Logan LOGAN - Early Reactions and Reviews Thread

[TheVileOne]

Oh trust me. It has nothing to do with being edgy. As soon as a cbm gets an R-rating I'm there for the thrill of what those filmmakers get to actually do outside of the obvious age restricted markers.

To me it just depends on what type of story is being told. If it's something akin to Logan or Deadpool, then it's something good to play around with. If it's an X-Men version of the Krakoa/Giant Size X-Men story, then no.

Something like Daredevil: Born Again? Yes. Uncanny X-Force? Yes. Something in the style of Whedon's Astonishing X-Men? No.

 

[Ivan Drago]

I'm not sure why that in and of itself is worthy of praise. Not all comic book stories are worthy of an R-rating.

Also they aren't the only one. The Weinstein Company released Sin City: A Dame to Kill for. That was in 2014. Lionsgate released Dredd and the first Kick-Ass movie. Dredd was great, but it was not successful either. And Lionsgate did not do a great job with Dredd.

I meant out of the big three. Disney, WB, and FOX.

 

[TheVileOne]

I meant out of the big three. Disney, WB, and FOX.

I'm not really giving Fox credit because they still released Fantastic Four. They still cut $10 million off the Deadpool budget right before filming. Fox is hardly a bastion for comic book movie quality. I will say with Rothman gone, they've managed to hire some talented teams who have not fouled up everything, but it was still seven years from the time Deadpool was announced to the film actually getting released. Just think about that sometime. Seven years.

 

[2kt09]

To me it just depends on what type of story is being told. If it's something akin to Logan or Deadpool, then it's something good to play around with. If it's an X-Men version of the Krakoa/Giant Size X-Men story, then no.

I can live with X-Men being PG-13, since they push the rating.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Not every CBM needs a R rating, but there are characters and storylines that benefit from that. You probably wouldn't do a flagship X-Men film with an R rating, but something like a Magneto spin-off would absolutely be enhanced with the kind of approach that Logan has been given.

I think it's good for the genre as a whole, and the fact that it's possible is something that I think Fox does deserve some credit for. Certainly doesn't hurt to have a third option rather than just the more of the same from the DC and Marvel cinematic universes.

 

[DACrowe]

You say all that but look at the Netflix shows, which are nothing at all like the movies. They are very dark, disturbing, bloody, graphic, psychological and and unnerving. It seems to me if you want the riskier more edgier content for the Marvel Universe, Netflix has a fix for that.

Let's also not forget just how laborious it was for Deadpool to actually happen the way it did. Deadpool was put on the backburner for years and it basically took Tom Rothman getting ousted and the concept reel getting leaked for it to finally happen.

The Netflix shows are great. Well, Daredevil and Jessica Jones are great, Luke Cage was only okay. But that is Marvel Television, which Kevin Feige has made clear he has no real interest or say in. It's quite a bit different from Marvel Studios' modus operandi.

With that said, while I love two of the three Netflix shows, I still am a bit old fashioned at heart, and love a great cinematic experience. And whereas the Netflix shows are more cinematic than a lot of television, Marvel Studios films have (with exceptions) drifted more and more to serialized, television storytelling. The risk of this for me has been nothing showing much individuality, and thus there are few I ever feel compelled to revisit.

Yes, it took getting rid of Rothman to get us Deadpool, Logan, and I'll even include Days of Future Past in that list. But he is gone, and on top of it all we are also enjoying Legion (if you want to bring up television) and hopefully X-Force soon enough.

With all this burgeoning variety, I would hate to see the mutants get slapped with beige just because they "belong" to Marvel. I never deny they are Marvel characters, but at the end of the day these are separate studios hiring different filmmakers. Give me more variety and unique visions, and I will be happy. Competition is healthy. This desire for hegemony and a monopoly does nothing for me, and I am glad to see Logan prove that there is more than one way to do these kind of movies.

 

[TWayneP]

With all this burgeoning variety, I would hate to see the mutants get slapped with beige just because they "belong" to Marvel. I never deny they are Marvel characters, but at the end of the day these are separate studios hiring different filmmakers. Give me more variety and unique visions, and I will be happy. Competition is healthy. This desire for hegemony and a monopoly does nothing for me, and I am glad to see Logan prove that there is more than one way to do these kind of movies.

Well said, exactly how I feel.

 

[jmc]

Not every CBM needs a R rating, but there are characters and storylines that benefit from that. You probably wouldn't do a flagship X-Men film with an R rating, but something like a Magneto spin-off would absolutely be enhanced with the kind of approach that Logan has been given.

