Days of Future Past Matthew Vaughn Is NOT Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

[JP]

Totally agree JP. Magneto is interesting because he's a sympathetic villain, at least in XMFC. We see his roots, we see his struggles with good and evil. And he DOES have the chance to be good, he just doesn't take it sadly. Charles is the hero for sure, but like you said their parallels can't be ignored. I also think that one of the reasons this duo is so incredibly fascinating is that unlike the Joker and Batman who will fight each other forever, Erik and Charles care deeply about each other--as it's been suggested countless times regarding XMFC, perhaps even love each other. Their ideals are just more important to them, which makes their story incredibly tragic.

I agree about Charles too. I never cared about him in the old movies because he was BORING. Saintly and preachy and detached from battle. When they introduced him as a bit of a dbag in X3 it felt out of place and not the right kind of flaw for the Stewart character they had established. "I don't have to explain myself, least of all to you" is probably the most horrible line in the trilogy because it's so out of nowhere and out of character.

XMFC's Charles' flaws are much more relatable and realistic. He's naive but arrogant, the latter probably a bit of a motivator for him taking on the mentor role as he kind of assumes he knows everything (seriously, his smug face when Erik asks what he knows about him speaks volumes). It will be interesting to see him in the sequel. He's got quite a fire to walk through, and it'd be nice to see him break down or just lose it on someone.

First Class was definitely the birth of a villain. I think there is a bit of confusion because many viewers felt torn about which side they'd take, which is precisely the emotion the movie wanted people to have. Neither Erik nor Charles is entirely wrong, but neither one is entirely right. Erik is right when it comes to his opinion on how humankind will handle learning of mutants. He's wrong in his methods of dealing with it. Charles is wrong in his belief that humans will accept them, but right in the way he wants peace.

Completely agree!

I don’t know—I’ve gotten the impression that a lot of fans think that Magneto’s the hero of First Class. And I like Erik, but it’s annoying when Magneto gets away with murder and it’s argued and justified like crazy on the boards, but when Xavier rolls his eyes at another character, he’s condemned and called an a-hole. Kind of hypocritical.

Well, I'm actually glad that you understand both sides. But I honestly don't see this at all. I mean, this is a movie with fictional characters, so people will feel eager to discuss these characters in depth and INCLUDING their flaws. Calling Xavier an a-hole (and discussing all the reasons why) is simply pointing out a part of who he is as written in decades of comics and in these films.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Yep. Both Xavier and Magneto are manipulative and want change. But they're different means of manipulation (Magneto prefers metal ) and very different changes. It's been that way in the films because it's been that way in the comics. Xavier's a good guy, but his flaws are important in defining who he is. Why? Because most Marvel characters have multi-dimensional personalities; they're rarely just good and just bad. And that's why these characters are so relatable. I'm a huge Xavier fan - comics, Stewart and McAvoy - and I embrace the fact that he's manipulative. I'd probably not like him if he were just some telepathic saint.

As for Magneto, I don't get where anyone on this forum relates to him as a hero. He does terrible things, though they're motivated by justified anger. In a sense, though, he did save the X-Men's lives in the latest film. If he hadn't been at Cuba, the mutants would have been nuked. That's sort of heroic. But what he did wrong was target the missiles back at the humans. That wasn't very nice. But it rings true to his character, which is the villain that's understandable.

One thing that's consistent through every incarnation of the X-Men is that the lines are often blurred between what's right and what's wrong.

Xavier and Erik are exactly what they should've been in First Class.

 

[Mulholland-Jr]

Maybe they'll release it next to Jack the Giant Killer

Singer will never catch a break

 

[JP]

Magneto has all the traits of a dictator, and if he and the Brotherhood dominated the world he would rule it as a dictator. It's quite simple, really, and I see nothing "sympathetic" about a guy being another Mao, another Stalin.

See, you're using your unreasonable hatred for a character to dismiss what people like about him. Magneto is a VILLAIN. He's the bad guy. However, saying his motivations aren't relatable is like saying Xavier's motivations aren't relatable.

But still a lot of people left the cinemas thinking of him as a hero, not a villain.

No, this is just some story you've concocted to make yourself feel better about James McAvoy not getting all the praise and glory.

Considering all this, with the addition of that horrible Kinberg interview, I have the worst expectations for the sequel. But Magneto's fanboys will be happy, so I guess that's enough.

