MCU Fight: Ebony Maw vs Scarlet Witch

[BigThor]

I like Star Lord v Falcon ! Spidey v Drax ....interesting.

Glaive v Drax.....also interesting, although I think there would be a big difference in result if they were unarmed.

How about Glaive vs Heimdall, great match up !

Proxima v Valkyrie would be interesting, although Val has a reasonable strength and durability advantage.

Heimdall Vs Glaive would be badass, we still haven't used Heimdall in a fight so it's a perfect chance to bring him out.

Heimdall really a badass and powerful as hell low-key, I think he's above Valkyrie honestly as is only below Odin, Thor, and Hela in the Adgardian power structure. The guy can see and hear across the universe and telepathically speak to and link his vision to people across the universe as well.

 

[Batmannerism]

I


A lot of people disagree with it but more facts point to it than the contrary, when he hit her with the lightning she flew off the balcony eyes closed and her body limp. Now if she wasn't knocked out, wouldn't she flail around trying to break or stop her fall as evidenced by her being able to flip herself right side up while being throw by Thor in Bifrost fight.

By "It didn't nothing" Thor was most likely saying she's still alive and completely healed in his eyes that would still be doing nothing since he was trying to KILL her (probably didn't try to finish her off because he thought she was dead).

Hela has an insane healing factor, but that doesn't mean she'll unable to be briefly KO'd. The script said she was KO'd and she was missing for a good portion after the blast, but most important she fell to the ground not moving. Did you see how Gamora flailed her limbs as she fell when Thanos threw her from that cliff, yeah that's what people do when they fall while conscious.

What we saw onscreen was inconclusive at best - also Gamora didn't want to die, which is why flailing was reasonable. Watch TDK, the Joker falls, no flailing because he doesn't care whether he lives or dies. Hela, who knows ? Possibly a combination of a) she knows a fall isn't going to harm her and b) she's such a badass she isn't afraid of death anyway.

All respect to the script, but onscreen she's out for maybe a minute - enough time for Thor to make an amazing entrance and wipe out most of the zombie warriors.

As for what he meant by "It did nothing." well, if it KO'd her, why not just hit her again and finish her off ? I think when he said "It did nothing" that's exactly what he meant. But again, that's an assumption - just like your assumption that she was unconscious or stunned - and the truth is we'll never know.

No she couldn't do that to Stormbreaker, it was specifically stated to be the most powerful weapon in Asgard (above Gunjnir and Mjolnjr) and explicit stated to the the King's weapon. Mjonir was never stated to be all of that, logically it's even inferior to Gungnir since that was wielded by Odin and his father Bor as All Fathers (hmm wonder why they didn't wield Mjolnir).

She would lose on Earth, Asgard, and anywhere else, with Stormbreaker Thor was able to power through a beam of all 6 Infinity Stones from a full powered Infinity Gauntlet. C'mon now, Hela is tough but she's not THAT tough, she would get smashed she's a bit overrated imo. Stormbreaker has access to the bifrost (people seem to overlook that), if all else fails that's an easy path for victory.

Hmmm.... again assumption - Hela crushed Mjolnir before she returned to Asgard, when she was at her weakest (well, as relatively weak as she can get). I don't think you can simply rule out her ability to damage stormbreaker.

As for Hela being overrated - she crushed Mjolnir and absolutely kicked Thor's ass in Ragnarok, and blinded him in one eye, and this in a film where he was able to (almost) defeat the Hulk without Mjolnir. To me that suggests that she's a being of unimaginable power. I mean, she was interested by but didn't bother with the tesseract, because she had other things to do.
I don't think she's overrated, rather she's exactly the kind of universe level threat that she's meant to be in the comics.

But that's a good thing, because it made for a lot of tension in the film (she also had a great, but dark, sense of humour) as an audience, you really didn't know how Thor was going to save the day - and he did ! I think that's what Odin meant about Thor being stronger - as well as physically stronger (although maybe not with the same level of magic) - he was a stronger person, in that he actually dealt with the threat of Hela, rather than just trying to put off the problem for another day.


As for the Bifrost as a path to victory ? Do you mean he would hit her with the Bifrost beam or use it to blow up the planet she's on? That doesn't sound like a very Thor-ish thing to do - also the Bifrost is primarily a means of transportation. The only time we've seen it used to blow up planets was when the actual Bifrost bridge was intact and the bridge mechanism was working.

As for a weapon ? I suppose it killed the dragon in Ragnarok because it beamed up his head, not the rest of him - but it doesn't harm Thor when it beams him up - or Hela for that matter.

