Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[X-Maniac]

Well, a comic with low sales doesn't mean he's a poor character, it just means the writing and stories are poor. The concept of an African from a secret advanced civilisation with strength derived partly from a herb and weaponry based on vibranium is something that could work really well.

If in a movie, they may have to be careful about Black Panther seeming to be a hybrid of Batman, Catwoman and Wolverine (comparisons with his vibranium suit and 'anti-metal' claws), but the idea of an advanced civilisation beneath an African village would work great on film.

It would need an epic storyline, something big and powerful. T'Challa comes to America to find Storm and Forge to save the dying civilisation of Wakanda whose technology has been stolen by a US terror group to bring about mass destruction.

 

[spider-jide]

1)
2) Black Panther isn't strong enough on his own. His comic book sales are terrible and have been terrible from the start. His book couldn't even muster 70k initially. It has been on a decline since issue 1.

Feb 05 Black Panther #1 - 69,930
Mar 05 Black Panther #2 - 47,533 ( -32.0%)
Apr 05 Black Panther #3 - 44,925 ( -5.5%)
May 05 Black Panther #4 - 40,804 ( -9.2%)
Jun 05 Black Panther #5 - 37,401 ( -8.1%)
Jul 05 Black Panther #6 - 35,256 ( -5.7%)
6 mnth ( n/a )
1 year ( n/a )
2 year (+123.5%)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe/msg/b92ae264cb569862?hl=en

I mean....it could be doing worst...but it is number 58 out of 100. So it isn't like the book is that popular. It isn't even in the top 30. It can't be more obvious that Black Panther isn't a very viable book...and would be an even less viable movie, if they keep T'Challa in Africa. I didn't see people lining up to see Hotel Rwanda...so I wouldn't expect T'Challa to be any more of a winner with the crowd.

First of all, you cant compare hotel Rwanda to a black panther movie, they're 2 completely different movies, not to mention the former being quite depressing.

As for the BP comics doing bad sales figures, so what?? Overall Marvel havn't been doing that great in general. Anybody who has an understanding of BP knows that it is clear for a good enough movie to me made based on the character. Hire a decent scriptwriter and director and there shouldn't be any problems. BP's character and premise is different and challenges teh perceptions of audiences and any stereotypical views one may have of Africa. I dont feel like highlighting what is so special about wakanda and BP himself but to sa he's not strong enough o carry a movie is something I completely disagree with, BP is more than capable and if done right, his movie could end up being better than most of Marvel's better movies and there aren't many of those I might add.

 

[Bluefire]

Hallelujah. Finally someone says it.

glad some agrees with me. oh, and i made a mistake on that part where i put [not sarcasm] i was being VERY sarcastic regarding the so called "basic" personalities of those x-men i mentioned.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It would need an epic storyline, something big and powerful. T'Challa comes to America to find Storm and Forge to save the dying civilisation of Wakanda whose technology has been stolen by a US terror group to bring about mass destruction.

Melikes that concept...

 

[Arach Knight]

Did I say Black Panther had bad writing? I just said he is an unpopular character. I backed this up by showing that his books are not fairing so well. Also, I don't know where you've been, but for the past three months, Marvel has been kicking DC's ass. Not only has Marvel been selling more books, they have been making more money. Marvel also has more books in the top 20. Though the number one bok has bounced between DC and Marvel (currently DC hold the position thanks to All Star Batman & Robin), Marvel has still been the king of books sold and dollars made.

Anyways, I personally would love to see a Black Panther movie. With the Avengers, or solo, I would see it. I am an African American male. As stereotypical as it sounds, I don't think the black community does enough or has enough, to make a positive and uplifting image for itself. We are the lowest rank in this countries academid system. We have the highest teen pregnancy rate. We have the highest number of people 21 and below, in prison (though I could chalk some of that up to racism). I have no problem with seeing a black character being portrayed as something more than another character in a movie like Belly (though I really like that movie). However, despite my best hopes, I know society. you can be as ignorant to reality as you want about what will and won't work, but i've seen enough of the worlds bad side to know what's real.

