Luke Cage Luke Cage General Discussion Thread - Part 2

I kind of agree. I feel like the show wanted to be more critical of police in Luke Cage, but then you had things like Luke Cage is an ex-cop, a background he never had in the comics. You had a black police officer beating up a black teen witness and doing the police brutality angle.

It seems whenever Luke confronted the cops, instead of two white officers, he confronted a white one and a black one. A black one chased him down and let him go because they knew each other from Pop's barbershop.

It sent me mixed messages IMO.

The white officer who was angry when Diamondback framed Luke for killing that cop was a white guy, but not necessarily racist. At the end you see him hearing Luke's monologue in the police station and he's clearly moved by Luke's words.

And I mean most of the major police characters throughout seasons 1 and 2 are ethnic.

I recall in season 1 Mariah Dillard basically tried to say "Oh that officer beat up that black teen. OK, let's give the police special ordinance so they can gun down a super-powered black man!"

...Excuse me? How did we reach that conclusion? But yeah, some the political stuff they tried to work into Season 1 of Luke Cage didn't work IMO.

You might notice that Season 2 had a lot less of that. Other than Luke's lines about "I'm a black man who's bulletproof!"

And maybe it makes me a bad person, and nothing against Cloak and Dagger, but when I heard Tyrone Johnson on the show say, "I'm a black teen. Half of America wants me dead" or some such, I couldn't do anything but roll my eyes. Like seriously kid, get a grip.

eh I'm not on all that. I agree with a lot of the politics in Luke Cage. They're just handled in very corny, heavy handed, and clunky ways. Same thing with Black Lightning and Jessica Jones (obviously with sex and feminism). Those seem like they put politics/message first before making a good show (less so with Jessica Jones)

If I had to guess and no one told me, I'd think that Luke Cage and Black Lightning were made by white people trying to prove how diverse and woke they are with the way they handle race stuff

I do think that "get a grip" thing you said is way outta pocket.
 
Well the showrunner for Luke Cage is Cheo Hodari Coker, who is black. But I'm sure there are white writers and co-producers working throughout all those shows.

Lol, sorry if I'm outta pocket, but that's just how I feel. A little on the melodramatic side.
 
I know Cage's showrunner is black and the JJ's show runner is a women and BL has a black showrunner as well if I recall. I'm just saying the way they handle it makes it come off like "white people trying to prove they're woke"
And in the case of Luke Cage, Coulter isn't a good enough actor to pull off sending that message out. Like the Crispus Attucks scene in season 1. Terrible

And that's fine if that's the way you feel, but most of the time I wouldn't go out a talk about or tell a woman, LGBT person, etc to "get a grip" fictional or not because I've never experienced what they go through. It's disrespectful. I have no interest in Cloak and Dagger but what the character said is a sentiment held by a lot of people and resonates with them. They put it in the show for a reason. It sounds heavy handed and I'd handle it with more finesse, but I wouldn't say "get a grip" Again it's disrespectful as hell

EDIT: Oh and all the damn rap interludes, convos and cameos. Again it just comes off as pandering. "Well its a show of mostly blacks. Let's clunkily cram as much rap references as possible" Like we get it rap is great. I'm a fan, we don't need musical interludes of Rakim, Jadakiss, Method Man, Faith Evans, etc.
 
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I know Cage's showrunner is black and the JJ's show runner is a women and BL has a black showrunner as well if I recall. I'm just saying the way they handle it makes it come off like "white people trying to prove they're woke"
And in the case of Luke Cage, Coulter isn't a good enough actor to pull off sending that message out. Like the Crispus Attucks scene in season 1. Terrible

I think you make a good point here about some of the white staff writers trying to prove they are woke, so the message doesn't feel genuine. I do like Colter's performance for the most part though.

And that's fine if that's the way you feel, but most of the time I wouldn't go out a talk about or tell a woman, LGBT person, etc to "get a grip" fictional or not because I've never experienced what they go through. It's disrespectful. I have no interest in Cloak and Dagger but what the character said is a sentiment held by a lot of people and resonates with them. They put it in the show for a reason. It sounds heavy handed and I'd handle it with more finesse, but I wouldn't say "get a grip" Again it's disrespectful as hell

They don't know what I go through either. It goes both ways IMO. That's my whole problem with this check your privilege ********.
 
Luke is a very positive type of character. Not sure how he was in the comics back in the day compared to today, but I recall someone mentioning he was very Blaxploitation, which doesn't work so well in today's social/political climate.

