Born Again Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again General Discussion Thread

[Breogan]

Re: from way back:

...Cops or people in a position of authority who adopt or fetishize that symbol and still pretend to represent the "law" have lost the thread, and don't understand what it means or their role.
And the fantasy Punisher would [should] likely be the first to take them out.

If true above^ it looks like the police (or a fringe group) may have co-opted his symbol.
So that actually might be what the show addresses, don't be surprised if his whole arc might have him now reject it, and find he has to fight them.

Realistically NO ONE in the Armed Forces OR the Police Force should be sporting that skull.

Agree!

Though can't really opine with military using it personally (non officially) how they reconcile with what they must do. I have no problem with Bernthal empathizing with.
Cops on the other hand, well the comic said it best.

Though on the other hand the extreme left has gone so unhinged, they'd likely take offense at that too.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

The problem being that US police before 9/11 took on the warrior mode. In that our SWAT team does more "urban combat" than the SEALs/Green Berets. And they took on the skulls that say USMC Recon units (so fits a pre Marine Raider era Castle) amongst militaries worldwide, not just the SS had as part of their unit insignias.

I can't prove it now with digital correction of TV shows but on the CBS SWAT reboot I am sure that some of their helmets had the "Punisher" insignia on them.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I was just thinking, since Marvel has criminally underused Simu Liu despite the fact that he can fight AND act, can they maybe bring him into Born Again season 2 and just say he’s the Iron Fist now? They can just say Danny died after he punched a wall and a building collapsed on him.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I was just thinking, since Marvel has criminally underused Simu Liu despite the fact that he can fight AND act, can they maybe bring him into Born Again season 2 and just say he’s the Iron Fist now? They can just say Danny died after he punched a wall and a building collapsed on him.

Netflix/Defenders is now canon there is no need to open that can of worms. If Fin Jones was not good enough and you don't trust the actor to make up for his prior lack of preparation to fight Cine-graphically and you want an Iron Fist there is the Terrance Howard option. If a White guy being one of the top martial arts masters, as Matt Murdock's MMA fighting or Black Widow flips are not seen as usurping Asian cultures then Coleen Wing had become the Iron Fist before the Blip.

With San Francisco the second city of the MCU Shang Chi master of the martial arts and wielder of the 10 rings can just stay himself in whatever function they wish to use him in.

 

[TheVileOne]

IMHO, The Punisher is a fictional character. He's a power fantasy character just like James Bond or Jack Reacher. Or Marvel superheroes. In real life, superheroes or vigilantes would not be legally allowed to do what they do in these stories. Vigilantism itself is illegal and a crime. But these are fictional stories about people doing things that normal individuals cannot and that we in our everyday lives cannot.

IMHO, it's OK not to agree with a character's values but still enjoy a story about a character or characters who take the law into their own hands and fight against perceived injustice. It's fantasy, and it should be allowed to exist as fantasy.

Also, I'm not going to hold The Punisher responsible for things idiots are doing because he's a fictional character. It's not Bernthal or The Punisher's responsibility. They are making art at the end of the day.

 

[Deck Rickard]

IMHO, The Punisher is a fictional character. He's a power fantasy character just like James Bond or Jack Reacher. Or Marvel superheroes. In real life, superheroes or vigilantes would not be legally allowed to do what they do in these stories. Vigilantism itself is illegal and a crime. But these are fictional stories about people doing things that normal individuals cannot and that we in our everyday lives cannot.

IMHO, it's OK not to agree with a character's values but still enjoy a story about a character or characters who take the law into their own hands and fight against perceived injustice. It's fantasy, and it should be allowed to exist as fantasy.

Also, I'm not going to hold The Punisher responsible for things idiots are doing because he's a fictional character. It's not Bernthal or The Punisher's responsibility. They are making art at the end of the day.

Yeah. I remember that idiot Armond White wrote an article blaming Chris Nolan when that psycho **** up a movie theater showing The Dark Knight Rises. It was infuriating (like everything he writes). Of course, he’s also a guy who believes Democrats are sneaking in millions of people from other countries to vote for them.

 

[Havok83]

i finished it last week. Was shocked at how little Karen was in this. She just up and disappeared until the end. Punisher also want well utilized and I felt we needed more of him. I wasnt a fan of the first few episodes but midway it finally go good. A decent followup to the Netflix series

 

[Gu3ree]

I was just thinking, since Marvel has criminally underused Simu Liu despite the fact that he can fight AND act, can they maybe bring him into Born Again season 2 and just say he’s the Iron Fist now? They can just say Danny died after he punched a wall and a building collapsed on him.

That would be consistent with the character. I never liked Danny. I wouldn't mind if they brought him back though, if done right.

