MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

Thanos is going to be in the Eternals.

This is not confirmed. And the plot leaks that have come out make me 99% sure the Mad Titan won't be apart of it.

Not to mention he is such a great character, they should really bring out the classic Thanos because the MCU version is basically a smart Hulk with the gauntlet. Comic Thanos is so much more.

So... you want to have Thanos with all his cosmic abilities? Well, good luck with that one, buddy. They nerfed him in IW/EG precisely BECAUSE his comic book version is so OP. It was the only way to have him fit within the power-levels of the existing MCU.

And the fact still remains that bringing back Thanos would render the events of IW/EG utterly pointless and make Tony and Natasha's sacrifices meaningless.
 
This is not confirmed. And the plot leaks that have come out make me 99% sure the Mad Titan won't be apart of it.



So... you want to have Thanos with all his cosmic abilities? Well, good luck with that one, buddy. They nerfed him in IW/EG precisely BECAUSE his comic book version is so OP. It was the only way to have him fit within the power-levels of the existing MCU.

And the fact still remains that bringing back Thanos would render the events of IW/EG utterly pointless and make Tony and Natasha's sacrifices meaningless.
How much you want to bet that young Thanos shows up in Eternals? :o And I'm just saying I wanted to see an alternate version of Thanos since Kang will have a 100 different variants.
 
How much you want to bet that young Thanos shows up in Eternals? :o And I'm just saying I wanted to see an alternate version of Thanos since Kang will have a 100 different variants.

****. I hope Thanos isnt in anything going forward.
Other than GOTG vol 3 and maybe Spider Man, I suspect phase 4 is going to suck ass - and if the writers of Loki do the same amazing ( I.e. crap) job with Thanos that they did with Loki, then ...I just don't want to see that.
 
****. I hope Thanos isnt in anything going forward.
Other than GOTG vol 3 and maybe Spider Man, I suspect phase 4 is going to suck ass - and if the writers of Loki do the same amazing ( I.e. crap) job with Thanos that they did with Loki, then ...I just don't want to see that.
Phase 4 looks bad IMHO. The only one I am looking forward to is Blade. I don't know why Marvel thinks they can lean on B and C list characters and keep making money. They really should do F4 and start to introduce the X-men slowly now, especially with no more Cap and Iron Man and possibly Thor's last money.
 
****. I hope Thanos isnt in anything going forward.
Other than GOTG vol 3 and maybe Spider Man, I suspect phase 4 is going to suck ass - and if the writers of Loki do the same amazing ( I.e. crap) job with Thanos that they did with Loki, then ...I just don't want to see that.

I think there are reasonable grounds to be optimistic about Eternals and Thor: Love and Thunder. I am also somewhat intrigued by Multiverse of Madness.

I'm certainly much less excited about some of the others though.
 
Phase 4 looks bad IMHO. The only one I am looking forward to is Blade. I don't know why Marvel thinks they can lean on B and C list characters and keep making money. They really should do F4

They already announced a Fantastic Four movie.

and start to introduce the X-men slowly now, especially with no more Cap and Iron Man and possibly Thor's last money.

Hemsworth has said that Love and Thunder won't be his last film as Thor.
 
I think there are reasonable grounds to be optimistic about Eternals and Thor: Love and Thunder. I am also somewhat intrigued by Multiverse of Madness.

I'm certainly much less excited about some of the others though.


Mate. With some of the stuff Taika is saying about Love and Thunder I have my doubts- which sucks because the source material is pretty good.

I was okay with the level of humour in Ragnarok because ultimately Thor was still the hero and it was his decisions which saved the day.

I'm worried that LAT will turn him into a complete clown and it will be the Jane Foster show - which is essentially what happened in Loki.

As for that Eternals trailer, it looks like boring ****e, Shang Chi looks more exciting. I don't think the writers and director have the skill to pull off a big cast of diverse characters. The Russos barely managed with Civil and Infinity War.