For better or worse, this character has a lot of eyeballs on it. Almost to the same degree that BP had. BL had some interesting social commentary as well when it debuted 6 months ago. It handles some heavy themes for a show on the CW (a network aimed at teenage white girls).
 
I think you make a good point here about some of the white staff writers trying to prove they are woke, so the message doesn't feel genuine. I do like Colter's performance for the most part though.



They don't know what I go through either. It goes both ways IMO. That's my whole problem with this check your privilege ********.

Enlighten us then. What have you gone through that was negative that had specifically to do with your background, whatever it may be that was not a one off incident but a constant in your life or the lives of others with your background?

I'm Hispanic and I myself tire of the Black/White psychodrama of America because it's something that sucks the oxygen out of the room leaving other issues unaddressed. And I'll be the first to say that there are a lot of times "White people", get crapped on as a whole and in ways that are unfair... But it's always interesting that just bringing up that there is a privilege to being a White American sets some off. I went to a majority White High School having transferred from NYC to the rural lands of Pennsylvania. I've never been "street" even though I was raised in Brooklyn. Too "nerdy". Called a coconut by other Hispanics too often (brown outside, white inside). I wasn't a type inclined to be a trouble maker to begin with but I had a weight that my friends didn't have. As someone with a full on WAY too ethnic name (Miguel Alejandro Velez... Seriously mom?) I knew that I had to walk a straight and narrow MORE than my white peers. Why? Because if they got into minor trouble it would have been "boys will be boys". Slap on the wrist. I get called in front of a magistrate as a teen and the book will get thrown at me. That's but one of a plethora of examples of the biases that people of color face in the nation all the time for their whole lives. And yeah... The Martin hoodie thing resonates because it's based in a reality that while it makes some uncomfortable or elicits a snickering reaction is reflective of the real world.

That there are negative feedback loops of pathologies inside communities of color in this country that yeah, have a lot to do with just plain old bad choices doesn't somehow negate the existence and perpetuation of racial biases or structural and systemic racism in all facets of society, even yes, when as in law enforcement sometimes the perpetrators and upholders of those biases and systemic oppressive policies are themselves African or Hispanic Americans.

Everyone has their struggles. Just because someone is born "white" doesn't mean their life is a cakewalk or that things are handed to them, and no one in good faith that brings up "privilege" should suggest that. But it's disingenuous to say it's non-existent, or has not come into play in many situations in life in comparison to black and brown skinned citizens who are facing the same challenges white citizens have PLUS the lack of consideration that simply being white does grant one in various situations. We can just look at the headlines to see that yeah... Being a clean cut an average looking white guy at Starbucks probably means you can stay at a table for while before ordering. Do that as a clean cut, average looking African-American and apparently you get to go through the process of arrest and all that entails.


As for the show... Yeah, there's some clunkiness at times, even I will admit that. At the same time, I think taking that aspect of Cage and his world seriously has yielded some good material and performances. The back and forth Claire and he had in Ep 3 was very good because it illustrated issues Luke has but it also CHALLENGED Luke at the same time. My take was that yeah, Luke may have a right to be angry for any number of reasons, but it's not legitimate to let his anger lead him by the nose as all that does is make his life worse and the lives of those around him. As in politics, anger, outrage and resentment feel GREAT. But they aren't a solution to anything, whether as policy or as a way to live your life. That doesn't mean there aren't legit reasons to be angry but if anger is the start and finish of what you bring to the table (and sometimes, yeah, maybe even question whether you are even getting angry at the right thing) then end result is gonna be way more heat than light.
 
I'll respond into PM because I don't feel like continuing discussion here.
 
eh I'm not on all that. I agree with a lot of the politics in Luke Cage. They're just handled in very corny, heavy handed, and clunky ways. Same thing with Black Lightning and Jessica Jones (obviously with sex and feminism). Those seem like they put politics/message first before making a good show (less so with Jessica Jones)

I agree with this in general, although JJ, particularly season 1 handles it's issues far more skillfully.

I agree about Colter too. He as a lot of charm and charisma, but is limited as an actor. The opposite of Finn somewhat, who is more skilled technically, but lacks Colter's screen presence/charisma. Both mere miscast imo.
 
They don't know what I go through either. It goes both ways IMO. That's my whole problem with this check your privilege ********.

I'm of the same mindset in general. Some people will obviously read into that emotionally or how the media has trained and instructed them to view certain issues, but whatever, experience doesn't have to be popular or accepted in order to be true. It does go both ways.
 
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Enlighten us then. What have you gone through that was negative that had specifically to do with your background, whatever it may be that was not a one off incident but a constant in your life or the lives of others with your background?