His name is T'Challa, he is an African Prince and his name is Black Panther. Right off the bat, people will b expecting him to be in a loin cloth, herding animals in a jungle (all stereotype, since nobody knows how beautiful African cities truly are). Then, you have the fact that his name is Black Panther. Granted Stan Lee and Kirby created him before Huey P. Newton ever formed the Black Panther Party for Self Defense, most people won't, know that. So now he is going to seem like a black militant character, thus alienating an audience. So you can pretend like we live in some happy go lucky world where people are smarter than i'm giving them credit for. In the mean time, i'll stick to the reality of it all. T'Challa, on his own, in Africa=box office mediocrity at best.

 

[spider-jide]

Did I say Black Panther had bad writing? I just said he is an unpopular character. I backed this up by showing that his books are not fairing so well. Also, I don't know where you've been, but for the past three months, Marvel has been kicking DC's ass. Not only has Marvel been selling more books, they have been making more money. Marvel also has more books in the top 20. Though the number one bok has bounced between DC and Marvel (currently DC hold the position thanks to All Star Batman & Robin), Marvel has still been the king of books sold and dollars made.

Did you say BP had bad writing? No but you most definately implied it. You said he's weak on is own,how so? Clearly it boils down to the writing not being as good compared to another comic that may sell better. Then you said he's an unpopular character, well if he's so unpopular, why? He's been around for longer than most, could it be because the writing isn't as good?

So? Whats your point? Marvel's been making more money than DC? And? The fact still remains that regardless of how well Marvel are doing as opposed to DC, their standard of story telling hasn't been that great at all. I'm not impresed by you measuring Marvel upto DC because I dont care about DC, I care about Marvel and as is stands, Marvel are barely entertaining me these days.

Anyways, I personally would love to see a Black Panther movie. With the Avengers, or solo, I would see it. I am an African American male. As stereotypical as it sounds, I don't think the black community does enough or has enough, to make a positive and uplifting image for itself.

What are you talking about? What does improving on the black community have to do with creating an entertaining BP movie? You do realise nobody is expecting spider-man type figures at the BO? You do realise that dont you? So what has this got to do with creating a generally good and entertaing movie that is able to make back its money and of course a profit?

We are the lowest rank in this countries academid system. We have the highest teen pregnancy rate. We have the highest number of people 21 and below, in prison (though I could chalk some of that up to racism). I have no problem with seeing a black character being portrayed as something more than another character in a movie like Belly (though I really like that movie). However, despite my best hopes, I know society. you can be as ignorant to reality as you want about what will and won't work, but i've seen enough of the worlds bad side to know what's real.

Somebody has clearly crapped on your dougnut. Thanks for the crash course on black community stats but it is completely unecessary and has nothing to do with the subject at hand. With that said, all the stats you mentioned, you feel that this will hinder from a good and sucessful BP movie? Lol, ok whatever, "Mr I'm black too btw" if anyone is comming off as ignorant, its you.

His name is T'Challa, he is an African Prince and his name is Black Panther. Right off the bat, people will b expecting him to be in a loin cloth, herding animals in a jungle (all stereotype, since nobody knows how beautiful African cities truly are).

You dont know what people will be expecting. People who are aware of the character no otherwise and guess what, there's such a thing called marketing. What you should be discussing is how the studio making this movie needs to focus on the right vision for this movie and adhereing to the source material so not only will the movie be good but they can market the movie effectively, giving people a taste of what the movie and the character involved is about.
Your stance and perception of society is accutare to a degree but is entirely your own point of view. Regardless of the stats you posted, believe it or not there are plenty of educated black people out there who aren't criminals or act out roles of being bums and the decay of society. Either way, like I said before, your stats have no bearing on producing an entertaining BP movie.

Then, you have the fact that his name is Black Panther. Granted Stan Lee and Kirby created him before Huey P. Newton ever formed the Black Panther Party for Self Defense, most people won't, know that.

