Let's talk Terminator 3...

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

As just a mindless action flick on it's own, Terminator 3 is fine.

As part of the Terminator series, it's absolutley horrible.

As many have said, it was absolutley unneccesary. The story was ended in Terminator 2, and did not need to be continued.

I have seen people compare X-Men: The Last Stand to Terminator 3.

Well, at least X-Men: The Last Stand was a pretty neccesary sequel, due to unfinished story arcs left over from X2 and even X-Men as well. X-Men: The Last Stand was needed to bring those continuous story arcs to a close, even if they weren't handled the way we all would have liked.

Terminator 2 closed those story arcs. Terminator 3 opened them just for the sake of making another film with the "Terminator" brand attatched to it, and didn't offer anything to the story. In that regards, it's a horrible film.

With no attatchment to the Terminator series, it's a fine movie. But as a part of a larger story, it's absolutley horrible. I do not consider it part of the same series. To me, Terminator and Terminator 2 are all part of the same universe. Terminator 3 is glorified fan-fic as far as I'm concerned, with no official connection to the actual Terminator storyline.

 

[roach]

A few weeks before this movie came out they showed it on base for free. I made the mistake of watching the first two movies before going to see T3. T3 didnt fit into trilogy. The theme of the first two movies is that "There is no Fate but what you make." But here comes T3 with "No matter what we are screwed"

 

[livrule]

A few weeks before this movie came out they showed it on base for free. I made the mistake of watching the first two movies before going to see T3. T3 didnt fit into trilogy. The theme of the first two movies is that "There is no Fate but what you make." But here comes T3 with "No matter what we are screwed"

The whole "No fate" angle was a mistake on Sarah and Kyles part ..... They are all stuck in a time loop from which there is no escape ....

As for T3 .... its an enjoyable movie .... not a classic but solid and well made.

The score is awful and it features far too many comedy moments but in general it works.

 

[Warhammer]

Endless looped timeline is stupid.
Because of it, protecting Sarah and John Connor were pointless.
Sometimes, I wish James Cameron would've made T2's alternate ending the official ending (with John Connor becoming a politician, with a family/old Sarah Connor sitting in the park).

 

[KenK]

Endless looped timeline is stupid.
Because of it, protecting Sarah and John Connor were pointless.
Sometimes, I wish James Cameron would've made T2's alternate ending the official ending (with John Connor becoming a politician, with a family/old Sarah Connor sitting in the park).

BUT JUDGMENT DAY HAS TO HAPPEN FOR JOHN CONNOR TO BE BORN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! People who love T2 (and I love it just as much as anyone) refuse to acknowledge this, and it's one of the reasons I appreciate T3, because it did need to be address. John Connor's very existence relies on this event happening. Yeah, it's a loopy time paradox to begin with, but once the first film establishes it, you've got to stick with it, and for all the great stuff
T2 did, they chose to end the film without addressing the ramifications of, in the context of that one film's story, "succeeding" in destroying everything the led to Judgment Day. At least T3 brought things back full circle with the end of the first film.

 

[Sam Fisher]

No, it's an average flick with no soul and of course talk to da hand/ Unworthy of the terminator name.

Your opinion, of course.

 

[livrule]

BUT JUDGMENT DAY HAS TO HAPPEN FOR JOHN CONNOR TO BE BORN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! People who love T2 (and I love it just as much as anyone) refuse to acknowledge this, and it's one of the reasons I appreciate T3, because it did need to be address. John Connor's very existence relies on this event happening. Yeah, it's a loopy time paradox to begin with, but once the first film establishes it, you've got to stick with it, and for all the great stuff
T2 did, they chose to end the film without addressing the ramifications of, in the context of that one film's story, "succeeding" in destroying everything the led to Judgment Day. At least T3 brought things back full circle with the end of the first film.

Thank you!!

Finally someone gets it!