I'm Hispanic and I myself tire of the Black/White psychodrama of America because it's something that sucks the oxygen out of the room leaving other issues unaddressed. And I'll be the first to say that there are a lot of times "White people", get crapped on as a whole and in ways that are unfair... But it's always interesting that just bringing up that there is a privilege to being a White American sets some off. I went to a majority White High School having transferred from NYC to the rural lands of Pennsylvania. I've never been "street" even though I was raised in Brooklyn. Too "nerdy". Called a coconut by other Hispanics too often (brown outside, white inside). I wasn't a type inclined to be a trouble maker to begin with but I had a weight that my friends didn't have. As someone with a full on WAY too ethnic name (Miguel Alejandro Velez... Seriously mom?) I knew that I had to walk a straight and narrow MORE than my white peers. Why? Because if they got into minor trouble it would have been "boys will be boys". Slap on the wrist. I get called in front of a magistrate as a teen and the book will get thrown at me. That's but one of a plethora of examples of the biases that people of color face in the nation all the time for their whole lives. And yeah... The Martin hoodie thing resonates because it's based in a reality that while it makes some uncomfortable or elicits a snickering reaction is reflective of the real world.

That there are negative feedback loops of pathologies inside communities of color in this country that yeah, have a lot to do with just plain old bad choices doesn't somehow negate the existence and perpetuation of racial biases or structural and systemic racism in all facets of society, even yes, when as in law enforcement sometimes the perpetrators and upholders of those biases and systemic oppressive policies are themselves African or Hispanic Americans.

Everyone has their struggles. Just because someone is born "white" doesn't mean their life is a cakewalk or that things are handed to them, and no one in good faith that brings up "privilege" should suggest that. But it's disingenuous to say it's non-existent, or has not come into play in many situations in life in comparison to black and brown skinned citizens who are facing the same challenges white citizens have PLUS the lack of consideration that simply being white does grant one in various situations. We can just look at the headlines to see that yeah... Being a clean cut an average looking white guy at Starbucks probably means you can stay at a table for while before ordering. Do that as a clean cut, average looking African-American and apparently you get to go through the process of arrest and all that entails.


As for the show... Yeah, there's some clunkiness at times, even I will admit that. At the same time, I think taking that aspect of Cage and his world seriously has yielded some good material and performances. The back and forth Claire and he had in Ep 3 was very good because it illustrated issues Luke has but it also CHALLENGED Luke at the same time. My take was that yeah, Luke may have a right to be angry for any number of reasons, but it's not legitimate to let his anger lead him by the nose as all that does is make his life worse and the lives of those around him. As in politics, anger, outrage and resentment feel GREAT. But they aren't a solution to anything, whether as policy or as a way to live your life. That doesn't mean there aren't legit reasons to be angry but if anger is the start and finish of what you bring to the table (and sometimes, yeah, maybe even question whether you are even getting angry at the right thing) then end result is gonna be way more heat than light.

I appreciate this well thought out, reasonable and honest perspective.
 
I agree with this in general, although JJ, particularly season 1 handles it's issues far more skillfully.

I agree about Colter too. He as a lot of charm and charisma, but is limited as an actor. The opposite of Finn somewhat, who is more skilled technically, but lacks Colter's screen presence/charisma. Both mere miscast imo.

see i don't even think he has much charm and charisma haha.

He's a good enough actor for a side character. He's not a lead though imo
 
While I respect everyone's views expressed on this thread and really appreciate that, for the most part, they've all been well thought out and respectful, I have to disagree.

As an African-American man, all of the views put forth in both seasons of Luke Cage hit home for me. I'm nowhere near as big or intimidating as Luke Cage and I get weird looks anytime I'm in a "predominantly Caucasian environment". I've been followed around stores by employee, had women clutch their purses as a walked by and been called N***er on more than one occasion.

Especially in today's climate, I find myself have to be constantly aware of my surroundings and behavior because you never know how someone will react and their reaction trigger a situation you never thought would occur (I'm trying very hard to dance around specifics).

I think if there really was a 6'5", bulletproof black man walking the streets, he'd make alot of people WAY more uncomfortable than say a 6'5" flying white man in red underwear would feel. While I'm sure folks will disagree, I can point to the MANY instances of a normal 6'5" black man inspiring fear and stupid actions.

While I understand why some of you think the message is "clunky", I look at it as they aren't trying to sugar coat anything. They are in your face about it and won't relent.

Also, I disagree that Coulter isn't a good actor, but we all have different tastes.
 