I think it's good for the genre as a whole, and the fact that it's possible is something that I think Fox does deserve some credit for. Certainly doesn't hurt to have a third option rather than just the more of the same from the DC and Marvel cinematic universes.

What people who say you don't need to give Superhero movies a higher rating seem to forget is that violence, profanity, drugs, and sex can play a huge part in story telling. In the right hands it can hit you in an emotional way that no PG rated movie can because it's far more confronting and uncomfortable. A film like TDK is probably the limit to what you can do in terms of hitting audiences with a similar emotional gut punch whilst staying within the PG boundaries.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I thought most people agreed:

Sony and Disney should share Spidey.

Fox should give the Fantastic Four rights back to Marvel.

And Fox should keep X-men as a universe that exist separate of MCU.

 

[def28]

With the success of Deadpool alone Fox is not giving anything up, we still have yet to see them giving F4 back. But that doesn't mean that Marvel and Fox should leave things the way they are. The better they get along the more we get.

Deadpool has shout outs to Kevin Feige, they traded Ego for switching up NTW and their is no bad blood there. Feige always talks very highly of the X-Men series and he came from there. Merch and TV shows are now coming on strong which has been a major complaint for years. So the stronger that relationship gets the better things will be all around. And hopefully as things progress more and more as they have been, the possibility of Marvel or Fox allowing certain characters to play in the MCU can be a reality. Not saying that should happen now but be it 10 years or 30 years down the line when things are different, that option should be there. While a few don't want that, they don't represent the majority and there is no doubt that the X-Men franchise can benefit from that with audiences.

Fox does needed to work on their planning as they finally have an expanded universe and things get messy. But right now F4 is the only one in serious trouble.

 

[First Avenger]

I thought most people agreed:

Sony and Disney should share Spidey.

Fox should give the Fantastic Four rights back to Marvel.

And Fox should keep X-men as a universe that exist separate of MCU.

Pretty much this,although I hope Disney buys Spider-Man back as soon as possible.

 

[Stan Lee]

Give me a break with that excuse. Cyclops obviously should be leading the X-Men as a team and in battle . That should have done so in X2 and 3. There is more to the character then just being pushed to the side or murdered for Logan and Prof X to have screen time.

It should not have took two decades of X-Men films to realize he should be a focus and is an essential crucial leader.

It's not an excuse, it's the truth lol. Chris Claremont didn't have him leading the team in God Loves, Man Kills which X2 was partly based on. I can see what they were going for n that movie.

And he wasn't killed off for Logan and Prof X. It's because the actor was working on Superman Returns and Rothman wanted to rush X3 out so he had him killed.

It is not even the first time he uses that excuse for a criticism of the films. Its really simple. Cyclops is instantly associated with leader of the X-Men people aren't crazy for expecting that.

Actually, Xavier is. It was like that in all of the adaptations of the X-Men.

You know you're only helping my point, right?

Yes.

 

[GuestStar2004]

But I also don't think superhero stories should lean toward R-rated, edgy adult fare just for the sake of doing so.

My only issue with the whole R rating thing is that it starts to feel like a gimmick where people want everything R rated purely because its edgy.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

And Fox should keep X-men as a universe that exist separate of MCU.

Everyone doesn't agree on this

 

[Erzengel]

I do. For right now.

As much as DOFP and Deadpool have breathed life into the Fox brand, Apocalypse not withstanding, it's still an expansive character universe albeit not as many headliners as the MCU.

And I wouldn't support the inclusion of the X-Men in the MCU because they don't need them and as of the moment Fox for the most part can get it right more often times than not. And even after RDJ, Evans and Helmsworth step away, there is Larson, Cumberbatch, Bosemon, Stan, Holland and probably one more GOTG movie. If they only got FF then that would be more than enough for MCU Phase 4. I feel that X-Men would be too much to add.

Deadpool and Logan and even an X-Force movie can/should be Rated R movies.

However, X-Men movies, is the equivalent of the Avengers or JL movies and should be a PG-13 affair just for general mass appeal.

 

[X-Maniac]

I thought most people agreed:

Sony and Disney should share Spidey.

Fox should give the Fantastic Four rights back to Marvel.

And Fox should keep X-men as a universe that exist separate of MCU.

The problem is that Fox's X-Men still have MAJOR faults. Lack of team dynamics, classic characters undeveloped, poor wirework, bad CGI, bad costumes, bad make-up. None of that bodes well for something like a proper Dark Phoenix Saga.

Marvel/Disney has proven it can handle team dynamics (Avengers, CA: Civil War) and space (GoTG) as well as most of the other things I mentioned.

