dont understand how if I am a fan of the marriage I dont like change???? The marriage was change. Should it be discarded because someone decided to marry them and it wasnt a 20 issue crossover "The Courtship of Mary Jane"?

What I was suggesting that "change" occurs in comics... even changes that we completely disagree with... like the current removal of the marriage label... or even the marriage itself some 22 years ag... they're changes that some people don't like and some that some other may like... but at the end of the day, they happen...

I guess I just grew up in an older era of reading comics where if change occured that you didn't like, you simply waited it out to see how things would happen, or if the changes were so "drastic" that you might have to take therapy, then you simply dropped the book. You would write letters of discontent to the company, and you moved on...

And like yourself, a self-proclaimed lover of change (see above), it would be nice after close to two years since said change has occured, that we could come to SHHype and read something different, or that loveable "change", in the type of "Oh Noes!!! JQ raped my favorite childhood character and I would hate to be his wife if he hates marriage so much!!! Spidey sucks!!! Death to JQ" complaints that have become for the most part, a boring one trick pony that unfortunately, the internet will make me keep on reading said complaints for the rest of my life because people happen to think that what they type on SHHype really makes a difference...

 

[roach]

I never claimed that JQ raped my childhood, made comments about his marriage or tried to suggest that he be killed. Yes I can get behind change. However making a deal with the devil is a "violation of all the character was about, a betrayal of his responsibility, and a complete gimmick"

 

[Themanofbat]

I never claimed that JQ raped my childhood, made comments about his marriage or tried to suggest that he be killed. Yes I can get behind change. However making a deal with the devil is a "violation of all the character was about, a betrayal of his responsibility, and a complete gimmick"

As was the marriage back in 1987...

I wasn't attacking you personally... sorry if it came out that way... you've been a cool poster in my book... but I was just referring to the many who make such claims all over the internet...

 

[roach]

As was the marriage back in 1987...

I wasn't attacking you personally... sorry if it came out that way... you've been a cool poster in my book... but I was just referring to the many who make such claims all over the internet...

I try to be kool.
I dont see how getting married is a violation of what the character is about..I'll give you a betrayal of his responsibility but if that was the case he wouldnt get involved with anyone and I'll give the gimmick.

 

[Themanofbat]

I guess it just came out of nowhere... a few issues before the proposal, MJ walks into Pete's apartment where the Black Cat was making him breakfast... the sudden proposal really came out of nowhere, and just reeked of being way too "gimmicky" for me...

But that's just me...

 

[roach]

i agree with the gimmick but I dont see how its a violation of the character

 

[Reilly28]

Noooooooo! Can we please just leave MJ and Peter separate? A baby is a terrible idea. Comic book babies are stupid. Since the parents don't really age, then the baby always stays a baby and never becomes a worthwhile character. Look at Luke Cage and Jessica Jones' baby. Thats a dead end plot. Brand New Day was the best thing to happen to Spider-Man since a long time ago. I can't even name one story that was enhanced by MJ. Death of Jean DeWolfe, no MJ. Kraven's Last Hunt, MJ contributes nothing, except worrying that Peter was gone. If This Be My Destiny, no MJ. Ezekiel and Morlun Round One, no MJ. I could name like 15 more of the top Spider-Man stories all of which were better without MJ.

 

[roach]

Using that logic we should get rid of Aunt May too since she hasnt enhanced any stories

 

[Meehaul]

The marriage was a betrayal of the character because many of the early stories were premised on the idea that Pete couldn't lead a normal life as long as he chose to remain SM. That's why, in part, so many stories unfolded where Pete was trying to rid himself of his powers. The core of his character is responsibility. He knew that by remaining SM and bringing someone else into his life, he'd be placing them in jeopardy. That was the whole reason for the secret identity as well. More importantly, at least to me, is that the essence of the Peter Parker/Spider-Man dynamic has always been about loss and tragedy (Peter Parker) versus success against any odds (Spider-Man). The marriage--especially to a super-model-- upset that balance. Obviously, there arer many, many different takes on what forms the "core" of Pete's character and what he is all about--and what Spider-Man is always about. Pete wanted happiness in his personal life more than anything, but his role as Spider-Man forever prevented him from attaning it. Yet he was willing to sacrifce that happiness as Peter Parker because with great power (the accidental spider-bite--and don't get me started on how The Other storyline was far worse for the character than the Mephisto deal) comes great responsibility. But for me, that tragedy/loss versus victory/success dynamic is what made the character so interesting and set him apart from other costumed do-gooders. Of course, other people grew up with a different character, a guy married to a super model livin' large. I can understand why they'd prefer that character. Others like the idea of an aging character and would prefer to see Pete grow old, marry, have kids, and retire. So, each may have his own interpretation as to what makes the character "work" for him. I can only explain what about the character is important to me.

 

[roach]

Yes the early stories were premised on the idea that Peter couldnt lead a normal life...however the longer you do something the more you become used to it the easier it becomes.
If being in relationship or having a normal life is so against the character than everytime he went on a date, or dated it was against the character. His relationship with Aunt May is against the character. I dont buy that its against his character.

 

[Reilly28]

You said it perfectly Meehaul. The essence of the book Amazing Spider-man, should be tragedy and loss and "Parker luck" but the essence of Spider-Man and Peter is triumph over any and all obstacles.

 

[mre]

You said it perfectly Meehaul. The essence of the book Amazing Spider-man, should be tragedy and loss and "Parker luck" but the essence of Spider-Man and Peter is triumph over any and all obstacles.

I do not concur.

The essence of Spider-Man should be nerdy high school kid accidentally get's super powers, and must learn to use his powers responsibly. And how that responsibility effects his loved ones and peers.

Sure Peter has lost a lot, but I don't think his story should be a tragic one. And I always thought that the "Parker luck" originated from consequences Peter faced in his personal life because of Spider-Man.

 

[Reilly28]

Well, Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and multiple Spider-Man writers including Stephen Wacker have stated that this is the purpose of Spider-Man as a character.

 

[roach]

where and when did they state this???

The essence of Spider-man is that with great power comes great responsibility. Its not tragedy cause every story isnt tragic. It's not the Parker Luck because every story isnt about his bad luck.
If being Spider-man precludes Peter from having a normal life than Stan Lee didnt do a good job of showing it considering he didnt drop out of high school to become a full time Spider-man, he dated, went to college