So then why do you still follow it? You have every right to speak you mind, but honestly you sound like a broken record spewing the same nonsense about how poor James McAvoy is some victim and Fassbender is some terrible human being who is teaming up with Vaughn to rid the world of Xavier.

 

[Mrs Vimes]

On Charles and physical mutations: while I agree that he's onboard with them, I also thought that his feelings about Raven's natural shape were made a bit more mixed by the conversation early on where she asks him if he'd date her. Ultimately yes, I believe that Charles didn't see Raven that way because he considered her a friend/sister. But I also think that there's something telling about the way Charles initially says "of course I would date you, you're stunning" easily enough, but when Raven draws his attention to her natural form he kinda looks uncomfortable and goes "....blue...?" and then gives her the "you're my oldest friend" when Raven presses him. So my impression was that though Charles had no problem with Raven's blue shape while he only had to think of her as friend/sister, he had trouble seeing it as attractive dating material, and I think Raven sensed that too. I thought it was another way that Charles was understandably flawed in FC - yes he's a future great mutant leader, but he's also a young guy to whom appearances matter when it comes to dating and flirting.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

On Charles and physical mutations: while I agree that he's onboard with them, I also thought that his feelings about Raven's natural shape were made a bit more mixed by the conversation early on where she asks him if he'd date her. Ultimately yes, I believe that Charles didn't see Raven that way because he considered her a friend/sister. But I also think that there's something telling about the way Charles initially says "of course I would date you, you're stunning" easily enough, but when Raven draws his attention to her natural form he kinda looks uncomfortable and goes "....blue...?" and then gives her the "you're my oldest friend" when Raven presses him. So my impression was that though Charles had no problem with Raven's blue shape while he only had to think of her as friend/sister, he had trouble seeing it as attractive dating material, and I think Raven sensed that too. I thought it was another way that Charles was understandably flawed in FC - yes he's a future great mutant leader, but he's also a young guy to whom appearances matter when it comes to dating and flirting.

Aye, I don't know how anyone could have missed that in the film, it was spelled out pretty obviously.

He was a little insensitive and careless in the way he spoke to her, but let's get real here, physical attraction of some kind has to be there in any romantic relationship, otherwise there is going to be problems. That's not exactly a unique criticism that you can level at Xavier, pluck any guy out at random and chances are you'll find the same character trait.
It's a more common trait in men than women, and if a guy tells you that physical appearance is not important to him when it comes to romantic/sexual relationships, well, most likely, you're talking to a liar.

 

[blueserenity]

On Charles and physical mutations: while I agree that he's onboard with them, I also thought that his feelings about Raven's natural shape were made a bit more mixed by the conversation early on where she asks him if he'd date her. Ultimately yes, I believe that Charles didn't see Raven that way because he considered her a friend/sister. But I also think that there's something telling about the way Charles initially says "of course I would date you, you're stunning" easily enough, but when Raven draws his attention to her natural form he kinda looks uncomfortable and goes "....blue...?" and then gives her the "you're my oldest friend" when Raven presses him. So my impression was that though Charles had no problem with Raven's blue shape while he only had to think of her as friend/sister, he had trouble seeing it as attractive dating material, and I think Raven sensed that too. I thought it was another way that Charles was understandably flawed in FC - yes he's a future great mutant leader, but he's also a young guy to whom appearances matter when it comes to dating and flirting.

Hmmm interesting perspective. It would be an interesting contrast to Erik's "THE MORE MUTANT-LOOKING THE BETTER" style. But I'm still not sure that dating blue Raven makes him wary because he doesn't find her scaly form attractive, but rather because it would mean exposure. If she was blonde all the time, it would still not be an incentive to date her because he simply doesn't have any sexual feelings towards her. His "Of course I would" was very automated, as was his "stunning" comment. It felt very brotherly. I think the idea of her being blue and them physically going outside on dates together (or her and another boy going on dates, outside) freaked him out. Despite his sneaky ways of using his gift to score women, I got the impression from the film that initially he is very scared about being found out. Hence the lecture about Raven not slipping up and getting so wigged out when she changes her eye color that he actually ditches the hot blonde at the bar.

So yeah, that's my long-winded version of saying that I think he was just alarmed at the idea of the world finding out about her (and by association, possibly him as well).

