Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[LouFerignoDemon]

Again well said.
not to mention The total mischaracterization of SPIDER-MAN Marvel's flagshi[ character into a third rate joke.
Turning Tony Stark into possibly Marvel's worst villain (not even Doom has done what he's doing in civil war)
the TOTAL disprespect of REED RICHARD by turning him into a groupy and follower of Iron man
and on and on.

the rule seems to be that there is no continuity, no established characterrization,.. it is rather do as you please.

and JQ has to be held responsible

Once again, plenty of people have done worse than Stark, who are being hailed as good guys.

You know, Strange and Fury just to name a couple.

 

[HoratioRome]

Once again, plenty of people have done worse than Stark, who are being hailed as good guys.

You know, Strange and Fury just to name a couple.

I'm sorry but when did either Strange or Fury imprison perfectly innocent people just because they didn't go along with the plan. When has either recruited supervillains to hunt down and possibly kill said innocent people who btw are not only innocent, but were willing to risk their lives to help others.
finally when did either not only imprison these selfess heroes, but gave them a life sentence in the NEGATIVE ZONE?

please enlighten me.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm sorry but when did either Strange or Fury imprison perfectly innocent people just because they didn't go along with the plan. When has either recruited supervillains to hunt down and possibly kill said innocent people who btw are not only innocent, but were willing to risk their lives to help others.
finally when did either not only imprison these selfess heroes, but gave them a life sentence in the NEGATIVE ZONE?

please enlighten me.

Woo, I just knew this would start something.

Rather than just blindly starting an argument to wreck a thread, search around for the fifty bazillion times I've made comments about this before.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Again well said.
not to mention The total mischaracterization of SPIDER-MAN Marvel's flagshi[ character into a third rate joke.
Turning Tony Stark into possibly Marvel's worst villain (not even Doom has done what he's doing in civil war)
the TOTAL disprespect of REED RICHARD by turning him into a groupy and follower of Iron man
and on and on.

the rule seems to be that there is no continuity, no established characterrization,.. it is rather do as you please.

and JQ has to be held responsible

It's funny you mention that: I was just at the Comic shop last night and some of the guys there were saying the same thing: Reed and Tony have suddenly topped everyone's Most Hated Jerk-Face list, thanks to this whole Civil War portrayal.

I wonder if this was intentional...because I see a long road ahead in changing the reader base's perceptions of these characters now.

 

[Anubis]

Well, there was that time Fury shanghaied all those heroes and forced them to go fight a war in Latveria then had they're memories erased, only to bring down the combined might of hundreds of techno villains upon them for s**t they didn't even remember doing.

And Strange, well, he's been doing the shanghai deal for years.

Stark was always a *****e, and he'll always be a *****e. But that's neither here nor there, he's on the side of law, call him evil all you want, bring up the constitution too, fact is, he's on the side of the powers that be. And as far as they're concerned, he's in the right.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well, I think Invisible Woman said it best recently, where she likened what they're doing to the Nazi concentration camps.

Obviously T'Challa doesn't agree with it, and Wakanda is basically a neutral. His (and Storm's) recent actions in the U.S. though have clearly put them on Tony's bad side.

 

[Anubis]

I'd say it's more like what they're doing in Gitmo, or the Japanese Internment camps of WWII. They aren't exactly putting guys in ovens and gassing them in the shower. That's an over reaction. But it ain't exactly a bed and breakfast either.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Erm. I dunno....I can see your point...but I also think Tony and Reed's thinking are hypocritical and contradictory. Especially Tony--who is not a mutant or specifically gifted. It's easy for Rich White Boy to go along with a discriminatory government.

Ditto for Richards. The entire principle is wrong IMO. But being white and priveleged they're not going to see it from the same perspective as a T'Challa or a Storm...or any other mutant/gifted hero that has dealt with race and bigoted prejudice.

 

[Darthphere]

I've said it a million times, the only out of character portrayal is that of Reed, and even thats iffy, considering the Wacky FF thread. The unmasking IMO is in character. It exemplifies that with great power....blah blah blah.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Erm. I dunno....I can see your point...but I also think Tony and Reed's thinking are hypocritical and contradictory. Especially Tony--who is not a mutant or specifically gifted. It's easy for Rich White Boy to go along with a discriminatory government.

Ditto for Richards. The entire principle is wrong IMO. But being white and priveleged they're not going to see it from the same perspective as a T'Challa or a Storm...or any other mutant/gifted hero that has dealt with race and bigoted prejudice.

