Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[terry78]

Looking like a Gila Monster or some winged dragon shouldn't have barred Fantasia from the opportunity. That's discrimination! lol

Oh no, you did'ent!

It burrrrnnssss ussss....the preciousssss!

 

[T'Jai]

it is pretty much all buzz casting in the Holly right now but the girl actually has the skills

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Its not hating, its being real. If she was never on Idol, she would not have gotten the role.

But by the same token, she could've been on Idol, gotten the role and still presented unprecedented levels of suckage or--at best--a forgettable performance (See Beyonce).

I can concede the fact that Idol may have been a stepping stone. But she's not standing on it now.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Oh no, you did'ent!

Yes.

Yes I did.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

it is pretty much all buzz casting in the Holly right now but the girl actually has the skills

Exactly.

It's not like the hype is unfounded or overrated...at least not yet.

 

[Darthphere]

Exactly.

It's not like the hype is unfounded or overrated...at least not yet.

This is me hating. Its already overrated.

 

[T'Jai]

Bill is a pretty damn gud director but there were a lot of egos on that set...

 

[Anubis]

Jennifer Hudson doesn't look all that bad. As a matter of fact she's pretty hot. Cushiony in all the right places. I'd totally do her.

But then again, I'd do Fantastia as well. I'm a sex addict.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Jennifer Hudson doesn't look all that bad. As a matter of fact she's pretty hot. Cushiony in all the right places. I'd totally do her.

But then again, I'd do Fantastia as well. I'm a sex addict.

I was with you until you mentioned Fantasia. I don't do Fraggle-Rocks. Just looking at her makes me impotent (K-Ci was clearly the ugliest one in Jodeci).

But she can sing her ass off though!

 

[La The Darkman]

Damn what anyone says that woman is sexy as hell to me. :heart:

 

[terry78]

I think that fact that Jennifer Hudson always has a smile on her face is what makes her attractive. Nothing beats a girl that's happy.

 

[Anubis]

That killer rack don't hurt either.

 

[terry78]

^If you wanna get all caveman about it, sure.

 

[Anubis]

well oouga booga to you too.

 

[Tropico]

You just KNOW Capt. Caveman was getting it EVERY night.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

^If you wanna get all caveman about it, sure.

You make it seem like that's crossed nobody's mind.

 

[terry78]

You make it seem like that's crossed nobody's mind.

I'm sure it has, but I'd like to sway from the mindset that that's all she's good for.

 

[Nokio]

Conversely, you RARELY see light skinned black men or half white 'black' men portrayed as 'black' heroes, be they live action or comics. They're usually dark skinned and bald. This is rooted in the (dark/threatening light/non threatening) symbolism that has become a part of advertising culture.

The Rock.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm sure it has, but I'd like to sway from the mindset that that's all she's good for.

I don't think anybody made that comment.

 

[La The Darkman]

You make a good point and I apologize--I wasn't deliberately trying to mislead anyone (I didn't have the comic in front of me when I posted that comment, but I remembered the quote).

However, my basic point remains: T'Challa considers American Society to be substandard and rife with cultural inadequacies. IMO, it is out of character for him to subscribe to this country's slang to express his feelings about a woman he cares about. Using it trivialized his intelligence and sophistication as a Monarch...and to me it was just an obvious effort to make the comic "hip" to black readers.

Do you agree with that assessment?

I agree somewhat, but you have to take in mind that this took place in a alternate reality...T'challa was also a shameless womanizer, a killer (cut off Sabertooth's head), and was far more open about how he felt about Ororo during House of M.

I'm with you on this.

As I mentioned, I've been collecting BP for many years now. And the concept of the two of them married in of itself is great--I have zero problem with the union. It's the way that it was executed that I thought left a lot to be desired.

Here's my gripe: Other high profile character marriages (like the aforementioned Reed/Susan, Pete/Mary Jane, Scott/Emma/Jean, etc.) are given months or years to incubate so fans can actually absorb the developments at a natural pace. So why were Marvel's two highest profile black characters denied this treatment? I felt this approach reduced them to basically an arranged marriage. True, there was some tiny precedent for their relationship under Priest's run, but not nearly enough to warrant a fast-track wedding. Why Quesada & Co. couldn't give Ororo and T'Challa's situation time to breathe like everyone else's is beyond me.

I agree I would have loved to have seen a year long courtship between the two, the characters fit perfectly together, I dare anyone to read the issues Priest wrote and say otherwise. Hudlin should have built on that for about a year or so. Taking time to do this would have killed atleast some of those stupid "They're only being married because they're both black" arguments.

Agreed to an extent.

With a few exception, I've actually never really had too much problem with the way Hudlin handles T'Challa himself...I think he "gets" him. I liked the arcs involving Falcon, Luke, Blade and the "Wild Kingdom" crossover. You know what's really funny? I actually thought Hudlin wrote Storm decently during that time period. Something has happened since then...and I don't recognize her right now.

See the thing is we HAVE seen storm act in this way before...Remember when she was thinking over if she wanted to marry Forge or not, at one point she was smiling in the rain acting like a young school girl because she was about to accept a marriage proposal from the man she loved. It's no different from how she's acting now, only T'challa didn't tell her to hit the bricks and run off with some evil blue chick.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I agree somewhat, but you have to take in mind that this took place in a alternate reality...T'challa was also a shameless womanizer, a killer (cut off Sabertooth's head), and was far more open about how he felt about Ororo during House of M.

Fair enough.

However, as Hudlin continues to Americanize, Urbanize and Ghettoize T'Challa, look for him to spill that kind of "flava" again one day...and next time it will be the 616 too.