When we hear that Fox is doing the Dark Phoenix Saga, we feel nervous and worried. We know Storm will be shafted, Mystique will dominate in a story where she doesn't even belong, that they'll find a way to put Magneto in there (even though he doesn't belong either)... etc, etc. They'll probably also want to make it R-rated and add f-bombs, because execs now think that's the key to everything (they have no idea Deadpool was comic-accurate because they don't have any awareness of the comics, they think everyone loved it because of violence and bad language).

If we heard that Marvel/Disney was doing the Dark Phoenix Saga, there would be no such worries. They know the source material, and they seem more technically capable with the fantastical elements.

 

[Stan Lee]

Days of Future Past was nominated for best special effects and showcase great teamwork in the future scenes against the sentinels.

Just because Apocalypse had some very bad green screen in the third act and didn't have a team until the very end doesn't erase that.

EDIT: We don't know for sure if the film is about Dark Phoenix. Singer hinted that the focus would be on the Proteus story.

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's not an excuse, it's the truth lol. Chris Claremont didn't have him leading the team in God Loves, Man Kills which X2 was partly based on. I can see what they were going for n that movie.

And he wasn't killed off for Logan and Prof X. It's because the actor was working on Superman Returns and Rothman wanted to rush X3 out so he had him killed.



Actually, Xavier is. It was like that in all of the adaptations of the X-Men.



Yes.

for all the complaints over not being faithful to comics few want to accept X2 was corss between God loves man kills and return to weapon x from ultimate X-men.Stryker was cross between comic version and john wrath from ultimate version.with outfit stryker run like weapon in in ultimate version.
Cyclops like xavier was taken captive in god loves man kills so it was true to story that singer back in 2000 said was favorate X-men story he read.

with last stand because james marsden took the superman role it was fight to get cyclops into film at all because of rothman.Thankfully rothman is sony's problem now.

Xavier is often portrayed as leader of X-Men.

The first class trilogy new timeline notwithstanding has always been called
by them as the origin trilogy.Bryan Singer himself called apocalypse origin of X-men.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Days of Future Past was nominated for best special effects and showcase great teamwork in the future scenes against the sentinels.

Just because Apocalypse had some very bad green screen in the third act and didn't have a team until the very end doesn't erase that.

EDIT: We don't know for sure if the film is about Dark Phoenix. Singer hinted that the focus would be on the Proteus story.

they are proving point i made.Logan is getting great reviews and yet this thread is becoming a let's trash fox,Singer,and X-Men films.

as for Supernova Singer brought up closer to apocalypse release going into
outer space.the comment about proteus was interview during filming of
apocalypse.Plus Kinberg closer to apocalypse really seemed like he wanted to do redo of dark phoenix.My belief based on everything supernova is eather about dark phoenix or taking X-Men into outer space.if it is dark phoenix then stopping apocalypse could be the equilvent of saving universe
in films.

 

[eplo]

So..the logan reaction thread has turned into fox vs marvel...why does this not surprise me...

 

[X-Maniac]

Days of Future Past was nominated for best special effects and showcase great teamwork in the future scenes against the sentinels.

Just because Apocalypse had some very bad green screen in the third act and didn't have a team until the very end doesn't erase that.

DoFP still had some questionable moments. Storm's blizzard at the end was a bit weedy (the Sentinels were still able to fly into it, AGAINST the direction of the wind) and the lightning she used to explode the jet was also weedy and didn't look enough to light up a lightbulb, never mind blow up a jet. It's like the special FX budget ran out.

I feel like if Disney had done a final 'polish' on that movie, it would have been even better. There were moments where it was too flat and restrained.

EDIT: We don't know for sure if the film is about Dark Phoenix. Singer hinted that the focus would be on the Proteus story.

Supernova hardly sounds like a Proteus story.

EDIT: I think that while Fox does okay with small-scale intimate stuff (Deadpool, Logan), it cannot handle an epic superhero movie with a big team who ALL need character development.

The relevance of this to Logan is that Logan is being seen by reviewers as The End to Fox's X-Men franchise. In a Fox 1990s-set X-Men prequel we will all know that

Spoiler

it's Xavier who ends up destroying his own X-Men

and that's why i wondered if a Marvel reboot might be better.

 

[Stan Lee]

The Proteus story did explore Jean's powers and had her take him on.

 

[Weather Witch]

DoFP still had some questionable moments. Storm's blizzard at the end was a bit weedy (the Sentinels were still able to fly into it, AGAINST the direction of the wind) and the lightning she used to explode the jet was also weedy and didn't look enough to light up a lightbulb, never mind blow up a jet. It's like the special FX budget ran out.

I'm sorry, but that's really just grasping at straws.

