The Dark Knight Ledger: Joker darker more sinister

[Bathead]

All this talk about Joker raping someone.Do people realize that this is still a Pg-13 movie geared towards kids, teens and adults?

I don't know where they get it either. He's NEVER been portrayed as a rapist, and there's no reason for the movies to make him one.

 

[The Joker]

I don't know where they get it either. He's NEVER been portrayed as a rapist, and there's no reason for the movies to make him one.

Some people had this silly theorey that when he stripped Barbara Gordon in the Killing Joke, he also raped her too.

 

[Bathead]

Some people had this silly theorey that when he stripped Barbara Gordon in the Killing Joke, he also raped her too.

I remember that. I even remember some had the sick idea that he raped her "in the bullet hole". No evidence in the story for any of this, it's just some people have really sick imaginations.

 

[terry78]

You don't want him to be the same as Nicholson's Joker, nor do you want him to be a version of the martians in Mars Attacks, who were all basically a bunch of mute mini-Jokers running around. A new interpretation may do good, but if he's seriously hardcore, you may not see too many toys in his image that year.

 

[joekerr]

Hello...has anyone here even read Batman #1 with the first appearance of Joker?

It puts a lot of emphasis on his EYES in that issue, way more than a laugh. In fact, I can't even remember a laugh in that issue (although I'm sure there was one) because they emphasized his psychotic eyes.

It would seem to me that they are topping all of you fanboys by taking a direct influence from the creator of Joker, and that creator's rendition via Joker's FIRST freakin' appearance!

 

[Brian Braddock]

I wouldnt mind seeing Ledger in a moment similiar to this at some point:-

Sheer madness and desperation in his eyes.

 

[joekerr]

OK...I just reread Batman #1...which is the first appearance of the Joker, and he doesn't laugh at all in the entire issue.

Get that? HE DOES NOT LAUGH ONCE!!


I don't think Nolan and co. are not going to have him laugh at all in the movie, though. So chill out fanboys.

 

[Cinemaman]

Well, I don't want to see Joker laughing in every his scene, but there should be at least 4-5 smiles.

 

[Retroman]

New pic of Ledger taken at the Toronto Film Festival.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060909.LEDGER09/TPStory/TPEntertainment/Movies/

 

[regwec]

I think you described the feel of OC fairly well and ,although inadvertantly, along with it the feel of Joker.

I've already answered that, when somebody else made the same remark. My reply was that you cannot compare a film (to which my comment alluded) to a character, and that J enjoys violence, rather than promotes it. He tends to actually be quite posessive of his own notoriety, and dislikes others stealing his press.

 

[Nefilim_Rising]

I think LEdger should portray Joker with the maniacal taunting of Eric Draven, the harsh methodical torture that Kevin Spacey's character emphasized to each of his victims in Se7en, for the laugh, watch "The Exorcist 3" (confessional box scene, runs chills down my spine everytime) and a wry, perverse and demented sense of humor (take note: "Diary of a Serial Killer")

 

[terry78]

People on here know WAY too much about serial killers and their habits.

 

[Nefilim_Rising]

People on here know WAY too much about serial killers and their habits.

nah, I'm just a film buff.

how would you prefer heath ledger's take on the joker be like though? just asking.

 

[7Hells]

I've already answered that, when somebody else made the same remark. My reply was that you cannot compare a film (to which my comment alluded) to a character, and that J enjoys violence, rather than promotes it. He tends to actually be quite posessive of his own notoriety, and dislikes others stealing his press.

Ya, that was me. And I argued that point but you seemed to have missed it eventhough you replied to my post. This thread was a bit crazy at the time so I cant fault you that but heres how it went.

Previously on Ledger: Joker darker more sinister...

No, The Joker doesn't glorify violence: he enjoys it, which is very different.

He wouldnt leave his signature, taking credit for his "work", if he wasnt glorifying it. He would simply take pleasure in the act itself and keep the rest quiet so he could continue without interference.

You have misread the thrust of my comments: I was deploring the narrative itself for feebly fetishising violence, not the characters within the narrative.

Then what is the basis for your claim of Ledger having no understanding of Joker?

So now that you say he doesnt like others steaing his press and is notority are you agreeing that the Joker glorifies his violence? That he considers it art, as he considers himself as much a performer as he does a murderer? Because if so I stand by what I said....

I think you described the feel of OC fairly well and ,although inadvertantly, along with it the feel of Joker.

because it glorifies violence in a particularly psuedo-artistic fashion

To me, that is the Joker and since Ledger has said he wants to take the same feel from OC and apply it to the joker and you claim that this is how the OC feels then I dont see why we are disagreeing about Legders views on the Joker.