Use the bifrost energy, through Stormbreaker, to travel across the galaxy, sure we know Thor can do that. But I honestly don't know if it's something he could use as a weapon against an opponent he was fighting hand to hand - and until we see him use it to blow up a planet, I'm not convinced he could, or even would do that.

Who knows, we'll probably get a better indication of what Thor can/cannot do in A4, and hopefully another Taika Waititi Thor film - although having destroyed Asgard, that's a tough act to follow, and they've used up two real classic big bads, Hela and Surtur. I'm not sure where to go from there - maybe Gorr the God Butcher ?


As for Iron Man Hulkbuster vs Bleeding Edge Iron Man, having AI's duke it out makes sense (well more sense than Tony and a clone). Not sure who I'd give it to - probably Bleeding Edge for having self-repair and more adaptive weaponry. Hulkbuster struggled against Cull Obsidian - while Bleeding Edge drew blood from Thanos.....before he crippled it and nearly killed Tony.

Heimdall vs Glaive is going to be very close, and interesting.

I suspect whomever gets the first good hit in will win - I give Heimdall a strength and durability advantage in general - but we know that Glaive's weapon can certainly kill him. A very good match up though.

 

[BigThor]

What we saw onscreen was inconclusive at best - also Gamora didn't want to die, which is why flailing was reasonable. Watch TDK, the Joker falls, no flailing because he doesn't care whether he lives or dies. Hela, who knows ? Possibly a combination of a) she knows a fall isn't going to harm her and b) she's such a badass she isn't afraid of death anyway.

All respect to the script, but onscreen she's out for maybe a minute - enough time for Thor to make an amazing entrance and wipe out most of the zombie warriors.

As for what he meant by "It did nothing." well, if it KO'd her, why not just hit her again and finish her off ? I think when he said "It did nothing" that's exactly what he meant. But again, that's an assumption - just like your assumption that she was unconscious or stunned - and the truth is we'll never know.

He struck her with the lightning and immediately leaped towards the Bifrost, it's fair to assume he thought she was dead (but it was dumb of him not to check). Like I said it says it in the script and she was offscreen for a fewminutes, so "more" logic points to her being knocked out than not.

What Thor said is ultimatedly irrelevant because he left as soon as she fell he didn't even see what happened to her. Also KO'ing someone is not the same as killing them, he could've spammed multiple lighting bolts and she wouldn't have died, she's virtually un-killable as long as Asgard was contact.

Remember she has an extreme healing factor, so while she can be knocked out it doesn't mean she can be killed. But yeah like you said it wasn't EXPLICITLY shown in the film so it's all hypotheticals.

Hmmm.... again assumption - Hela crushed Mjolnir before she returned to Asgard, when she was at her weakest (well, as relatively weak as she can get). I don't think you can simply rule out her ability to damage stormbreaker.

As for Hela being overrated - she crushed Mjolnir and absolutely kicked Thor's ass in Ragnarok, and blinded him in one eye, and this in a film where he was able to (almost) defeat the Hulk without Mjolnir. To me that suggests that she's a being of unimaginable power. I mean, she was interested by but didn't bother with the tesseract, because she had other things to do.
I don't think she's overrated, rather she's exactly the kind of universe level threat that she's meant to be in the comics.

If Hela can crush a weapon that resisted all 6 beams from a fully powered Infinity Gauntlet she's the most powerful character in the entire MCU by miles.

As for the Bifrost as a path to victory ? Do you mean he would hit her with the Bifrost beam or use it to blow up the planet she's on? That doesn't sound like a very Thor-ish thing to do - also the Bifrost is primarily a means of transportation. The only time we've seen it used to blow up planets was when the actual Bifrost bridge was intact and the bridge mechanism was working.

As for a weapon ? I suppose it killed the dragon in Ragnarok because it beamed up his head, not the rest of him - but it doesn't harm Thor when it beams him up - or Hela for that matter.

Use the bifrost energy, through Stormbreaker, to travel across the galaxy, sure we know Thor can do that. But I honestly don't know if it's something he could use as a weapon against an opponent he was fighting hand to hand - and until we see him use it to blow up a planet, I'm not convinced he could, or even would do that.

Who knows, we'll probably get a better indication of what Thor can/cannot do in A4, and hopefully another Taika Waititi Thor film - although having destroyed Asgard, that's a tough act to follow, and they've used up two real classic big bads, Hela and Surtur. I'm not sure where to go from there - maybe Gorr the God Butcher ?

Yeah I just meant remove her from the battle field.

As for Iron Man Hulkbuster vs Bleeding Edge Iron Man, having AI's duke it out makes sense (well more sense than Tony and a clone). Not sure who I'd give it to - probably Bleeding Edge for having self-repair and more adaptive weaponry. Hulkbuster struggled against Cull Obsidian - while Bleeding Edge drew blood from Thanos.....before he crippled it and nearly killed Tony.