 

[Warhammer]

BUT JUDGMENT DAY HAS TO HAPPEN FOR JOHN CONNOR TO BE BORN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! People who love T2 (and I love it just as much as anyone) refuse to acknowledge this, and it's one of the reasons I appreciate T3, because it did need to be address. John Connor's very existence relies on this event happening. Yeah, it's a loopy time paradox to begin with, but once the first film establishes it, you've got to stick with it, and for all the great stuff
T2 did, they chose to end the film without addressing the ramifications of, in the context of that one film's story, "succeeding" in destroying everything the led to Judgment Day. At least T3 brought things back full circle with the end of the first film.

You're right.
I understand.

I still don't like the idea of a looped timeline, but apparently, Kyle Reese being John Connor's father automatically makes the timelines looped. Now I can take this a step farther (a possible flaw in the Terminator franchise, and a fundamental flaw in most time travel films). If Kyle Reese is John Connor's father, then technically speaking, who was John Connor's father when he first sent Kyle Reese to the future? Obviously, in the very first timeline when Connor sent Reese, Reese couldn't have possibly been Connor's father, which then alludes to another point that there HAD to have been multiple timelines, because if the timeline was truly looped, then Reese couldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[black_dust]

Back the future can answer your questions...

Treat the alt 1985 as the end of T2 and them stoping judgement day, thats what happens in the end of t2 with "No fate..."

Then T3 comes along with "Its set in stone, sorry you cant stop it"

 

[Warhammer]

*head explodes*



...so I guess the looped timeline theory is false.
Cool find, black_dust.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I'm glad Terminator films didn't lean too much on the theory of time travel and how it works.

Like BD said, T3 was stupid because it said you cant stop it.

But this means they're going to have to make another trilogy, that takes place in the future.

 

[OptimusCannabis]

Terminator 3 is an entertaining movie but it is far less than the other two Terminator films.

For one, I don't see how a production line cyborg can age. One would think the Terminator would look more like he did in the first film if they are
production line machines. Secondly, they really should have gotten Edward Furlong to reprise his role or forgotten it all-together. I really hate when
sequels do that, as if we won't notice. Third, a female Terminator??? WTF is that all about??? I guess Cameron and co. sold out to the old addage that 'sex sells.' Perhaps worst of all was the 'Sarah Connor dead' angle.

What I would have done different
1. Shot it about 7 years earlier
2. Done it with Edward Furlong or not at all
3. NOT used a female Terminator. Bringing Robert Patrick back was a
better option OR my idea of having two Arnold's go at it.
4. Brought back Sarah Connor. Arnold might be the star and it might be all
about John Connor but damn... Sarah Connor was the glue that held it
all together.

I suppose the movie had to happen to bring it all full circle but that movie should have been done differently

 

[black_dust]

Secondly, they really should have gotten Edward Furlong to reprise his role or forgotten it all-together. I really hate when
sequels do that, as if we won't notice. Third, a female Terminator??? WTF is that all about??? I guess Cameron and co. sold out to the old addage that 'sex sells.' Perhaps worst of all was the 'Sarah Connor dead' angle.

Edward was a pretty big drug user when they thought up the idea of 3 so thats a no no.

Cameron had nothing to do with 3 at all so it wasnt his idea for a female terminator so dont go blamming him.

No cameron = No Linda. and it would have been no Arnie if James hadnt have said "Ask for as much money as you can then do it" to him.

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

T3 is a huge, regurgitated piece of crap. And it has a completely tacked on place in the trilogy; unnecessary and unwanted. The Terminatrix isn't scary or intimidating at all, unlike the previous terminators, and she is nothing but someone you would want to see naked.

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Your opinion, of course.

Does this really need to be stated? I think we are all aware of the concept of opinion...or at least most of us are.

 

[Warhammer]

Back the future can answer your questions...

Treat the alt 1985 as the end of T2 and them stoping judgement day, thats what happens in the end of t2 with "No fate..."

Then T3 comes along with "Its set in stone, sorry you cant stop it"

I was watching Back To The Future today, and finally noticed the "alternate 1985."

 

[black_dust]

I was watching Back To The Future today, and finally noticed the "alternate 1985."

haha finally? The Doc has a nice lesson on it with a black board how can you miss it

 

[Warhammer]

I never really paid attention to the last minutes after Marty woke up.

