MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

Well..... where does the fight take place ? If its on rooftops or in an open space then Sam has a huge mobility advantage plus a sensory advantage - because super vision beats super hearing ( and MCU Daredevil's "radar" is badly defined).

Not sure what ranged weapons the suit has, but he's at least got the shield - which could tank anything DD's got.

Assuming Sam cannot fly much, he can still use the jetpack for powered assists and the suit is durable enough to help him support the weight of a truck.

All in all, I'd say Sam's tech gives him a bunch of advantages that DD can't overcome easily - so Sam wins about 7/10.....

But thats against Netflix Daredevil. In She Hulk the Daredevil we get is a cgi effect who can ignore physics and common sense. He could easily leap onto Sam's back and steer him into a wall, and then we all have a good laugh.....

I hate this version of Daredevil, although at least hes still a competent lawyer, unlike She Hulk.
 
Daredevil vs Cap-Falcon:

While She-Hulk showed DD as generally more skilled and capable than his Netflix baseline, its not really going to change the fundamental dynamics in play. In an open environment, Sam has flight, advanced sensors, and various ranged attacks; he never has to even come within reach of Matt to win, and Matt has zero hope of breaking combat to use stealth. If in tight confined quarters, by contrast. . . Sam still has both an indestructible shield and pretty-much-indestructible-to-DD folding wings, which he can explicit swing around into a barrier mode. Matt may be more skilled, but he's basically fighting a wall that is just going to ram him. And its not like Sam has zero skills to back up his gear.

Sam Wilson wins 8/10. I'll be generous to Matt and say he can potentially get a few victories from lucky ricochet attacks and pure stubbornness, but the solid majority is going to Bird Man.
 
I will also definitely say Sam. Matt is the better fighter, but he's just not going to be able to land many significant hits between the wings (with rocket boosters) and the shield. And Sam is good enough to take him down eventually.
 
Cap Sam

As others have pointed out, Sam has a huge mobility advantage and would win the fight. Even if Matt has CG boosted acrobatics skills this time around.
 
I’m too influenced by the comics. I just read Mark Waid’s Daredevil and he was able to defeat Steve Rogers.

In all honesty, I would give Matt better odds against Steve than against Sam, and for very similar reasons.

The maneuverability advantage is extremely important in matchups like this and nothing will ever change the fact that Sam can *both* block any hit Matt can make with the shield and *also* fly out of reach whenever he wants at the drop of a hat (because *rocket boosters*, and super senses don't give Matt the superhuman reflexes necessary to be faster than that kind of tech). Steve only has one of those advantages and his strength is in turn at least partly neutralized by the comparative ease with which Matt can avoid *his* attacks.
 
Eh, against MCU Steve Rogers? Matt has no hope at all, he's too radically outclassed, even with the vague MCU buff. Steve could pretty much just stand there and let Matt pound away until he gets tired, and then go "Okay, are you finished?"
 
Well, I'm not saying he would have great odds. But better ones than against Sam.

And I don't see how a billy club to the head would have no hope of putting Steve down. Especially when repeated over and over again. He's durable, not invulnerable, and most of his greatest survival feats depended on the shield, not his skin.
 
Eh, against MCU Steve Rogers? Matt has no hope at all, he's too radically outclassed, even with the vague MCU buff. Steve could pretty much just stand there and let Matt pound away until he gets tired, and then go "Okay, are you finished?"

Have to agree. Against MCU Steve Rogers Daredevil has zero chance. I mean, he could weather a drop into the ocean from hundreds of feet up - which would splatter a normal human - without any trouble.

Netflix pitted Daredevil against mostly human adversaries for a very good reason.
 
Well, I'm not saying he would have great odds. But better ones than against Sam.

And I don't see how a billy club to the head would have no hope of putting Steve down. Especially when repeated over and over again. He's durable, not invulnerable, and most of his greatest survival feats depended on the shield, not his skin.



Steve took full on punches from Bucky, in killer mode. He took punches from Ultron and Iron Man and didn't go down. He took a punch from Thanos, to the face, and didn't die. I just can't see how Matt's Billy club is anything close to those feats.
 
Also, don't forget the Elevator Fight in Winter Soldier. An entire elevator full of the biggest beefiest SHIELD mooks available, plus Rumlow, plus confined quarters that made it impossible to avoid being hit or grabbed because no room to dodge, plus magnetic restraints and taser batons. And it still ended, the way it ended.
 