You're forgetting Cull Obsidian actually fought the Bleed Edge Iron Man armor as well and was winning easily for the entire fight.

Oh and he was simultaneously kicking Spider-Man's ass as well, the Hulkbuster armor did much better against Cull actually.

Heimdall vs Glaive is going to be very close, and interesting.

I suspect whomever gets the first good hit in will win - I give Heimdall a strength and durability advantage in general - but we know that Glaive's weapon can certainly kill him. A very good match up though.

Yeah I'm gonna see what Jaqua wants to do, I think is his turn next.

 

[Thör-El]

I can see Hulk beating Cull, mostly because he was such a one note henchman - even Kurse had way more personality. Hulk smash !

Cull gives Bruce in the Hulkbuster - not a skilled pilot, he was tripping up at the start of the battle - a good fight but loses. He also gets ragdolled by Iron Man in New York, has his hammer caught by Spider-Man and is (blink and you'll miss it) punched to the ground by Black Panther.
Hulk's a little out of his league.

Not so sure Nebula would stomp Proxima, I think it would be quite close.

Nebula's powerful enough to give Gamora a close fight and apparently 'almost succeeded' in assassinating Thanos off screen. Plus like you say, her cybernetics make her tough as hell. Proxima's probably very similar skills wise and she was tough enough to survive being tossed around by Scarlet Witch/blindsided by Team Cap but she's only actually defeated powerless human opponents hand to hand.

Widow v Okoye would also be close, but I suspect that Nat is more comfortable with killing her opponents and that + her skills would give her the edge.

I'm not sure Widow's more comfortable with killing. As entertaining as it would be, in character they'd probably never fight anyway.

It's definitely close. They've both fought alien armies, they've both been outclassed by a superhuman (Winter Soldier/Killmonger) and they seem to be the most skilled fighters SHIELD/Wakanda have to offer. I give it to Widow because she did better against the Black Order and she's beaten Hawkeye whereas we haven't seen Okoye defeat equally skilled opponents.

Glaive's weapon would be a massive problem for BP - although BP's claws would even the odds a little.
Depending on the terrain, and other factors I probably have to give that one to Glaive.

If Black Panther goes in knowing the spear can cut through vibranium I'd give him an outside chance but yeah, Glaive seemed to be stronger/faster than Cap (who's roughly on par with BP).

We already know how Scarlet Witch vs Vision turns out, badly for Vision.

Her power over the mind gem's his kryptonite but he was focused on Clint when she used it to overpower him. If Vision was expecting SW to attack then he's faster/stronger/durable as hell. I still think she'd win but it'd be closer.

Stormbreaker Thor vs Hela would be a very close fight.....
We know that Thor's lightning doesn't have a lot of effect on her - I disagree with those who say it knocked her out, we see her fall but there's no way to tell if she's conscious it not, and if she was KO'd why didn't Thor finish her off? And of course he literally says " it did nothing"
However Stormbreaker might actually be to harm her. I think he would need to kill her outright, a headshot maybe, or she'd recover....

Could she do to Stormbreaker what she did to Mjolnir ? She crushed it effortlessly and it was also forged at nivadellir.

We know Thor's lightning doesn't permanently damage her but it ragdolled her and we see her fall limp. If she was just thrown by it I'm pretty sure she'd have flipped/landed on her feet like she does in another scene. Instead she crashes into the courtyard making a crater in the stone when she lands and doesn't show up again for a few minutes, so he must have knocked her out. I didn't even know the script says she was ko'd, that just settles it.
To me "it did nothing" meant Thor thought he'd defeated/killed her and now here she is unharmed.

Between that, his ability to block Hela's swords with lightning or his hammer/survive a few, Stormbreaker possibly amping his lightning and definitely giving him a weapon that can cut through Hela I think he'd win. Stormbreaker's meant to be a big step up over Mjolnir so I don't think breaking one means she can break the other. It's a weapon that can power through a six stone Infinity gauntlet blast.

However Ultron Prime would be a pretty quick fight. Thor is a lot stronger than he was in age of Ultron, and Stormbreaker appears to be a more powerful weapon. Can't see Ultron lasting very long.

Agreed. Ultron vs Ragnarok Thor would be a little closer. Thor with Mjolnir's probably a fairer fight. I still think Ultron only had the upper hand in AoU because he blindsided Thor (and then Thor -not in any real danger - decided to distract him for Vision).

Kurse is tricky, because his powers are like kryptonite to asgardians, he could smash right through Asgardian technology/magic and Mjolnir didnt faze him.
However he is vulnerable to cutting attacks with bladed weapons ( they dont hurt him, but penetrate his body) Maybe Thor could split his head open with Stormbreaker's blade ? Assuming Kurse hasnt grown in power as well, the upgraded Thor would have a much better chance.

I'm not sure where you're getting this "kryptonite to Asgardians" angle from, he was just incredibly strong and durable (against blunt force at least). We never saw how he copes against lightning, he doesn't show much skill and if Loki can run him through with a spear then I'm pretty sure Stormbreaker can cut right through him.

Black Widow v Daredevil is really tough to call. Both are excellent fighters and really physically tough. I think the one decisive difference would be terrain, if Matt could fight her in the dark then he'd take her down.

If Matt gets to fight in the dark then forget Widow, he'd probably beat half the superhuman tier.
If it was no armour, no gadgets in daylight I'd give it to Widow. Matt's slightly tougher/stronger, Widow's slightly more skilled. If Daredevil gets his armour I'd give it to Matt. If Widow gets her gadgets and he gets his armour I think it's almost 50:50.

Apparently we've had this fight and I missed it: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=536521

Bleeding Edge Iron Man I think is too versatile for the Hulkbuster - but it also depends who's flying them.

I'd probably vote Bleeding Edge too but Hulkbuster's definitely stronger and probably more durable. Most powerful Iron Man armour seems like a cool question to settle.

Is it worth thinking about Punisher vs Winter Soldier?

They're both tough as nails ex-Special forces veterans, hand to hand experts and world class marksmen. Going by feats Frank's a better shot but Bucky's a better martial artist. That might make you think it's close but the thing is Bucky's also a super soldier with MCU Cap level strength/speed/durability to back up his skill and decades of experience. It's not going to be close.

I like Star Lord v Falcon ! Spidey v Drax ....interesting.

Glaive v Drax.....also interesting, although I think there would be a big difference in result if they were unarmed.

Proxima v Valkyrie would be interesting, although Val has a reasonable strength and durability advantage.

I think Star Lord beats Falcon. They're both great fliers but Star Lord has better weapons.

Drax beats MCU Spidey but only because he's still a rookie (the Garfield/Maguire versions of Spidey would stomp Drax, give Holland a few more films and hopefully he'll get there).

I agree. Drax beats Glaive in hand to hand but probably loses if it's Drax with his knives vs Glaive with his spear.

Val's in a whole different league to Proxima in my book. Like I said above, Proxima's only shown defeating humans. Val on the other hand spars with Hulk, overpowers/outskills Loki in a knife fight, jumps around on top of spaceships tearing them apart, cuts her way through an army of undead Asgardians and survives a fight with Hela.

Heimdall Vs Glaive would be badass, we still haven't used Heimdall in a fight so it's a perfect chance to bring him out.

Heimdall really a badass and powerful as hell low-key, I think he's above Valkyrie honestly as is only below Odin, Thor, and Hela in the Adgardian power structure. The guy can see and hear across the universe and telepathically speak to and link his vision to people across the universe as well.

The thing with Heimdall is his best powers - all seeing/hearing, summoning the bifrost, telepathically speaking to Thor across the universe - aren't really useful in a fight.

He's still a badass Asgardian swordsman who can take down Dark Elf spaceships/fight an army of undead but he lost to Loki in Thor 1, he was starting to get overwhelmed by Hela's army when Korg showed up and Valkyrie has better feats than him. I still think he'd stomp Corvus Glaive though.

 

[BigThor]

Cull gives Bruce in the Hulkbuster - not a skilled pilot, he was tripping up at the start of the battle - a good fight but loses. He also gets ragdolled by Iron Man in New York, has his hammer caught by Spider-Man and is (blink and you'll miss it) punched to the ground by Black Panther.
Hulk's a little out of his league.

Cull smashed Iron Man and Spidey in New York at the same time. Spidey caught his hammer and hit him with a taxi but other than that he and IM got ragdolled, Wong had to step in and save IM.

The thing with Heimdall is his best powers - all seeing/hearing, summoning the bifrost, telepathically speaking to Thor across the universe - aren't really useful in a fight.

He's still a badass Asgardian swordsman who can take down Dark Elf spaceships/fight an army of undead but he lost to Loki in Thor 1, he was starting to get overwhelmed by Hela's army when Korg showed up and Valkyrie has better feats than him. I still think he'd stomp Corvus Glaive though.

They matter more than you know, Corvus won't be able to sneak up on Heimdall and catch him off guard like he did Vision.

Heimdall destroying that Dark Elf ship is a better feat than anything Valkyrie has done. Also Heimdall didn't get "beat" by Loki, Loki merely froze him using The Casket of Ancient for the very reason that he CAN'T beat Heimdall in a fight.

