Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Marvel united]

I agree. As huge of a threat Dark Phoenix is, that story should be more intimate and emotional. And it should involve characters Jean has a strong relationship with. It would be great for an Endgame type of event for the X-Men.

But I don't think Marvel will ever adapt that storyline.

Dude, if they made Phoenix the next "Endgame' literally everybody would be involved in that story. I mean every single MCU hero was in that climatic battle against Thanos.

I think that could work really well for Dark Phoenix as long as the X-Men are the heart of the story

 

[Lip]

Dude, if they made Phoenix the next "Endgame' literally everybody would be involved in that story. I mean every single MCU hero was in that climatic battle against Thanos.

What I meant by making Dark Phoenix an "Endgame type of event for the X-Men" was making it an emotional conclusion for the characters that would start the MCU X-Men.

Most of MCU heroes are in that climax but a lot of them don't even have lines. There was a point in them being in Endgame because if was for them the Original 6 were doing all that. I don't see any point in having a bunch of heroes in DP just for a final battle.

It should be a story for the X-Men and X-Men only.

 

[Lip]

I really liked the art style they used for Wolverine & The X-men but I wasn't a fan of the team line-up (and no it has nothing to do with the show title). And please no kid X-men and no Principal Mystique.

That said, I'd be curious to find out what a TAS-type show would look like in 2019.

Any chance of an announcement this year? SDCC? D23?

 

[Frankeh]

And please no kid X-men and no Principal Mystique.

I cannot with this slander of X-Men: Evolution.

I agree. As huge of a threat Dark Phoenix is, that story should be more intimate and emotional. And it should involve characters Jean has a strong relationship with. It would be great for an Endgame type of event for the X-Men.

But I don't think Marvel will ever adapt that storyline.

Can I just say it's very sad that we won't get a proper Dark Phoenix Saga big screen adaptation. I blame Fox for this.

Guess we'll have to stick to the TAS episodes.

 

[Shikamaru]

If you read what the film's writers have said publicly now about the process of how the story came together you'd see actually how haohazard things are in regards to a grand design.

My poorly executed half-joke aside, can you please provide a link? I'm kinda curious.

 

[Lip]

Can I just say it's very sad that we won't get a proper Dark Phoenix Saga big screen adaptation.

It is. But on the other hand, the fact that Marvel will probably never adapt Dark Phoenix, makes me excited to see the MCU Jean and what they'll do with her.

I mean, Jean's defining trait in FOX X-Men movies was that she would eventually become Phoenix (when she wasn't Logan's love interest). So the idea of allowing Jean to be Jean is refreshing and exciting to me.

 

[wobbly]

Not sure if this has been posted:

How Marvel's Next 10-Year Saga Could Unite Avengers and X-Men

I'm not familiar with the by line writer but he talks about how House of M (I'm not a fan) can be done. He says "No More Mutants" can be changed to "No More Superpowers."

Not sure about using the exact line/pun Apocalypse employed in that film.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I cannot with this slander of X-Men: Evolution.

Come at me bro! And you mean libel, slander is spoken.

Not sure about using the exact line/pun Apocalypse employed in that film.

Yes that line needs to be worked on.

Any chance of an announcement this year? SDCC? D23?

Sadly seems like a Long Shot (pun not intended). I think we would've heard rumblings about this by now. Fingers crossed though!

 

[Marvel united]

What I meant by making Dark Phoenix an "Endgame type of event for the X-Men" was making it an emotional conclusion for the characters that would start the MCU X-Men.

Most of MCU heroes are in that climax but a lot of them don't even have lines. There was a point in them being in Endgame because if was for them the Original 6 were doing all that. I don't see any point in having a bunch of heroes in DP just for a final battle.

It should be a story for the X-Men and X-Men only.

I mean, if it's an adaptation of Avengers vs. X-Men, yes. I also don't see them doing the Dark Phoenix saga exactly as it was done again without incorporating the larger Marvel universe. Thats the only way I see them doing it again. That being the MCU's stamp on that story and a fresh adaptation that hews closer to the cosmic soap opera aspect but through Avengers vs. X-Men. It just makes sense.

The reason why I see the Phoenix itself as a distinct possibility is because "Phoenix" is an alias. Marvel can have her acquire the Phoenix and be a member of the X-Men for multiple movies before the end. Of course, once she acquires it, it's an omen to fans that the end is coming. But we all know the Phoenix saga spanned multiple years -- it doesn't begin and end with "Dark Phoenix".

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Whatever Feige does will be awesome

 

[DawnWarrior]

I really liked the art style they used for Wolverine & The X-men but I wasn't a fan of the team line-up (and no it has nothing to do with the show title). And please no kid X-men and no Principal Mystique.

That said, I'd be curious to find out what a TAS-type show would look like in 2019.

They said there wouldn't be an MCU X-Men movie for like 5 years. They could make a new X-Men cartoon for three or four seasons by that time. Then they'd cancel it to make way for a new one that's more like the movies.