 

[livrule]

*head explodes*



...so I guess the looped timeline theory is false.
Cool find, black_dust.

Nope ....

The characters in the Terminator films ARE stuck in an endless loop.

If John or Sarah had stopped Judgment day then John would have ceased to exist .... remember, his father comes from the future ... a future that is ruled by Skynet ... Skynet created time travel.

 

[Kent]

BUT JUDGMENT DAY HAS TO HAPPEN FOR JOHN CONNOR TO BE BORN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! People who love T2 (and I love it just as much as anyone) refuse to acknowledge this, and it's one of the reasons I appreciate T3, because it did need to be address. John Connor's very existence relies on this event happening. Yeah, it's a loopy time paradox to begin with, but once the first film establishes it, you've got to stick with it, and for all the great stuff
T2 did, they chose to end the film without addressing the ramifications of, in the context of that one film's story, "succeeding" in destroying everything the led to Judgment Day. At least T3 brought things back full circle with the end of the first film.

T3 makes just as little sense in this regard. Remember, the Kyle that impregnated Sarah came from a time line where the war started in the late 90's. But if Kyle Reese travels back in the T3 time line he'd be from a time line where the war started later. Not the same Kyle Reese.

 

[ToddIsDead]

I really dislike this movie. It's just a below-average, soul-less action flick.

 

[Warhammer]

Searching back on the Terminator timeline thread that I made nearly one year ago, as well as searching through August 2006 drafts of Wikipedia's T2 page, I found a plot holes section (that I remembering linking) that may have a possible explanation for the looped/alternate/tangent timeline theory.

It is very hard to reconcile the apparent rules of time travel in T2 with those of The Terminator. A central element of the original film was that even after what seemed to be an incredibly disruptive event to the "original" timeline (the sudden appearance in 1984 of a cyborg and a human warrior from the future) the chain of events leads to Sarah in the Mexican desert seven months later having a polaroid photograph taken of her that is identical to the one Reese possesses in the future of the "original" timeline. This suggests that there is only one history and that the terminator and Reese were always a part of it in 1984, despite the fact that Reese expilicity stated in the first film that he came from "one possible future." Therefore, it appears that we have a single timeline in which time travel creates loops, not diverging or alterable timelines. T2 disregards this core aspect of the original film and instead uses a model in which multiple, branching histories exist following a time travel event (or the original history is wiped out completely, inviting the problematic question of what happened to the people in it, and particularly why John Connor and co. would even have had a chance to send anyone to intercept the terminator after it had been sent back rather than being wiped out immediately). This makes it very hard to come up with a consistent set of rules for a single narrative universe that encompasses both stories.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T3 makes just as little sense in this regard. Remember, the Kyle that impregnated Sarah came from a time line where the war started in the late 90's. But if Kyle Reese travels back in the T3 time line he'd be from a time line where the war started later. Not the same Kyle Reese.

Good point.

 

[Warhammer]

Here is a quote from my old thread (I am actually diggin' this idea):

From my understanding, the Terminator saga works under a single branch timeline theory....

So in the first timeline; some nobody is John Connor's father and John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah from The Terminator. In the first timeline, there is no relation between John Connor and Kyle Reese.

In the second timeline however; (The events of Terminator 1) things are changed. Sarah meets Kyle Reese and is now aware of the impending war and now it is Kyle who fathers John...

The third timeline branches off once again (THe events of T2) where to make a long story short, they avoid Judgment Day or atleast create an unknown future, where the future war may or may not happen.

Of coure, those ****ing idiots in T3 screwed up everything to make a few extra bucks...

The "second timeline" is now considered the timeline leading to T3.

 

[Warhammer]

I guess this thread gave people headaches...

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yes, the war had to happen, and the story in T3 could have worked. It just didn't cause there was no soul behind the work. Had someone put their soul in T3, like Cameron did the first two, T3 would have been great. Instead, it was a cash in, soulless movie.

Not against a T3 being made, but that T3 just plain sucked!