 

[Thör-El]

Cull smashed Iron Man and Spidey in New York at the same time. Spidey caught his hammer and hit him with a taxi but other than that he and IM got ragdolled, Wong had to step in and save IM.

Yeah, to be fair Cull would've killed Tony if Wong hadn't stepped in. My take on that is that Tony lost focus when Peter was beamed up.

I was making a point about Hulk vs Cull anyway. Cull still had his killing blow caught by Spiderman and got ragdolled by Iron Man beams and I can't see either of those things happening to Hulk.
Plus Cull lost to a Hulkbuster with an inexperienced pilot and no spare parts whereas Hulk was winning against the real deal (and then got sucker punched when the mind control wore off).

They matter more than you know, Corvus won't be able to sneak up on Heimdall and catch him off guard like he did Vision.

True enough. I always assume these fights are fair anyway though which rules out backstabbing an opponent that doesn't even know they're in a fight.

Heimdall destroying that Dark Elf ship is a better feat than anything Valkyrie has done. Also Heimdall didn't get "beat" by Loki, Loki merely froze him using The Casket of Ancient for the very reason that he CAN'T beat Heimdall in a fight.

You mean the Valkyrie who jumped from spaceship to spaceship taking them down during a high speed dogfight in Ragnarok? How is that not better than Heimdall taking out one relatively slow ship and falling back to the ground?

Plus like I said
-he was getting overwhelmed by undead Asgardians whereas she wasn't.
-she's survived a fight with Hela and he hasn't went up against anyone stronger than Loki.

Speaking of which, Loki used the Casket of Ancient Winters but Heimdall still lost. If you watch the clip Heimdall actually starts attacking an unarmed Loki and Loki conjures the casket and freezes him before he can finish one swing of his sword. Val on the other hand seemed to outclass Loki in speed/skill in Ragnarok.

It'd be a close fight but I don't think Heimdall's powers come into it so my bet's on Val.

 

[Batmannerism]

He struck her with the lightning and immediately leaped towards the Bifrost, it's fair to assume he thought she was dead (but it was dumb of him not to check). Like I said it says it in the script and she was offscreen for a fewminutes, so "more" logic points to her being knocked out than not.

What Thor said is ultimatedly irrelevant because he left as soon as she fell he didn't even see what happened to her. Also KO'ing someone is not the same as killing them, he could've spammed multiple lighting bolts and she wouldn't have died, she's virtually un-killable as long as Asgard was contact.

Remember she has an extreme healing factor, so while she can be knocked out it doesn't mean she can be killed. But yeah like you said it wasn't EXPLICITLY shown in the film so it's all hypotheticals.




If Hela can crush a weapon that resisted all 6 beams from a fully powered Infinity Gauntlet she's the most powerful character in the entire MCU by miles.




Yeah I just meant remove her from the battle field.




You're forgetting Cull Obsidian actually fought the Bleed Edge Iron Man armor as well and was winning easily for the entire fight.

Oh and he was simultaneously kicking Spider-Man's ass as well, the Hulkbuster armor did much better against Cull actually.



Yeah I'm gonna see what Jaqua wants to do, I think is his turn next.

I dont remember Cull v Iron Man being a total stomp, as IM nailed him with that first big blast, which forced Maw to fling him aside.

But If Spidey hadn't intervened I think Tony would have had Cull's axe embedded in his face.

Personally I call that one a draw, or maybe a win for Cull vs Iron Man, but a loss overall ( given that he lost a hand) - although it was Wong who finished the fight. However, I'm biased because I found Cull such a boring character - probably the only one who stands out as having zero personality.

 

[BigThor]

I dont remember Cull v Iron Man being a total stomp, as IM nailed him with that first big blast, which forced Maw to fling him aside.

But If Spidey hadn't intervened I think Tony would have had Cull's axe embedded in his face.

Personally I call that one a draw, or maybe a win for Cull vs Iron Man, but a loss overall ( given that he lost a hand) - although it was Wong who finished the fight. However, I'm biased because I found Cull such a boring character - probably the only one who stands out as having zero personality.

Nah bro, besides Iron Man's initial blast it was pretty one sided. That was one of the few things Iron Man did that even effected Cull.

 

[BigThor]

You mean the Valkyrie who jumped from spaceship to spaceship taking them down during a high speed dogfight in Ragnarok? How is that not better than Heimdall taking out one relatively slow ship and falling back to the ground?

Plus like I said
-he was getting overwhelmed by undead Asgardians whereas she wasn't.
-she's survived a fight with Hela and he hasn't went up against anyone stronger than Loki.

