Sequels Let's pretend for a minute...

[spideyboy_1111]

Carnage wont be in a movie for a while, if ever... I'd rather see him in a dark scary venom spin off where spider-man (not peter) is in it as well.

 

[Symbiotica]

that there are no symbiotes or monsters of any kind. Let's pretend that Spider-Man works ALONE & has no time to devote to cat-burglars, reformed or otherwise. Let's pretend that nobody by any name other than Osborn has ever tossed a pumpkin. Let's pretend that Sony's not going to waste time & money on lame-os like the Spot & Kangaroo. Now, what villains would you really like to see?

The first, the best, the most obvious choice: ELECTRO!

Runner's-up:

*Scorpion
*Shocker should show up somewhere, what a neat cameo that would be;

*Best-case scenario: THE ENTIRE S6! And that means everybody, INCLUDING Ock and INCLUDING Vulture, but not Venom because Venom belongs nowhere near the Six. And I want to hear no whining from Sony about how they cant afford that, because after the last two movies they should just about be owning the world.

 

[Bapman]

carnage was a poor choice for intelligents... hes just psychotic... and venom just knows things.. hes not intelligent.

Vulture, Kraven, Chameleon and Lizard are all fairly intelligent...

though i agree Vulture could not carry a movie... though if you really knew electro.. you would know he could... though i think he'd work better with a team up with sandman or hydro-man, those are 2 deadly combos because well water conducts electricity and sandman wouldnt be electrocuted... though sandman would be a secondary villain and electro the main one..

Scorpion on the other hand has a GREAT story, and he doesnt have to be intelligent to be a leading villain... Scorpion and Lizard have the best storys that are left next to Venom (who will not be in spidey 3)

Dude... I KNOW Electro quite well... I still don't think he can carry a movie all by himself... he's just.... TOO THUG LIKE !!!
You're forgetting in the movie it would start with ELECTRO's origin... not the current ELECTRO.
Granted ELECTRO has become much cooler n deadlier than before... but I still get over his old self.
HMMM...
BUT
SAND-MAN... HYDRANT-MAN n ELECTRO team up would BE something exceptional.... I like it... I like it a lot.
KRAVEN, CHAMELEON n specially MYSTERIO in my opinion CAN carry the movie BUT the writer has to VERY VERY good and the story has to be VERY cleverly put to make them look act n FEEL atleast AS menacing as the Doc n Gobby.

Scorpion... I don't know... he's too dumb for my taste...
Sure I read a lot with him in it... but I just can't take him seriously...
Electro can atleast say he's beaten the living crap outta spidey n went toe to toe with Nate Grey.

Shocker... I really... REALLY wanna see him like in the ULT SPIDEY... he comes to rob a bank or armoured... then SPIDEY wraps up his hands with webbing n he "SHOCKS" himself to unconsciousness.

Another guy I can't take seriously.

Other than KRAVEN... MYSTERIO... SANDMAN... ELECTRO... CHAMELEON n KINGPIN.. n ofcourse... THE LIZARD
I can't find any other villains tht would look cool... or as menacing.

 

[The Navigator]

Dude... I KNOW Electro quite well... I still don't think he can carry a movie all by himself... he's just.... TOO THUG LIKE !!!
You're forgetting in the movie it would start with ELECTRO's origin... not the current ELECTRO.
Granted ELECTRO has become much cooler n deadlier than before... but I still get over his old self.
HMMM...
BUT
SAND-MAN... HYDRANT-MAN n ELECTRO team up would BE something exceptional.... I like it... I like it a lot.
KRAVEN, CHAMELEON n specially MYSTERIO in my opinion CAN carry the movie BUT the writer has to VERY VERY good and the story has to be VERY cleverly put to make them look act n FEEL atleast AS menacing as the Doc n Gobby.

Scorpion... I don't know... he's too dumb for my taste...
Sure I read a lot with him in it... but I just can't take him seriously...
Electro can atleast say he's beaten the living crap outta spidey n went toe to toe with Nate Grey.

