MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Batmannerism]

Moon Knight vs Black Panther:

First, while I could argue that "Avatar of the Panther God" is jumping way ahead of known information, it actually does kind of sort of fit with the available evidence in the movies. Maybe this is why Bast didn't show up at the conclave, she has plenty of other business to worry about.

As for the fight? As things currently stand I'd say its either a stalemate or an eventual Black Panther victory. When powered up, Moon Knight seems to have physical stats in the same general ranger as a super soldier, putting them on even ground. He clearly has some form of regeneration, but while its potent its also not infinite or casual; ordinary people with ordinary spears were able to greatly hinder and borderline immobilize him until he gained a burst of "My love interest is about to die" adrenaline. His costume and weapons have some magic tricks, but I wouldn't put them as anything categorically beyond T'Challa's tech gadgets.

Basically, the key thing to my eyes is that T'Challa's durability is just flat out tanky, thanks to all that vibranium in his long johns. Moon Knight, by contrast, may be able to shrug off damage, but he generally needs to take and suffer from it first; that's a notable disadvantage versus an opponent with vibranium claws and supersoldier strength.

The tricky thing with Moon Knight is that his power ups are kind of random, and we dont know what their limits are - whereas Tchalla's are quite clear.

Also, would vibranium protect Tchalla from what are ostensibly magic weapons ( the +1 weapon trope from D&D) ? That's unclear.

It makes this a very difficult battle to predict.

I would agree that BP's baseline stats are superior, but we don't know what MK's upper limits are.

 

[Luigi]

Surtur wins. Next up:
Battle of the avatars of their gods!

Moon Knight, avatar of Khonshu

vs Black Panther, avatar of the Panther god

Who you got peeps?!

Black Panther

 

[metaphysician]

T'Challa is tanky like you say BUT wouldn't magic kind of weaken vibranium like it does Superman because it's so unpredictable? You don't think the suits don't kind of neutralize each other because of the extreme of each other?

Not in the slightest. Superman is weak against magic, because *Superman* is weak against magic. This is not some general conceptual thing across all characters and all settings. Black Panther and vibranium have no such demonstrated weakness, and in fact quite the opposite: Cap's shield, made of vibranium, proved highly effective against magical forces when Thor smashed it with Mjolnir ( an attack inconceivable magnitudes more powerful than anything Moon Knight has demonstrated ). I am sure that Moon Knight's magic weapons are more useful than ordinary ones, but note also the precedent of vibranium weapons used against vibranium armor- more effective but not vastly so. An angry T'Challa could cause cosmetic gouges to Cap's shield but little more with vibranium claws, and when T'Challa and Killmonger went at each other, it was an explicit plot point that neither was able to do all that much to the other.

Basically, all the evidence points to "No special result". Moon Knight will only be as effective against Black Panther as his raw capacity would indicate ( and vice versa ).

Also, wasn't the panther god in BP? I could have sworn I saw it for a moment.

Yes, briefly. Portrayed as a, well, black panther in the spirit realm. No reason this can't still be Bast, is the thing, we don't exactly have any hard evidence that gods must only ever have one appearance.

 

[Batmannerism]

Not in the slightest. Superman is weak against magic, because *Superman* is weak against magic. This is not some general conceptual thing across all characters and all settings. Black Panther and vibranium have no such demonstrated weakness, and in fact quite the opposite: Cap's shield, made of vibranium, proved highly effective against magical forces when Thor smashed it with Mjolnir ( an attack inconceivable magnitudes more powerful than anything Moon Knight has demonstrated ). I am sure that Moon Knight's magic weapons are more useful than ordinary ones, but note also the precedent of vibranium weapons used against vibranium armor- more effective but not vastly so. An angry T'Challa could cause cosmetic gouges to Cap's shield but little more with vibranium claws, and when T'Challa and Killmonger went at each other, it was an explicit plot point that neither was able to do all that much to the other.

Basically, all the evidence points to "No special result". Moon Knight will only be as effective against Black Panther as his raw capacity would indicate ( and vice versa ).


Yes, briefly. Portrayed as a, well, black panther in the spirit realm. No reason this can't still be Bast, is the thing, we don't exactly have any hard evidence that gods must only ever have one appearance.

I think it's difficult to compare Asgardian magic to the Egyptian Gods' magic - which is one of the difficulties that characters with magical abilities present, if they're not written well.

Thanos' sword was able to destroy Cap's shield, and we can assume it was made of a super hard material ( harder than vibranium) and driven by Thanos' immense physical strength.

Because Moon Knight has been so poorly defined his powers seem to operate as plot devices rather than elements of his character.

All I'm saying is, while the Superman example doesn't apply, its very hard to draw any conclusions about whether MK can harm BP with his edged weapons or not.

 

[Docker2.0]

Black Panther wins. Next up:

Nebula and Gamora

Vs the Dora Milaje

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Batmannerism]

Black Panther wins. Next up:

Nebula and Gamora

Vs the Dora Milaje

Who you got peeps?!

Gamor and Nebula vs 4 Dora Milaje.....Gamora and Nebula in a stomp.


While the vibranium spears could damage G+N , they could probably survive few hits at least- definitely Nebula. I don't think the same could be said of the DM .

Also, if disarmed G+N are a big threat with their physical strength alone, DM ? Not so much.

Also, chances are that Nebula is packing a blaster pistol of some kind, so that would probably even the odds very quickly.

If the odds were say 8 to 2 then the outcome would be less certain. More than that and the DM come out on top.

But 4 on 2, I just see the DM being killed before they could unleash their magic Wakanda tech.

 

[InCali]

G&N......no problems.

 

[Luigi]

Space ladies have got this, no problem.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

THE COSMIC DUO defeat the Earth warriors without breaking a sweat.

 

[metaphysician]

Team "Awful Dad" vs Team Elite Mooks:

As always, the question should be 'How many Dore Milaje?' Unlike so many contenders from this thread, the Dore aren't a specific person or team, but a large organization of indefinite size and membership.

That said, any reasonable number of Dore? Gamora and Nebula should win. They are just as skilled as the Dore ( conservatively speaking ), only they also have supersoldier level stats ( again, conservatively speaking ) and Thanos-tech weaponry. That's not a combo the Dore can win against unless they literally bring enough numbers to do human wave tactics. Or maybe a whole bunch of heavily armed aircraft for support.

 

[InCali]

Team "Awful Dad" vs Team Elite Mooks:

As always, the question should be 'How many Dore Milaje?' Unlike so many contenders from this thread, the Dore aren't a specific person or team, but a large organization of indefinite size and membership.

That said, any reasonable number of Dore? Gamora and Nebula should win. They are just as skilled as the Dore ( conservatively speaking ), only they also have supersoldier level stats ( again, conservatively speaking ) and Thanos-tech weaponry. That's not a combo the Dore can win against unless they literally bring enough numbers to do human wave tactics. Or maybe a whole bunch of heavily armed aircraft for support.

If I had a nuclear warhead or a giant targeting space laser that could vaporize a continent, I would win. Also if I had Rocket's little gizmo that can blow up moons.

 

[Docker2.0]

Nebula and Gamora win. Next up:

Captain America

vs Venom

Who you got peeps?!?!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Unless Cap is near a heat beam he can deflect with his shield (if he can't turn it by hand), he's definitely not winning this one.

A point to VENOM, not a loser on this one

 

[Batmannerism]

Nebula and Gamora win. Next up:

Captain America

vs Venom

Who you got peeps?!?!

Cap gets his ass kicked, until he realises that his vibranium shield can do pretty much whatever the story requires and uses it to set up a vibration wave that flattens Venom.

So Cap 10/10.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Cap gets his ass kicked, until he realises that his vibranium shield can do pretty much whatever the story requires and uses it to set up a vibration wave that flattens Venom.

So Cap 10/10.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Realistically speaking, I don't see a scenario where Cap could win this. He would have to know the symbiote's weaknesses and then manipulate the fight so he could exploit them.

Now if it were Black Canary, this would be an entirely different conversation

Venom 9/10

 

[Luigi]

Hate to admit it but Venom wins this one.

 

[metaphysician]

Captain America vs Venom:

I mean, someone joked about Cap using the shield to generate a vibrational wave, except that isn't really a joke, Cap has literally done that a few times in the movies.

Cap should take it more often than not. Venom does have an advantage in being able to tentacle, but he's ultimately still a guy in the same weight class as Steve, and Steve is considerably more skilled and intelligent. Remember, this is not "Venom vs a normal human", this is "Venom vs a dude who can use a motorcycle as a thrown weapon to total a jeep".

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm voting Cap which leads us to a 3-3 tie!!

Next up:

Carnage

vs Andrew Garfield's Spiderman

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Luigi]

Without sufficient prep time, Garfield probably wouldn't be able to deduce Carnage's vulnerability to sound vibrations.

Carnage

 

[metaphysician]

That, and Carnage actually *does* seem to have a significant physical advantage over Venom, and thus implicitly most incarnations of Spider-man.

Carnage should beat the Amazing Garfield-Man.

 

[Batmannerism]

I'm voting Cap which leads us to a 3-3 tie!!

Next up:

Carnage

vs Andrew Garfield's Spiderman

Who you got peeps?!

In terms of actually doing science and tech stuff, and speed Garfield is the top Spider Man.

While in the comics Venom doesn't trigger the Spider sense, there's a reason for that - it used to be linked to Peter. Without that, I can't see any reason it would be invisible to Garfield's Spider Sense, and he would therefore be able to dodge anything Venom threw at him.

I'm voting for Spidey, who somehow manages to beat stronger and more psychotic villains on a regular basis.

 

[InCali]

In terms of actually doing science and tech stuff, and speed Garfield is the top Spider Man.

While in the comics Venom doesn't trigger the Spider sense, there's a reason for that - it used to be linked to Peter. Without that, I can't see any reason it would be invisible to Garfield's Spider Sense, and he would therefore be able to dodge anything Venom threw at him.

I'm voting for Spidey, who somehow manages to beat stronger and more psychotic villains on a regular basis.

Spidey

 

[Batgirl0202]

Normally I would have said Carnage by a landslide. Not so much for his physical advantages but also his viciousness and generally psychotic nature.

However, following Gwen's death, Garfield Peter is significantly more bitter and, presumably, harder. Couple this with his scientific advantages and normal powers, and I'd say Peter Garfield takes it 6/10 times.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm voting Carnage...........and with that a 3-3 tie!!!

Next up:

Morbius

vs Tom Holland Spiderman

Who you got peeps?!