Speaking of which, Loki used the Casket of Ancient Winters but Heimdall still lost. If you watch the clip Heimdall actually starts attacking an unarmed Loki and Loki conjures the casket and freezes him before he can finish one swing of his sword. Val on the other hand seemed to outclass Loki in speed/skill in Ragnarok.

It'd be a close fight but I don't think Heimdall's powers come into it so my bet's on Val.

Yep, the way Heimdall stabbed into that ship and climbed on then surgically stabbed it in the right spot was more impressive to me. But objectively speaking both of those feats are about the same level, Valkyrie's was more fleshed out though.

And if Loki had the Casket of Ancient Winters he would beat Valkyrie too. It's not fair to compare an instance where a character used an ancient artifact that's powerful enough to freeze a planet to an instance where they fought using hand to hand skills and knives.

That's like comparing someone who fought Doctor Strange with the Time Stone to someone who fought Doctor Strange without it. Also remember the scene in Thor 1 where Loki tells Heimdall "You have a great power, does Odin fear you?", it shows you why he felt the need to use a power up to take on Heimdall.

Heimdall being overcome on the bridge was just PIS to give Korg a reason to give another cool one liner. Heimdall was kicking thiose undead Asgardians ass with ease the whole movie up until that point. Also it was Valkyrie's first film and she was a main character, gotta have her shine since she's the new kid on the block

 

[Batmannerism]

Yep, the way Heimdall stabbed into that ship and climbed on then surgically stabbed it in the right spot was more impressive to me. But objectively speaking both of those feats are about the same level, Valkyrie's was more fleshed out though.

And if Loki had the Casket of Ancient Winters he would beat Valkyrie too. It's not fair to compare an instance where a character used an ancient artifact that's powerful enough to freeze a planet to an instance where they fought using hand to hand skills and knives.

That's like comparing someone who fought Doctor Strange with the Time Stone to someone who fought Doctor Strange without it. Also remember the scene in Thor 1 where Loki tells Heimdall "You have a great power, does Odin fear you?", it shows you why he felt the need to use a power up to take on Heimdall.

Heimdall being overcome on the bridge was just PIS to give Korg a reason to give another cool one liner. Heimdall was kicking thiose undead Asgardians ass with ease the whole movie up until that point. Also it was Valkyrie's first film and she was a main character, gotta have her shine since she's the new kid on the block

I prefer Heimdall's feat, because the ship was invisible (even to him) until he sunk his knives into it - that's impressive.

On the bridge Heimdall was overwhelmed by weight of numbers -and couldn't keep up with his offence and defence (the only reason Thor dealt to them was his immense strength and lightning powers which allowed him to take out groups of them at once) - and Heimdall was facing the bulk of the zombie army, whereas Val was fighting less of them at once.

I suspect that if Val had been swarmed by a similar number of zombie warriors, she too would have been injured, and eventually overwhelmed.

I see that Wanda has made a bit of a comeback in the poll, not enough to win, but enough to make it a respectable defeat.

 

[Thör-El]

Yep, the way Heimdall stabbed into that ship and climbed on then surgically stabbed it in the right spot was more impressive to me. But objectively speaking both of those feats are about the same level, Valkyrie's was more fleshed out though.

Can't say I agree that jumping between multiple space ships taking them out in the middle of a high speed dogfight and then jumping back to her own ship is objectively on the same level as taking out one and falling to the ground.

And if Loki had the Casket of Ancient Winters he would beat Valkyrie too. It's not fair to compare an instance where a character used an ancient artifact that's powerful enough to freeze a planet to an instance where they fought using hand to hand skills and knives.

My point was it's a speed feat that shows Loki as faster than Heimdall. He isn't even holding the casket when Heimdall starts swinging his sword but he conjures it and freezes Heimdall before he's hit.

Going by their knife fight Valkyrie's faster than Loki.

Remember the scene in Thor 1 where Loki tells Heimdall "You have a great power, does Odin fear you?", it shows you why he felt the need to use a power up to take on Heimdall.

Loki's not wrong, Heimdall definitely has great power. He can see/hear everything in the universe, reach across the universe telepathically and summon the bifrost. Those are incredible powers.

In a close quarters fight those powers don't really help though which leaves Heimdall as a formidable Asgardian warrior. Probably more formidable than Loki but I'm not convinced he could beat Val.

Heimdall being overcome on the bridge was just PIS to give Korg a reason to give another cool one liner. Heimdall was kicking thiose undead Asgardians ass with ease the whole movie up until that point. Also it was Valkyrie's first film and she was a main character, gotta have her shine since she's the new kid on the block

If we're going meta then yeah, it happened because the writers wanted Val to be badass and Korg to rescue Heimdall.

In story though, Val is badass and Heimdall was overwhelmed.

