MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Spider-Aziz]

Love the avatar, I have very fond memories of the old 1970s spider man cartoon, especially the theme song.

Thanks.

You must be thinking of the 1967-1970 series, that one has the song for a theme. My avatar is from the overlooked solo 1981 series, the lonely twin of Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends.

 

[Docker2.0]

Vision seems useless most of the time, so bleh.
IRON MAN. And he's invincible, not invisible.

 

[Docker2.0]

Just an FYI but I created a DCEU vs thread tonight as well. Not sure how well it will take off because DCEU has been all over the place but figured I'd try it. Support peeps!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Soooorryyyy.

 

[Luigi]

Vision

Close one due to Vision's ineptitude but his durability and phasing would be the deciding factors.

Well that's part of it - but, if you read my post, also due to the sonic arm blaster that would turn Whiplash into pulp - which is what Happy hitting him with the car should have done, just another reason that Iron man 2 sucks.

Iron Man 3 is the best Iron Man movie.
MUHAHAHAAAHH.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Vision

Close one due to Vision's ineptitude but his durability and phasing would be the deciding factors.

YESH.

 

[Batmannerism]

Thanks.

You must be thinking of the 1967-1970 series, that one has the song for a theme. My avatar is from the overlooked solo 1981 series, the lonely twin of Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends.

Believe it or not I have the entire season 1 of that show on DVD. Spider Man, Firestar and Iceman, it was awesome ( I watched it as a kid in 1981) Haven't watched it in ages, might dig it out - my favourite episode was the one with video game man, who trapped the good guys in an old school 1970s video game.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Believe it or not I have the entire season 1 of that show on DVD. Spider Man, Firestar and Iceman, it was awesome ( I watched it as a kid in 1981) Haven't watched it in ages, might dig it out - my favourite episode was the one with video game man, who trapped the good guys in an old school 1970s video game.

So you were thinking of this gloriously fun show and another childhood favorite of mine.




My avatar comes from this show





Both first aired in the exact same date, with similar art style and mostly the same music by composer John Douglas. Spider-Man's voice actor is different, and Tobey Maguire's Spidey voice reminds me somewhat of the voice of Ted Schwartz, the voice of the version in my avatar.

 

[Stormborn]

Vision 9/10

By feats, Vision and Tony's nanotech suit are actually similar in strength and firepower so the deciding factor is durability.

The Iron Man suit is tough but Vision's attacks could still take him down eventually. Meanwhile Vision's phasing and his nigh indestructible vibranium body should make him immune to Tony's hits/missiles.

I give Tony a 1/10 because MCU Vision is weak to tasers/electricity. Tony probably knows and might be able to exploit it.

 

[Batmannerism]

Vision 9/10

By feats, Vision and Tony's nanotech suit are actually similar in strength and firepower so the deciding factor is durability.

The Iron Man suit is tough but Vision's attacks could still take him down eventually. Meanwhile Vision's phasing and his nigh indestructible vibranium body should make him immune to Tony's hits/missiles.

I give Tony a 1/10 because MCU Vision is weak to tasers/electricity. Tony probably knows and might be able to exploit it.

Dude, you want to talk feats ?
How long did Vision last against Thanos ? How about Tony in the Nanosuit ? While in theory Vision should be one of the most powerful MCU characters, when it comes down to it....he's crap.

Thanos' henchmen nearly killed Vision- the same henchmen who nearly got killed by Widow, Falcon and Cap. Hawkeye.... I mean HAWKEYE !!!! was able to stop him for a few seconds with a couple of taser arrows.

Face it dude, when it comes to fighting Vision was great against Ultron but rubbish against everyone else - in Civil war he does more damage to his own team than his "enemies".

I see this as much much closer than you think.

In fact I'll lower my 6/10 to Vision to 5/10 - a draw, because Tony's got more impressive fighting feats.

 

[Stormborn]

Haven't we had this whole Vision argument before?