Shocker... I really... REALLY wanna see him like in the ULT SPIDEY... he comes to rob a bank or armoured... then SPIDEY wraps up his hands with webbing n he "SHOCKS" himself to unconsciousness.

Another guy I can't take seriously.

Other than KRAVEN... MYSTERIO... SANDMAN... ELECTRO... CHAMELEON n KINGPIN.. n ofcourse... THE LIZARD
I can't find any other villains tht would look cool... or as menacing.

Mysterio's "fishbowl" helmet could look very interesting if you just did something with it--like have it faceted in some weird way, or have shallow designs carved on the surface.
Kraven I'm going to have to disagree with--the guy's one good arc was "Last Hunt" and there's no WAY Raimi's going to do that one.
I wanna see Lizard in SM3 so bad....

 

[Bapman]

Sighhh... same here...
THE LIZARD n GG 2...
well... more LIZARD.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Mysterio's "fishbowl" helmet could look very interesting if you just did something with it--like have it faceted in some weird way, or have shallow designs carved on the surface.
Kraven I'm going to have to disagree with--the guy's one good arc was "Last Hunt" and there's no WAY Raimi's going to do that one.
I wanna see Lizard in SM3 so bad....

I wouldnt say that exactly, Kraven looked pretty sweet in the MTV series.. so costume isn't a problem, then switch out vermin and put in Lizard and that story would play out very well.

Mysterio i agree with too.. his costume could look awsome, i picture his helmet in a cracked crystalic form so you couldnt see his face at all. I think it would look sweet.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

BapMan, you say that Gargan is dumb, but in real life if you are going to be a private eye, you have to be pretty sharp.

they have to make him realistic, with a realistic paranoia about being called names and make spidey a real hate figure for him. Not unlike the other villains that dislike him, but there needs to be a genuine hate, there (on the same level as Harry in some circumstances but with a much bigger temper)

plus gargan can also be giving the TOAD treatment in Xmen, and for me he came off as the most convincing and useful henchmen. pretty much taking care of cyclops, jean and storm all on his lonesome. no one would have expected that from toad

Gargan just needs his screen time to get a modern revamp, then all the writers will begin to cream over him, and he'll finally get the credit in the comics that he truelly deserves. Heck i'm suprised he hasn't killed anyone in spidey's life, or broken his back or something hardcore like that. Fighting scorpion SHOULD have spidey at his most agile and strong at the same time, and he should still lose. beating gargan should always be a last minute resort of using some local prop that happens to be able to swings things into spideys advantage.


man, i'm sorry if i'm ranting, but i think scorpion can become an all time great villain on the screen if people just put a little faith in him.

 

[Bapman]

BapMan, you say that Gargan is dumb, but in real life if you are going to be a private eye, you have to be pretty sharp.

they have to make him realistic, with a realistic paranoia about being called names and make spidey a real hate figure for him. Not unlike the other villains that dislike him, but there needs to be a genuine hate, there (on the same level as Harry in some circumstances but with a much bigger temper)

plus gargan can also be giving the TOAD treatment in Xmen, and for me he came off as the most convincing and useful henchmen. pretty much taking care of cyclops, jean and storm all on his lonesome. no one would have expected that from toad

Gargan just needs his screen time to get a modern revamp, then all the writers will begin to cream over him, and he'll finally get the credit in the comics that he truelly deserves. Heck i'm suprised he hasn't killed anyone in spidey's life, or broken his back or something hardcore like that. Fighting scorpion SHOULD have spidey at his most agile and strong at the same time, and he should still lose. beating gargan should always be a last minute resort of using some local prop that happens to be able to swings things into spideys advantage.


man, i'm sorry if i'm ranting, but i think scorpion can become an all time great villain on the screen if people just put a little faith in him.

