MCU Fight: Hela Vs. Thor (Rematch)

[jaqua99]

Thor with moderate difficulty. People gave Thanos an edge over Hel, Thor gets it too.

Dont forget, Thor KO'd Hela for a few minutes with the big lightning. She recovered quickly, but was out for 2 minutes. The delay of time implied it, as did either the script state so, or a movie book.

Thor has been upgraded. If we look at his fights with Hela, he didn't "lose", he just got his ass kicked. He was never close to being KO'd, and honestly, Hela hasnt shown she can KO Thor. Its either kill, or lose.

Thor has durability feats, and strength feats that put him past Hela physically at this point. Hela couldnt do what Thor did in space. Yes, different writers and different contexts, but he still survived a star and opened up a massive structure.

I can't see Hela outlasting Thor if his bombarding lightning.

I see Thor engaging Hela with her getting an upper hand, dodging and parying his hammer strikes, much like before. Thor takes to the sky, and starts bombarding lightning. Some hit her, and Thor keeps distance. Hela launches swords, some hit Thor, a lot disinegrates. He falls, she comes back in for the kill, and he blocks with stormbreaker. They engage in more hand to hand, and she gets Thor pinned down. He calls another lightning bolt that launches her off him. Takes back to the sky, and bombards her with lightning, which kind of rag dolls her. He then sweeps in flying and hits her with a lightning uppercut storm breaker strike. If she isn't dead, shes out cold.

Hela isnt tanking storm breaker.

 

[Spider-Fan]

She never KO'd him cause she was too busy basically killing him. Also, the part of her being unconscious never made it into the movie. Screenplay doesn't matter because that is never shown. Thor himself in Ragnarok says "It did nothing" Thor spent the whole movie getting destroyed by her. Let's not undersell that. Thor also didn't fight anyone outside of Outriders once he got Stormbreaker. He surprised Thanos, but I wouldn't call that a fight.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

If the fight happens now it would be a diminished Hela, as her source of power is gone.

Disregarding that aspect it's a tough fight and it's still certainly is possible that Thor beats Hela now.

Stormbreaker fought through a beam from the complete Infinity Gauntlet, so it's certainly put into question whether Hela could block it at all. We've also never before seen Thor on the level of power where he can just fly straight through enormous space ships (that are likely very strong as they are Thanos war ships) to tear them apart and cause them to explode, only to emerge unscathed himself (although that latter part is less impressive than surviving the full force of a star). Thor should be powerful enough to defeat Hela.

That said, Hela is still incredibly powerful and a very skilled fighter. Her skill does seem to outshine Thor's, although the dynamic changes when he can attack with significantly more force, and she's still powerful enough to hurt him (although very possibly less so, as Stormbreaker healed Thor from life threatening wounds), so it will be a fight that I think both can win.

In the end I'll pick the upgraded Thor.

 

[BigThor]

She never KO'd him cause she was too busy basically killing him. Also, the part of her being unconscious never made it into the movie. Screenplay doesn't matter because that is never shown. Thor himself in Ragnarok says "It did nothing" Thor spent the whole movie getting destroyed by her. Let's not undersell that. Thor also didn't fight anyone outside of Outriders once he got Stormbreaker. He surprised Thanos, but I wouldn't call that a fight.

You're right, Thor can't beat a completed IG wielding Thanos in a straight up fight. However let's not undersell it, Thanos was suprised several times throughout the film by several different charaters lets review how those played out. Spider-Man suprised him using Strange's portals, Star-Lord suprised him with a bomb, Drax suprisef him with hid knives, he was suprised by being hit with a freakin spacecraft, and even by heavy hitters such as Doctor Strange and Iron Man (with a building sized piece of Ebony Maw's ship).

None of that did anything whatsoever to him, meanwhile Thor's suprise attack ragdolled him, overpowered a beam from the completed IG and impaled him giving him a grievous injury causing him to retreat.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You're right, Thor can't beat a completed IG wielding Thanos in a straight up fight. However to be fair, Thanos was suprised several times throughout the film by several different charaters lets review how those played out. Spider-Man suprised him using Strange's portals, Star-Lord suprised him with a bomb, Drax suprisef him with hid knives, he was suprised by being hit with a freakin spacecraft, and even by heavy hitters such as Doctor Strange and Iron Man (with a building sized piece of Ebony Maw's ship).

None of that did anything whatsoever to him, meanwhile Thor's suprise attack ragdolled him, overpowered a beam from the completed IG and impaled him giving him a grievous injury causing him to retreat.

As noted earlier, I don't discount the damage Thor did to Thanos. Thor is capable of dealing high amounts of damage. No argument. But if Thanos was not completely caught off guard, I don't think that his blow would have been landed as easily as it was. That's my point. Thanos also had a tendency to absorb damage more than Hela, which is clearly a mistake Thanos won't make next time. But Hela, though she took hits, dodged more.

 

[BigThor]

As noted earlier, I don't discount the damage Thor did to Thanos. Thor is capable of dealing high amounts of damage. No argument. But if Thanos was not completely caught off guard, I don't think that his blow would have been landed as easily as it was. That's my point.

The initial attacks probably wouldn't have, but the second attack probably was gonna happen anyway. I mean what more could Thanos do than shooting a beam made up of all 6 Infinity Stones?

It's almost as if Stormbreaker has a weird overpowered deux ex machina immunity to Infinity Stones.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The initial attacks probably wouldn't have, but the second attack probably was gonna happen anyway. I mean what more could Thanos do than shooting a beam made up of all 6 Infinity Stones?

Used the Tesseract to teleport. Or roll to the left/right. Turned Stormbreaker into a pillow with the Aether. Stopped time and moved to the left/right. Do I need to keep coming up with ideas?

 

[Stormborn]

Whilst Thor was inarguably losing to Hela in Ragnarok, he put up a serious fight and showed abilities which will help him for the rematch:

Thor lands the first hit in the throne room fight against Hela but unfortunately, he was wielding a weapon not powerful enough to hurt her:

Thor's lightning ragdolls Hela, stunning her enough that she lands gracelessly making a crater hundreds of feet below, leaving her out of the fight for the next two minutes (which according to the script is because the lightning knocked her out):

Thor's lightning disintegrates Hela's projectiles:

Whilst Hela has an edge in skill, once Thor unlocks his lightning he has her on the backfoot at times:

Thor eventually goes down because he takes his eye off the fight to tell his people to flee:

These gifs are in chronological order, we've seen him take multiple stab wounds but other than the eye (presumably too complicated for his healing factor) he completely recovers and does this:

When you combine that with the incredible durability, strength and lightning feats we saw in Infinity War and - most importantly - a nigh unblockable weapon (Stormbreaker powered through the Infinity Gauntlet's blast) that can one-shot ridiculously durable beings (if Hela takes the kind of hit Thanos did it'll have a similar result) I think it's a winning combination.

For anyone that missed BigThor's post on the last page these are the feats I'm talking about:

To remind everyone how much of a boost Thor got in IW, he may even be a bit too OP even for my liking (never thought I would say that).

Survives a Power Stone explosion that was actually intended to kill him (unlike the other times it was casually used in the film)

Pulls open and holds open the gigantic Iris of the Nidavellir forge (while resisting pressure from the Neutron Star)

Withstands the full force of a Neutron Star

Plays tug of war with Rocket's ship and dislodges Nidavellir's frozen colossal Mega Rings (which the producers state is the size of a small moon)

Summons the Bifrost

Casually slices through ships that are able to survive atmospheric re-entry

Overpowers a beam made from all 6 stones in the completed Infinity Gauntlet

 

[BigThor]

Used the Tesseract to teleport. Or roll to the left/right. Turned Stormbreaker into a pillow with the Aether. Stopped time and moved to the left/right. Do I need to keep coming up with ideas?

I meant an actual in character thing to do, you know since he didn't do any of those things during combat in the film.

And as I said earlier, Stormbreaker is somehow strangely immune to the effects of the Infinity Stones since it was completely unaffected by all 6 being used simultaneously.

 

[BigThor]

Whilst Thor was inarguably losing to Hela in Ragnarok, he put up a serious fight and showed abilities which will help him for the rematch:

Thor lands the first hit in the throne room fight against Hela but unfortunately, he was wielding a weapon not powerful enough to hurt her:

Thor's lightning ragdolls Hela, stunning her enough that she lands gracelessly making a crater hundreds of feet below, leaving her out of the fight for the next two minutes (which according to the script is because the lightning knocked her out):

Thor's lightning disintegrates Hela's projectiles:

Whilst Hela has an edge in skill, once Thor unlocks his lightning he has her on the backfoot at times:

Thor eventually goes down because he takes his eye off the fight to tell his people to flee:

These gifs are in chronological order, we've seen him take multiple stab wounds but other than the eye (presumably too complicated for his healing factor) he completely recovers and does this:

When you combine that with the incredible durability, strength and lightning feats we saw in Infinity War and - most importantly - a nigh unblockable weapon (Stormbreaker powered through the Infinity Gauntlet's blast) that can one-shot ridiculously durable beings (if Hela takes the kind of hit Thanos did it'll have a similar result) I think it's a winning combination.

For anyone that missed BigThor's post on the last page these are the feats I'm talking about:

Yeah people seem to forget the competitive nature of their final encounter. A great deal of people even dispute Thor knocking her unconscious with that lightning bolt, but I don't know why else would she be falling so lifelessely.

 

[Batmannerism]

She never KO'd him cause she was too busy basically killing him. Also, the part of her being unconscious never made it into the movie. Screenplay doesn't matter because that is never shown. Thor himself in Ragnarok says "It did nothing" Thor spent the whole movie getting destroyed by her. Let's not undersell that. Thor also didn't fight anyone outside of Outriders once he got Stormbreaker. He surprised Thanos, but I wouldn't call that a fight.

It's tough to say Thor was even close to winning any of his confrontations with Hela - at the end, when Loki unleashes Surtur Thor openly admits he can't beat her, in fact that's the whole point of the movie, it's even in the title - in fact the suggestion that Thor had any other option and could have avoided the hard choice diminishes his development as a character throughout the film.

If he could have defeated Hela he wouldn't have had to sacrifice Asgard. The best he and Valkyrie were achieving was keeping her off balance and stalling her so Loki could chuck crown into the eternal flame and the refugees escape.

Thor with Stormbreaker has a chance of defeating Hela, Thor without Stormbreaker had zero chance.

 

[BigThor]

It's tough to say Thor was even close to winning any of his confrontations with Hela - at the end, when Loki unleashes Surtur Thor openly admits he can't beat her, in fact that's the whole point of the movie, it's even in the title - in fact the suggestion that Thor had any other option and could have avoided the hard choice diminishes his development as a character throughout the film.

If he could have defeated Hela he wouldn't have had to sacrifice Asgard. The best he and Valkyrie were achieving was keeping her off balance and stalling her so Loki could chuck crown into the eternal flame and the refugees escape.

Thor with Stormbreaker has a chance of defeating Hela, Thor without Stormbreaker had zero chance.

That was due to her nigh-invulnerability though, not because she was so much more powerful than him.

In fact, in terms of power I would say they were pretty close after he awakened his full power. Thor just couldn't put her down permanently due to her extreme durability.

 

[Batmannerism]

That was due to her nigh-invulnerability though, not because she was so much more powerful than him.

In fact, in terms of power I would say they were pretty close after he awakened his full power. Thor just couldn't put her down permanently due to her extreme durability.

Agree to disagree. She was demonstrably stronger and tougher than him throughout the film. The best he could do was knock her down while fighting her alongside Valkyrie at the same time . There was no stage at which he even remotely looked like he could kill her.

in the throne room she was obviously toying with him, particularly when she cut out his eye. It's only after his final power up that he can hold his own, with Val's help.

It's tough to argue that Thor was even close to winning that fight when Thor himself says that he can't beat Hela.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I saw no evidence she was anything but way more powerful than Thor even at full power was. Like, WAY more powerful.

 

[hisham]

I voted for thor but I have a doubt that hela didn't fought with her full powers in ragnarok ....in her final movements if she had enough time for preparation she could have given a better fight to surtur

 

[BigThor]

Key words keep beeing ignored I see, I believe I said "after he awakened his full power" his before so throughout the film and the throne room fight doesn't fall under the "after he awakened his full power" character does it?

 

[Spider-Fan]

But the rainbow bridge does count. And on the bridge, he outright says himself that he can't beat her.

 

[BigThor]

But the rainbow bridge does count. And on the bridge, he outright says himself that he can't beat her.

Yes and as I said it was due to her being too durable, which I'm sure it what he was referring to (for the most part) judging from the "I hit her with the biggest lightning blast in the history of lightning and it did nothing" line.

And for the record I DO think she was more powerful as well, I just think her durability was a bigger factor than the offensive power difference. I was okay and actually have grown to prefer her being more powerful, it served the purpose of that film and Thor's character development better.

I don't want Thor to turn into King Deux Ex Machina.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You're acting like that is a small detail, though. It's not. He couldn't hurt her at the height of his power, but her blades could kill him. She also demonstrated higher skill and strength than him.

 

[BigThor]

You're acting like that is a small detail, though. It's not. He couldn't hurt her at the height of his power, but her blades could kill him. She also demonstrated higher skill and strength than him.

Except I'm not.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

But the rainbow bridge does count. And on the bridge, he outright says himself that he can't beat her.

That's pretty obvious as she seemed to be immortal on Asgard. Every wound she got healed instantly and the way to defeat her was to destroy Asgard (and we saw how that differed to elsewhere as her appearance changes as soon as she sets foot there in the film). For this to be a factor in this comparison the fight has to take place on Asgard, so that factor has to be established first.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That's pretty obvious as she seemed to be immortal on Asgard. Every wound she got healed instantly and the way to defeat her was to destroy Asgard (and we saw how that differed to elsewhere as her appearance changes as soon as she sets foot there in the film). For this to be a factor in this comparison the fight has to take place on Asgard, so that factor has to be established first.

True, but to be fair, we don't know what her normal healing rate is since she never sustainted damage outside of Asgard. I am sure it was not as great, but it still could have been same idea.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

True, but to be fair, we don't know what her normal healing rate is since she never sustainted damage outside of Asgard. I am sure it was not as great, but it still could have been same idea.

I think we can be quite sure that it's not as great as her suit was tattered when she came out of her prison, and the moment she sets foot on Asgard it heals up.

She's sure to be very powerful even without Asgard, but a comment about not being able to defeat her while she does seem immortal would be pretty tied to that.

I think this general discussion has good chance to be a long one though as I think good cases can be made for both.

 

[Batmannerism]

I think we can be quite sure that it's not as great as her suit was tattered when she came out of her prison, and the moment she sets foot on Asgard it heals up.

She's sure to be very powerful even without Asgard, but a comment about not being able to defeat her while she does seem immortal would be pretty tied to that.

I think this general discussion has good chance to be a long one though as I think good cases can be made for both.

First thing she did after escaping Hel was effortlessly crush mjolnir like an eggshell - pretty impressive, and that's before she returned to Asgard.

 

[BigThor]

I voted Thor and thinks he wins (60/40) but I agree that cases can be made for both, either could win honestly.

Thor's so much more powerful in IW, I just don't really see their fight in Ragnarok as being an accurate metric for this fight. It's like saying Planet Namek Saga Goku can't beat Raditz because he couldn't beat him back when they fought in the Saiyan Saga even though he's had a massive increase in power since the Saiyan Saga.