I agree I would have loved to have seen a year long courtship between the two, the characters fit perfectly together, I dare anyone to read the issues Priest wrote and say otherwise. Hudlin should have built on that for about a year or so. Taking time to do this would have killed atleast some of those stupid "They're only being married because they're both black" arguments.

Eggggsactly.

I don't believe most fans had a problem with Storm marrying T'Challa (although quite a few had their hearts set on a ROLO situation with Logan), but the controversy came from the way it was handled. For most X-Men fans it was like "Who is this guy and where is he from?" And the whole "Let's get our most well-known black characters involved and engaged effective Black History Month" torqued off a lot of people (myself included).

That's like waiting until Hanukkah to marry Dr. Doom to some Jewish comic character. It was way too obvious, cliche...and well, predictably dumb.

See the thing is we HAVE seen storm act in this way before...Remember when she was thinking over if she wanted to marry Forge or not, at one point she was smiling in the rain acting like a young school girl because she was about to accept a marriage proposal from the man she loved. It's no different from how she's acting now, only T'challa didn't tell her to hit the bricks and run off with some evil blue chick.

I'm sorry, but Storm was never this sappy--even with Forge. Remember, after they returned after being marrooned for a while she kept her emotions in check--which prompted Forge to believe she had forgot about him. And even when he proposed to her, she mused over her feelings in a controled fashion. So much so that it made Forge doubt she'd even accept his proposal, which ultimately led to his hasty departure.

Interestingly enough, even Storm's best girlfriend Jean Grey was unsure of how Ororo would respond. And Jean's a telepath--one who was unable to answer Forge's queries. Why? Because Storm has always been guarded with her feelings. This current version of Storm...is somebody else who's acting off a different extreme.

 

[Miss Webb]

The Rock.

Yup. Half Samoan, and presented to the 'crossover' obsessives. Note how he gets a variety of roles, not just the 'urban black hero/ghetto/black comedy slot? Same old, same old.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Yup. Half Samoan, and presented to the 'crossover' obsessives. Note how he gets a variety of roles, not just the 'urban black hero/ghetto/black comedy slot? Same old, same old.

Um hmmm....

I was one of the few who was hoping he'd get cast for Superman at one time years ago.

I mean, if Dean Cain could do it...

 

[HoratioRome]

I agree with you--Victor is egotistical.

But he's also sophisticated with is ego...he has a purpose...a goal that it feeds. Let us remember that Dr. Doom is one of the most intelligent men of all (MU) time--in Reed Richards' range, mind you. He's met and communicated with every intelligent being out there--from the Phoenix, to Galactus, to every alien in between. Doom has literally seen it all. Therefore he knows better than anyone that there is no scientific evidence that suggests that blacks are inferior to other human races. He knows that's not true--and to suggest he suddenly believes that stupidity is really an insult to his intelligence. It trivializes his greatness.




A good writer knows how to make an antagonist's villainy potent without resorting to cliched stereotypes.

Sadly, Mr. Hudlin is not--and probably will never be--that good writer. It was blatantly obvious that he was "searching" for a way to get his readers to view Doom as T'Challa's enemy. Instead of creating some sophisticated way of causing a conflict what does he do? Go for the lowest denominator: the race card (TRANSLATION: "I really want my readers--who are mostly black--to hate Dr. Doom as my black protagonist's enemy, so I'll just make this classic villain insult most of my readers! Yeah! That'll get their goat! :rolleyes).

It's wack writing at its zenith.

well said agreed 100%. I hated Hudlin for the get go. what a hack

 

[HoratioRome]

You know I think that this is endemic of a greater problem at marvel which must go all the way to the top. There have been in the last few years too much mischaracterization of characters in ways that seem to be deliberately designed to shock the readers.

I think this is an editorial and ultimately a culture that must be coming from the editor in chief, namely Mr Joe Queseda. Something is off.

In the recent blockbuster civil war storyline, many of the primary characters are unrecognizable.

Recently Gwen Stacy has become through a retcon a bedhopper and a cheat.

Crystal of the Inhumans... same thing and situation as Gwen.

The Rawhide Kid who I grew up reading was recently revealed as being Gay. This is hard to wrap your mind around as this obviously is not how the character was presented in his debut or decades of continuity.

Thor decided a while back that he should rule the world and tell men what to do, although this was possibly the one that was best explained but probably hurt that book tremendously.

Doom himself actually kidnapped and threatened the Richards Children and with intent, worse he killed his lifelong love. This to me is way out of character for Doom.

And now to hear this from Black Panther, honestly I liked the early issues when Romita Jr was doing the art and I enjoyed the Black Centric storyline and dealing with historical realities but yeah letting it drip into characteriztions that are off shows a lack of creativity.

And here people may be the heart of the problem. Maybe the "House of Ideas" has run out of ideas. If everything has already been done what is left, basically the storylines that no one would write or were unwilling to write until now.

Clearly the powers that be at marvel think that these are the only stories left to be told.

So we should prepare ourselves for the desecration of many things once thought sacred at the house of ideas.

We live in a time where this kind of story is not really very far off;

"Susan Richards pregnant with the Submariner's child"!



Nuff said.

Again well said.
not to mention The total mischaracterization of SPIDER-MAN Marvel's flagshi[ character into a third rate joke.
Turning Tony Stark into possibly Marvel's worst villain (not even Doom has done what he's doing in civil war)
the TOTAL disprespect of REED RICHARD by turning him into a groupy and follower of Iron man
and on and on.

the rule seems to be that there is no continuity, no established characterrization,.. it is rather do as you please.

and JQ has to be held responsible