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Hmmm interesting perspective. It would be an interesting contrast to Erik's "THE MORE MUTANT-LOOKING THE BETTER" style. But I'm still not sure that dating blue Raven makes him wary because he doesn't find her scaly form attractive, but rather because it would mean exposure. If she was blonde all the time, it would still not be an incentive to date her because he simply doesn't have any sexual feelings towards her. His "Of course I would" was very automated, as was his "stunning" comment. It felt very brotherly. I think the idea of her being blue and them physically going outside on dates together (or her and another boy going on dates, outside) freaked him out. Despite his sneaky ways of using his gift to score women, I got the impression from the film that initially he is very scared about being found out. Hence the lecture about Raven not slipping up and getting so wigged out when she changes her eye color that he actually ditches the hot blonde at the bar.

So yeah, that's my long-winded version of saying that I think he was just alarmed at the idea of the world finding out about her (and by association, possibly him as well).

I think you would have an incredibly difficult time finding someone who agreed with you, it was obvious that Charlie was having a bit of a shallow moment there. They were both talking in terms of dating her, her physical attraction, nothing to do with 'hiding' her mutant form. Charlie said nothing in those terms, and neither did Raven, all he commented on was the fact of her uniquely blue form, and being surprised that she woudl think anyone would find her attractive in that form.
Shame on you Charlie, but that what was said.

 

[Nerial]

Actually, that's your duty. You can add anyone to your ignore list that you like. So all the Charles haters (if there are any ) and all the Magneto lovers can be erased from the forum. Well, you can't put moderators on your ignore list.

So instead of everyone voicing that they're ignoring someone, please make it official so you don't stir up any more drama than there already is.

I actually like both Loganbabe and blueserenity and enjoy their comments (well, most of the time). But if you’re going to call Loganbabe out for replying back to blueserenity, then you need to call out blueserenity for making the “ignore” comment in the first place.

Moving on…

On Charles and physical mutations: while I agree that he's onboard with them, I also thought that his feelings about Raven's natural shape were made a bit more mixed by the conversation early on where she asks him if he'd date her. Ultimately yes, I believe that Charles didn't see Raven that way because he considered her a friend/sister. But I also think that there's something telling about the way Charles initially says "of course I would date you, you're stunning" easily enough, but when Raven draws his attention to her natural form he kinda looks uncomfortable and goes "....blue...?" and then gives her the "you're my oldest friend" when Raven presses him. So my impression was that though Charles had no problem with Raven's blue shape while he only had to think of her as friend/sister, he had trouble seeing it as attractive dating material, and I think Raven sensed that too. I thought it was another way that Charles was understandably flawed in FC - yes he's a future great mutant leader, but he's also a young guy to whom appearances matter when it comes to dating and flirting.

I’m onboard with this. I don’t think Charles had a problem with her blue form in general, but he’s allowed to not find that form attractive to him. And he handled it in a very “young guy” kind of way, by avoiding the issue altogether and then telling Raven she’s been too consumed with her looks. It’s actually one of the character flaws I hope they’ll explore in the next movie, now that Charles will be dealing with body image issues of his own.

Magneto has all the traits of a dictator, and if he and the Brotherhood dominated the world he would rule it as a dictator. It's quite simple, really, and I see nothing "sympathetic" about a guy being another Mao, another Stalin. But still a lot of people left the cinemas thinking of him as a hero, not a villain. And I bet this will be even more amplified in the sequel. Plus, no one can deny that Vaughn was entirely dismissive of Charles - he's just a guy in a wheelchair who can't be Magneto's nemesis. Yeah, right. Considering all this, with the addition of that horrible Kinberg interview, I have the worst expectations for the sequel. But Magneto's fanboys will be happy, so I guess that's enough.

Well, you know my feelings on this, Loganbabe. I like Erik and can sympathize with him because I got to see—first hand—all the horrible things that were done to him (ironically, by another mutant…but that’s beside the point). Just because I understand where he’s coming from doesn’t mean I want him to succeed in his quest. He is the villain.

But you also know that Charles is my favorite, and that it’s because of the X-men: First Class movie that Charles is my favorite. So Vaughn must have done something right (even if he didn’t come up with all the ideas for Charles, he allowed other writers and McAvoy to step in and include their thoughts, which is the sign of a good director). I don’t think Charles was a dismissive character in First Class. Otherwise, I would have dismissed him.