Captain Sam wins. Next up:
Werewolf by Night
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Vs The Moon Knight
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Who you got peeps?!
 
Werewolf by Night vs Moon Knight:

Gotta give this one to Moon Knight. Jack Russell isn't exactly weak, but Moon Knight seems to exist on a level above where he lives. At bare minimum, its "Two people of similar physicality and skill, only one has weapons that can actually hurt the other".
 
Captain Sam wins. Next up:
Werewolf by Night
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Vs The Moon Knight
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Who you got peeps?!


Moon Knight's Vague powers that do ( or don't do) whatever the plot requires vs lycanthropy.

Werewolf by night seems to have super strength and speed, but I couldn't work out whether he was actually immune to non silver weapons ( honestly, the show didn't really keep me interested or invested).

Theoretically both of them only come out at night so no advantage there.

I'm going to say Moon Knight, but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise.
 
I’m going Werewolf by Night. At least cinematically version. Moon Knight just doesn’t have his poop together because his various personalities are wrestling for control. He’s too unpredictable and tends to mess up more often than not. Jack Russell on the other hand generally seems to be able to handle himself in any give situation.
 
Moon Knight wins. Next up:

Ghost Rider
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vs Thanos with the Infinity Sword

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Who you got peeps?!


Strange match up. While Thanos' sword has the raw physical power to slice GR to ribbons, and Thanos could tear GR to pieces with his strength, I don't think it would put GR down for any significant period of time.

The penance stare would utterly annihilate Thanos - I rewatched Infinity War recently, and it reminded me of how great a character he was - and he definitely felt remorse and guilt over murdering Gamora, but he was convinced it was for the greater good.

So GR 10/10

If the sword had some sort of buff to affect magical creatures, then I'd go with Thanos 6/10.
 
Strange match up. While Thanos' sword has the raw physical power to slice GR to ribbons, and Thanos could tear GR to pieces with his strength, I don't think it would put GR down for any significant period of time.

The penance stare would utterly annihilate Thanos - I rewatched Infinity War recently, and it reminded me of how great a character he was - and he definitely felt remorse and guilt over murdering Gamora, but he was convinced it was for the greater good.

So GR 10/10

If the sword had some sort of buff to affect magical creatures, then I'd go with Thanos 6/10.
It actually stopped Wanda's chaos magic so it has to be pretty powerful as well with magical properties.
 
It actually stopped Wanda's chaos magic so it has to be pretty powerful as well with magical properties.

I'm not sure I agree with you there, for a couple of reasons.


1) Wanda's powers in Endgame were not as developed as they are in MoM. Essentially what she has is telekinesis, rather than the more esoteric magic she wields later on. While she can exert a lot of force and lift massive objects, her power doesn't usually disintigrate objects - although she explodes a bunch of Ultron Drones in A of U - but barely deals with Corvus and Proxima in IW ( although she is distracted). She cant kill Thanos instantaneously either ( because if she could, she probably would have) and he doesnt have any magical properties that f we know of.

The sword is made of material so hard that it can tear apart vibranium. While it is possible that the sword has some more magical properties, the more likely explanation is that is was just so tough that it could resist Wanda's power to some degree.

2) Ultimately Wanda deflects and breaks the sword, so it doesn't necessarily have any special properties- other than being really, really, really tough ( i.e. tougher than vibranium).

All in all, saying the sword has some magical properties doesnt seem supportable, from the onscreen evidence.

If you added an extra qualification at the start of the battle - that the Infinity sword can resist hellfire and can damage GR, fair enough.
 
Thanos vs Ghost Rider:

Thanos, 10/10. Put bluntly, Thanos delivers damage orders of magnitude beyond anything Ghost Rider has ever even tried to envision, let alone actually took. It goes *way* beyond any actually demonstrated ability of his to tolerate damage. Assuming that Ghost Rider has infinite ability to recover from damage is fallacious, because its always wrong to assume an infinite.

Also, on the matter of the Penance Stare. . . Mantis, who has the demonstrated ability to incapacitate cosmic beings with her mental abilities, could only temporarily and with great struggle restrain Thanos. The Penance Stare has no evidence for it doing any better. And this is giving Ghost Rider the extreme benefit of the doubt in terms of even being able to get in range to use it in the first place. Which he wouldn't, because Thanos is extremely fast and skilled and would reduce him to scattered atoms with a melee attack first every time.
 