Naaa Dude... you ain't Ranting...
I think you've come up with a BRILLIANT idea.
Seriously... he could get the TOAD treatment... they could change his "dumb" character into like a cool "HUMPHRY BOGURT" Private Eye style character... with some mental probs about being called names.

I mean you're perfectly right... TOAD is such a loser in the cartoons n comics but in the movie he was one of the coolest characters.
If SCORPION gets the same treatment then I'm game.
That would rock sooo much that its not funny.

BTW... SCORPION is faster [running not movement] n stronger than SPIDEY.
In real life its the same.
Scorpions don't hunt Spiders that are as big or bigger than them.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

i thought scorpions were one of a few natural predators of the spider, hence why it was chosen in the first place. maybe it only refers to certain spiders and scorpions in particular


I think scorpion is supposed to be stronger than spidey, but i've seen in recent times that he's not as fast. This can be translated to screen in a way like this.

pete gets complacent with his powers and he's not being really pushed to the limits by normal thugs

Scorpion comes on the scene and does serious SERIOUS damage. spidey goes on a whine, but realises that he can do this if he just concentrates, and fights at his very peak. He goes at it again and still gets clobbered. Then spidey goes and does some research, and learns more about gargan (i've written this all up in a fan treatment, so it makes sense to me, how this links up, don't worry, i'll post it one day once i'v finished) he goes and gets prepared this time. he still gets the crap beaten out of him, but he manages to get gargans tail off (for this instance assume he's just ripped it off in rage and beaten him with it). Gargan looses his current centre of gravity, and he get's beaten up pretty badly in a revenge type beating, but parker calms down and spits out something like

I'm not gonna kill you, i'm not the punisher. If you didn't recognise the costume, i'm spiderman


and then everything else sorts itself out in the film.


oh man, thinking about it just makes my eyes want to water. it's going to be sooooooo ****ing gooooooood......


*odin's lapdog just realises that he is typing at about one hundred miles per hour and everyone in the computer room is watching him and listening to the sound of his keyboard going crazy*

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

GO GO GADGET GARGAN!!!

 

[Bapman]

DUDE !!!
Now you're making ME like SCORPION !!!
Seriously... if pulled off like that... it would rock... no R O C K !!!
I love to see Spidey dodging like crazy... but Gargan still seems to faster...
then near the end Pete goes all out Spider sense autopilot n mad dodging.

I mean imagine a scene like that in slow motion then full speed.
PLUS
Scorpion is ONE he won't have hold back on... they can go crazy with each others powers.
BASH through trains... use cars like baseball bats.
I mean THIS one right now has the COOLEST potential.
Even better than SCORPION since he's more like an animal than a thinker.

With Scorpion its... Arachnid VS Arachnid...
let the best predator win.

AWWW DUDE THT'll be SWEEEEEEEETTT !!!

P.S. That picture ROCKS !!!

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

It's all about gargan, Gargan is as far from reality that you could get.

plus they could also steal and modify Otto octavius' tentacle technology to develop his tail, so the science isn't even far fetched.

And you're right, we do need some autopilot spidey sense scenes, maybe we can see parker has his eyes closed in his suit or something, and he's just going completley crazy bouncing around and stuff. Almost too fast for the human eye, but not quite fast enough to keep gargan confused.


And forget spidey holding out, let's talk about gargan not holding out. imagine the first time spdiey cracks a funny against gargan and just watching him go crazy. Spidey is web slinging away thinking he's one, gargan leaps above him on his web line, cuts it and cathes spidey, and swings him into straight through a billboard into JJJ's office into the bugle. then spidey spits a line

'er.. Did anyone order for a slightly concussed superhero, with extra bruises?'

before being yanked out of the bugle, and dropped right into a parked car down below.

spidey needs to feel the pain, he dishes out tenfold, and everyone knows it.

Gargan is Painman.....






c'mon peeps, this is the national progression after the goblins are done. Gargan for 4


woooooo....

 

[Bapman]

AWWW man... this would be the PERFECT enemy for him to start wisecracking.
It won't even BE silly 'cause well... here the snappy liner would ACTUALLY be a weapon.

I'd love to see some hardcore SPIDEY action this time around... catching SPIDEY in midswing n odging n fighting while still in swing.
Let go of the web... flip n pull on Gargan's tail.
as they fall punches n kicks fly... Petes wraps him in web with one hand n shoots towards a building with another.
Gargan falls... n in mid fall rip open the webs n flips n lands perfectly on the street.
then runs... slowly jumps over small building onto big big ones.
then slams into spidey in midair

Follwed by your scene.

 

[Ceb-Man]

I don't remember actually saying that they'd need to be tweaked, but they would. Hell, Ock & GG were tweaked.

So you must have really hated "Batman & Robin". i've always thought (since the Bruce Timm reimagining, anyway) that Freeze was the most sympathetic of Batman's villains. The Joker could wear makeup. Two-Face could get a skin graft. Ivy can control the toxins in her body which means she could just choose not to use them. But if I had to wear a refrigerator everywhere I went-because I tried to keep my wife alive-hell, yeah I'd wanna freeze everything!

Sorry Chris, I just assumed that was what you were talking about . Some of the villians characater wise were pretty lame and would need some serious character development.

The Ceb-Man!

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

AWWW man... this would be the PERFECT enemy for him to start wisecracking.
It won't even BE silly 'cause well... here the snappy liner would ACTUALLY be a weapon.

I'd love to see some hardcore SPIDEY action this time around... catching SPIDEY in midswing n odging n fighting while still in swing.
Let go of the web... flip n pull on Gargan's tail.
as they fall punches n kicks fly... Petes wraps him in web with one hand n shoots towards a building with another.
Gargan falls... n in mid fall rip open the webs n flips n lands perfectly on the street.
then runs... slowly jumps over small building onto big big ones.
then slams into spidey in midair

Follwed by your scene.

You see if they give spidey a reason for doing it, than it will just serve as a purpose rather than it coming off being cheesy one liners, than it can enhance the action scenes.

This is because Spiderman can't beat Scorpion, but peter parker can seriously attack gargan verbally and that's what we need to see.

spiderman doesn't win all his fights, sometimes he needs help from plain old peter parker.

now if this isn't character building stuff i don't know what is...

don't even get me started on JJJ's envolvement.

i've been dreaming of gargan in a sequel since i found out ock was going to be the next villain (i wasn't too pleased, but the way things panned out, makes it even more feasible now)





The only problem is that most of the fans don't want gargan and i don't see why. They would rather have venom. I consider venom and scorpion to essentially in theory be the same character. The only thing is that for some reason Venom has transcended into saint hood, and Gargan has been down rated, even though they've both pretty much had similar (pretty much no) impacts on spidey's life.

This is gargan's last and possibly only chance for history to record him at being the great villain he was supposed to be.


Not many villains can say that they have beaten spidey in their first confrontation

 

[Chris Wallace]

The first, the best, the most obvious choice: ELECTRO!

Runner's-up:

*Scorpion
*Shocker should show up somewhere, what a neat cameo that would be;

*Best-case scenario: THE ENTIRE S6! And that means everybody, INCLUDING Ock and INCLUDING Vulture, but not Venom because Venom belongs nowhere near the Six. And I want to hear no whining from Sony about how they cant afford that, because after the last two movies they should just about be owning the world.

You mean you didn't like the Howard Mackie S6?

 

[Chris Wallace]

Sorry Chris, I just assumed that was what you were talking about . Some of the villians characater wise were pretty lame and would need some serious character development.

The Ceb-Man!

Don't apologize; I re-read my previous posts & it seems I did make that statement after all. Which makes it no more or less true. But again, Ock & GG needed tweaking, too. And whether you liked Dafoe's Goblin suit or not, that purple tunic & elf shoes were not gonna fly.

 

[Bapman]

You see if they give spidey a reason for doing it, than it will just serve as a purpose rather than it coming off being cheesy one liners, than it can enhance the action scenes.

This is because Spiderman can't beat Scorpion, but peter parker can seriously attack gargan verbally and that's what we need to see.

spiderman doesn't win all his fights, sometimes he needs help from plain old peter parker.

now if this isn't character building stuff i don't know what is...

I totally agree...
During the movie as much I've complained.. there REALLY wasn't much FEASABLE way to show his wisecracking without sounding campy like RUSH HOUR or too moody like BLADE.

You are right... I would REALLY... n I mean REALLY like to see a all out no holds barred fight between SPIDEY n someone.
GOBLIN had the potential... but the budget didn't.

I'd love to see SPIDEY getting thrashed during the first fight n somehow managing to escape... n slowly show him reaching his physical peakness 'cause of GARGAN.

don't even get me started on JJJ's envolvement.

i've been dreaming of gargan in a sequel since i found out ock was going to be the next villain (i wasn't too pleased, but the way things panned out, makes it even more feasible now)

I don't whether JJJ's involvement would realistic n well... feasable...
I'll keep n open mind about tht...
If they can get away with the OAGANICS... well... let's just say I have faith in them.

Oh well... I LOVED Ock... it was nice how the story progressed... n honestly... Ock IS the 2nd important villain.

The only problem is that most of the fans don't want gargan and i don't see why. They would rather have venom. I consider venom and scorpion to essentially in theory be the same character. The only thing is that for some reason Venom has transcended into saint hood, and Gargan has been down rated, even though they've both pretty much had similar (pretty much no) impacts on spidey's life.

This is gargan's last and possibly only chance for history to record him at being the great villain he was supposed to be.

Not many villains can say that they have beaten spidey in their first confrontation

Dude... I'll be honest...
I didn't want GARGAN either... SCORPION... whether a private ditective or not... is n was a loser in the comicbook like TOAD.
N MOST FANS who want VENOM in the movie want him 'cause he's big bada$$... knows SPIDEY'sa secret... looks cool... n ofcourse... the symbiote.
I'll be honest...
VENOM IS my FAV Spidey villain... I'd love to see him too BUT not NOW !!!
Brining him in withing 1 movie ruins the magic n coolness of that is VENOM.
They screwed that up in the ULT SPIDEY
BUT
Look at the Spidey TAS n COMIC... they really took building up his character n his coming.
If they don't do that in the movie... all the people with gr8 ideas r gonna then start b|tching.
I personally don't think VENOM n SCORPION are similar... VENNY cracks jokes on SPIDEY... literally scares him n ofcoure... the damn symbiote is sooo cool.
BUT
I swear if they can change GARGAN into a ANIMATRIX "A DETECTIVE STORY" style Private Eye... with a HYMPHRY BOGURT lookalike...
He's gonna top GG n OCK.

He REALLY does have potential.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

I totally agree...
During the movie as much I've complained.. there REALLY wasn't much FEASABLE way to show his wisecracking without sounding campy like RUSH HOUR or too moody like BLADE.

You are right... I would REALLY... n I mean REALLY like to see a all out no holds barred fight between SPIDEY n someone.
GOBLIN had the potential... but the budget didn't.

I'd love to see SPIDEY getting thrashed during the first fight n somehow managing to escape... n slowly show him reaching his physical peakness 'cause of GARGAN.

Well i think it could have been done fine in previous films. Spidey doesn't have to be cocky and say cocky things. He just needs to say what's on his mind. The dude is stressed and getting no sleep, got work and responsibilities up to his eyeballs. The last thing he needs are some villains coming in and pissing him off. It's just laying down the law that happens to come off as funny to us, but not funny to anyone else in the film. Just an absolute wiseass. In fact in the scorpion treatment, you want spidey to be so much of a cocky wiseass in the beginning, that you almost feel good when Gargan is tearing away at him shouting 'SHUT UP SHUT UP WILL YOU JUST SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!' until you see him in a pretty bad way. And in that moment, Parker will smile and realise his greatest weapon against gargan for their next encounter....

Dude... I'll be honest...
I didn't want GARGAN either... SCORPION... whether a private ditective or not... is n was a loser in the comicbook like TOAD.
N MOST FANS who want VENOM in the movie want him 'cause he's big bada$$... knows SPIDEY'sa secret... looks cool... n ofcourse... the symbiote.
I'll be honest...
VENOM IS my FAV Spidey villain... I'd love to see him too BUT not NOW !!!
Brining him in withing 1 movie ruins the magic n coolness of that is VENOM.
They screwed that up in the ULT SPIDEY
BUT
Look at the Spidey TAS n COMIC... they really took building up his character n his coming.
If they don't do that in the movie... all the people with gr8 ideas r gonna then start b|tching.
I personally don't think VENOM n SCORPION are similar... VENNY cracks jokes on SPIDEY... literally scares him n ofcoure... the damn symbiote is sooo cool.
BUT
I swear if they can change GARGAN into a ANIMATRIX "A DETECTIVE STORY" style Private Eye... with a HYMPHRY BOGURT lookalike...
He's gonna top GG n OCK.

He REALLY does have potential.

I used to be a venom fan as well, it's easy to become one i think. You get taken in by the similar powers, the 1st person plural speech ('we' are venom etc..) the dual voices, the love/hate relationship, the cool suit, and the rest.

But then it hit me that venom has the WOW factor, but in the longevity of things, he's pretty tame, and has yet to cause peter any major upset in his life. AFTER ALL THIS TIME!!!!! she should have done something, killed someone at least (and it doesn't help in ultimate timeline how he manages to fight venom and carnage no probs with no bloody costume either, it just reiterates my point to some extent)


And i think Venom and Scorpion are similar in core, the same type of character was trying to be created. kinda like how ryu and ken were similar right at the beginning of the street fighter ethos, but over time they've slowly become their own characters, but the initial similarities remain.


I've always thought that Gargan has had the potential to top pretty much most bad guys. you can truelly make him a character that everyone truelly hates, even his fans (if you can do that, then you are on to liquid gold). Give him no redeeming features, or any reason to empathise with him, and trust me, we'll be on to a winner. Written carefully, i don't even think Venom could top it. Unless brock's motivation to hate parker is a lot better, but that's just me.

please everyone, just let scorpion into your hearts, and minds.

In battle, he should be able to take out all of spidey's other big timers, except for maybe the slightly more intelligent villains (norman osborn, octavius), heck he should even be able to tame a savage lizard

he's fast, intelligent, hateful, lusting in revenge, emotionally weak and slightly unstable. he has no redeeming factors and just wants to be hated by all.

in the end, he is the anomaly, he is the one. Gargan is the one.

 

[TwistedMentat]

Gargan sucks. Give me Mysterio or give me death.

 

[American_Hobo]

Gargan sucks. Give me Mysterio or give me death.

Scorpion never suck

 

[DACrowe]

Here is my series.

SM1: GG and Young Love.

SM2: Doc Ock and frutation of love.

SM3: Lizard and GG2 and relationship problems and marriage (this would be the longest one of over 2 1/2 hours and the only one to run that long the Good The Bad The Ugly if you will of the RAimi films).

TWist cast and director:

Spider-Man: A New Beginning: Electro and the black suit

Spider-Man: Enter Venom: Venom and protecting MJ and their relationship again.

Spider-Man: Maximum Carnage: Carange and Venom as a team up (both die) in a final slug match for the century and an ultimate dark edition but hey it is the last anyways.

 

[Chris Wallace]

You're not following instructions. We know not of this "Maximum Carnage" or "lizard" you refer to.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

It's as if the first post explaining the rules to this thread never existed....

 

[Chris Wallace]

Notice that, did you?