On the bridge Heimdall was overwhelmed by weight of numbers -and couldn't keep up with his offence and defence (the only reason Thor dealt to them was his immense strength and lightning powers which allowed him to take out groups of them at once) - and Heimdall was facing the bulk of the zombie army, whereas Val was fighting less of them at once.

I suspect that if Val had been swarmed by a similar number of zombie warriors, she too would have been injured, and eventually overwhelmed.

Heimdall takes a slash to his leg fighting two warriors, manages to kill them but is kicked over and almost killed by a third before Korg shows up. Credit where it's due when Led Zeppelin starts playing we see him recover and take out four of them/cover the retreat onto the ship.

In the same scene we see Val standing alone on the far end of the bifrost, we see all of these guys charging towards her, she takes out the first two and then the camera cuts away but just look at how many there were:

about a minute later we get a high angle shot of her with a pile of corpses behind her taking out four more of them. They had every chance to overwhelm her.

 

[BigThor]

Can't say I agree that jumping between multiple space ships taking them out in the middle of a high speed dogfight and then jumping back to her own ship is objectively on the same level as taking out one and falling to the ground.

The actual ship Heimdall defeats is a lot larger and much much much more impressive than any of the ships Valkyrie took down. I feel that balances out with Valkyrie taking out more actual ships and being in the middle of a dog fight.

My point was it's a speed feat that shows Loki as faster than Heimdall. He isn't even holding the casket when Heimdall starts swinging his sword but he conjures it and freezes Heimdall before he's hit.

Going by their knife fight Valkyrie's faster than Loki.

Loki's not wrong, Heimdall definitely has great power. He can see/hear everything in the universe, reach across the universe telepathically and summon the bifrost. Those are incredible powers.

In a close quarters fight those powers don't really help though which leaves Heimdall as a formidable Asgardian warrior. Probably more formidable than Loki but I'm not convinced he could beat Val.

Heimdall was also swinging a massive sword almost the size his entire body, not hand knives like Val and Loki so he should lose a bit of speed

If we're going meta then yeah, it happened because the writers wanted Val to be badass and Korg to rescue Heimdall.

In story though, Val is badass and Heimdall was overwhelmed.

Yep

 

[ernesth100]

"You're powers are inconsequential compared to mine."

 

[Batmannerism]

C

Heimdall takes a slash to his leg fighting two warriors, manages to kill them but is kicked over and almost killed by a third before Korg shows up. Credit where it's due when Led Zeppelin starts playing we see him recover and take out four of them/cover the retreat onto the ship.

In the same scene we see Val standing alone on the far end of the bifrost, we see all of these guys charging towards her, she takes out the first two and then the camera cuts away but just look at how many there were:

about a minute later we get a high angle shot of her with a pile of corpses behind her taking out four more of them. They had every chance to overwhelm her.

Although Heimdall had probably killed a few zombie warriors before the one that got him, you might be on to something there, I will re-watch - but until then, I will defer to your wisdom.

At least we can say that she wouldn't be able to sneak up on him t:

 

[BigThor]

"You're powers are inconsequential compared to mine."

One of the most badass lines in the film.

 

[ernesth100]

One of the most badass lines in the film.

Honestly, off that line alone. I believe Iron Man was about to get wrecked had Peter not given him that idea.

 

[Thör-El]

Honestly, off that line alone. I believe Iron Man was about to get wrecked had Peter not given him that idea.

I think Maw just generally trash talks his opponents. He told the Asgardians they were lucky to be getting murdered by Thanos himself and Dr Strange his magic must be popular with children's parties.

 

[HammerDown]

I watched the movie closely in order to write down all the feats from IW. And from what i saw Ebony Maw owned Doctor Strange in NY, he was calm, collected and in total control of his power and surroundings. It was a sight to behold.

Cull Obsidian had Iron Man twice on the ropes... one of those times Spider-Man came in and helped out while the other was Wong that really saved Iron Man's life. CO was more than a match for IM.

 

[BigThor]

I watched the movie closely in order to write down all the feats from IW. And from what i saw Ebony Maw owned Doctor Strange in NY, he was calm, collected and in total control of his power and surroundings. It was a sight to behold.

Cull Obsidian had Iron Man twice on the ropes... one of those times Spider-Man came in and helped out while the other was Wong that really saved Iron Man's life. CO was more than a match for IM.

Yep both battles was pretty one sided to be honestly, they were somewhat competitive at the beginning then the heroes just started getting trashed.

 

[Thör-El]

I watched the movie closely in order to write down all the feats from IW. And from what i saw Ebony Maw owned Doctor Strange in NY, he was calm, collected and in total control of his power and surroundings. It was a sight to behold.