Thanos vs Ghost Rider:

Thanos, 10/10. Put bluntly, Thanos delivers damage orders of magnitude beyond anything Ghost Rider has ever even tried to envision, let alone actually took. It goes *way* beyond any actually demonstrated ability of his to tolerate damage. Assuming that Ghost Rider has infinite ability to recover from damage is fallacious, because its always wrong to assume an infinite.

Also, on the matter of the Penance Stare. . . Mantis, who has the demonstrated ability to incapacitate cosmic beings with her mental abilities, could only temporarily and with great struggle restrain Thanos. The Penance Stare has no evidence for it doing any better. And this is giving Ghost Rider the extreme benefit of the doubt in terms of even being able to get in range to use it in the first place. Which he wouldn't, because Thanos is extremely fast and skilled and would reduce him to scattered atoms with a melee attack first every time.

Because I found Agents of Shield tedious, I admit I didn't pay much attention to Ghost Rider, and the Nic Cage films, which were mediocre but fun, may have influenced my understanding of the character.

My understanding of Ghost Rider's durability is that he is only temporarily inconvenienced by physical damage from non magical weapons ( the old "plus one weapon" trope). If so, unless Thanos has a magic weapon it really doesn't matter.
If there's evidence from the show that this understanding is incorrect, I'll accept it, but otherwise Thanos can only temporarily injure him - it's not about an infinite capacity to absorb damage, more about having a tool that can do real damage.

This trope was shown in Shang Chi where the Dweller in Darkness' minion creatures could simply not be harmed by non magical weapons.

If you've got evidence to the contrary, about the nature of Ghost Rider's durability, I'll happily accept it, but until then....

As for your blanket statement that it's always wrong to assume infinites ....I'd agree, in the real world.

Within the world of comics and even the MCUs there are arguably things that have infìnite or near infinite capacities, such as the infinity stones, Celestials, Dormammu etc. At the lower end of that scale The Eternals are millions of years old they have lifespans that could last billions of years ( or at least until there was insufficient energy in the universe to sustain them - their bodies do not age - if there was sufficient energy then they could conceivably live forever).

I'd suggest that if ever there was a context it was fair in which to assume an infinite capacity is possible, the world of superheroes is it.

As for the penance stare. The problem with your argument is that you are creating a false equivalency between the empathic attack of Mantis and a magical capability of the demonic entity that empowers the Ghost Rider.

The mechanics of the stare and Mantis' empathic sleep spell are very different. One is a psychic power that overrides the target's mind causing temporary unconsciousness.

The penance stare is a magical attack that uses the victim's own remorse for their "sins" to destroy them. It does not cause temporary unconsciousness, but utter anhilation of the recipient's soul.

In the comics one of the few beings that has resisted the stare is the Punisher - because he feels no remorse at all, for all the people he has slain.

The comic version of Thanos would probably be able to resist the stare, as he is an utterly remorseless nihlist, dedicated to the extermination of life.

In the MCU Thanos believes he is justified in committing mass murder on a universal scale, but also he shows that he is capable of feeling remorse and regret - e.g. for the murder of Gamora. In all honesty, this is what makes him such a great character- in Infinity War at least, because he has emotional frailties that make him relatable.

That kind of remorse is what makes the penance stare so devastating, and fries the soul of the recipient. As such, there is evidence that the penance stare would be effective against Thanos.

As far as ranged attacks go, Ghost Rider also has magical hellfire, which may have some effect on Thanos - not by dint of it's temperature alone but by its magical nature. He has his magic bike chain, which can tear open interdimensional portals, and might be able to at least inconvenience Thanos, or temporarily entangle him to allow for GR to follow up with a close range attack.

A while ago this very thread debated whether Hulk could beat Ghost Rider - I believe the consensus was that he couldn't because he lacks the right tools. Thanos is a more skilful Hulk with a formidable physical weapon. If Hulk can't beat Ghost Rider than neither can Thanos - for similar reasons. If I am misremembering that, let me know.

In the comics Thanos would obliterate Ghost Rider, but the MCU version, I still think, is a different story.
 
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I'm going to throw a bone for Thanos so we end with a 3-3 tie!
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Next up:
She Hulk
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vs Lady Sif
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Who you got peeps?!
PS- don't ask me about She Hulk's powers because I absolutely refused to watch that hot mess of a show on Disney Plus. I just know she is strong.
 

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