 

[psylockolussus]

The recent Marvel cartoons aren't really good especially its production value. So I don't see any reason to get eXcited about a new X-Men cartoon. A videogame though in the level of Spider-Man 2018 would be eXciting. I don't see both things happening soon.

 

[Kuwolski]

We'll likely get some top level animated shows on Disney + at some point, just a matter of when. Priorities change, like quality.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Hopefully it's with X-men members that a lot us know and love as leads. I don't want 3 to 4 seasons with Negasonic and Angel Salvadore as X-men and then have to listen to a whole generation of audience members on Twitter (or whatever form social media is around by that time) demanding to see Teenage Warhead Girl and Insect Girl as X-men. "Who tf is that old lady with the weird skunk hair and why does she keep calling people 'Sugah'?"

 

[psylockolussus]

We'll likely get some top level animated shows on Disney + at some point, just a matter of when. Priorities change, like quality.

I believe when i see it. The promo pic of Dazzler in the upcoming Hulu cartoon looks ****.

 

[Kuwolski]

Well, first it's a promo pic, secondly I said Disney +, where Marvel Studios seems to have domain at the moment. I guess we'll see how those "What If..." animated episodes turn out.

 

[psylockolussus]

Aren't all the cartoons coming from Marvel Television? Disney+ or Hulu, its all under the same company. Given the recent Marvel cartoons, I just don't see how a new cartoon would suddenly look different and better unless they do it in 3D animation or really give it a bigger budget than most Tv cartoons. I'm guesing the bigger budget would go to the live action shows and the What If would be just something extra to watch.

 

[Lip]

Into the Spider-Verse was a game changer, a big success and won an Oscar for Best Animated Movie.

While I understand that Marvel's recent shows are underwhelming and that Into The Spider-Verse was produced by Sony also, I see the potential this movie has to open the eyes of Marvel to invest more in the animation department (including shows).

If Marvel will indeed invest more in animation, I don't know. But I can see things "suddenly changing" after the sucess of Into the Spider-Verse.

 

[Mad Ones]

Cartoons are pretty important for getting characters into the public consciousness. TAS and Evolution were pretty proactive in this respect, while the Disney toons are reactive to whatever is trending in the MCU and I think the quality suffers because of it.

Evo was a great X-men cartoon! It had character development, world building, soap opera drama, and a great line-up. WotX was an absolute mess that had some decent ideas and character designs.

I hope that Spider-verse creates an investment in animation again. I really love animation and don't like seeing superheroes flounder in that medium.

 

[Lip]

Although Peter had a big role in Spider-Verse, the story was focused on Miles. And there's a spin-off coming centered around female characters.

With that said, the X-Men universe is huge and much, much bigger than Spider-Man's. Marvel has plenty of options for animated movies. Investing in more "obscure characters" or an unexpected line-up of characters. It doesn't have to be characters like Cyclops, Wolverine or Storm upfront. It could be minor characters. (talking about animated movies here, not shows).

 

[Marvel united]

I'd love to animated movies akin to what DC/WB has been doing the last few years. Imagine a Dark Phoenix or Muir Island adaptation

 

[JimThompson]

Although Peter had a big role in Spider-Verse, the story was focused on Miles. And there's a spin-off coming centered around female characters.

With that said, the X-Men universe is huge and much, much bigger than Spider-Man's. Marvel has plenty of options for animated movies. Investing in more "obscure characters" or an unexpected line-up of characters. It doesn't have to be characters like Cyclops, Wolverine or Storm upfront. It could be minor characters. (talking about animated movies here, not shows).

There are so many time travel/alternate universe possibilities for the X-Men you'd think those alone would be ripe for translation to an animated movie or two.

 

[MbJ]

I'd be down for a cartoon. But preferably handled by someone other than Marvel Animation. Other than those Marvel Rising things (which I sorta liked when I watched them with my niece) I haven't been impressed as of late.

I know Laurence Fishburne is making a Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur cartoon with Titmouse. That'd be an interesting studio for animation.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't care what anyone feels about the ending of KORRA... The Avatar/Korra guys should totally be handling a major DC or Marvel property in animation.

I think they would work gangbusters on a Superman or Wonder Woman animated program... But with Marvel? Nothing suits them more than the X-Men. They could sink their teeth into that property and deliver something amazing.

If not them, then Lauren Montgomery and the crew that did the Voltron show on Netflix.

 

[Relugus]

House of M and Decimation M are two different stories. "No More Mutants" set up Decimation M, but it's not important for HoM. So I can perfectly see them adapting HoM without "No More Mutants".

But for that they'd have to, at least, connect Wanda to Eric and change her powers.

Also, I agree, they'd have to choose adapting HoM or AoA. They are similar. And, IMO, the same for Dark Phoenix. The female hero becoming too strong and becoming a threat was already done. And since Marvel will probably never adapt DP, HoM seems like a path they could take.