Also, the whole premise - we have never interfered.....except when we helped humanity develop science, art and agriculture.... well that's kind of symptomatic of today's Marvel writing, we try to tell you something and show you something that completely contradicts it (e.g they tell us Wanda sacrificed something for the townspeople but they show us her enslaving them and them begging her to just kill them).

That kind of stuff makes me very unenthusiastic about phase 4.
 
Mate. With some of the stuff Taika is saying about Love and Thunder I have my doubts- which sucks because the source material is pretty good.

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here. Most of what I've heard from Taika and the cast has been that the movie is very whacky and silly, but that it also has a strong emotional core. Tessa Thompson called it "very touching".

I think that if Taika allows the emotional moments to land a bit more heavily than he did in Ragnarok, L&T should be on the right course

I'm worried that LAT will turn him into a complete clown and it will be the Jane Foster show - which is essentially what happened in Loki.

Both Taika and Natalie Portman have said in interviews that Hemsworth-Thor is still the main character and that Jane is a supporting character. Heck, even the t-shirts the crew were given kinda imply this:

E36S8bYXoAQRaJ3


Thor is front and centre, with Jane and Valkyrie clearly in a supporting role.

There would be no reason for them to relegate Thor to a side-character in his own movie, when he's more popular than ever, after Ragnarok and IW/EG. People LOVE Hemsworth's portrayal of Thor now, and he's clearly happy to carry on playing the Odinson for as long as Marvel want him to.

As for that Eternals trailer, it looks like boring ****e, Shang Chi looks more exciting. I don't think the writers and director have the skill to pull off a big cast of diverse characters.

Chloe Zhao is an Academy-Award winner. She definitely is more than qualified. The movie could still turn out bad, but I don't think there's any reason to think that yet.

Also, the whole premise - we have never interfered.....except when we helped humanity develop science, art and agriculture

I think the idea is that they haven't interfered since humanity's early days.

Granted, all of these movies could end up being terrible, but I prefer to take a wait-and-see attitude.
 
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They already announced a Fantastic Four movie.



Hemsworth has said that Love and Thunder won't be his last film as Thor.
They should REALLY fast track that F4 movie and some X-men. I'm on record saying that I think Eternals will be Marvel's first bomb. Book it! I stand by it. They are coming out of the gate mediocre with Phase 4 and I'm a diehard Marvel fan. They are not to big to fail.
 
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here. Most of what I've heard from Taika and the cast has been that the movie is very whacky and silly, but that it also has a strong emotional core. Tessa Thompson called it "very touching".

I think that if Taika allows the emotional moments to land a bit more heavily than he did in Ragnarok, L&T should be on the right course



Both Taika and Natalie Portman have said in interviews that Hemsworth-Thor is still the main character and that Jane is a supporting character. Heck, even the t-shirts the crew were given kinda imply this:

E36S8bYXoAQRaJ3


Thor is front and centre, with Jane and Valkyrie clearly in a supporting role.

There would be no reason for them to relegate Thor to a side-character in his own movie, when he's more popular than ever, after Ragnarok and IW/EG. People LOVE Hemsworth's portrayal of Thor now, and he's clearly happy to carry on playing the Odinson for as long as Marvel want him to.

Hmmm.... you may be right about all of that, but....

First I don't care much for anything Tessa Thompson has to say, so I'll take her assessment of a project that she's starring in under advisement.

As someone once said:
"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."

Second, let's think for a moment. Can we think of any popular MCU characters who have been sidelined in their own stories by female characters ?

What about a character who appeared in the Thor and Avengers movies who people LOVED from his very first appearance ( even more than Hemsworth as Thor) played by a very popular actor ?

What about a character who also appears front and center in all the promotional material for his series, yet is treated like a supporting player ?

A character whose actor has stated he would like to continue playing forever ( reportedly).

See, all the things you've said also apply to Loki, and look at what a ****show that was. I can't believe Hiddleston was okay with what they did to a character he spent 10 years developing into a fan favorite.


Chloe Zhao is an Academy-Award winner. She definitely is more than qualified. The movie could still turn out bad, but I don't think there's any reason to think that yet.

