MCU Fight: Hela vs Kurse

[jaqua99]

I just don't see Hela having any part of it. Thanos' quest is spiritual, as the Russos have said. As far as this thread goes, Fin (dont feel like quoting), Hela still wins, but she was definitely not OP. Just very powerful, and as I said, near the very top of the trans tier. But it seems as if some people are putting her beyond that.

Dormammu, Surtur and Odin by history were OP. Hela was just very very powerful.

All I am saying is I think this is closer than people think, since Thor that took a beating from Kurse wasn't any less durable. Kurse was undead (Loki stabbing him did nothing), he was clearly stronger than Thor, Hulk, or Hela, and it took a mini singularity to remove him from the fight. Hela still wins, and she may not take much damage at all because of her durability and healing, but it will take her a solid 10 minutes. Which is a fair amount of time.

As far as Hela disappearing before Surtur's strike. That's too ambiguous. To me, it looked like that was Surtur's sword initially making contact with her structure. And comic Thanos/Hela isn't like Hela became a replacement of death. Bringing her back because of her popularity to pull the strings would be a mistake..that isn't natural story telling. Build up a villain and his story for 8 years, only to have him secretly working with a recently introduced character who is pulling the strings because the actress is popular is bad. Especially when her as an antagonist was relevant to a different plot, which provided the hero closure.

And as far as Thanos/Hela in the comics, it was pretty brief and irrelevant. Wasn't significant to Thanos' character, given that in canon right now he is doing something else unrelated to Hela. In an alternate future where Thanos wins. Canon Thanos' only love was the embodiment of death, he and Hela aren't really a thing in the comics from what I can tell.

 

[Fosterson]

Sorry, I disagree with everything here. Hela surviving doesn't undermine anything, and so what if it does?

It'll lessen Ragnarok's replay value if we know that Hela survives anyway. It's a bit like watching Aliens knowing that all of the other characters die at the start of Alien 3 anyway.

It doesn't lessen what Thor did in Ragnarok, he acted like a true hero and made the best decision he possibly could under the circumstances, Hela surviving doesn't change that.

It means that unleashing Ragnarok was completely pointless and in vain. They might as well have not done anything in Ragnarok if Hela survives.

The beginning of Ragnarok strongly hints that she has some sort of teleportation powers (else what else was she doing when she emerged from that swirling green portal?) so the simplest answer could be that she teleported away before being struck with Surtur's sword, if you watch Ragnarok there's a very clear flash of green where Hela is standing just before Surtur's sword hits the ground, having watched Ragnarok in HD as recently as yesterday, it's pretty clear that something is going on there.

Having just watched that scene again, I think you're reading too far into this. Also, Hela was never shown to be able to teleport herself off of worlds. If that was the case, then why did she spend half the movie looking for Heimdall's sword? It was explicitly stated in the movie that she needed the Bifrost to travel from one realm to another. This would just create a giant plothole.

And again, if Marvel wanted to make it clear that Hela was dead and gone, they would have made that scene way less ambiguous.

How was it ambiguous? We see Hela impaled by a skyscraper-sized sword and then exposed to the equivalent of a thousand Tsar Bomba explosions. How could she possibly survive that?

Again, who said anything about Hela being in love with Thanos? If they are going for a Hela/Thanos connection in the MCU (as the comics universe recently have) then it would likely be the other way around. Comics Thanos is immortal and thousands of years old, if MCU Thanos is the same then he easily could have met Hela before Odin imprisoned her. That's hardly a deal breaker, decent writing can get around that in five minutes flat. As is Hela not overshadowing Thanos, especially if she's mainly kept in the background pulling strings.

If Hela knew Thanos from before, then why didn't he try and stop Odin from imprisoning her? And why did she make no effort to visit Thanos in Ragnarok?

I think, given Hela's popularity (and not to mention Cate Blanchett's star power), not bringing her back somehow would be a bigger mistake. Marvel are constantly being berated for making a majority of their villains one and done, Loki is by far their most popular villain and he's been in multiple films. They have a chance here to silence the critics and bring back a popular villain, not taking that chance would be foolish, especially when Blanchett has openly said how much she enjoyed making Ragnarok and would be up for more Hela.

You should only bring a character back if it serves the interests of the plot, not because they have "star power". It's not as if these movies are lacking in that department. As I said before, bringing Hela back would only create unnecessary complications:

Tony: Thor, who's this crazy chick with horns throwing swords at me?

Thor: Oh yeah, she's my other evil sibling that I never told you about who I thought was dead but apparently isn't.

Given all the other stuff going on in these movies, bringing back Hela would just be cramming even more exposition-laden material into an already jam-packed story.

 

[Finarfiniel]

I just don't see Hela having any part of it. Thanos' quest is spiritual, as the Russos have said. As far as this thread goes, Fin (dont feel like quoting), Hela still wins, but she was definitely not OP. Just very powerful, and as I said, near the very top of the trans tier. But it seems as if some people are putting her beyond that.

Dormammu, Surtur and Odin by history were OP. Hela was just very very powerful.

All I am saying is I think this is closer than people think, since Thor that took a beating from Kurse wasn't any less durable. Kurse was undead (Loki stabbing him did nothing), he was clearly stronger than Thor, Hulk, or Hela, and it took a mini singularity to remove him from the fight. Hela still wins, and she may not take much damage at all because of her durability and healing, but it will take her a solid 10 minutes. Which is a fair amount of time.

As far as Hela disappearing before Surtur's strike. That's too ambiguous. To me, it looked like that was Surtur's sword initially making contact with her structure. And comic Thanos/Hela isn't like Hela became a replacement of death. Bringing her back because of her popularity to pull the strings would be a mistake..that isn't natural story telling. Build up a villain and his story for 8 years, only to have him secretly working with a recently introduced character who is pulling the strings because the actress is popular is bad. Especially when her as an antagonist was relevant to a different plot, which provided the hero closure.

And as far as Thanos/Hela in the comics, it was pretty brief and irrelevant. Wasn't significant to Thanos' character, given that in canon right now he is doing something else unrelated to Hela. In an alternate future where Thanos wins. Canon Thanos' only love was the embodiment of death, he and Hela aren't really a thing in the comics from what I can tell.

As much as I respect your viewpoint and understand it, I really don't see the point of getting into this argument with you again dude, we've had it so many times that I've lost count. But in summary, I disagree. I still think that Hela not being Death itself in the MCU doesn't matter because IW isn't going to be a faithful adaption of IG, it never was. I still think that MCU Thanos will have some kind of love interest, purely because of hints that Brolin himself has made (look at one particular hashtag on this instagram post), and yet we still have absolutely no indication whatsoever of Death being in IW, no casting, no news, no hints, no glimpses in the trailer, nothing. I'm in no way saying that Hela has now been inserted into Thanos' storyline because of her (or Cate Blanchett's) popularity, rather I think that's been the plan all along, to introduce Hela as the main antagonist in Ragnarok and then use her to fill the Death role in IW, meaning that Marvel can use an already established character rather than introduce a whole new one in an already stuffed movie. That jibes with with how the MCU already works and makes a great deal of sense from their point of view.

Oh, and you're wrong about Thanos and Hela in the comics btw, they were last seen together in Thor #700, Thanos has been taking Hela from planet to planet so she can slaughter populations and regain her strength (from being deposed and dethroned in Angela: Queen of Hel), and Jason Aaron has already confirmed in an interview that they have plans for the future for the pairing. What are they waiting for? I don't know... maybe a certain movie, perhaps? Marvel love synergising their movie and comics universes where possible.

Oh, and I still think she's OP.

 

[Finarfiniel]

It'll lessen Ragnarok's replay value if we know that Hela survives anyway. It's a bit like watching Aliens knowing that all of the other characters die at the start of Alien 3 anyway.

It means that unleashing Ragnarok was completely pointless and in vain. They might as well have not done anything in Ragnarok if Hela survives.

Having just watched that scene again, I think you're reading too far into this. Also, Hela was never shown to be able to teleport herself off of worlds. If that was the case, then why did she spend half the movie looking for Heimdall's sword? It was explicitly stated in the movie that she needed the Bifrost to travel from one realm to another. This would just create a giant plothole.

How was it ambiguous? We see Hela impaled by a skyscraper-sized sword and then exposed to the equivalent of a thousand Tsar Bomba explosions. How could she possibly survive that?

If Hela knew Thanos from before, then why didn't he try and stop Odin from imprisoning her? And why did she make no effort to visit Thanos in Ragnarok?

You should only bring a character back if it serves the interests of the plot, not because they have "star power". It's not as if these movies are lacking in that department. As I said before, bringing Hela back would only create unnecessary complications:

Tony: Thor, who's this crazy chick with horns throwing swords at me?

Thor: Oh yeah, she's my other evil sibling that I never told you about who I thought was dead but apparently isn't.

Given all the other stuff going on in these movies, bringing back Hela would just be cramming even more exposition-laden material into an already jam-packed story.

Eh, I really can't be bothered to reply to all this individually because it makes a post unnecessarily long and difficult to read. In short, why on earth would Hela surviving harm Ragnarok's replay value? I don't get that viewpoint at all, it might do for you, but it certainly wouldn't for me and I'm guessing many other people. By that logic, TWS revealing that Hydra survived and has infiltrated Shield somehow renders Cap's efforts in TFA null and void and harms that film's replay value? I don't think so.

Hela needed the Bifrost sword for one very simple reason - even if she can teleport, she would only be able to teleport herself. How would she take her army and her giant wolf with her? She may be super powerful, but she still needs her army because she can't be everywhere at once. Hence, her need to transport them all via the Bifrost. Remember the scene where Hela and Skurge are in the Asgardian stronghold and they hear Thor banging Gungnir on the ground in the throne room? The stronghold was seemingly miles and miles away from the palace which stands in the centre of Asgard and yet Thor is still banging Gungnir on the ground when Hela enters the throne room (without Skurge), so unless Thor carried on doing that for a few hours while he waited for Hela to travel all the way from the stronghold to the palace (which seems unlikely), then she had to have teleported there, how else did she get there so quickly? Why wasn't Skurge with her? And again, what exactly was she doing when she first appeared in Norway anyway, if not teleporting? And unless Odin imprisoned her on earth (again, unlikely), that is 'off-world' teleporting, no?

I think you're making things way too overly complicated regarding Hela possibly appearing in IW, why on earth would Thor and co need to have the conversation about who Hela is on camera anyway?

If I'm honest, I don't know better than anyone else whether Hela is in IW (in truth, if they do make her involved with Thanos I predict she will only have a tiny cameo in IW which could then lead to an expanded role in A4), but examining the evidence and little clues from various sources over the past couple of years, I suspect she will, and I suspect that it's been Marvel Studio's intention all along. I may be completely wrong, but I'm hardly the only person who thinks this way, try googling 'Thanos and Hela', or watch the tons of videos on YouTube (from sources such as Collider, Flicks in the City, Grace Randolph and more) who all share my prediction.

 

[BigThor]

It's amazing how differently people can view the same events. Thor and Valkyrie together were no match for Hela. I think "tossing her around " is an overstatement. Ive watched that clip a few times now and at 0:24 Thor manages to knock over Hela, but otherwise neither he nor Valkyrie manage to injure her, while she tosses Valkyrie like a rag doll and drops Thor twice with blades.
At the end of that scene he's winded and she's as cool as ice.

Theres a very clear reason why Hela is winning this poll. Kurse may have bruised and bloodied Thor but Hela cut out his eye without breaking a sweat. I think it would be an epic fight, but I cant see Kurse standing at the end of it.

He also literally picked her up and threw her, if that isn't the literal definition of tossing someone around idk what he is.

I didn't say he HURT her or was close to DEFEATING her, I just said purely strength wise he seemed in her league. I didn't view anything differently, I simply stated ACTUAL factual events from the fight. You put your own spin and interpretation on my words and that's not my problem.

 

[Batmannerism]

He also literally picked her up and threw her, if that isn't the literal definition of tossing someone around idk what he is.

I didn't say he HURT her or was close to DEFEATING her, I just said purely strength wise he seemed in her league. I didn't view anything differently, I simply stated ACTUAL factual events from the fight. You put your own spin and interpretation on my words and that's not my problem.

Calm down, there's no need for caps here.

What part of the clip does Thor toss Hela ? If you're right , and ive missed it, I'm happy to admit it, but i didnt see him throw her, other than the knockdown at 0:24 when he slams his sword into the Bifrost.

As for whether that makes them equal in physical strength, not really enough evidence to go on - Thor v Kurse is clearer as we see them trade punches and Kurse shrugs off Thor's hits and then knocks him into the hillside.

Hela v Valkyrie, also easier as Hela easily blocks a blow from Val and then tosses her effortlessly.

Even then, as all these characters are super strong and could easily lift each other's bodyweight - unless theyre actively resisting each other its hard to say who's stronger unless they've had a bench press contest.

Hope Hela isnt dead, as she's too good to be a one shot villain - although I suspect it may be tough to bring her back, as Blanchett is in huge demand.

 

[Fosterson]

Eh, I really can't be bothered to reply to all this individually because it makes a post unnecessarily long and difficult to read. In short, why on earth would Hela surviving harm Ragnarok's replay value? I don't get that viewpoint at all, it might do for you, but it certainly wouldn't for me and I'm guessing many other people. By that logic, TWS revealing that Hydra survived and has infiltrated Shield somehow renders Cap's efforts in TFA null and void and harms that film's replay value? I don't think so.

Except Cap didn't unleash the apocalypse in order to stop HYDRA.

Hela needed the Bifrost sword for one very simple reason - even if she can teleport, she would only be able to teleport herself. How would she take her army and her giant wolf with her? She may be super powerful, but she still needs her army because she can't be everywhere at once.

Hela's army were a bunch of worthless mooks who were getting shredded by regular bullets from Skurge's M16s. Given that she was able to solo Asgard's entire army without even breaking sweat, I can't see her needing those zombies to slaughter all of the Frost Giants, Vanir, Elves etc. Honestly, the only realm she'd have a problem with would be Earth, and unless we spam nukes at her, I can't see us putting her down. Oh, and the Earth-bound Avengers would be useless against her, with the possible exception of Vision.

Hence, her need to transport them all via the Bifrost. Remember the scene where Hela and Skurge are in the Asgardian stronghold and they hear Thor banging Gungnir on the ground in the throne room? The stronghold was seemingly miles and miles away from the palace which stands in the centre of Asgard and yet Thor is still banging Gungnir on the ground when Hela enters the throne room (without Skurge), so unless Thor carried on doing that for a few hours while he waited for Hela to travel all the way from the stronghold to the palace (which seems unlikely), then she had to have teleported there, how else did she get there so quickly? Why wasn't Skurge with her?

Once again, you're reading too far into that scene. Who's to say she didn't just jump that distance, like Thor did later in the movie?

And again, what exactly was she doing when she first appeared in Norway anyway, if not teleporting? And unless Odin imprisoned her on earth (again, unlikely), that is 'off-world' teleporting, no?

That could have just been the "doors" to her prison opening.

I think you're making things way too overly complicated regarding Hela possibly appearing in IW, why on earth would Thor and co need to have the conversation about who Hela is on camera anyway?

Because they can't assume that everyone who's watching IW has also seen Ragnarok.

I may be completely wrong, but I'm hardly the only person who thinks this way, try googling 'Thanos and Hela', or watch the tons of videos on YouTube (from sources such as Collider, Flicks in the City, Grace Randolph and more) who all share my prediction.

And that means jack-all. I remember Collider speculating that Sif would appear in Civil War. It's just baseless speculation at this point.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Except Cap didn't unleash the apocalypse in order to stop HYDRA.

Hela's army were a bunch of worthless mooks who were getting shredded by regular bullets from Skurge's M16s. Given that she was able to solo Asgard's entire army without even breaking sweat, I can't see her needing those zombies to slaughter all of the Frost Giants, Vanir, Elves etc. Honestly, the only realm she'd have a problem with would be Earth, and unless we spam nukes at her, I can't see us putting her down. Oh, and the Earth-bound Avengers would be useless against her, with the possible exception of Vision.

Once again, you're reading too far into that scene. Who's to say she didn't just jump that distance, like Thor did later in the movie?

That could have just been the "doors" to her prison opening.

Because they can't assume that everyone who's watching IW has also seen Ragnarok.

And that means jack-all. I remember Collider speculating that Sif would appear in Civil War. It's just baseless speculation at this point.

1. So? What difference does that make exactly? A revelation in the second film still essentially nullified the ending of the first, but I don't see anyone claiming that deems TFA un-rewatchable.

2. Of course Hela would need her army. Again, she can't be everywhere at once, no matter how powerful she is. She needed her army on Asgard to round up the errant Asgardians that were rebelling against her, she would equally need them elsewhere, otherwise conquering an entire planet would take a heck of a lot longer if she tried to do it alone.

3. So I'm reading too much into that scene, but you saying that she could have 'jumped' there (which she showed absolutely no ability to do at any stage during the film) isn't? I'm still not seeing any better explanation from you, at least mine has some basis in what we actually see in the film.

4. So these 'doors to her prison' just so happened to be in that random field in Norway, exactly where Odin just died and Thor and Loki are hanging out? Wow, that's super convenient! Odin couldn't have transported her there or opened those mystical doors, he was already dead. So it follows that, unless Hela was already on earth (why would Odin hold a being as powerful and dangerous as Hela on earth?) she must have opened those doors herself. What exactly is opening a portal between two places or different realms/dimensions but teleportation, exactly? It's no different to what Dr Strange does with a sling ring.

5. You could make the exact same argument about every single MCU movie following Iron Man. Such is the nature of a shared universe with the breadth of the MCU. They couldn't assume that everyone that saw Ragnarok also saw AoU, but they still put in multiple references to Ultron and the Battle of Sokovia,the Quinjet and how Hulk arrived on Sakaar, e.t.c, with no further explanations given. The GA don't really care, they just want to go watch a movie and enjoy it, they're not going to overthink it that much.

6. I'm not saying it means 'jack-all', I'm pointing out that I'm hardly the only person that has come to the conclusion that Hela would make a handy stand in for Death in IW/A4, it's a theory that has been about for years and multiple people such as Kevin Feige and Cate Blanchett have been asked about it and they've all given very vague, non-committal 'you'll have to wait and see' answers. If Hela truly will have absolutely no role in IW or A4, what really would be all the point of the ambiguity in those answers? Why couldn't Feige have just come out and confirmed that she isn't in those films and they have no further plans for the character at this current time? That's not going to spoil anything in IW, it would just clear up a rumour. But no one will ever give a straight answer which is suspicious to me.

 

[BigThor]

Calm down, there's no need for caps here.

What part of the clip does Thor toss Hela ? If you're right , and ive missed it, I'm happy to admit it, but i didnt see him throw her, other than the knockdown at 0:24 when he slams his sword into the Bifrost.

As for whether that makes them equal in physical strength, not really enough evidence to go on - Thor v Kurse is clearer as we see them trade punches and Kurse shrugs off Thor's hits and then knocks him into the hillside.

Hela v Valkyrie, also easier as Hela easily blocks a blow from Val and then tosses her effortlessly.

Even then, as all these characters are super strong and could easily lift each other's bodyweight - unless theyre actively resisting each other its hard to say who's stronger unless they've had a bench press contest.

Hope Hela isnt dead, as she's too good to be a one shot villain - although I suspect it may be tough to bring her back, as Blanchett is in huge demand.

Oh no bro I'm not upset just a conversation between two good bros , I just didn't want my point to be taken out of context.

And it's at 29 secs, but the way it's cut you can't tell if Hela was resisting or not. Either way Thor still couldn't actually kill her or defeat her due to her durability, skill, and healing.

 

[Batmannerism]

Oh no bro I'm not upset just a conversation between to good bros , I just didn't want my point to be taken out of context.

And it's at 29 secs, but they was it's cut you can't tell if Hela was resisting or not. Either way Thor still couldn't actually kill her or defeat her due to her durability, skill, and healing.

 

[BigThor]

 

[NesOut]

She was very much OP, trying to downplay her single-handedly slaughtering an entire army of Einhjar without even breaking a sweat and catching and destroying Mjolnir with one hand won't change that. And they were both feats that she accomplished when she was nowhere near her full power, having not been on Asgard at all yet, or for only a very short length of time. We have no idea how powerful Hela could have ended up becoming, as the true heir to the throne of Asgard she very likely would have become a prime Odin-level threat, that was the implication and the reason why a combination of powered up Thor, Valkyrie, Hulk, Loki, Heimdall and the remaining Asgardians and escaped Sakaraans couldn't take her down. It was essentially the whole point and twist of Ragnarok, Thor having to start Ragnarok because it was the only way to defeat her. Remember that prime Odin defeated prime Surtur in the past, we know that from what Thor said at the beginning, so logic follows that Hela at full power could take Surtur down. She wasn't there yet, having only been queen for a very short time (she wasn't prime Hela, if you will), so the result was the opposite.

I do agree that Kurse was physically stronger than Hela, and Hela and Thor at the end of Ragnarok were definitely of fairly equivalent strength levels too (they both clearly had the ability to throw the other but I'd still give the edge to Hela because remember, she was fighting off the extremely strong Valkyrie as well as Thor, they were effectively double teaming her), but brute strength isn't everything. What clearly puts Hela over the edge here is the fact that she is nigh invulnerable. So Kurse could spend all day putting the pound on her but it wouldn't make any difference, she'd just spring back and carry on virtually unharmed each time. And in the meantime launch thousands of blades at Kurse and slice him to shreds. Fight over. That's why Hela's kicking the **** out of this poll, the results speak for themselves.



That's pretty silly reasoning. If Marvel Studios wanted to keep Hela possibly being in IW and/or A4 a secret, they're hardly going to reveal that now, three months before release. There's been absolutely zero sign of a Death character being in IW either, despite Josh Brolin clearly hinting on instagram that Thanos is indeed a big purple guy in love in the MCU. Marvel left the ending of Ragnarok so ambiguous for a reason, it clearly leaves the door open for them to bring Hela back if they want to.

Hela was in Asgard for thousands of years before her banishment and Prime Odin was still stronger than her, she isn't surpassing Prime Odin, the one who could is Thor if he draws all power of Asgard ( and we know he can draw power from Asgard just like Hela and Odin ) he would be the strongest asgardian we know, because Odin said himself that Thor is stronger than him.

Hela was just a lot older than Thor, she already had used Mjolnir and learned how to use the full extent of her power and how to draw all power from Asgard, while the God of Thunder only learned how to summon his power without Mjolnir in the movie, naturally Thor was born stronger, hell, he ko'd Asgardforce Hela for 2 minutes, if the fight was in Norway, both without Asgardforce, a fair fight, full power Thor would destroy her.

That said, Kurse really can't defeat Hela, she's one of the most durable characters in the MCU and her healing factor is off the charts, Kurse's bests durability feats is tanking a charged Mjolnir throw from bloodlust Thor without major damages, laughing at Thor's punches and laughing when Loki put a spear through his chest, all impressive feats, but Hela trumps him in all of them, she can be impaled too ( and heals in a second, Kurse not ), she can laugh at Thor's punches and even the biggest lightning in history didn't kill her.

She would stomps him with her blades.

 

[jaqua99]

Asgardforce? No such thing. That was Thor's power

 

[Finarfiniel]

Hela was in Asgard for thousands of years before her banishment and Prime Odin was still stronger than her, she isn't surpassing Prime Odin, the one who could is Thor if he draws all power of Asgard ( and we know he can draw power from Asgard just as Hela and Odin ) he would be the strongest asgardian we know, because Odin said himself that Thor is stronger than him.

Hela was just a lot older than Thor, she already had used Mjolnir and learned how to use the full extent of her power and how to draw all power from Asgard, when the God of Thunder only learned how to summon his power without Mjolnir in the movie, naturally Thor was born stronger, hell, he ko'd Hela with Asgardforce for 2 minutes, if the fight was in Norway, both without Asgardforce, a fair fight, full power Thor would destroy her.

That said, Kurse really can't defeat Hela, she's one of the most durable characters in the MCU and her healing factor is off the charts, Kurse's bests durability feats is tanking a charged Mjolnir throw from bloodlust Thor without major damages, laughing at Thor's punches and laughing when Loki put a spear through his chest, all impressive feats, but Hela trumps him in all of them, she can be impaled too ( and heals in a second, Kurse not ), she can laugh at Thor's punches and even the biggest lightning in history didn't kill her.

She would stomps him with her blades.

You clearly have a very different interpretation of this than I do. Of course Hela wasn't more powerful than Odin before her banishment, he was much older than her and he was the King of Asgard. My interpretation is that when Odin died, the inherent power that comes with that title (the 'Odinforce' if you will) passed to Hela, being his firstborn child and the true heir to the throne. That's why Hela is more powerful than Thor, because he wasn't really Odin's oldest child as he always believed he was. When Odin said that Thor was 'stronger' than him in Thor's vision, he wasn't talking about power, he was talking about strength of character. Remember, Thor didn't defeat Hela through raw power, he defeated her using guile and proving he was more worthy of the throne than her, putting the people of Asgard and their safety above everything else.

Hela's power would grow the longer she spent on Asgard, Odin himself said so at the beginning. That implies to me that given enough time she eventually would have become as powerful as prime Odin was. That's exactly why Thor had to take her down when he did, he couldn't just cut his losses and escape with the surviving Asgardians without dealing with her. If he didn't her power would have grown and she eventually could have become a universe level threat as she conquered the Nine Realms and then moved on to the rest of the cosmos. Hence, Thor could never defeat Hela using his power alone because she simply outclasses him in every way by virtue of being Odin's firstborn.

 

[NesOut]

Asgardforce? No such thing. That was Thor's power

I didn't say Thor was drawing the power of Asgard, but Hela was.

Thor has his power the way Hela had her powers in Norway, but both could become more powerful by draw power from Asgard, Hela did take all the power from Asgard when she arrived in the asgardian homeland.

 

[Batmannerism]

You clearly have a very different interpretation of this than I do. Of course Hela wasn't more powerful than Odin before her banishment, he was much older than her and he was the King of Asgard. My interpretation is that when Odin died, the inherent power that comes with that title (the 'Odinforce' if you will) passed to Hela, being his firstborn child and the true heir to the throne. That's why Hela is more powerful than Thor, because he wasn't really Odin's oldest child as he always believed he was. When Odin said that Thor was 'stronger' than him in Thor's vision, he wasn't talking about power, he was talking about strength of character. Remember, Thor didn't defeat Hela through raw power, he defeated her using guile and proving he was more worthy of the throne than her, putting the people of Asgard and their safety above everything else.

Hela's power would grow the longer she spent on Asgard, Odin himself said so at the beginning. That implies to me that given enough time she eventually would have become as powerful as prime Odin was. That's exactly why Thor had to take her down when he did, he couldn't just cut his losses and escape with the surviving Asgardians without dealing with her. If he didn't her power would have grown and she eventually could have become a universe level threat as she conquered the Nine Realms and then moved on to the rest of the cosmos. Hence, Thor could never defeat Hela using his power alone because she simply outclasses him in every way by virtue of being Odin's firstborn.

Yeah, it looked that way to me too. When Odin tells Thor he's stronger I think that he meant Thor could make the difficult decision - of letting Ragnarok occur and ending Hela's threat to the universe - rather than what Odin did which was to simply banish her and postpone the problem, rather than actually dealing with it.

At no point did it look like Thor could overpower her - so he had to win through making a very difficult choice, which is what we hope real leaders do.

 

[jaqua99]

Yes. I don't think the Odinforce exists.

It does seem like there is a power in age thing. Thor has gotten stronger. Hela was stronger than Thor. So there seems to be some correlation. But the odinforce/Odin's power getting passed down after he dies..it isn't in the MCU.