How is it hypocritical or contradictory?

Tony is superpowered. And definitely isn't the, "Since I'm rich, I'll agree with the government" type. He's more of the "Since I'm rich, I can do what I want, when I want, who I want!" type.

However, I doubt them being white and rich really gives them such a different perspective, as much as who they are, and how they think based not on their financial and color backgrounds, but high levels of genius.

And as for T'Challa? His skin color matters not, his perspective would be WAAAY more different than Tony's based on the fact T'Challa is a king. If anything, he should view the government as something possibly trying to help the people.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

How is it hypocritical or contradictory?

Tony is superpowered. And definitely isn't the, "Since I'm rich, I'll agree with the government" type. He's more of the "Since I'm rich, I can do what I want, when I want, who I want!" type.

However, I doubt them being white and rich really gives them such a different perspective, as much as who they are, and how they think based not on their financial and color backgrounds, but high levels of genius.

And as for T'Challa? His skin color matters not, his perspective would be WAAAY more different than Tony's based on the fact T'Challa is a king. If anything, he should view the government as something possibly trying to help the people.

It's hypocritical in that they are supporting and empowering the very problem that so many of their peers in the superhero community have faced all their lives. They can't relate to it, nor the impact it is having on others. It's the principle that's wrong...and they're going at great lengths--even deaths--to prove it's validity.

They're like uber-rich Republicans...but even more out of touch.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's hypocritical in that they are supporting and empowering the very problem that so many of their peers in the superhero community have faced all their lives. They can't relate to it, nor the impact it is having on others. It's the principle that's wrong...and they're going at great lengths--even deaths--to prove it's validity.

They're like uber-rich Republicans...but even more out of touch.

And that problem is?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

And that problem is?

You must be Republican. LOL

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

You must be Republican. LOL

I'm not even from America. But the question is the most important point. We can feel something's wrong, we can point fingers, but the problem must be defined.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I've said it a million times, the only out of character portrayal is that of Reed, and even thats iffy, considering the Wacky FF thread. The unmasking IMO is in character. It exemplifies that with great power....blah blah blah.

i dunno.. i thought the recent fan 4 issue put a good basis to his reasoning.. a mathmatical one..

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm not even from America. But the question is the most important point. We can feel something's wrong, we can point fingers, but the problem must be defined.

Discrimination and prejudice based on being "different".

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's not because they are different.

If it were because they are different, and that alone is the reason, then I'd agree. But such is not the case.

 

[Darthphere]

i dunno.. i thought the recent fan 4 issue put a good basis to his reasoning.. a mathmatical one..

As did I, but other than that, its been pretty questionable.

 

[Darthphere]

By the way, wheres the roundtable?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

As did I, but other than that, its been pretty questionable.

well if you relate it all back to him fearing the greater evil... and he sees civil war as the lesser one... it kidna makes sense.. in a way it's kinda interesting... Reed loves discovering the unknown.. but at the same time (esp in this case) it's his greatest fear

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

By the way, wheres the roundtable?

On your face!

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It's not because they are different.

If it were because they are different, and that alone is the reason, then I'd agree. But such is not the case.

Well, I disagree with that assessment, but that's fine. We're all entitled to our own interpretations of this war.

 

[Darthphere]

well if you relate it all back to him fearing the greater evil... and he sees civil war as the lesser one... it kidna makes sense.. in a way it's kinda interesting... Reed loves discovering the unknown.. but at the same time (esp in this case) it's his greatest fear

The thing you have to realize is, that reasoning was given after the fact, after Reed had presented at least a dozen other reasons.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Well, I disagree with that assessment, but that's fine. We're all entitled to our own interpretations of this war.

sorry, but i don't see how this war could be based off of any form of discrimination... its based off rules, safety and regulation.. nothing more... though certain events.. might and single person actions have lead to some discrimatory events (see black panther) other then that.. the only discriminatory thing ive seen is just the general public bashing heroes..

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The thing you have to realize is, that reasoning was given after the fact, after Reed had presented at least a dozen other reasons.

o i know, but i don't dwell on the past... everyone has the ability in them to "act out of character" in extreme times... we just didn't have a valid reason for reed to be doing so until now.. and now in my book, its fixed and explained.. so i'm content, if only they could do the same for the real reason gwen slept with norman...