• We agree he seemed very powerful in Age of Ultron (beat Ultron Prime, fought Thor in a deleted scene).
• He presumably held back a lot in Civil War because he didn't want to kill anyone on Team Cap (almost everyone in the airport fight was holding back).
  • We did see some of his limits (stunned by electricity, overpowered by Scarlet Witch, Falcon dodged his beam and it hit War Machine) but nothing that suggests he's weaker than Iron Man.
• He was backstabbed at the start of Infinity War and spent the rest of the film badly injured.

How long did Vision last against Thanos ?How about Tony in the Nanosuit?

Not exactly a fair comparison.

How long would Tony have lasted if he'd been impaled twice before Thanos showed up?

Thanos' henchmen nearly killed Vision

Sure but with a sneak attack. They backstabbed him with an alien blade that can seemingly cut through anything (including vibranium and Asgardians). Then Vision spent the rest of the film badly injured but kept fighting until he died.

Iron Man suit or not, being backstabbed by that thing probably would've killed/grievously injured Tony (or almost any other Avenger).

Hawkeye.... I mean HAWKEYE !!!! was able to stop him for a few seconds with a couple of taser arrows.

MCU Vision was easy to stun with electric shocks, no argument here.

I actually don't remember seeing any Iron Man suits with a taser though so it seems unlikely it'll be the deciding factor in this fight.

 

[Batmannerism]

Haven't we had this whole Vision argument before?

• We agree he seemed very powerful in Age of Ultron (beat Ultron Prime, fought Thor in a deleted scene).
• He presumably held back a lot in Civil War because he didn't want to kill anyone on Team Cap (almost everyone in the airport fight was holding back).
  • We did see some of his limits (stunned by electricity, overpowered by Scarlet Witch, Falcon dodged his beam and it hit War Machine) but nothing that suggests he's weaker than Iron Man.
• He was backstabbed at the start of Infinity War and spent the rest of the film badly injured.

Not exactly a fair comparison.

How long would Tony have lasted if he'd been impaled twice before Thanos showed up?



Sure but with a sneak attack. They backstabbed him with an alien blade that can seemingly cut through anything (including vibranium and Asgardians). Then Vision spent the rest of the film badly injured but kept fighting until he died.

Iron Man suit or not, being backstabbed by that thing probably would've killed/grievously injured Tony (or almost any other Avenger).



MCU Vision was easy to stun with electric shocks, no argument here.

I actually don't remember seeing any Iron Man suits with a taser though so it seems unlikely it'll be the deciding factor in this fight.

Do you not think that the Nano suit - which seems capable of producing any weapons Tony can think of - can produce an electromagnetic pulse or a charge of electricity, stronger than Hawkeye's taser arrows ?

To me it comes down to feats, and after his fight with Ultron, Vision's fighting feats are less than impressive.

 

[Stormborn]

Do you not think that the Nano suit - which seems capable of producing any weapons Tony can think of - can produce an electromagnetic pulse or a charge of electricity, stronger than Hawkeye's taser arrows ?

It seems like a pretty uncertain path to victory for Tony:

• Tony might know that Vision can be stunned with electricity and decide to exploit it
• Tony might've programmed the nanotech suit with the ability to make a taser, even though none of his previous suits included one.
• The taser might be powerful enough to KO Vision rather than just slowing him down like Hawkeye's arrows did.

But yeah, it's possible so I gave him a 1/10 chance.

Other than that though, Vision wins. He's just too durable to be hurt by any of the attacks we know for sure that the Iron Man suit is capable of.

To me it comes down to feats, and after his fight with Ultron, Vision's fighting feats are less than impressive.

I go by feats too, I just think you've got to understand the context.

• Vision was awesome in AoU because he wasn't holding back.
• He didn't want to kill anyone in Civil War so he held back (just like every other heavy hitter in the airport fight) and we only got a few glimpses of his full power (e.g. his bus feat and knocking Giant Man around).
• At the start of Infinity War he was crippled by a sneaky backstab with a blade that can cut through anything.