 

[Gu3ree]

Okay nitpick time. Neither of these things matter but they bother me for some reason.

Frank’s Punisher skull. It bugs me that it’s unfinished on the left side lol. The one in the Netflix show was kinda like that too but it was bigger and looked more complete. This one makes it look like he ran out of spray paint halfway through lol.

Matt’s beard. I don’t mind a little stubble but what is with the obsession lately with giving guys who wear masks full beards. I’m cool with Red Guardian having one because he’s supposed to looks silly but I would prefer Matt and US Agent to be clean shaven. I don’t know if anyone else feels this way.

Punisher's half skull or missing left side has bugged me too, but I didn't think to mention it until now. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt the same way. Murdock's beard is only a slight issue for me. Interestingly when I watched Arrow, I was always hoping that Oliver would gradually grow a thicker beard or look more like his comic book character's beard, but it happened so slowly, that I didn't even notice, in season 5, his beard was quite thick from that point. The character didn't really grow the iconic goatee until we saw the character in prison, but my only regret is that we didn't get to see him suit up in the Green Arrow suit WITH that beard, not even once. Same with Murdock though, I rarely noticed. It went from unshaven, 5 o' clock shadow to pretty much a legitimate beard. I think he could go back to being a little less of a beard like he was in the Netflix series, considering he is back as DD again after a year, he should.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Punisher's half skull or missing left side has bugged me too, but I didn't think to mention it until now. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt the same way. Murdock's beard is only a slight issue for me. Interestingly when I watched Arrow, I was always hoping that Oliver would gradually grow a thicker beard or look more like his comic book character's beard, but it happened so slowly, that I didn't even notice, in season 5, his beard was quite thick from that point. The character didn't really grow the iconic goatee until we saw the character in prison, but my only regret is that we didn't get to see him suit up in the Green Arrow suit WITH that beard, not even once. Same with Murdock though, I rarely noticed. It went from unshaven, 5 o' clock shadow to pretty much a legitimate beard. I think he could go back to being a little less of a beard like he was in the Netflix series, considering he is back as DD again after a year, he should.

Yeah, I’m not sure why they went the full beard route with him. Especially after his appearances in She-Hulk and No Way Home, where he just had a little stubble. That look is perfect. Though since he’s a high-profile lawyer now, I think he would look best clean shaven.

And yeah, the skull thing bugs the hell out of me lol. It’s a dumb thing to get hung up on but I think it was a bit glaring because that one dirty cop who killed White Tiger actually had a better looking skull than Frank lol. The rest of the cops’ skulls looked stupid though.

 

[Gu3ree]

For the most part, I think Murdock still looks like Daredevil in the suit even with the--that's actually a beard --not 5 o' clock shadow. I guess this superheroes wearing beards trend started with Man of Steel or Batman Begins. I forget about Thor and Tony Stark, but I just realized, Thor started out with just fuzzy light facial hair. I didn't notice how thick his beard had grown by Thor: Ragnorak. Over the course of at least 5 films with Thor by that point, it was so subtle, I didn't notice the difference from the first movie, minus the eyebrow coloring, and maybe the facial hair was dyed blonde too? But later on I did notice the difference after revisiting the older films.

But right now, Mister Fantastic has a mustache. I liked the idea of Reed Richards having a full mustache and a beard as we saw in the comics, but also it suited John Krasinski's Mr. Fantastic. Of course using only a mustache rather than a full beard is slightly new, but I can accept. It works for Pedro Pascal. A clean and tidy beard might look nice on him too. I don't know.

But the beard trend even extended to Superman in Superman & Lois, clearly inspired by Zack Snyder's Man of Steel. They want to establish an aged and more weary Superman. I had mixed feelings about the facial hair, but I liked the take on it simultaneously. It was intentional, and you'll notice from the flashbacks, Superman was clean-shaven. I don't think a fully-bearded Superman would work, though I would like to see it maybe just once.

But if we're just talking Matt Murdock, he should just have nothing more than a 5 o' clock shadow.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, I’m not sure why they went the full beard route with him. Especially after his appearances in She-Hulk and No Way Home, where he just had a little stubble. That look is perfect. Though since he’s a high-profile lawyer now, I think he would look best clean shaven.

I like to imagine that his beard grows like that one scene of Tim Allen in the Santa Clause. It ended up being too much work having to shave it.

That being said, there's something symbolic about him having more facial hair. He basically let himself go just a little bit. If they continue with the full facial hair look next season, I'm going back to the Santa Clause theory, though.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Finally finished BA tonight. I am not as enamoured with the season as some. It very disjointed to me and even some episodes felt that way to me.

I will watch season 2 though. The Punisher being added definitely helped the season.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I can't believe there hasn't been more criticism about the bamboozling logic of how Kingpin got released from prison.

