Luthor's Evil Plot

Discussion in 'Superman Returns' started by Spare-Flair, May 13, 2006.

  1. Spare-Flair Registered

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    So it seem apparent that Luthor's plot is to blow off part of the U.S. continent to create his own which will cause billions of deaths. Isn't this just a rehash of the original Superman's plot to knock off the pacific coast for real estate? Just with alien technology instead of ICBMs?

    Does anybody else have a problem with this? It seems very unoriginal to me and again, smacks of unoriginality and the Hackman characterization of Luthor which completely goes against what Luthor actually is in the comics. It's too blatantely obvious, over-the-top, and ultimately stupid thing for Luthor to do.

    Luthor should be a cold, calculating, cold-blooded, and ruthless individual but ultimately he sees himself as the salvation of mankind against the alien (Superman) and that's the source of his enmity with Superman. He wouldn't cause billions of deaths to help himself (wouldn't blowing off 1/4 of the U.S. ruin this economy and his empire as well?), although he wouldn't blink at killing behind the scenes, never getting his actual hands dirty enough to be incriminated or disdained by the general population.

    He's someone who revels in his own genius in weaving impossibly intricate plots beyond even Superman's ability to decipher as his true weapon and ability to beat his foe. He's someone incredibly evil, but also incredibly smart and restrained who has his work done by others in the shadows unless it aids his public persona (ie: running for President). In the comics, one of the reasons he hates Superman is that Superman takes the glory away from him as being a great contributer to mankind.

    It just frustrates me so much that Singer seems to have no idea who Lex Luthor is, thinks, or has things done and has just gone back to the same concept of Hackman's crazy Luthor done to the same exact plot. Would Luthor even do something like kidnap Lois and her kid and openly taunt them? It all seems so childish. He also seems to be keeping the exact same company as the Hackman Luthor, a bunch of comical henchman and a spoiled comical lady companion. What happened to Luthor's adept agents, cold blooded killers, evil business partners (keeping his enemies closer than his friends), and keeping women (or being kept around by powerful women) like the Contessa?

    Why do all comic book villains in movies have to be the same? I realize we've only seen a sliver of his character from the trailer but it's just remininding me of Tommy Lee Jones playing Two-Face like the Joker and every other crazy manically laughing villain because Schumacher had no idea what he was doing. Let's hope Singer fares better.
     
  2. bsquad Registered

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    He is trying to create his own continent. That and get revenge on Superman. What other people do don't matter to him, as long as he gets what he wants. Land, power, and a dead Superman.
     
  3. Agnarr Registered

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    You are contradicting yourself, here. Cold, calculating, and ruthless . . . is not planning world domination by creating your own continent which you can sell parts of for millions of dollars and setting yourself up as a dictator, whereby in the process countless people will die?

    Okay then.

    The different incarnations of Lex are as varied as Superman. As Singer has repeated again and again, no one version is "right" or "better" than the others. We are just seeing his version of Lex.

    A lot of assumptions on your part. WAFO. Watch and find out, then come back with complaints if this Lex doesnt work within the context of the movie.
     
  4. bsquad Registered

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    Spare-flair your mad he didn't choose the version of Lex that you liked. Just because he chose a different version-does not make it the wrong version.
     
  5. Spare-Flair Registered

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    Where does it say that cold, calculating, and ruthless --- and being a dictator are mutually inclusive? Luthor is an intellectual. He should realize that eschatonic plots and isolationist tyranny doesn't work in the long run...unless he's a student of Darkseid and uses the technology to brainwash and zombify all the inhabitants of his new continent into slavish work. Is that something Luthor would want?

    I'm mostly frustrated that we're getting the same thing over again as in 1977. Knock off part of the U.S. continent for the benefit of personal real estate. Can't we get some cool, mysterious, elaborate, twisting plot that really makes you think? Something subtle with clues, like ... (I hate to use this analogy) but an M. Night Shyamalan plot? Like what you get in the comics where you don't realize just how well planned out, complicated, and evil what Luthor is doing until the very end? That the evil is compounded by the fact that he hides everything and does it with so much tact that he avoids all responsibility and just laughs at Superman who can do nothing but stare at him menacingly through his high-rise window?

    And bsquad, like I said in the other thread, that one version of Luthor was done once in 1977 was an amalgam of pre-crisis zany comic book plots, Donner's direction, (who knows how much Mario Puzo put into what we got in the end, reportedly, it's not much), and Hackman (great actor nonetheless).

    The darker comic version of Luthor has been done thousands of times since 1986 and is the realistic and considered proper characterization of Luthor, otherwise, Spacey is just playing another random crazy dollar store movie villain only with the Luthor name and baldness attached to signify who he is.

    Okay, fine, this is supposed to be a spiritual sequel to Superman I and II, fine. But can't Lex come up with something different? He's just doing the same thing all over again...This is going to shape what Superman is to the public for the next 10 years. I don't want it to be all the same again. Lex values power, true power. Not land, which is a very liquid power. I suppose it will work if this really is the EXACT same character as Hackman, who is bent on revenge for Superman ruining his 1977 plot and simply wants to do it again out of sheer stubborness. That's not Lex Luthor to me. That's Donner and Hackman's Luthor. I though this was 2006, not 1977.
     
  6. The Incredible Hulk Bad Hombre

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    why does movie Lex Luthor always have to have hard-on for real estate? He's like an even more insane version of Donald Trump...
     
  7. bsquad Registered

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    If he makes his own continent, with Kryptonian technology way beyond anythign on Earth to protect it and he is backed up with a way to stop the only force that can stand toe to toe with him-what does he have to fear and worry about. Who will eb able to stand up to him? Especially if he cripples half the world by making his continent.

    I think the idea is that he is gaining his power and control thanks to Superman. Thanks to Superman's technology and in the long scheme of things, thanks to the fact that Superman even arrived on Earth. This is about revenge and power. He gets what he always wanted which is his own land to rule over, and ebough tecnhnology to bully the world into submission and he gets it by using Superman's heritage against not only Superman but the world. That's a major kick in the nuts if I do say so myself.
     
  8. Spare-Flair Registered

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    Haha! Great analogy. The question is, which one has better hair? :)
     
  9. VGPOP Registered

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    Well in the original Superman, he wanted to blow out the poorest part of California.

    In this movie, he still continue with his idea, but is now thinking bigger. Half of America gone.

    What's wrong with that?

    Time in prison does a lot of things to a lunatic, brilliant mind.
     
  10. bsquad Registered

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    Its economics. He's gaining all the main resources neccessary: Land, Capital, Labor, Entrepreneurship and Technology. Put it together and what does he have: immense power
     
  11. Spare-Flair Registered

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    The comic Lex Luthor would hire someone to stab your mother rather than kicking you in the nuts. He's indirect and cherishes public glory. Making your own continent, setting up a fence, and then arming yourself against invaders...isn't he just a super Fidel Castro?

    I'll shut-up and eat my own shoe if in the movie, he causes devastation and hardship through something like a 9/11 conspiracy (and pretends to rush to America's aid), then does it through dummy corporations and has a puppet pretending to be the dictator or something discreet like that.
     
  12. bsquad Registered

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    That's fine for the comic Lex. But I just don't see what is wrong with what this Lex wants to do and the fact that he isn't worried about what the public thinks. Its what he wants that is driving him. Why hire someone to stab your mother when he can kick you in the nuts and, in the case of this film, go ahead to stab you in the back with his own 2 hands
     
  13. Spare-Flair Registered

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    I went to business school, that's just business school bunk :) I also have a poli sci degree, that's not power. Lex's libido ad domini is smarter than that. You can't sustain land, capital, labor, entrepreneurship (especially that one) and techology under tyrannical dictatorship behind alien guns. Lex Luthor will run for U.S. President to use all it's infrastructure to his own advantage. He won't blatently destroy all that infrastructure and create a political enemy in making himself the president of his own island.

    Sigh, it's just a movie. And a comic book movie to boot about a solar powered alien baby...and I know I am nerdy and totally stupid to be overthinking this not to mention making so many posts...


    I just want something grittier and new. Not a rehash of the same old thing. I just want Singer to earnestly listen to fans and make an effort to get something out of the comics which have been published hundreds of thousands of times for decades versus taking so much from one movie back in the 70s. Do something like what Nolan did in listening to fans for their choice in Bale, working with David Goyer to write the script with so much of the comic in it that fans were just oozing with acknowledgement at all the homages to Year One, Chronicles of the Dark Knight, tons of Bat comics, and various name drops and proper characterizations. Sure Ras turned out to be more Irish than Arab, but he was the proper character and the plot was subtle and hidden. Everything about SR seems overdone and the obvious...jump the shark material.

    Lois has a kid? Is it Superman's? What's Lex going to do? Oh, the same thing?
     
  14. Spare-Flair Registered

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    [​IMG]

    1 hand :p
    okay, okay, I give p. :O :up: :up: :)

    (p.s. don't get me started on Lex's fashion sense)
     
  15. bsquad Registered

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    If you went to business cool you would know how stupid what you just said is. Its basic economics the 3 basic concepts being Land, Capital, and Labor. Look around-what do all these major corporations and moguls have alot of other than money?
    So having your own land and technology does not give you power? What does it give you then?

    Plus the guy is willing to destroy half the world to gain power-I think its safe to say he will go that extra length for more, especially seeing as though its unlikely anyone on this planet will have the means to stop him.

    Plus youu assuming Goyer and Nolan were listening to the fans. I'm willign to bet money they weren't. I'm sure they said they were but the decisions they made were their decisions, not based on what fans thought. Believe it or not-fans don't have as much power as you may think they do.
     
  16. Spare-Flair Registered

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    Google has almost no land and little labor, yet more capital than most real estate tycoons and the largest employers in America. Land and labor are as not readily liquifiable. Power can be influence, it can be fear. Rising economics of scale make being a tyranical dictator of a continent unrealistic.

    Listening doesn't have to be direct, two way communication. By staying true to concepts lifted out of the comics, by employing comic book writers familiar with the material, familiar with what has proved most enduring in the mythos, what has proved the most popular (just in terms of sales and sheer impact into the mythos - ie: Year One), they indirectly listened to what fans desired. SR to me, seems like a production seeking to revive the first movie and a mishmash of names trying to make money on convoluted material and what would work for non-comic book audiences...but none of it seems to be clicking for me and many other people. Superhero movies easily go wrong. Many of us cannot be easy going as you and say: "it's just a movie, it's just collar". It's also just what is going to define Superman for 10 years, it's a major motion picture event and franchise foundation.

    We may be critical, but really, comic book fans just don't want the movie and the future franchise to be a disappointment. All the best to SR, but so far, it seems lacking.

    Like Chris Reeve said, "Superman should be an event movie". It should live it to that standard for everybody but most importantly for those people who have been buying the comics and supported the character through the years. Many people are predicting a serious lack of ...things just clicking, bang, sparkle, and quality, from what we've seen.
     
  17. Dope Nose Registered

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    ever heard of a warm, merciful dictator?
     
  18. Superman \S/ Registered

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    New Krypton
    Is basically what Lex has in mind. And really it should be awesome to see how Superman will deal with the task to stop him.
     
  19. explode7 Registered

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    Why spoiler New krypton everyone knows about it dude.
     
  20. Superman \S/ Registered

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    Cause i feel like it. :o
     
  21. explode7 Registered

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  22. Superman \S/ Registered

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    I just told you.
     
  23. explode7 Registered

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    Really? Why?
     
  24. Superman \S/ Registered

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    Do not be an idiot.
     
  25. explode7 Registered

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    Dude I'm just messing with you it's all good right?:) :O :(
     

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