Except when he was too slow levitating a car to block shrapnel and took a cut to the face. His defences/durability are pretty limited.

He essentially beat Strange by quickly wrapping him in cable and preventing the gesture he needed to make for his next spell. It's a nice speed/skill feat but I think Strange would've won a rematch.

Cull Obsidian had Iron Man twice on the ropes... one of those times Spider-Man came in and helped out while the other was Wong that really saved Iron Man's life. CO was more than a match for IM.

Sure but at the same time he was ragdolled by Iron Man beams, had his killer blow caught by Spidey, got knocked down by a punch from Black Panther and then lost to the Hulkbuster when Bruce barely knew how to pilot it and there were no spare parts. I'd say he's in the top tier, below Valkyrie.

 

[HammerDown]

Except when he was too slow levitating a car to block shrapnel and took a cut to the face. His defences/durability are pretty limited.

He essentially beat Strange by quickly wrapping him in cable and preventing the gesture he needed to make for his next spell. It's a nice speed/skill feat but I think Strange would've won a rematch.

Anyone gets tagged at a certain point. It's just the way it is. Ebony Maw was very confident in his own capabilities and looked to be extremely experienced. He was barely breaking a sweat in NY and when you are that powerful you compensate even if your durability isn't that great... Doctor Strange also is a human and his durability isn't that great either, the problem is getting to this type of adversaries...

I don't know if Doctor Strange would have won in a rematch. Maybe in 2/3 out of 10 because according to what i saw it seemed like EM would likely come out on top of most bouts he would have against DS. Also the Time Stone and it's use is a "cheap trick" in my book because one could argue it could do whatever DS wanted. I rather look at Doctor Strange without the Time Stone and that's why his feats against Thanos are that more impressive. With the stone he still got owned by EM that prevented him from using it.

Sure but at the same time he was ragdolled by Iron Man beams, had his killer blow caught by Spidey, got knocked down by a punch from Black Panther and then lost to the Hulkbuster when Bruce barely knew how to pilot it and there were no spare parts. I'd say he's in the top tier, below Valkyrie.

Cull Obsidian's level was a bit more over the place for sure. But against Iron Man he was doing great. His loss against the Hulkbuster only happened because Banner outsmarted him and used the energy shield as an assistance in taking him out because otherwise CO was wrecking the Hulkbuster suit.

Below Valkyrie? I don't think so at all. She hasn't showed any feats to be considered at Cull Obsidian's level. Cull Obsidian was going against a Bleeding Edge Iron Man.

 

[HammerDown]

Yep both battles was pretty one sided to be honestly, they were somewhat competitive at the beginning then the heroes just started getting trashed.

The Ebony Maw vs Doctor Strange was more one sided for sure.

The other one, Cull Obsidian vs Iron Man was a little bit more over the place with plenty of shots from each opponent but it also showed that CO was taking everything IM was throwing at him and was still somehow coming out on "top" and in better positions.

 

[BigThor]

Except when he was too slow levitating a car to block shrapnel and took a cut to the face. His defences/durability are pretty limited.

He essentially beat Strange by quickly wrapping him in cable and preventing the gesture he needed to make for his next spell. It's a nice speed/skill feat but I think Strange would've won a rematch.

What's stopping Maw from doing the same thing again though, Doctor Strange still has to use hand gestures nothing's changed.

Sure but at the same time he was ragdolled by Iron Man beams, had his killer blow caught by Spidey, got knocked down by a punch from Black Panther and then lost to the Hulkbuster when Bruce barely knew how to pilot it and there were no spare parts. I'd say he's in the top tier, below Valkyrie.

That blast Iron Man hit Cull with would've sent Hulk flying too, it was a super charged blast with FOUR extra cannon's for assistance, In my opinion it is the coolest beam attack Iron Man has every done in the MCU it looked powerful and awesome.

That was the ONLY time Iron Man sent Cull flying though, Cull literally shrugged off every other repulsor blast and RAGDOLLED Iron Man for the remainder of the fight. Yeah I agree Spider-Man catching Cull's hammer made him look bad, but that was his only "true" low showing of the film imo. While he was knocked down from a punch from Black Panther, it was also a punch powered by the kinetic energy of his suit.

Here's a remind that BP's kinetic punch ain't no b****

[YT]_sW3UKVKOfE[/YT]

Below Valkyrie? I don't think so at all. She hasn't showed any feats to be considered at Cull Obsidian's level. Cull Obsidian was going against a Bleeding Edge Iron Man.

Bleeding Edge IM would probably be too much for Valkryie, but while Cull has a huge strength advantage Val could probably pull out a win using her speed, skill and Asgardian sword.