Ignoring that context and arguing "Vision's been crap since AoU" and "Iron Man put up a better fight against Thanos" etc seems silly to me.

 

[Batmannerism]

It seems like a pretty uncertain path to victory for Tony:

• Tony might know that Vision can be stunned with electricity and decide to exploit it
• Tony might've programmed the nanotech suit with the ability to make a taser, even though none of his previous suits included one.
• The taser might be powerful enough to KO Vision rather than just slowing him down like Hawkeye's arrows did.

But yeah, it's possible so I gave him a 1/10 chance.

Other than that though, Vision wins. He's just too durable to be hurt by any of the attacks we know for sure that the Iron Man suit is capable of.



I go by feats too, I just think you've got to understand the context.

• Vision was awesome in AoU because he wasn't holding back.
• He didn't want to kill anyone in Civil War so he held back (just like every other heavy hitter in the airport fight) and we only got a few glimpses of his full power (e.g. his bus feat and knocking Giant Man around).
• At the start of Infinity War he was crippled by a sneaky backstab with a blade that can cut through anything.

Ignoring that context and arguing "Vision's been crap since AoU" and "Iron Man put up a better fight against Thanos" etc seems silly to me.

Once again you are overly concerned about raw power to win fights instead of skill and experience.
If power was all it took Superman would never lose a fight and Batman would never win one.

If raw power is all it takes, Civil War, Guardians of the Galaxy and Dr Strange would have different endings - power has to be used with skill and strategy.

Sure on paper Vision looks awesome- even more powerful than his comic book version - but the comic book version ( unless John Byrne is the writer) is a much more effective character.

Vision was holding back in Civil War ? Except of course when he crippled a team mate.....

As for Vision being crippled by a backstab.........
Tony built the first Iron Man suit and arc reactor in a cave while he was kept alive by a car battery.

When you are trying to predict any fight sport you look at the fighters form ( essentially their feats) - and based on these two fighters form, Tony is the champ who has won, lost and regained a title.

The Vision is that guy who is amazing in the gym but once he gets on the mat, he's crap.

I'll leave you with this final thought. Pitting a guy who is one of the greatest inventors and innovators of technology and has a weapon that appears infinitely programmable ( nanotech) against another guy who is just a piece of technology with an infinity stone, to me seems like a pretty even fight - also given that Tony is familiar with Vision's technology.

 

[Stormborn]

Vision was holding back in Civil War ?

It was a hero vs hero fight so almost everyone was holding back. There are even lines like "the plan was to go easy on em" in the film.

He could've aimed at Team Cap in this scene but he fired an "I could've killed you all just now" warning shot and tried to reason with them instead.

Except of course when he crippled a team mate.....

Yeah, I think we've talked about this before. Vision made a mistake trying to make that nigh impossible shot.

That scene does prove that one hit from Vision's beam can take out an Iron Man suit though.......

As for Vision being crippled by a backstab.........

Do you really think Tony would've done any better than Vision if he'd been taken by surprise and impaled at the start of the film?

is one of the greatest inventors and innovators of technology and has a weapon that appears infinitely programmable

If this was an engineering competition I'd vote for Tony.

In a fight where Tony doesn't get prep time to design a Visionbuster armour though, he's going to lose.

Once again you are overly concerned about raw power to win fights instead of skill and experience.
If power was all it took Superman would never lose a fight and Batman would never win one.

Skill can be the decisive factor in fights if the opponents are in roughly the same weight class or if there's an exploitable weakness.

In this fight though, no amount of skill is going to make up for the fact that none of the weapons we've seen Iron Man use on screen can hurt Vision.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't know man..............maybe you just have psychic powers.

 

[Docker2.0]

Vision wins 3-2. Who else voted Iron Man besides Batmannerism? I would never tell....

Next up:

Stormbreaker Thor

Vs Endgame Thanos with the Infinity sword

Now some of you may say, wasn't Stormbreaker made specifically for Thanos? But if you look at Endgame, Thanos was handling a fat Thor WITH Stormbreaker and Mjolnir.
Just an FYI......