Well, you may be right. But then it's not like an Oscar winning director has ever made a terrible film after winning the big prize.... oh wait, Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis, Oliver Stone, Francis Ford Coppola, just for starters....and these are guys with a lot more experience than Zhao.

Also, given that the Academy now judges films on their social merit as well as just being good films, well I don't put much stock in the Oscars.



I think the idea is that they haven't interfered since humanity's early days.

Granted, all of these movies could end up being terrible, but I prefer to take a wait-and-see attitude.

"Throughout the years we have never interfered, until now."

Never. Never means not ever, it doesn't mean " a long time ago so it doesn't count."

This is a straight up contradiction, you can call a fish a cat all you like but it's not going to climb trees.

I hope I'm wrong and you're right, but if the MCU shows are any indication of where the MCU is going, then that's a slim hope.
 
One of the many reasons I am not looking forward to Thor 4. I can only imagine how much they emasculate him. I'm not looking forward to most of these phase 4 movies at all.
 
Hmmm.... you may be right about all of that, but....

First I don't care much for anything Tessa Thompson has to say, so I'll take her assessment of a project that she's starring in under advisement.

Ok sure, she's hardly gonna say the movie sucks. But the fact that her (and Hemsworth and Taika) have gone out of their way to emphasise that this movie has a heart does say something IMHO.


Second, let's think for a moment. Can we think of any popular MCU characters who have been sidelined in their own stories by female characters ?

What about a character who appeared in the Thor and Avengers movies who people LOVED from his very first appearance ( even more than Hemsworth as Thor) played by a very popular actor ?

What about a character who also appears front and center in all the promotional material for his series, yet is treated like a supporting player ?

A character whose actor has stated he would like to continue playing forever ( reportedly).

The difference is that Taika has a track record we can look back to - Ragnarok. Nobody can say that Ragnarok is not a Thor movie. He is absolutely the main character.

Kate Herron has no such prior record of working with Loki to use as a reference.


Well, you may be right. But then it's not like an Oscar winning director has ever made a terrible film after winning the big prize.... oh wait, Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis, Oliver Stone, Francis Ford Coppola, just for starters....and these are guys with a lot more experience than Zhao.

I'm not saying that Eternals is automatically going to be good simply because Zhao has an Oscar. I was just disagreeing with the notion that she lacks the experience or whatever.

"Throughout the years we have never interfered, until now."

Never. Never means not ever, it doesn't mean " a long time ago so it doesn't count."

This is a straight up contradiction, you can call a fish a cat all you like but it's not going to climb trees.

Ok, I'll admit you've got me there. But lets wait to see how they address it in the movie, though, OK?
 
Is it possible to hijack your own thread? These are the kinds of questions that keep me up at night.
 
Phase 4 looks bad IMHO. The only one I am looking forward to is Blade. I don't know why Marvel thinks they can lean on B and C list characters and keep making money.

Feige and company already pulled it off once with B and C listers Iron Man, Captain America and Thor.
 
Feige and company already pulled it off once with B and C listers Iron Man, Captain America and Thor.
All of those guys have had past cartoons and are more popular than people gave them credit for. I'm a huge comic fan and I can't remember ever reading a comic about Eternals. But I stand by what I said. Eternals will be Marvel's first bomb. You heard it here first people! Book it!
tenor.gif
 
All of those guys have had past cartoons and are more popular than people gave them credit for. I'm a huge comic fan and I can't remember ever reading a comic about Eternals. But I stand by what I said. Eternals will be Marvel's first bomb. You heard it here first people! Book it!
tenor.gif

How many Blade comics did you read before his film came out?
 
How many Blade comics did you read before his film came out?
Whole different argument. There was no MCU then. People EXPECT Marvel to universe build and they should do it naturally...............You don't go from EndGame to Black Widow(which is not doing that well at the box office)to Shang Chi(which I think will do less than Black Widow)to Eternals(which I already told you how I thought it was going to do)when you have Wolverine, F4 and Doom on the sideline. And I read most of Blade comics, because there actually isn't that many. I have the Blade Essentials. But I digress. Time will tell who's right. When Shang Chi comes out, please get back to me. The MCU(as much as I love Marvel)is not to big to fail.
 
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Dr Strange wins. Next up:

Taskmaster
420479f56a5c5bce7a405a83fc259ccf2afd9eb3.gifv


vs Proxima Midnight
tenor.gif


Who you got peeps?
 
Taskmaster

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Black Order were unimpressive in IW. Taskmaster is far quicker than Proxima and should be able to land more hits to earn the win.
 
Feige and company already pulled it off once with B and C listers Iron Man, Captain America and Thor.

All of those guys have had past cartoons and are more popular than people gave them credit for. I'm a huge comic fan and I can't remember ever reading a comic about Eternals. But I stand by what I said. Eternals will be Marvel's first bomb. You heard it here first people! Book it!
tenor.gif

Fair points all around. Here's my take:

Factors in favour of Eternals success:

1) the power of MCU brand. The MCU has become the McDonalds of blockbuster movies, it's not particularly deep or challenging but its filling and reasonably tasty. It's formulaic (until recently) but it's a formula that works. People will go see MCU movies, even so so ones, such that unless Marvel has at least 3 successively bad movies the brand will be strong enough to get bums in seats.

A corollary to this is that people seem to believe that anything MCU has to be good. If you turn on your brain and ever liked Loki as a character, then you know the Loki show is ****ing garbage. Yet there are heaps of people lining up to praise it.

2) Benefit of the doubt factor: some people may be willing to give it a chance, because Marvel has been able to elevate B and C list characters in the past.


Factors against Eternals success:

1) Creative team - the MCU leapt forward on the backs of John Favreau, Joss Whedon, The Russo Brothers and James Gunn, guys with talent and more experience than Chloe Zhao ( and an understanding of the fan base) Is the creative team behind Eternals capable of doing the same as the guys who came before ?
They managed to completley contradict themselves in the trailer ( which is an emerging theme in current MCU writing) so I'm not hopeful.

2) Benefit of the doubt vs lack of recognition:
For every person who thinks " The Eternals ? Who ? Oh well I'll give it a shot" someone else will think " Eternals ? Who cares ?"

3) Marketing/trailers: Guardians had a great marketing campaign that portrayed it as a fun, irreverent action packed sci-fi film with cool 70s pop tunes - which is exactly what it was.

Eternals' marketing so far portrayed it as.....well lots of standing around in cosplay. Not inspiring.

4) Breakout Star: Chris Pratt had been around for a while, but this film exposed him to a massive audience who realised that he's one of the most charismatic stars working today. His performance carried a lot of the film, ably backed up by some vocal performances by big names, Zoe Saldana ( who was in everything) and Bautista's brawny WWE charm.

Does anybody in Eternals have that kind of charm and prescence ? I dont even recognise most of them. Can Kit Harrington ( probably the most current star ) carry this when he's a face in the crowd of a large cast of characters?


5) Profit and Loss: Eternals is going to be a big budget film. It is going to need to make a ton of money to break even. Guardians was a big critical success, but not as financially rewarding as films like Avengers for its budget. Without a big earner like an Avengers film to help, Eternals will really have to take in the cash ( probably $800m, against its $200m budget) to be a financial success. These films need to more than double their budgets at least to break even.

On this note Captain Marvel was protected by its placement between two highly anticipated MCU films, to which it had some story links, which almost guaranteed people would go to see it. What other connected films has Eternals got to support it ?

Conclusion:

Ultimately I'll be surprised if Eternals is a complete bomb, but given how poorly Black Widow is performing with a well established and popular character, I think it will struggle to break even.
 
Oh, and Proxima takes this. Black Widow could hang with Taskmaster for a while, and wasn't overpowered.

Proxima beat down Widow with her bare hands, even when Widow had weapons.

Proxima is too strong and durable for Taskmaster unless Taskmaster has guns as well as melee weapons.
 

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