Judge : Fisk, you're going to prison for corrupting the FBI.

Kingpin: I should be released from custody.

Judge: and why the hell should we release a 2X convicted felon?

Kingpin: because the FBI is corrupted.

Judge: oh okay. You're released from custody.

Like WHAT?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I can't believe there hasn't been more criticism about the bamboozling logic of how Kingpin got released from prison.

Judge : Fisk, you're going to prison for corrupting the FBI.

Kingpin: I should be released from custody.

Judge: and why the hell should we release a 2X convicted felon?

Kingpin: because the FBI is corrupted.

Judge: oh okay. You're released from custody.

Like WHAT?

Its America "hey jury member you can't trust a thing a Fed said, look how corrupt they were." And while you are thinking on that do you want to take the silver, or the lead. If the jury doesn't vote not guilty on the spot then perhaps people start getting dusted in the Blip.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Finally finished BA tonight. I am not as enamoured with the season as some. It very disjointed to me and even some episodes felt that way to me.

I will watch season 2 though. The Punisher being added definitely helped the season.

I think with Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead directing much of Season 2, it's gonna feel much more jointed without the creative overhaul that season 1 went through. I have faith that the next season is gonna be much better.

 

[RokMeAmadeus]

I can't believe there hasn't been more criticism about the bamboozling logic of how Kingpin got released from prison.

Judge : Fisk, you're going to prison for corrupting the FBI.

Kingpin: I should be released from custody.

Judge: and why the hell should we release a 2X convicted felon?

Kingpin: because the FBI is corrupted.

Judge: oh okay. You're released from custody.

Like WHAT?

Absolutely. They urinated on the ending of s3 for no good reason, and couldn't even be arsed to come up with a decent way to have it happen.

 

[RokMeAmadeus]

I think with Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead directing much of Season 2, it's gonna feel much more jointed without the creative overhaul that season 1 went through. I have faith that the next season is gonna be much better.

I have no reason at all to trust them now.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Its America "hey jury member you can't trust a thing a Fed said, look how corrupt they were." And while you are thinking on that do you want to take the silver, or the lead. If the jury doesn't vote not guilty on the spot then perhaps people start getting dusted in the Blip.

if that's what happened, then they need to show how it happened. The Daredevil IP has done little to nothing to delineate how the blip has affected these characters. I'm sure Vanessa & Wilson used the blip's effects to its advantage, but they don't show or talk about it at all.

and to make matters worse, Matt didn't seem to care when Kingpin was released either. it all sucks

Absolutely. They urinated on the ending of s3 for no good reason, and couldn't even be arsed to come up with a decent way to have it happen.

exactly! I mean, we all knew that season 3 was never gonna be the end of Kingpin. even if the Netflix show didn't get canceled, they of course had plans to bring him back for a season 4 & 5. but like, the way they just had one line one of this ridiculous dialogue completely ruined season 3 for me.

I have no reason at all to trust them now.

yeah same here. I believe they deserve credit for saving the show from being worse than it was going to be, but I also think that people are giving them too much credit.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I wonder how Mayor Fisk would react to what happened to him and his city in Thunderbolts*

 

[Dr. Evil]

I wonder how Mayor Fisk would react to what happened to him and his city in Thunderbolts*

I would not be at all surprised if he knows Val and is friendly with her.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I would not be at all surprised if he knows Val and is friendly with her.

True, but I was thinking more about Bob.

 

[Venom 1988]

Tbf we don't know when this movie is supposed to take place in relation to the show. It's possible season 2 may take place before it.

 

[Dr. Evil]

True, but I was thinking more about Bob.

With someone as powerful as Bob, Fisk may be forced to have a super powered character fight on his side, even if there's going to be protests from the Task Force and apprehension from him. The thing about the Task Force is that they are regular humans. Vigilantes like Swordsman and the Punisher are easy for them to contain. Someone like Bob would not be easy for them to subdue and kidnap or even kill.

I am most curious to see how the Task Force handles Elektra if Elektra comes back for season two.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Tbf we don't know when this movie is supposed to take place in relation to the show. It's possible season 2 may take place before it.

Prologue was in 2025. 2nd episode was the beginning of the New Year into 2027. There was also an episode that heavily stated it was St. Patrick's Day.....so March 2027. I imagine by the end of Born again we were getting into April/May.

* Small spoilers for Thunderbolts*!

Thunderbolts must have taken place toward the end of 2027 then. Maybe July/August/September? The end credit scene then said 14 months later. Which would be in line with Avengers: Doomsday taking place toward the end of 2028


So Born Again Season 2 taking place before Thunderbolts* kinda puts it into a small window of June/July. Maybe they address everything that happened in Thunderbolts early on in the season and leave it at that?