The themes in Luke Cage I felt were honest. Especially in the Cage/Claire scene, the show had some balance on the issues. So I don't think they approached the themes in off-putting ways. Which says something that I was not put off by the show in that regard, being as I am a white male and the show still spoke to me, LOL!

As for Colter, I think he is likeable and has charisma, but not a great actor. Which is fine because largely Luke has not needed him to dig deep like Charlie Cox has had to in Daredevil at various points or required Colter to have a scene like the graveyard scene in DD season 2 where Frank confides basically his soul to Matt. The show never has him go there, so the acting he does on the show is perfectly fine. But I don't see him as being capable of that type of performance.
 
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While I respect everyone's views expressed on this thread and really appreciate that, for the most part, they've all been well thought out and respectful, I have to disagree.

As an African-American man, all of the views put forth in both seasons of Luke Cage hit home for me. I'm nowhere near as big or intimidating as Luke Cage and I get weird looks anytime I'm in a "predominantly Caucasian environment". I've been followed around stores by employee, had women clutch their purses as a walked by and been called N***er on more than one occasion.

Especially in today's climate, I find myself have to be constantly aware of my surroundings and behavior because you never know how someone will react and their reaction trigger a situation you never thought would occur (I'm trying very hard to dance around specifics).

I think if there really was a 6'5", bulletproof black man walking the streets, he'd make alot of people WAY more uncomfortable than say a 6'5" flying white man in red underwear would feel. While I'm sure folks will disagree, I can point to the MANY instances of a normal 6'5" black man inspiring fear and stupid actions.

While I understand why some of you think the message is "clunky", I look at it as they aren't trying to sugar coat anything. They are in your face about it and won't relent.

Also, I disagree that Coulter isn't a good actor, but we all have different tastes.
You can present a message, not sugarcoat things, and not make it clunky. The message itself has nothing to do with it being clunky. It's how they handle it.

As I said I agree with most of the messages in Luke Cage, Black Lightning, and Jessica Jones. Just the way they present them does not make for good TV most of the time. If they were writing an essay or after school special then cool. But this is supposed to be mature storytelling, but alot of the tkme they have immature methods to presenting what they want to say
 
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You can present a message, not sugarcoat things, and not make it clunky. The message itself has nothing to do with it being clunky. It's how they handle it.

As I said I agree with most of the messages in Luke Cage, Black Lightning, and Jessica Jones. Just the way they present them does not make for good TV most of the time. If they were writing an essay or after school special then cool. But this is supposed to be mature storytelling, but alot of the tkme they have immature methods to presenting what they want to say

I think something being described as "clunky" or any other adjective is something that exists within that particular person's opinions. For what it's worth, no one else I know who's watched it feels this way.
 
Well yeah it's someone's opinion. That's most of what happens when breaking down a piece of art

And its not really worth anything that you know no one who feels the same way. It doesn't really change or negate the people who do feel that it's clunky
 
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So is season 2 better or more of the same?
 
I hated season 1, but enjoyed season 2 a lot.
 
Well yeah it's someone's opinion. That's most of what happens when breaking down a piece of art

And its not really worth anything that you know no one who feels the same way. It doesn't really change or negate the people who do feel that it's clunky

My apologies. My intent was not to "change or negate" your opinion. Just posting a counterpoint.
 
My apologies. My intent was not to "change or negate" your opinion. Just posting a counterpoint.

No need to apologize you didn't do anything wrong. Its a discussion, a back and forth, I was just presenting a counterpoint to you counterpoint.
 
I love all the themes in the show it's just the dialog gets too on the nose and cheesy. I prefer things like that be more subtle, showing rather than telling. Daredevil season 1 did a great job of having the plot be about gentrification without ever saying so. JJ season 1 did great at examining it's issues in subtle and not so subtle ways. Luke Cage just needs to strike a better balance, season 2 is a good improvement I hope they build on.

So is season 2 better or more of the same?

It's more of the same in many regards, but it's much more even storytelling. Season 1 had a great first half and a lack luster second half, Season 2 is good throughout. There's no radical change to the formula, same characters and similar situations just moving forward. Definitely an improvement over all. So if you really didn't like anything in Season 1 you probably won't like season 2. But if you still enjoyed season 1 you'll like season 2 more.
 
Season 2 is a little more balanced overall. Season 1 started really strong but then hit a steep decline after loss of Cottonmouth.

Season 2 doesn't really have that uneven second half. However, the season also feels really stretched and padded out. Character relationships are constantly taking 180 degree turns.
 

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