Lee Bermejo and Brian Azzarello's Joker Graphic Novel

[CaptainClown]

not really the appropriate place for that sir.

 

[Drz]

How can people really define Joker when his personality keeps shifting from a harmless clown to a mass murdering psychopath. >_<

 

[The Joker]

When was Joker ever a harmless clown?

 

[Drz]

Okay harmless isn't the right word but i was talking of the Adam West Joker. :P

 

[The Joker]

Ooooh I wouldn't mess with him. He'll strap you into an electric chair, or even worse he'll feed you alive to a giant clam

 

[CaptainClown]

He evaporated people...That is harsh.

 

[darknight7]

It's true.
You can't argue what a distinct Joker would be.

He doesn't exist, so no one will really ever know.
It's just all about personal opinion. Whatever people enjoy will be their own personal favourite Joker.

There is no distinct Joker.

(and yes, I did catch his smart ass remarks, jokes and what not...I just felt kind of strange the whole time I was reading it, I plan on reading it again though because I kind of sped through it because I wanted to see what happened so bad. This time Im going to take my time and enjoy it)

--dk7

 

[margon]

When was Joker ever a harmless clown?

of course he was. he used to squirt paint at Bruce Wayne house

 

[darknight7]

of course he was. he used to squirt paint at Bruce Wayne house

haha i laughed out loud reading this/picturing it

--dk7

 

[Rasputin911]

It's true.
You can't argue what a distinct Joker would be.

He doesn't exist, so no one will really ever know.
It's just all about personal opinion. Whatever people enjoy will be their own personal favourite Joker.

There is no distinct Joker.

(and yes, I did catch his smart ass remarks, jokes and what not...I just felt kind of strange the whole time I was reading it, I plan on reading it again though because I kind of sped through it because I wanted to see what happened so bad. This time Im going to take my time and enjoy it)

--dk7

well, actually i think this book was trying to show what Joker would be if he lived in "our" world. So was TDK, though that was less realistic than this one

 

[darknight7]

well, actually i think this book was trying to show what Joker would be if he lived in "our" world. So was TDK, though that was less realistic than this one

I'm not trying to start a debate. I know what you are saying.

But why is it neccessarily how Joker would be in our world?

If he isn't real, pretty much any Joker could exist. Realistic or not, there is crazier stuff out there sometimes. If he exsisted, maybe he would just be a crazy clown who did things just for fun to prove that he could. Maybe he would be Heath Ledger's Joker. Maybe he would be the Joker from the Bermejo book.

No one ever knows.

To say: Azzerallo's Joker is seen as being depicted in the real world.

Can't be argued, because what is to stop someone from being SUPER flamboyant in the real world?

All Joker's are possible in the real world, just that some incarnations may be believed to be more realistic, but when it comes to the Joker it's all about being excentric and off the wall. A clown.

So the argument of "what is realistic" could go on forever.

--dk7

 

[Rincewind]

I don't think that TDK's Joker was less realistic. But his focus was elsewhere. He didn't care about superficial things like mob territory, money or even power. He even despised the criminals, like the Chechen, who cared about this stuff. His goal was abstract - he wanted to immerse the people of Gotham into such horrible desperation that they would break and show how ugly is the soul of humanity.
While this Joker here was much more attached to the reality at hand and didn't seem fascinated by any abstract goals. To me he was like a crazy and extremely cruel mob boss (something he shared with Nicholson's Joker), but that doesn't necessarily make him more realistic.

 

[darknight7]

I don't think that TDK's Joker was less realistic. But his focus was elsewhere. He didn't care about superficial things like mob territory, money or even power. He even despised the criminals, like the Chechen, who cared about this stuff. His goal was abstract - he wanted to immerse the people of Gotham into such horrible desperation that they would break and show how ugly is the soul of humanity.
While this Joker here was much more attached to the reality at hand and didn't seem fascinated by any abstract goals. To me he was like a crazy and extremely cruel mob boss (something he shared with Nicholson's Joker), but that doesn't necessarily make him more realistic.

All true.
Good points too.

--dk7

 

[The Joker]

of course he was. he used to squirt paint at Bruce Wayne house

Vandalizing a millionaire's mansion with paint doesn't make the Joker harmless.

 

[ironman29758]

of course he was. he used to squirt paint at Bruce Wayne house

http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/comics101/46.html

 

[Rasputin911]

I don't think that TDK's Joker was less realistic. But his focus was elsewhere. He didn't care about superficial things like mob territory, money or even power. He even despised the criminals, like the Chechen, who cared about this stuff. His goal was abstract - he wanted to immerse the people of Gotham into such horrible desperation that they would break and show how ugly is the soul of humanity.
While this Joker here was much more attached to the reality at hand and didn't seem fascinated by any abstract goals. To me he was like a crazy and extremely cruel mob boss (something he shared with Nicholson's Joker), but that doesn't necessarily make him more realistic.

that's why i said he's less realistic. terrorists/criminals in our world don't pursue "abstracts." Even the worst ones don't cause chaos just for the sake of chaos

But all you need to do is look to Mexico right now to see stuff like what Joker was doing in Azzarello's story

 

[Temple Fugate]

you mean people actually rape other people??? O.O OMG

 

[Rincewind]

that's why i said he's less realistic. terrorists/criminals in our world don't pursue "abstracts." Even the worst ones don't cause chaos just for the sake of chaos

But he wasn't simply a terrorist or a criminal. First and foremost he was a madman. This is more crucial trait for him than the terrorism or the crimes. Most terrorists and criminals are either sane, or at least not as crazy as the Joker, and that's why they pursue goals that are attached to the reality. The TDK Joker just didn't care about such patterns and rules that demand that the criminals should chase reasonable and sane goals. You can't label him as less realistic just because he had unique (albeit crazy) ideas.

 

[CaptainClown]

TDK Joker actually did have a goal, his goal was to get everybody down to his level. He did it on the micro with Harvey Dent, he was aiming for the macro with the whole of Gotham city with the fairies. You could tell he was disappointed that his goal wasn't met when both the boats didn't explode.

 

[Rincewind]

Of course he had a goal. But my point is that his goal was too abstract, unlike the goals of Azzarello's Joker that were very much pragmatic and even down-to-earth in a twisted way.

 

[CaptainClown]

It still is a goal that some people pursue even today. It is just simple revenge, Joker had a grudge against life and wanted to make people feel like ****. He just went about it in a very planned organized fashion which is very uncommon just for simple revenge. He was more along the lines of The Count of Monte Cristo who would go through a huge plan to bring society to their knees.

 

[Drz]

Azzareollo's Joker raped a girl because her ex-husband raped his trust, he killed an old couple because he found it funny, he (or harley quinn thru his command) skinned a man alive to strip him in a stirp bar.

Azzarello's Joker is insane and realistic. :P

 

[CaptainClown]

Azzarello's Joker reminded me of some bullies I knew who were 'gang' affiliated. They weren't necessarily hardcore gangsters but they wanted to prove that they were so they were incredibly dangerous as they would do things out of the blue and for no reason in order to instill fear and 'respect'.

 

[JackN]

this joker is as realist as it gets this is Azzarello's way of sayingit's time for the real world joker he could be this crazy if he were real he is the JOKER

 

[Wedge A.]

Anybody else catch the Watchmen/Rorschach reference in one panel, right before Joker offers pills to Jonny in the car?