Thats one of the key factors of marketing, to inform.

So now he is going to seem like a black militant character, thus alienating an audience. So you can pretend like we live in some happy go lucky world where people are smarter than i'm giving them credit for. In the mean time, i'll stick to the reality of it all. T'Challa, on his own, in Africa=box office mediocrity at best.

This last part of your post makes you look like a pre-judging, ignorant "realist". You clearly have too much information at your disposal but dont know how to process and use it under the right terms.

 

[Neto Magnus]

Hey, interesting essay, Lighty!

and sorry guys for not reading all the replies.(i'm on doody dial-up right now)

The rumored Storm movie Spin-off: Marvel's answer to a DC Wonder Woman film?

Honestly, I would love to see a Storm movie. I mean, she's one of my favorite X-men or better yet one of my favorite female characters ever. But as for Helle Berry...I don't know. It's not that she's a bad actress, I mean she's beautiful but it's just that she doesn't have that spark or strong presence to be a super hero. She kinda brings out the 'diva' or 'ghetto-ness' in some of her movies. Maybe that's why that Jinx movie never got anywhere. I dunno, it all really depends on how well she does and redeems herself in X3. If anything, I think the rumored 3rd spin-off would be better suited for a Fox tv series. A show starring Patrick Stewart and the school. Kinda like the O.C. meets Smallville. And cast a bunch of hot teenagers and the ratings will go through the roof. And and...Gambit can be the main character. You know, the new kid in town.

What realistic obstacles lie in the way of these productions?

I don't think that there are that many obstacles into making black superhero films just as long as its the positive black ppl making them. Like for example, John Singleton who is one of my fav filmmakers and who is making the Luke Cage movie. Now we all know that it's gonna be a 'hip hop' movie but I hope that they don't have to 'dumb' it down so the young audience can enjoy it. I think it woulda been better if that movie actually took place in the 70s and 80s to give it more distance from other comic movies. Sorta pay homage to the blaxploitation films. But whatever, if the Cage movie is half as good as Four Brothers, then thats progress.

The rumored X3 relationship between Storm & Wolverine: Opening doors or closing them?

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. I don't think interracial banging is that controversial anymore. If anything I really don't see that 'relationship' going anywhere. I think that ROLO is just gonna have one night of hot, 'wet' & angry-I-haven't-been-laid-in-awhile-sex. It's probably just another Fox gimmick(sp?) to draw more audiences. I bet Halle and Hugh will be the main marketing ploy too.

Do you believe that Halle Berry and Wesley Snipes are unfairly singled out by fanboys for their complaints for better treatment by Hollywood?

For who's complaints? The actor's or fanboys'? Either way I think the 'race card' will always be an played on minority actors.

Are current black actors/superheroes overshadowed by their co-stars?

hmm...I guess it depends on the story or context. If it's a movie like 'Braveheart' then yes. If it's a movie liek 'Glory' then no.

What do you think the future holds for these characters in comics, video games, toys, film and other franchises?

Well, that's a tough question. Racism will ALWAYS exist because it is human nature. But as far as the mainstream media, it has changed for the good over the years but theres one thing I fear...that is: it might go the wrong way. I don't want to get into detail because I'd be writing all night about this subject but I can sum it all up into two words and you can ponder and judge for yourselves..."JIGGY" & "IZZLE".

.

 

[tamron]

BP's current sales have been down b/c the current series is a psuedo-reboot to the character. It always takes a little while to find a character's voice and hook an audience when you do that.

Sales were very solid during the Christopher Priest run, which IMHO, should be the basis of a BP script. He really made T'Challa a player, emphasizing the fact that he's the leader of a country first, superhero second. To me, a good BP movie would be kind of like a Tom Clancy novel, a superhero film with an emphasis on politics. That's essential, because it's what makes BP different from any other superhero.

I just hope it's not an origin movie. They should just start with T'Challa in play, ruling Wakanda.

 

[Arach Knight]

Overall Marvel havn't been doing that great in general

So? Whats your point? Marvel's been making more money than DC?

I believe you answered your own question in your previous statement. You brought up Marvel's status as a comapny, and fact of the matter is that they are the number one comic book publisher in market share and dollars made. If you didn't want to have an answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

Did you say BP had bad writing? No but you most definately implied it.

I implied it? Really now? Because from where i'm sitting, it seems like I infered exactly what the hell I said, and nothing else. I said the book has poor sales. There are a myriad of reasons as to why that could be the case, but I made no such mention of why. I simply said that the book IS selling poorly. And considering that I provided the figurs to back it, you have no further argument. You are just putting words in my mouth to suit your purpose. So don't go saying what I implied. I bluntly said, Black Panther's book has been on a decline. This is indicative of a lack of popularity. Neither of my statements is untrue. So get off it please...


-So you expect Marvel to come up with a magical campaign that shows the difference between their Black Panther, which came first, and a civil rights group? Nothing says stupid like piss off an entire community. "Hey two Jewish guys made this character before Huey P. Newton ever made up his Black Panther party. We're original. Who cares about the trials and tribulations of Fred Hampton and Huey P. Newton...we were first" yeah...I don't see that bowling over well. And thank God for Marvel, you aren't in charge of anything they do. It would be a marketing debacle to even attempt to approach this little historical tidbit.

-Maybe you aren't black Spider-Jide. But I am. I get tired of us only being rappers, thugs or saved from a horrible life in the ghetto by some saint who swoops in to make life better. Black's are rarely portrayed as strong characters. That is how I think Black Panther could be helpful. He is one of the few mainstream heroes (well sort of mainstream) that are even Black or African. I like to see positive reinforcment. And I think Black Panther could do that under the right circumstances. Also, if I were you, I would avoid trying to trivialize my ethnicitiy with lame "oh i'm black too btw" statements. That is perhaps the most ignornat thing i've seen stated in this thread. And last time I checked, this thread was about black characters and their marketability. If you can't deal, then don't be here.

-Spider-Jide, I typically don't have any problem with you. We are both Spidey fans....and comic readers. That gives us at least a little positive starting ground. But I don't need your crap with you trying to come insult me and make assertions that are made on a false basis. If you have a problem with me, more power to you. But don't be belligerent and attack me out of the blue. I'm simply providing my opinion on things. I'm also pointing out facts. If you don't think people have a poor perception of black people in this world, I kindly direct you to hurricane Katraina. All of the stories that show black survivors, use the word "looting" where as white people are simply "looking for food." Get over it. People are racists and stereotypical in their view on life. I don't think there is much else to be said on the subject matter.

 

[spider-jide]

I believe you answered your own question in your previous statement. You brought up Marvel's status as a comapny, and fact of the matter is that they are the number one comic book publisher in market share and dollars made. If you didn't want to have an answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.




I implied it? Really now? Because from where i'm sitting, it seems like I infered exactly what the hell I said, and nothing else. I said the book has poor sales. There are a myriad of reasons as to why that could be the case, but I made no such mention of why. I simply said that the book IS selling poorly. And considering that I provided the figurs to back it, you have no further argument. You are just putting words in my mouth to suit your purpose. So don't go saying what I implied. I bluntly said, Black Panther's book has been on a decline. This is indicative of a lack of popularity. Neither of my statements is untrue. So get off it please...


-So you expect Marvel to come up with a magical campaign that shows the difference between their Black Panther, which came first, and a civil rights group? Nothing says stupid like piss off an entire community. "Hey two Jewish guys made this character before Huey P. Newton ever made up his Black Panther party. We're original. Who cares about the trials and tribulations of Fred Hampton and Huey P. Newton...we were first" yeah...I don't see that bowling over well. And thank God for Marvel, you aren't in charge of anything they do. It would be a marketing debacle to even attempt to approach this little historical tidbit.

-Maybe you aren't black Spider-Jide. But I am. I get tired of us only being rappers, thugs or saved from a horrible life in the ghetto by some saint who swoops in to make life better. Black's are rarely portrayed as strong characters. That is how I think Black Panther could be helpful. He is one of the few mainstream heroes (well sort of mainstream) that are even Black or African. I like to see positive reinforcment. And I think Black Panther could do that under the right circumstances. Also, if I were you, I would avoid trying to trivialize my ethnicitiy with lame "oh i'm black too btw" statements. That is perhaps the most ignornat thing i've seen stated in this thread. And last time I checked, this thread was about black characters and their marketability. If you can't deal, then don't be here.

-Spider-Jide, I typically don't have any problem with you. We are both Spidey fans....and comic readers. That gives us at least a little positive starting ground. But I don't need your crap with you trying to come insult me and make assertions that are made on a false basis. If you have a problem with me, more power to you. But don't be belligerent and attack me out of the blue. I'm simply providing my opinion on things. I'm also pointing out facts. If you don't think people have a poor perception of black people in this world, I kindly direct you to hurricane Katraina. All of the stories that show black survivors, use the word "looting" where as white people are simply "looking for food." Get over it. People are racists and stereotypical in their view on life. I don't think there is much else to be said on the subject matter.

For the record, I am black and secodly, it wasn't my intetion to purposely insult you, if I did, my bad. I'd like to adhere to lightning's wishes and keep things civil. I agree with you on the general perception of how black people are portrayed and this whole katrina incident as you mentioned is a primary example that confirms such perceptions. However, its my belief that a good enough and entertaining BP movie can be made with the right care and handeling. As for the BP group, I wasn't saying the marketing for the movie should deliberately contrast and diffrenciate itself from the BP party so blatantly, I meant that when advertising/marketing the movie they should emphasise who/what BP is about, his story and mythos. The BP group doesn't have to be mentioned at all. If done right and handled with care, audiences would/should understand that this movie will have nothing to do wih the BP group.

 

[Arach Knight]

For the record, I am black and secodly, it wasn't my intetion to purposely insult you, if I did, my bad. I'd like to adhere to lightning's wishes and keep things civil. I agree with you on the general perception of how black people are portrayed and this whole katrina incident as you mentioned is a primary example that confirms such perceptions. However, its my belief that a good enough and entertaining BP movie can be made with the right care and handeling. As for the BP group, I wasn't saying the marketing for the movie should deliberately contrast and diffrenciate itself from the BP party so blatantly, I meant that when advertising/marketing the movie they should emphasise who/what BP is about, his story and mythos. The BP group doesn't have to be mentioned at all. If done right and handled with care, audiences would/should understand that this movie will have nothing to do wih the BP group.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to give such a knee jerk reaction. I mean, this is an open discussion and opinions are likely to clash. I just didn't like being targeted for harassment because of my opinion. Like I said, i'd love to see a Black Panther movie...they would just have to do it very well for any kind of marketable success....

 

[X-Maniac]

It would need an epic storyline, something big and powerful. T'Challa comes to America to find Storm and Forge to save the dying civilisation of Wakanda whose technology has been stolen by a US terror group to bring about mass destruction.

The more i think about it, the more I love my own idea. It includes Africa, but also includes the required US cities to make it relate to most people's everyday lives. Setting it entirely in Africa would not work, in my view.

 

[X-Maniac]

The one thing that bugs me is a title for the movie. I think it should have a wider title than the name of one character like Storm or Black Panther.

Halle's role and performance in X3 would be an indication of whether she would be the right person to include.

 

[terry78]

If it's just Black Panther, Black Panther should suit it just fine. If they can create a big fan base for him by opening up a new series, and at least getting some merchandising out there treating it like a blockbuster a la Batman, I think it'd have a shot.

 

[Diamondhead]

All I can say is that black men and black women needs to get together more than ever!

It wasn’t so long ago that white men was raping black women and lynch the black men for having whistling at a white woman.

The white man just hasn’t paid enough due for their mistreatment of the black race yet


And now that black women are reaching and striving for a better place in societies
It is simply not the time for the white men to embark on a campaign teaching the black women to be with them instead
Especially that black men needs the support of their strong black women more than ever.

Therefore I think it was way too soon for Hollywood to come out with movies such as “guess who”. It was simply way too soon for that.

Black men needs to do their best to be with their black women and not so willingly to hand over their black sisters to the white man just in the name of being “cool”.
Because white men aren’t like that at all, and they still have never agree to see their women with any other race than Caucasian men only.

This huge campaign that you see on the media nowadays teaching black women to be with white men instead, is not helping the black community’s relation at all
And some black women are aiding and abating, even turning out to be traitor to their race by saying “black men just aren’t good enough for them”
Just like rumor has it quoted by Serena Williams!

The point is that black people needs to be together in other to grow stronger.
Getting the most popular hero or heroin at marvel to end up with anything other than their own race is not the way to go
Especially when there are not even enough of them to go around in the first place.

 

[tamron]

And some black women are aiding and abating, even turning out to be traitor to their race by saying “black men just aren’t good enough for them”
Just like rumor has it quoted by Serena Williams!

Serena never said that. It was a lie, she issued a press release denying it as soon as that started. She supposedly said it on a tv show, but there's no tape of it, anywhere. But some black women, like Maia Campbell, have said they don't date brothas. Just felt the need to defend Serena, b/c she's not one of them.

 

[Minisinoo]

Hmmm.

The very title of this thread "Black Knights" contrasted with it's subtitle, "Marvel's Mutants of Color" made me raise my eyebrows. Marvel has "mutants of color" who aren't black, y'know. The Buckskin curtain exists, too, and is, if possible, even worse.

Can any of you name ten top black American actors?

Yes, of course you can. So can I, and I'm not black.

Can any of you name ten top American Indian actors without running to Google?

I didn't think so. Even I'd have trouble with that, without resorting to naming Canadians -- even though I'm Indian.

We're the invisible minority in the U.S. (less so in Canada), though Hollywood was built on Indian land. Movies about Indians are more likely to be Dances With Wolves than Smoke Signals, but if you want to know what we're like today, you need to see the latter, not the former.

This in NO way is to say that blacks are fairly treated. They're not. But they're not alone in being overlooked, stereotyped and shoved into the background. Marvel has created five Indian mutants (John and Jimmy Proudstar, Dani Moonstar, Forge and Shaman), plus a few others that have floated in and out. None of them have been handled much better. And none of them showed up as a named character in an X-Man film. (The native girl in Xavier's office in X1 may have been meant to be Dani, but she wasn't listed in the credits.)

So in fighting for fair and varied representation of black characters, don't forget the rest of the "mutants of color," 'kay?

 

[Arach Knight]

That is a very well raised point that holds a lot of truth. Native Americans among one of the chiefly ill treated races historically (by my measure, it is blacks, jews, native americans and mexicans....not in any specific order). There are plenty of other minorities out there. The struggle between black and white or black and wrong....just happens to be a globally well known struggle. But this is a thread about minorities. Or rather, "mutants of color" so I don't see why conversation about other minorities would be unacceptable.

 

[terry78]

Though I think Lightning chose black mutants specifically when he started the thread, but it could be expanded upon most definitely.

 

[X-Maniac]

Hmmm.

The very title of this thread "Black Knights" contrasted with it's subtitle, "Marvel's Mutants of Color" made me raise my eyebrows. Marvel has "mutants of color" who aren't black, y'know. The Buckskin curtain exists, too, and is, if possible, even worse.

Can any of you name ten top black American actors?

Yes, of course you can. So can I, and I'm not black.

Can any of you name ten top American Indian actors without running to Google?

I didn't think so. Even I'd have trouble with that, without resorting to naming Canadians -- even though I'm Indian.