Hmm I'm not sure which I'd prefer out of the Dark Phoenix Saga, House of M, or Age of Apocalypse.

DPS done with the MCU's ability to capture scope and flesh out interpersonal drama is really compelling. But we are probably fatigued when it comes to that story, it usually means death for Jean, and there are other ways to incorporate the Phoenix Force.

HoM is attractive as a big crossover between the Avengers and X-men, giving big roles to Magneto, Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, etc. Interesting things can be done with characters like Wolverine and Spider-man in this reality. It would need a lot of tweaking but the MCU isn't afraid of that. Might be worth it just to see those royal family Coipel designed costumes. Could also factor in Billy and Teddy in a way the comics don't.

AoA is the kind of classic dystopian/post-apocalyptic world that we have maybe seen a lot of in popular culture but the hook is seeing characters we know really well completely reinvented and twisted. I'd give the writers/directors a lot of creative freedom to include the characters they want and reinvent them in which ever ways work, not necessarily beholden to the comic. This is a big Infinity Saga level story so we'll have to wait and see if the MCU can build the X-men up to the level a story like this deserves. This story is also the only capacity I'd want to see Apocalypse in.

House of M did make Wanda into a trope and plot device, and it also made her into a long term enemy of the X-men who the Avengers forgave without any input from any of the mutants she affected. But the MCU really elevated Civil War where Tony was pretty unlikable and sympathetic. I wouldn't expect the MCU to adapt House of M that faithfully, but it would keep the spirit of the comic, which, for me, was seeing Magneto and his family as aristocrats/monarchs in a world without mutant oppression.

"We have to earn it."
How do you do that with near non-existent screentime and little interaction (only Vision and Clint) with other characters? No wonder Markus and McFeely then admit it's probably "too hard" to do. How do you earn it when Disney will demand you give big chunkcs of screentime to Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Shiang Chi, Wolverine?

It cannot be earned. That's basic math.

To recap, House of M is a story in which characters like Vision, Agatha Harkness, Chthon, Django, Marya, Holly, who would by default reside in any world created by Wanda, don't appear because Bendis does not know who they are or in the case of Vision, simply because he dislikes them. The main character of House of M is Wolverine, a character who has no history at all with Wanda.

House of M was written by a man who knew nothing about Wanda, who only knew one story involving her, John Byrne's Darker than Scarlet, a story so virulently misogynistic, it led to Byrne being kicked off of West Coast Avengers due to fans pressure.

Alot of Scarlet Witch fans see Magneto as detrimental to her character, the only beneficiary of it is Magneto. Writers always favour Magneto. She is always forced to orbit him and cease to be her own character. Her purpose is to add to his grandeur. To most readers, Pietro has a great dynamic with Erik, whereas Wanda does not.
It wasn't until James Robinson's 2016 solo comic that we got a story about Wanda's mother. Natalya is certainly an improvement on the pointless, dull Magda.

Let's take a look at Bendis, and what he does in Disassembled and House of M, and his motives for doing it. He has Wanda kill her team-mates, making her persona non-grata to the Avengers, her home, then he then has Doctor Strange say, ludicrously, "there's no such thing as Chaos Magic", severing Wanda's ties to the Elder God mythos and Wundagore, her birthplace, then Bendis goes for the trifecta, and "no more mutants"...making her toxic to X-Men comics forever... it's quite literally the perfect character assassination; he cuts her off from every part of the Marvel universe. The cherry on top is making her so OP as to be unusable. An act of pure spite designed to remove her from comics, which it did, for seven years. On top of that Bendis never explains how her powers in HoM work. Kurt Busiek created easily the most cohesive and understandable power system for Wanda, one connected to her emotions for the first time (her mutants powers have no connection to her emotions) a dynamic and meaningful way; Chaos Magic.

Feige himself seems to favour Busiek as well:

Her powers, she’s never had any training, I’m talking about Scarlet Witch. She never had any training; she’s figuring it out. Arguably, you could say that that’s why her powers are much more chaotic and much looser in the way that we showcased those light effects. In , some of what you might see today, even the cover of Entertainment Weekly, it’s much tighter. It’s all about focus. It’s all about pulling energies from other dimensions in an organized and purposeful fashion, which is why they can do a lot more than she can in, at least, a much more precise way.

There's a desire amongst some X-Men fans, I think, to erase Wanda's individual history (Avengers, West Coast Avengers, Mount Wundagore, Chthon, New Salem, Set, Master Pandemonium, Lore) and reduce her to a plot device for cheesy Magneto soap opera, existing purely to serve his narrative and his man-pain. For her to be some subservient princess? To stand in the background and be a character with no narrative of her own?
When the Disney Plus show was first revealed and speculated upon, it was extraordinary and very revealing how many people declared that her show should be about Magneto. The notion of the series being focused on Wanda, seemed to be an alien concept to the Marvel fandom.