I am a little concerned about the Kinberg “Magneto-centric” interview, but while you take that interview to such heart, you’re ignoring other interviews, like the one with James McAvoy, where he states exactly what you and I want to see, and that he’s talked with Vaughn about this. That Charles has just had something traumatic happen to him and he needs to go through fire. You’re also ignoring the fact that Fassbender (whether you like him or not) has said in interviews that he wants Charles’ conflict addressed, and also that Vaughn and Goldman are curretly RE-WRITING Kinberg’s script (thank the Lord).

Point out the bad stuff—okay…but don’t ignore the good stuff!

Well, I'm actually glad that you understand both sides. But I honestly don't see this at all. I mean, this is a movie with fictional characters, so people will feel eager to discuss these characters in depth and INCLUDING their flaws. Calling Xavier an a-hole (and discussing all the reasons why) is simply pointing out a part of who he is as written in decades of comics and in these films.

The fact that we’re debating this movie (and the characters) so much is just proof of how much we enjoy them. And you’re right—people are entitled to their opinions. That being said, I have never seen Charles as an a-hole and can’t understand how anyone possibly could.

Even with me conceding about the manipulation issue, it’s hard for me to see someone who takes in mutant children and adults into his home and has made it his life goal to prevent a mutant/human war and to push for mutant acceptance and prosperity as an a-hole. Even before I became a big Charles-fan (thanks to FC), I always thought of Xavier as the spiritual guide for the X-men and a father figure. Very similar to the X-men version of MLK. When I think of an a-hole, I think of someone who is selfish, inconsiderate, narcissistic and just a horrible person. Everyone has their “a-hole moments” and Charles is no exception, but to be one, that’s totally different.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I’m onboard with this. I don’t think Charles had a problem with her blue form in general, but he’s allowed to not find that form attractive to him. And he handled it in a very “young guy” kind of way, by avoiding the issue altogether and then telling Raven she’s been too consumed with her looks. It’s actually one of the character flaws I hope they’ll explore in the next movie, now that Charles will be dealing with body image issues of his own.

Aye, you put it much better than I did, I don't think Xavier should be singled out as having some kind of 'problem' that a lot of other don't, we all like what we like, and sometimes that can't be helped. Although, I have to say, I was maybe a bit hard on the male population back there, I, like many guys, have fancied women for who they are, *over* someone that I thought was better looking.
But, I just didn't like Xavier getting singled out for appearing to put stock in appearance, when a lot of people do.


But...he was insensitive in that scene, he did single out the fact she was blue, 'What...blue?' , so in a way, it was tied into her mutation, as well as perhaps his own feelings of not finding that form attractive.
Because he would be feeling that people would not be ready for that form, it being so out of the norm, so he assumed Raven was talking about her 'if she was not a mutant' form(which is, I guess what she is supposed to be choosing to do, use her shape-shifting to shift into what she would look like sans blue skin and scales, rather than just choosing the form of a random pretty woman).

which was a little silly of Charles, as of course, what other form would she be concerned about? But he was just not acclimatised to the idea of mutants being so out in the open, so his mind was closed to the idea there, and some wires got crossed when it came to answering her question, ie how poeple would react to her mutation look, and what people find attractive, which cross in a way anyway, but I guess we have to take it that Charles himself was not 'ready' for that kind of mutation look yet either, still regarding it as out of the norm for him.

 

[danoyse]

One last thing JP, I've learned to just ignore Loganbabe's posts. Her mutant power is to regard every comment that's either not about Charles or any negative comment about him as a thinly-veiled all-out attack on the character and/or full-fledged support of Magneto and his "Hitler-esque" terrorist actions.

How about you suggest that in PMs instead of broadcasting it on the boards?

I don't care how much any of you dislike each other, there's no reason to openly bash another poster on this forum, regardless of how much you disagree.

 

[danoyse]

Since I just had to delete this little flame-war, an announcement:

1. Personal attacks are NOT acceptable. I don't care who you don't like, I don't care what you're disagreeing on. Nothing gives anyone the right to openly bash another poster on this forum. If you want to suggest putting someone on "ignore" to another poster, do it in PMs, not here.

2. Chill out. Loganbabe, I know you're an Xavier fan, but you gotta stop taking every criticism of him so personally. Some people (including me) just prefer the other characters. They're not doing anything wrong for criticizing a character, wanting to see another character in the next movie, or whatever. If that's the case, just let it go.

3. The "ignore" button is your friend. Obviously, a bunch of you are never going to agree on certain subjects here. If you can't handle reading your enemy's comments without resorting to a snide comeback...do us all a favor, and put them on ignore. It saves the rest of us from having to put up with it, and it will save you from the inevitable infractions and probations that will come if it doesn't stop.

Just play nice, everyone.

 

[Mrs Vimes]

I don’t know—I’ve gotten the impression that a lot of fans think that Magneto’s the hero of First Class.

I think it's inevitable in a way, considering that most of the film is about Erik pre-Magneto, with the character only taking his first real steps into the villainhood in the last 20 minutes or so. So he's not actually a villain for like 80% of the running time, and some viewers who have been onboard with the character for most of the film might not want to jump off, so to speak.

I don't really see him as a villain in FC either - maybe more like a fallen hero? Same as I don't see Anakin Skywalker as the villain of the Star Wars prequels, though he ends up doing terrible things by the end of the third film and is definitely a bad guy in the original trilogy.

I think that different people might look at Erik/Magneto in FC differently: some might look at the character just as he is in the context of this one movie, and others might take a longer view and look at him through the lense of all the terrible things he ends up doing in his later life in the original trilogy and the comic books.

I’m onboard with this. I don’t think Charles had a problem with her blue form in general, but he’s allowed to not find that form attractive to him.

Yeah; I thought that where Charles went wrong in that scene was not that he didn't find Raven's blue form attractive, but in not realising that the kind thing to do in this situiation would have been to lie through his teeth to make a loved one feel better

 

[X-Maniac]

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. There are many X-men that have mutant traits, including Cyclops (wearing that strange visor, it’s pretty obvious he’s a mutant), Storm’s hair, Beast, Nightcrawler, Angel, to name a few. If Charles was really afraid of anyone that didn’t look “normal,” then even pretty mutations would be out of the question, like Angel’s wings. And even in XM:FC, when Charles sees Hank’s beastly feet, he says, “splendid.”

I don't entirely agree. Cyclops' visor is just like a set of night-vision goggles and doesn't really say he's a mutant as he otherwise has a normal body; Storm's hair is not necessarily a sign given the tradition for black women wearing wigs (I'm just thinking Tina Turner, Rihanna, Beyonce, Mary J Blige, all of whom wear wigs all or nearly all of the time. Does anyone really think Beyonce has flowing blonde hair??? Black women do not have hair like that! Brightly coloured wigs are popular too with black women; Rihanna often wears red or pink wigs and I've seen images of girls with white wigs on). Beast was never seen as a permanent member of the school in the original trilogy, though Xavier didn't show any revulsion towards his appearance. Angel (Warren Worthington) only appeared there after Xavier died. And Nightcrawler was never a fully-fledged X-Men member (unfortunately).

I think there is a bit of a divide between the more normal and more glamorous mutants at Xavier's school and the more bizarre and freakish ones with Magneto. It was more obvious in X1, when Sabretooth, Toad and Mystique were with Magneto.

From what I've seen on screen, I would suspect that Xavier is most certainly worried about how society will react to more conspicuous mutants. Perhaps he thinks society isn't ready to accept them yet and he is being cautious, over-protective.

He’s totally onboard with physical mutations, but I agree that with Raven, at this point in his life, he doesn’t understand what it’s like not to look normal. He thinks Raven wants to look normal and at the beginning of the movie, so does she. Maybe that has to do with Charles’ influence and her own insecurities, but he thinks that’s what she wants. She just changes her mind about it later on.

I can agree with that, although I think he is worried about society's reaction to physical mutations.

In addition, Charles has just suffered a horrible injury that SHOULD make him re-evaluate his feelings on being “normal.” Body image is one of the hardest issues for people living with spinal cord injury. Their legs will suffer lose of muscle tone and atrophy. They will spasm uncontrollably in public (spasms can knock some SCI victims right out of their wheelchairs). Above most people, Charles will understand what it’s like for others to look at you for not being normal. He will gain that empathy; he just hasn’t yet. Which I found quite interesting in XM:FC.

Yes, indeed. His paralysis will make him re-evaluate his feelings on normality.

I’m going to argue that the "more bizarre mutants” probably side more with Magneto and the Morlocks because they have been ostracized by society and don’t believe integration is possible like the X-men do. Physically deformed mutants will be the last to be accepted, and I can understand them hating humanity. But that’s not Xavier or the X-men’s fault.

Yes, that is true. They have been ostracised, or they believe they will never fit in, or both. No, it's not Xavier's fault but it does show the difficulty of his dream being reality. The comics depicted the Morlocks dwelling in the sewers, and a city 'mutant quarter' called District X, and an island called Genosha, all places where mutants sought to live without fear or prejudice. Xavier's mansion is just a more luxurious example of the same thing.

At worst, Xavier might try to shelter more bizarre students from society to protect them. And since there are people burning mutant effigies and Senators are trying to create registration acts to identify mutants…he’s actually being pretty rational with this issue.

Yes, sheltering them is a tactic used by both sides. Whereas Magneto resorts to terrorism, attack and a dream to conquer, what exactly is Xavier doing to further his dream? We know Beast eventually goes into politics and a Dept of Mutant Affairs is established, but prior to that - in these early years - what will Xavier do next? He sought to show that mutants were on mankind's side, and a force for good, when he wanted to stop Shaw and save the world. That didn't exactly work. What will be his next step in furthering his dream? Is it simply going to be a reactive strategy, stopping Magneto and all other villainous mutants where possible? Or will he actively take steps to present mutants in a good light and show how valuable they are?

 

[blueserenity]

I think you would have an incredibly difficult time finding someone who agreed with you, it was obvious that Charlie was having a bit of a shallow moment there. They were both talking in terms of dating her, her physical attraction, nothing to do with 'hiding' her mutant form. Charlie said nothing in those terms, and neither did Raven, all he commented on was the fact of her uniquely blue form, and being surprised that she woudl think anyone would find her attractive in that form.
Shame on you Charlie, but that what was said.

I dunno man, that (my above post) was my immediate thought about it when I saw the film and I didn't really think of it as him being shallow till it was brought up here. The leadup up to that scene, the way they establish the relationship between the pair, is what makes it seem less shallow and more fear.

They establish (or at least hint) that Raven has a crush on Charles, and Charles views her only as a sister, one he has to protect from the world. When she asks if he'd date her, his response isn't entirely genuine because no, he wouldn't date her. He doesn't see her as a sexual being in the slightest, so her attractiveness as blonde or blue is a bit irrelevant to him. When she shows up in the kitchen naked, it's not because she's blue that he freaks out, it's because she's naked and no one wants to see their sibling prancing around without clothes. He doesn't say "go blonde", he says, "put some clothes on". One could argue that his comments about the "cosmetic problem" is him being shallow, but I see it more as him awkwardly trying to word Raven's self-image issues.

I agree that Charles probably is less physically attracted to mutants who look like mutants (I don't think this at all affects his willingness to take them in). But I still think his reaction to dating her in blue form was startled at the idea that she would be visible as such to the rest of the world and not because he was majorly turned off.

I don't really see him as a villain in FC either - maybe more like a fallen hero? Same as I don't see Anakin Skywalker as the villain of the Star Wars prequels, though he ends up doing terrible things by the end of the third film and is definitely a bad guy in the original trilogy.

Absolutely this!! For me it's what makes his character so interesting and so tragic. We see how close he comes to being good for the long haul, how almost successful Charles is at keeping him there, and then everything shatters. I'll be honest, apart from Sir Ian's ability to make his characters badass from just existing, I was never a big fan of Magneto in the old movies. Seeing his tragic fall is what made me a fan.

I am disappointed that so far it looks like the sequel won't be Charles-centric, but I hope that doesn't stop them from encouraging mad character development from both Charles and Erik. They're both kind of in tatters, I think, at the end of FC, but not completely on the paths they're meant to be on. I can't see Erik being a 100% villain just yet, and I definitely don't think Charles is ready to be the pure-hearted Patrick Stewart Xavier(personally I'll be mad if they gloss over the loss of his limbs, sister, and best friend as being minor things). Ms Vimes you hit the nail on the head when you compared it to Anakin in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. I don't think we'll see a full-fledged "Darth Vader" Magneto till the third movie. I hope we don't anyway.

 

[X-Maniac]

I am disappointed that so far it looks like the sequel won't be Charles-centric, but I hope that doesn't stop them from encouraging mad character development from both Charles and Erik. They're both kind of in tatters, I think, at the end of FC, but not completely on the paths they're meant to be on. I can't see Erik being a 100% villain just yet, and I definitely don't think Charles is ready to be the pure-hearted Patrick Stewart Xavier(personally I'll be mad if they gloss over the loss of his limbs, sister, and best friend as being minor things). Ms Vimes you hit the nail on the head when you compared it to Anakin in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. I don't think we'll see a full-fledged "Darth Vader" Magneto till the third movie. I hope we don't anyway.

They simply have to include a good arc for Xavier in the sequel.

How does he cope with that disability? How does it make him reassess his idea of normality? What does that do for his reliance on his mind and psi-powers? I see it as leading to the exploration of the astral plane where he can once again be mobile and physically powerful.

And how does he go about furthering his dream of co-existence and integration?

 

[blueserenity]

They simply have to include a good arc for Xavier in the sequel.

How does he cope with that disability? How does it make him reassess his idea of normality? What does that do for his reliance on his mind and psi-powers? I see it as leading to the exploration of the astral plane where he can once again be mobile and physically powerful.

And how does he go about furthering his dream of co-existence and integration?

Yeah, they have to. But Kinberg's Magneto-centric comments alarmed me initially, especially because at the time many people were reblogging Vaughn's tastless ableism comments (about how Mags needs a new person to fight because Charles is in a wheelchair). Now that the people involved have had time to think about things, and hopefully have allowed the main acting duo to offer input, I have high hopes for the sequel . It makes sense that the movie can't really be Charles-centric. I think we got so spoiled by the character development that many of us almost expected a sequel that was going to be about Charles dealing with his losses. But as someone said here or on another board, these are still X-MEN movies, which means the expectation from the general audience is that there is going to be fighting and powers etc. I trust in Vaughn to find a happy medium.

I'm a bit torn on the relationship between Charles' powers and his disability/nonphysical losses. On the one hand, I think his sadness and pain would be an interesting motivator for him to explore things like you suggested, such as astral projection. On the other hand, when he does turn into the more solid, calm Stewart Xavier, I feel like it should come from himself and not because of his mutant gifts. Does that make sense?

Oh and this is totally on a different note and perhaps the wrong thread, but any word if Henry Jackman is coming back to do the score? The soundtrack is bloody brilliant and I would hate to lose the Magneto theme. I miss it enough already when I watch the older movies.

 

[Loganbabe]

But you also know that Charles is my favorite, and that it’s because of the X-men: First Class movie that Charles is my favorite. So Vaughn must have done something right (even if he didn’t come up with all the ideas for Charles, he allowed other writers and McAvoy to step in and include their thoughts, which is the sign of a good director). I don’t think Charles was a dismissive character in First Class. Otherwise, I would have dismissed him.

I was talking more about the interview Vaughn gave after First Class, about the sequel and that he would bring only one more character to be Magneto's nemesis, since Charles was in a wheelchair. It was incredibly dismissive of the character and his physical condition. Kinberg's interview didn't help either, because he didn't even mention Charles' role in the sequel; like he didn't even exist in his script. So both were hugely dismissive of a character who is, after all, one of the two main protagonists.

Now, in First Class, I'm glad the Vaughn allowed James to bring in his own ideas, so I agree that was a great director's move, because James is always creative about the characters he plays. And it's really good that Vaughn recognized it.

What saddens me is that although Vaughn has praised James' acting hability in interviews, he never says one thing about Charles, his complexity and how he was eager to develop him further. So far I'm still waiting for at least one interview or comment in which Vaughn or Kinberg or both talk about Charles with at least a tiny little bit of interest.

I am a little concerned about the Kinberg “Magneto-centric” interview, but while you take that interview to such heart, you’re ignoring other interviews, like the one with James McAvoy, where he states exactly what you and I want to see, and that he’s talked with Vaughn about this. That Charles has just had something traumatic happen to him and he needs to go through fire. You’re also ignoring the fact that Fassbender (whether you like him or not) has said in interviews that he wants Charles’ conflict addressed, and also that Vaughn and Goldman are curretly RE-WRITING Kinberg’s script (thank the Lord).

Point out the bad stuff—okay…but don’t ignore the good stuff!

I'm taking the interview to such heart because, like I said above, I never really read neither Vaughn nor Kinberg mention Charles and the importance of his role in the first film (and the sequel), so I'm still waiting for the official word on the subject. So far - and talking specially about the post-FC interviews - I only read about the focus on Magneto. And I'm not considering neither James' interview nor Fassbender's comments "official". James was talking about how he wanted to develop the character but he knows it's just a possibility. He, as an actor, has a very important role in the production, of course, but he's not a director or a writer or a producer. He also knows that having a nice conversation about the character with the director isn't the same as writing a script.