 

[The Batman]

you guys make me laugh.

From the guys who take whatever ledgers says and uses it as a negative, to the guys so far up nolans ass that they bash anyone who complains....really...its all freaking hysterical

 

[regwec]

So now that you say he doesnt like others steaing his press and is notority are you agreeing that the Joker glorifies his violence?

There is the point of contention. To glorify one's own violence is merely to take glory in it. That is different from projecting glory upon violence in general. I think that certain films which orchestrate "designer violence" do the latter. The Joker does the former, not the latter.

The whole line of argument is silly, because it compared a character to a movie. To say that the citation of a film that golorifies violence is authentic to a character that enacts violence is no more sensible than commending a short actor to star in a short film.

 

[ultimatefan]

I've already answered that, when somebody else made the same remark. My reply was that you cannot compare a film (to which my comment alluded) to a character, and that J enjoys violence, rather than promotes it. He tends to actually be quite posessive of his own notoriety, and dislikes others stealing his press.

I think if there´s a way that Joker glorifies violence, is his cynical view of life in general, where he sees his own insanity and sadism not only as natural traits, but as a philosophy of life.

 

[terry78]

you guys make me laugh.

From the guys who take whatever ledgers says and uses it as a negative, to the guys so far up nolans ass that they bash anyone who complains....really...its all freaking hysterical

Raimi, Nolan and Singer - respectively getting ******io from fanboys since 2002.

Granted, I like their work, but if they **** up, I will acknowledge it.

 

[ultimatefan]

you guys make me laugh.

From the guys who take whatever ledgers says and uses it as a negative, to the guys so far up nolans ass that they bash anyone who complains....really...its all freaking hysterical

Ledger´s comment speaks for itself. How people still manage to spin it to sound like he doesn´t get the character is beyond me.

 

[Mr. Thing]

Raimi, Nolan and Singer - respectively getting ******io from fanboys since 2002.

Granted, I like their work, but if they **** up, I will acknowledge it.

Have you seen the SR boards?

 

[ultimatefan]

Have you seen the SR boards?

Yeah, some people there sound like he did the new Quest For Peace... Gimme a break...

 

[metr0man]

Some people had this silly theorey that when he stripped Barbara Gordon in the Killing Joke, he also raped her too.

Though I don't buy it, it's not all that silly a theory. Alan Moore wrote it, surely he knew that the thought would occur to people if a sick puppy like Joker takes off her clothes and takes photos, and they deliberatley leave it ambigious that some people would make the leap.

I'm guess it was deliberately left vague on Moore's part to f-ck with fans.

 

[The Sage]

Ledger´s comment speaks for itself. How people still manage to spin it to sound like he doesn´t get the character is beyond me.

The Clockwork Orange comparison went over my head, but his other comment sounded good. Still, I hope Joker has plenty of laughs in the movie. He is The Man Who Laughs, after all.

 

[ultimatefan]

Though I don't buy it, it's not all that silly a theory. Alan Moore wrote it, surely he knew that the thought would occur to people if a sick puppy like Joker takes off her clothes and takes photos, and they deliberatley leave it ambigious that some people would make the leap.

I'm guess it was deliberately left vague on Moore's part to f-ck with fans.

My guess is, if he did, he´d take photos of it and show them to Gordon just to **** up even more with his mind.

These days Alan himself is not a big fan of that story. He finds it too gratuitous and that it doesn´t have much to say. The Joker´s background story and his dark and cynical view of life are quite interesting, though.

 

[7Hells]

There is the point of contention. To glorify one's own violence is merely to take glory in it. That is different from projecting glory upon violence in general. I think that certain films which orchestrate "designer violence" do the latter. The Joker does the former, not the latter.

And thats where we disagree and agree at the same time
By glorifying his own violence he is glorifying violence in general. I think the kind of glorification you are talking about is the angle in which the director only has control of.
So I dont see how that fits in the discussion because Ledger wasnt comparing TDK to OC he was comparing the Joker to OC.

The whole line of argument is silly, because it compared a character to a movie.

Yes, that was my point from the beginning so perhaps we miss-communicated. Because from what I read of your statement, about Ledger having no understanding of the character, I took that as you comparing the Joker to Alex instead of the feel of the OC to the Joker as Ledger stated.

So I am still confused as I dont know if you still adhere to your perception of the Joker not being as you described the OC. That being the Joker glorifies violence in a particularly pseudo-artistic fashion.