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Stomrbreaker Thor can aim for the head of a Thanos sitting like that by the side of his sword.

 

[Docker2.0]

Stomrbreaker Thor can aim for the head of a Thanos sitting like that by the side of his sword.

Doesn't Infinity Sword block Stormbreaker?

 

[Batmannerism]

Skill can be the decisive factor in fights if the opponents are in roughly the same weight class or if there's an exploitable weakness.

In this fight though, no amount of skill is going to make up for the fact that none of the weapons we've seen Iron Man use on screen can hurt Vision.

First, Royce Gracie and Keith Hackney say "hi" - skill can be the decisive factor in massive mismatches of size and weight.

Second, that Tony's weapons can't hurt Vision - that is an assumption based on nothing - given that we have never seen Tony attack Vision - a character who got stopped by taser arrows.

Tony made Thanos bleed - which is pretty impressive - and the nano armour stood up to power stone blasts at near pbr.

If this was Vision vs a non nanotech suit then I'd give it to Vision at least 7/10. Against the Nanotech suit, which stood up to Thanos one on one at least for a little while ( a better fighting feat than Vision has against anyone, except maybe Ultron) I think Tony has the advantage.

Okay we're not going to agree on this, so I'll drop it there.

On a related note, we know how powerful Worthy Cap was - what about Worthy Vision ?
Could Worthy Vision beat Thanos ( Endgame) ?

 

[Luigi]

Thor

Infinity War was peak Thor in terms of physicality and weaponry. He's capable of taking down Thanos, infinity sword and all.

 

[Batmannerism]

Vision wins 3-2. Who else voted Iron Man besides Batmannerism? I would never tell....

Next up:

Stormbreaker Thor

Vs Endgame Thanos with the Infinity sword

Now some of you may say, wasn't Stormbreaker made specifically for Thanos? But if you look at Endgame, Thanos was handling a fat Thor WITH Stormbreaker and Mjolnir.
Just an FYI......

I'm going with Thanos.

While it would be much much closer, Endgame Thanos was actually a more dangerous one on one fighter than Infinity War Thanos who relied on the Gauntlet to do a lot of his fighting.

Endgame Thanos was capable of catching and handling Stormbreaker - in some ways Mjolnir would be a more advantageous weapon, because Thanos could not hold it in any way.

Infinity war Thanos was unarmored, which made him vulnerable to edged weapons- where as Endgame Thanos wears tough body armour that might stop some of Stormbreaker's cutting power.

I see Thor landing some early strikes and getting some good hits in, but once they engage in hand to hand Thanos eventually comes out on top.

So Thor 4/10, because it would still be close, but Thanos takes this 6/10.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm going with Thanos.

While it would be much much closer, Endgame Thanos was actually a more dangerous one on one fighter than Infinity War Thanos who relied on the Gauntlet to do a lot of his fighting.

Endgame Thanos was capable of catching and handling Stormbreaker - in some ways Mjolnir would be a more advantageous weapon, because Thanos could not hold it in any way.

Infinity war Thanos was unarmored, which made him vulnerable to edged weapons- where as Endgame Thanos wears tough body armour that might stop some of Stormbreaker's cutting power.

I see Thor landing some early strikes and getting some good hits in, but once they engage in hand to hand Thanos eventually comes out on top.

So Thor 4/10, because it would still be close, but Thanos takes this 6/10.

 

[Batmannerism]

I think a lot of people undersell Thanos' incredible hand to hand fighting skills and speed - we know he's stronger than Hulk, but people ignore the relative ease with which he demolished Hulk in IW and fought off Dude Thor, Cap and Tony in Endgame. It was only Worthy Cap who was able to go toe to toe, and only for a short time before being overwhelmed.

If he'd had his sword to fight Carol, then his encounter with Captain Marvel might have been a bit different.

Hey what about Hela vs Captain Marvel ?

 

[Stormborn]

I pretty much agree with the video: