Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[spideyboy_1111]

Did he atleast use derogatory words and slurs???

lol bud, its right there posted on this page read it...

 

[Dr.Doom]

just read the scans

 

[La The Darkman]

Did he atleast use derogatory words and slurs???

Nope.....I think the whole thing was just blown WAY out of proportion by some...alot of complaints about this series either don't happen at all or don't happen like people make it seems like it does (like the "straight tripping boo" thing i mentioned earlier). The current Black Panther title isn't perfect by any stretch but it's not even close to as bad as some would have you believe.

 

[Dr.Doom]

black people are WAY to sensitive

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

black people are WAY to sensitive

That comment was unneccessary and...well, stupid. Stop making them.

And please stick to the topic at hand. Thanks.

I think you're being very misleading by saying mentioning that and leaving out the fact that that line was used in the House of M tie in and that the line itself was a quote with T'challa saying something along the lines of "What is it that the Americans say "you got me straight tripping boo"....It's not like he himself said it on his own in a regular issue of the series.

You make a good point and I apologize--I wasn't deliberately trying to mislead anyone (I didn't have the comic in front of me when I posted that comment, but I remembered the quote).

However, my basic point remains: T'Challa considers American Society to be substandard and rife with cultural inadequacies. IMO, it is out of character for him to subscribe to this country's slang to express his feelings about a woman he cares about. Using it trivialized his intelligence and sophistication as a Monarch...and to me it was just an obvious effort to make the comic "hip" to black readers.

Do you agree with that assessment?

I think Hudlin is doing ok......nothing great though, it's fun book that I enjoy reading, but I will admit the wedding arch lost my instrest a bit....I like the idea of the pairing I just feel that the whole wedding stuff was rushed....There is a histroy between these two even without the retcon but not enough to forgive how rushed everything felt....

I'm with you on this.

As I mentioned, I've been collecting BP for many years now. And the concept of the two of them married in of itself is great--I have zero problem with the union. It's the way that it was executed that I thought left a lot to be desired.

Here's my gripe: Other high profile character marriages (like the aforementioned Reed/Susan, Pete/Mary Jane, Scott/Emma/Jean, etc.) are given months or years to incubate so fans can actually absorb the developments at a natural pace. So why were Marvel's two highest profile black characters denied this treatment? I felt this approach reduced them to basically an arranged marriage. True, there was some tiny precedent for their relationship under Priest's run, but not nearly enough to warrant a fast-track wedding. Why Quesada & Co. couldn't give Ororo and T'Challa's situation time to breathe like everyone else's is beyond me.

Oh, wait...they wanted to tie it in for last year's Black History Month...that's right. :

I think it's going great now though, Storm is the only character that's actually put Black Panther in his place, but she was also smart enough to know she should follow HIS lead in diplomatic precedings seeing as how she not as well versed in them as he is.

Agreed to an extent.

With a few exception, I've actually never really had too much problem with the way Hudlin handles T'Challa himself...I think he "gets" him. I liked the arcs involving Falcon, Luke, Blade and the "Wild Kingdom" crossover. You know what's really funny? I actually thought Hudlin wrote Storm decently during that time period. Something has happened since then...and I don't recognize her right now.

There's nothing we can really do about it--the marriage is done. There's potential for growth, but only time will tell.

Who hasn't been written out of character lately? Marvel's been bending and flexing what is "characteristic" of these characters to make Civil War work. This panel seems no different.

Agreed, and that's the crux of the matter for me. Also, thanks to Anubis for posting the panels in question.

 

[Anubis]

Looking at that whole comic again, makes me really wish Scott Eaton was still doing the art. He did a pretty good job. I mean, if you can't have JRJR, then I guess Eaton isn't a bad replacement.


Oh and somebody mentioned something earlier about why JRJR wasn't on the book anymore and that was because he was doing the Sentry mini with Jenkins followed by working with Gaimen on Eternals. All this was set up ahead of time, so it was always gonna be a six issue arc. Just something to get people to buy it when it first came out. Hey, what chu gonna do? It's Neil f**king Gaimen and Jack Kirby characters. (Incidentally, so is BP.) You get an offer like that, you do it.

 

[Darthphere]

Looking at that whole comic again, makes me really wish Scott Eaton was still doing the art. He did a pretty good job. I mean, if you can't have JRJR, then I guess Eaton isn't a bad replacement.


Oh and somebody mentioned something earlier about why JRJR wasn't on the book anymore and that was because he was doing the Sentry mini with Jenkins followed by working with Gaimen on Eternals. All this was set up ahead of time, so it was always gonna be a six issue arc. Just something to get people to buy it when it first came out. Hey, what chu gonna do? It's Neil f**king Gaimen and Jack Kirby characters. (Incidentally, so is BP.) You get an offer like that, you do it.

Or you don't and work on Spider-Man again.

 

[Anubis]

Bah, screw Spider-Man.

 

[Darthphere]

I did. He isn't any good.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, I could tell. I got a seventh sense about these things.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

So Anubis was mentioning to me that Black Panther and Storm are joining the Fantastic Four. I think this is a good idea if for anything just giving the royal couple some larger MU exposure beyond Black Panther.

Interestingly enough, McDuffy is writing this new FF line-up. Love, love, love this man's work. But If I'm not mistaken, isn't he African American? I ask because it seems that whenever BP is written these days it's by a man of color (Hudlin and Priest are black too). I question if this is some unspoken Marvel standard or just coincidence?

Also, does anyone think Ororo and T'Challa will don blue FF uniforms? I can imagine the latter designing some high-tech navy derivative laced with vibranium.

 

[terry78]

I do agree with the whole Civil War thing. Suddenly all our favorite characters are dealing with something on par with blacklisting and concentration camp type stuff, and it's affecting them in different ways, both heroes and villains. I can give Hudlin some slack if that is indeed why he's going this route.

 

[Miss Webb]

Call me unorthodox...but Beverly Johnson was born to play Storm in my opinion.

She's 5'11, regal and elegant. A bad-ass actress...and these are relatively recent pics; she's 47 years old here.

I just want to know who else FOX was considering back in 2000 aside from Halle Berry for the role of Storm. The fact that they'd cast someone fairskinned and petite for this character when other actresses like this were available (and Beverly has that deep throaty voice that Storm has--I can just imagine her shrieking "The Wind Cries Storm!" LOL ) brings up the whole "one-size-fits-all" token black actress thing.

We know that Bryen Singer didn't want the character included anyways, so did he just say "Well fuggit!" and just cast the first pretty face he saw? To me, this betrays a lack of understanding for the character. I love Halle Berry, and I am looking forward to her in X3. But one look at her and it's blatantly obvious that the director/casting crew just didn't give a damn in casting Storm.

Interesting you mention the Halle Berry angle. The so called 'black' actresses presented to national audiences (for movies) are always light skinned or half white. It's like there's a code saying she has to have color but not be really 'black', just enough to seem exotic. There's still subtle typing going on out there when it comes to roles and so called 'cross over' acceptance. Personally I think the corporate heads (Ie white males predom) sell people short with this old stereotypical thinking. Conversely, you RARELY see light skinned black men or half white 'black' men portrayed as 'black' heroes, be they live action or comics. They're usually dark skinned and bald. This is rooted in the (dark/threatening light/non threatening) symbolism that has become a part of advertising culture.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Interesting you mention the Halle Berry angle. The so called 'black' actresses presented to national audiences (for movies) are always light skinned or half white. It's like there's a code saying she has to have color but not be really 'black', just enough to seem exotic. There's still subtle typing going on out there when it comes to roles and so called 'cross over' acceptance. Personally I think the corporate heads (Ie white males predom) sell people short with this old stereotypical thinking. Conversely, you RARELY see light skinned black men or half white 'black' men portrayed as 'black' heroes, be they live action or comics. They're usually dark skinned and bald. This is rooted in the (dark/threatening light/non threatening) symbolism that has become a part of advertising culture.

You raise a good point Miss Webb.

I have a feeling though that stupid "trend" might be coming to an end soon...with the victory of this young lady. She's making a connection with white audiences that has eluded even Miss Berry.

 

[Darthphere]

Jennifer Hudson is fat, fact.

Also her white connection comes from American Idol, as ratings and such show, is laregly a white audience.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Star power. Unfortunate that her skill doesn't actually attract an audience.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Jennifer Hudson is fat, fact.

Also her white connection comes from American Idol, as ratings and such show, is laregly a white audience.

What does her fatness have to do with anything?

And I'm sorry...but her American Idol audience would have little impact on the Academy or other critics. She's certainly not coasting on to fame on the strength of those "auditions".

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

You underestimate the power the idiocy of the general American populace carries.

 

[Darthphere]

What does her fatness have to do with anything?

And I'm sorry...but her American Idol audience would have little impact on the Academy or other critics. She's certainly not coasting on to fame on the strength of those "auditions".

Yeah she is, considering, she wouldnt have gotten the role in the first place if not for Idol.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Yeah she is, considering, she wouldnt have gotten the role in the first place if not for Idol.

Um, no.

She beat out 600-plus auditioners for the role--including Fantasia Barrino who won the American Idol the same year.

Is it possible that maybe she's just...that good as an up-and-coming actress?

 

[Darthphere]

Um, no.

She beat out 600-plus auditioners for the role--including Fantasia Barrino who won the American Idol the same year.

Is it possible that maybe she's just...that good as an up-and-coming actress?

Poppycock. Its her being on Idol that even prompted her even being in the running, and Fantasia is fugly, I wouldnt put her in a movie.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Poppycock. Its her being on Idol that even prompted her even being in the running, and Fantasia is fugly, I wouldnt put her in a movie.

Whatever. Effie is supposed to fugly. The fact that Fantasia looks like a dinosaur would have been inconsequential to the role. Face it: you're hating...and I don't think Anubis is the only one smoking dat good **** right now. LOL

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Whatever. Effie is supposed to fugly. The fact that Fantasia looks like a dinosaur would have been inconsequential to the role. Face it: you're hating...and I don't think Anubis is the only one smoking dat good **** right now. LOL

A few possibilities have arisen.

One, Fantasia is so ugly, they were afraid she'd kill ratings due to being that ugly.

Or two, the other girl gained the confidence from American Idol to actually compete, and given the fact that star power affects judgements (which is true in EVERY case. Even I am subject to it from time to time), that could have helped.

 

[Darthphere]

Whatever. Effie is supposed to fugly. The fact that Fantasia looks like a dinosaur would have been inconsequential to the role. Face it: you're hating...and I don't think Anubis is the only one smoking dat good **** right now. LOL

Its not hating, its being real. If she was never on Idol, she would not have gotten the role.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

A few possibilities have arisen.

One, Fantasia is so ugly, they were afraid she'd kill ratings due to being that ugly.

Looking like a Gila Monster or some winged dragon shouldn't have barred Fantasia from the opportunity. That's discrimination! lol

Or two, the other girl gained the confidence from American Idol to actually compete, and given the fact that star power affects judgements (which is true in EVERY case. Even I am subject to it from time to time), that could have helped.

Okay. I can see where such experiences could have influenced her rise. But I don't see it as the end-all to her success, since only a small segment of the American public watch American Idol--and it's obvious that the hype on her has gone waaaaay beyond what happened to her 3 or 4 years ago. She's hot now because she's talented (in my opinion).

And I still don't see where her fatness comes into play.