I feel like if Disney had done a final 'polish' on that movie, it would have been even better. There were moments where it was too flat and restrained.

They also would've polished a lot of good things out of the movie. Heck the Disney version of DOFP would not have been half the movie we actually got.

Supernova hardly sounds like a Proteus story.

Maybe that's why Fox hasn't even confirmed that 'Supernova' as a working title is actually a thing.

The relevance of this to Logan is that Logan is being seen by reviewers as The End to Fox's X-Men franchise. In a Fox 1990s-set X-Men prequel we will all know that

Spoiler

it's Xavier who ends up destroying his own X-Men

and that's why i wondered if a Marvel reboot might be better.

Which, if that's true, is an interesting and balsy move that Disney never would pull off. Just like the rest of this entire movie that we're supposed to be discussing in this thread. Or Deadpool or most of the recent Fox movies other than Apocalypse. Now we'll see what happens in the next X-Men movie when that time comes, but for now Logan is still at 97% on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The Netflix shows are great. Well, Daredevil and Jessica Jones are great, Luke Cage was only okay. But that is Marvel Television, which Kevin Feige has made clear he has no real interest or say in. It's quite a bit different from Marvel Studios' modus operandi.

With that said, while I love two of the three Netflix shows, I still am a bit old fashioned at heart, and love a great cinematic experience. And whereas the Netflix shows are more cinematic than a lot of television, Marvel Studios films have (with exceptions) drifted more and more to serialized, television storytelling. The risk of this for me has been nothing showing much individuality, and thus there are few I ever feel compelled to revisit.

Yes, it took getting rid of Rothman to get us Deadpool, Logan, and I'll even include Days of Future Past in that list. But he is gone, and on top of it all we are also enjoying Legion (if you want to bring up television) and hopefully X-Force soon enough.

With all this burgeoning variety, I would hate to see the mutants get slapped with beige just because they "belong" to Marvel. I never deny they are Marvel characters, but at the end of the day these are separate studios hiring different filmmakers. Give me more variety and unique visions, and I will be happy. Competition is healthy. This desire for hegemony and a monopoly does nothing for me, and I am glad to see Logan prove that there is more than one way to do these kind of movies.

Spot on again DA Crowe. I love the MCU but it's all starting to feel a bit same to me. I love that Fox can give us something like Logan.

The problem is that Fox's X-Men still have MAJOR faults. Lack of team dynamics, classic characters undeveloped, poor wirework, bad CGI, bad costumes, bad make-up. None of that bodes well for something like a proper Dark Phoenix Saga.

Marvel/Disney has proven it can handle team dynamics (Avengers, CA: Civil War) and space (GoTG) as well as most of the other things I mentioned.

When we hear that Fox is doing the Dark Phoenix Saga, we feel nervous and worried. We know Storm will be shafted, Mystique will dominate in a story where she doesn't even belong, that they'll find a way to put Magneto in there (even though he doesn't belong either)... etc, etc. They'll probably also want to make it R-rated and add f-bombs, because execs now think that's the key to everything (they have no idea Deadpool was comic-accurate because they don't have any awareness of the comics, they think everyone loved it because of violence and bad language).

If we heard that Marvel/Disney was doing the Dark Phoenix Saga, there would be no such worries. They know the source material, and they seem more technically capable with the fantastical elements.

There would be plenty of worries with Marvel doing the DPS though. They can't seem to do a decent villain outside of Loki, and they never go dark enough with their movies or villains. I am terrified for Thanos as I don't want them to screw him up. But already there are rumours death won't Be involved. Probably because it scares kids. MCU movies also have bad CGI and wire work in them and they never have any stakes, you never fear the good guys won't triumph.

Personally I would much rather see a Fox Dark Phoenix Saga than an MCU one these days.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I'm sorry, but that's really just grasping at straws.

They also would've polished a lot of good things out of the movie. Heck the Disney version of DOFP would not have been half the movie we actually got.

Maybe that's why Fox hasn't even confirmed that 'Supernova' as a working title is actually a thing.
Which is an interesting and balsy move that Disney never would pull off. Just like the rest of this entire movie that we're supposed to be discussing in this thread. Or Deadpool or most of the recent Fox movies other than Apocalypse.

i would say the battles we got in film version of DOFP were more exciting than ones in comic.fox did terrable when they under rothman did half ass version of dark phoenix in last stand but did great when they adapted dark phoenix.

Kevin feige himself has said marvel studios will never go dark.that isn't even
a bash.that is quoting him.just as he himself has flat out said X-men coming to MCU like spider-man isn't happening.Days of future past is dark story.

audences and critics responded well to days of future past.and it now sounds like at least criticly Logan has topped DOFP.