So I'll just keep waiting an interview from either Kinberg or Vaughn or Goldman that will address both protagonists equally. This is the only thing I ask for.

 

[JP]

I'm taking the interview to such heart because, like I said above, I never really read neither Vaughn nor Kinberg mention Charles and the importance of his role in the first film (and the sequel), so I'm still waiting for the official word on the subject. So far - and talking specially about the post-FC interviews - I only read about the focus on Magneto. And I'm not considering neither James' interview nor Fassbender's comments "official". James was talking about how he wanted to develop the character but he knows it's just a possibility. He, as an actor, has a very important role in the production, of course, but he's not a director or a writer or a producer. He also knows that having a nice conversation about the character with the director isn't the same as writing a script.

And yet the first film pretty much speaks for itself in regards to Charles. He wasn't shafted in the slightest, and his role was just as integral as Magneto's.

 

[Angamb]

They had similar screentime.

The main difference is that Magneto got action scenes, Charles not. That's why many people has the feeling Michael has a bigger or more important role.

 

[Majik1387]

Charles isn't a action-driven character, Erik is, it would only make sense for Erik to get action scenes.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

After reading gushing reviews of how perfectly Whedon juggles all the Avenger's heroes without misusing even one of them makes me want an X-men film from him.

 

[Angamb]

Charles isn't a action-driven character, Erik is, it would only make sense for Erik to get action scenes.

of course he isnt...

but that wasnt the point of the discussion

 

[Mrs Vimes]

About Kinberg's interview, I've posted this before, but when he says something like this

"I’m a huge X-Men fan. I grew up loving the comic books and it was really exciting to be able to do the origin story of Xavier and Magneto, and getting those two actors, [James] McAvoy and [Michael] Fassbender, were really amazing," he said. "So being able to explore those characters withactors of that quality will be exciting a second time around, and doing some things unexpected with those characters, which is the plan."

I can't see where people get an idea that he's only interested in Magneto when he's talking about both characters and both actors. Unless they think that if he doesn't mention James/Charles separately, it just doesn't count.

Plus I looked up that interview again and for some reason it's not restricted this time around, so I could watch it. I can safely say that at no point whatsoever does Kinberg say that the sequel will be Magneto-centric or that it will focus on him, so all this Magneto-heavy stuff comes squarely from the writer of the article. And he talks about Magneto's role in the sequel later in the interview because the interviewer asks him specifically about Magneto and he's just answering her question. Had she asked him about Charles, he'd have talked about Charles.

As for Vaughn, well yeah he makes no bones about being more interested in Erik. I've actually brought up the Star Wars comparison because I remembered an interview with Vaughn where he says that he sees Xavier as Obi-Wan and Erik as Anakin, and (paraphrasing) while he thinks that Obi-Wan is cool and all he's just always been more fascinated with Anakin. So naturally he's going to talk about what interests him the most, I mean that's a pretty common human trait, and he's not obligated to love both characters equally. But because Charles is not his absolute favouritest character, it doesn't mean that he's not interested in him at all and that he's not prepared to give him time.

I think there is a bit of a divide between the more normal and more glamorous mutants at Xavier's school and the more bizarre and freakish ones with Magneto. It was more obvious in X1, when Sabretooth, Toad and Mystique were with Magneto.

I think a big part of it is simply that the writers, consciously or not, often tend to depict the good guys as someone who looks like them and their audience (and who therefore are easier to identify with), whereas the bad guys often look more strange, deformed or alien.

Oh and this is totally on a different note and perhaps the wrong thread, but any word if Henry Jackman is coming back to do the score? The soundtrack is bloody brilliant and I would hate to lose the Magneto theme. I miss it enough already when I watch the older movies.

Ooh I agree, I think that the FC soundtrack is bloody awesome I wouldn't be surprised if the Magneto theme is used to promote other films (in fact I've seen a Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy promo with it a while ago), it's such a dramatic piece.

 

[def28]

I hope they change the main theme for the sequel a bit, I liked it in certain places like the montage but hated it for the battle and action scenes. Too light, I would prefer something more intense. I did like Magnetos theme alot, thats the one I seem to remember the most.