We're the invisible minority in the U.S. (less so in Canada), though Hollywood was built on Indian land. Movies about Indians are more likely to be Dances With Wolves than Smoke Signals, but if you want to know what we're like today, you need to see the latter, not the former.

This in NO way is to say that blacks are fairly treated. They're not. But they're not alone in being overlooked, stereotyped and shoved into the background. Marvel has created five Indian mutants (John and Jimmy Proudstar, Dani Moonstar, Forge and Shaman), plus a few others that have floated in and out. None of them have been handled much better. And none of them showed up as a named character in an X-Man film. (The native girl in Xavier's office in X1 may have been meant to be Dani, but she wasn't listed in the credits.)

So in fighting for fair and varied representation of black characters, don't forget the rest of the "mutants of color," 'kay?

I think the general 'trigger' for this thread was the Halle-hating phenomenon that has happened on these boards, so it was focused primarily on black people.

But, yes, the American Indians are also worth of discussion. By the way, Shaman is not a mutant, he is quite literally a shaman who has magical powers. Talisman is one you didn't mention - i believe she was a mutant, whose power was to tap into environmental magical energies that existed naturally around her. Thunderbird was a good character in the comics, though he didn't last long. The current Thunderbird isn't even an American Indian, he's from Nepal and has fire powers so the codename they used for him is very inappropriate.

 

[OutcryX]

Risque is/was Native American. cool character that was Proudstar's girlfriend...until they killed her

 

[terry78]

They also killed off Sunfire in Exiles.

 

[OutcryX]

They also killed off Sunfire in Exiles.

They...killed...Sunfire...AGAIN!?!?! Twice in 6 months, thats gotta be a record

 

[X-Maniac]

They also killed off Sunfire in Exiles.

What does the Japanese mutant Sunfire have to do with all this?????

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Hmmm.

The very title of this thread "Black Knights" contrasted with it's subtitle, "Marvel's Mutants of Color" made me raise my eyebrows. Marvel has "mutants of color" who aren't black, y'know. The Buckskin curtain exists, too, and is, if possible, even worse.

Can any of you name ten top black American actors?

Yes, of course you can. So can I, and I'm not black.

Can any of you name ten top American Indian actors without running to Google?

I didn't think so. Even I'd have trouble with that, without resorting to naming Canadians -- even though I'm Indian.

We're the invisible minority in the U.S. (less so in Canada), though Hollywood was built on Indian land. Movies about Indians are more likely to be Dances With Wolves than Smoke Signals, but if you want to know what we're like today, you need to see the latter, not the former.

This in NO way is to say that blacks are fairly treated. They're not. But they're not alone in being overlooked, stereotyped and shoved into the background. Marvel has created five Indian mutants (John and Jimmy Proudstar, Dani Moonstar, Forge and Shaman), plus a few others that have floated in and out. None of them have been handled much better. And none of them showed up as a named character in an X-Man film. (The native girl in Xavier's office in X1 may have been meant to be Dani, but she wasn't listed in the credits.)

So in fighting for fair and varied representation of black characters, don't forget the rest of the "mutants of color," 'kay?

Goodmorning Minisinoo,

As someone who's father is white and mother's black/cuban I'm pretty well versed in what it means to be a "man of colour".

That said, the term "Black Knights" was actually meant to be a metaphor of sorts and not to be taken literally. That is why the subtitle mentions "Mutants Of Color"--which means that the discussion is meant to expand to all non-caucasian cultures.

In fact, the list of users invited to this discussion via PM was comprised of people from different backgrounds and countries, so it was never meant to strictly focus on the "Black" race per se, since the plight we face is mirrored in the treatment of other cultures. In the very first post, other mutants of different races were alluded to, i.e. Cecilia Reyes who is of Spanish descent.

So by all means--feel free to expand the conversation to other minorities as long as it pertains to the general topic at hand. I'd love to see a discussion developed on Moonstar, Forge in this thread here, and others as they too have been sorely neglected by Hollywood.

Thanks....

Caliph