MCU X-Men - Part 1

[Marvel united]

Right. Thats the problem of trying to explain how a team of 30 year old X-Men have operated for almost 2 decades without anybody noticing. It makes way more sense and is much more natural to have a fresh, young team just arriving on the scene as opposed to a veteran team that has been around since before the first Iron Man movie

 

[CaptainWagner]

They didn't have any problem revealing that sorcerers have been operating in secret for millennia with no one knowing. Not sure why it's any harder to say that a secret mutant operation has existed for one or two decades.

 

[Captain Marvel]

I don't see why adult X-Men can't fly under the radar as far as the Avengers are concerned. A couple reasons:

1) Up to this point, the "mutant threat" has likely been pretty negligible, mostly focusing on the occasional flare-up with Magneto. And if they write a Magneto who has a mutual interest in keeping the existence of Mutants quiet, then that works, as whatever plan he enacts would necessitate avoiding drawing attention to the existence of mutants. It won't really come to the forefront until, as I suggested earlier, you have rogue government agents hurling Sentinels in public, or someone like Mr. Sinister, Apocalypse, or Stryfe coming on the scene with a vested interest in kick starting a war between mutants and humans. Otherwise, you have the X-Men, Magneto, the government, the Morlocks, etc. all invested in the idea of keeping the existence of mutants under wraps.

2) The Avengers aren't aware of all super-heroic activity. They seemingly never heard of Ant-Man or Captain Marvel, after all. Captain America and the rest of his team were taken totally by surprise when Spider-Man showed up (Tony seemingly being the only one who knew about him). And nobody was aware of the existence of Black Panther or the true nature of Wakanda. So a handful of superhumans who occasionally get into fights with another team of superhumans could easily slip under their radar. Particularly if the battles occur in out of the way places rather than the middle of Manhattan (I.E. Asteroid M, the Savage Land, Alamogordo, etc.). And if the X-Men and Brotherhood are currently living under a "détente" scenario, then it's even easier.

That, I think, is the best option for Marvel. It gives them an X-Men team which is relatively young, in their mid-20's, but still somewhat experienced. It gives them established background with their most common archenemy, Magneto and his Brotherhood (Meaning that if they ever make a movie, they don't have to establish the relationships between a dozen or more characters, because they can write them as if a relationship already exists, and every character is well aware of who everyone else is and what they're capable of). It sets up the framework for why mutants continue to remain secret, because the X-Men have been there enforcing the secret, working in tandem with the government. It allows for a POV character to be introduced to the X-Men, similar to Rogue and Wolverine in the first X-Men movie, to introduce us to that world, rather than having to build the entire world from scratch. And it allows for a younger generation of students in their teens who could be the basis of a very different kind of film series. One which is more Mutant Harry Potter than anything else.

At the same time, they're still young enough and new enough that a lot of their enemies have yet to arrive. No Mr. Sinister and the Marauders. No Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen. No Stryfe and the Mutant Liberation Front. No Purifiers. No Reavers. No Hellfire Club. And so on. X-Men with 10 years of history behind them is, in my view, their best bet.

 

[Shikamaru]

I still like the idea of introducing a few X-Men as college students that have been living and training with the Professor since high school. Other mutants like Iceman and Kitty could be 15-16 and just joined the school.

 

[Marvel united]

They didn't have any problem revealing that sorcerers have been operating in secret for millennia with no one knowing. Not sure why it's any harder to say that a secret mutant operation has existed for one or two decades.

Except Sorcerers don't even operate in the same plane of existence as the Avengers. They go to a completely different dimension of reality whenever they use their powers and fight extra-dimensional threats. They are nothing like the X-Men or mutants at all

I still like the idea of introducing a few X-Men as college students that have been living and training with the Professor since high school. Other mutants like Iceman and Kitty could be 15-16 and just joined the school.

This is what I want as well. And have the younger mutants like Iceman, Kitty and even Jubilee in the Spider-Man franchise, going to Midtown. One of the best parts of Ultimate Spider-Man.. The main X-Men themselves have only a couple of years of experience under their belts.

 

[MasterCat]

We've had twenty years of X-men films focused primarily on older X-men. First Class was the only Fox-men film which actually focused on younger mutants learning about their powers, and even then Xavier and Magneto were the biggest characters, whilst most of the students where sidelined. We've never had an X-men movie from the POV of the students, learning at the academy.

Imo, the MCU X-men should (with obvious exceptions like Xavier and Wolverine) be in the 16-21 range.

I think the MCU X-Men need to be Xavier's first class, period. It beggars belief if they discovered their powers more than 15 years ago, which will more than 3 years before Iron Man ("Spider-Man 2" will be in Year 10, and expect the MCU to only advance one year per Spider-Man film). Yet that's logically entailed in the demands of everyone clamoring for 30-something X-Men.

 

[MasterCat]

2) The Avengers aren't aware of all super-heroic activity. They seemingly never heard of Ant-Man or Captain Marvel, after all. Captain America and the rest of his team were taken totally by surprise when Spider-Man showed up (Tony seemingly being the only one who knew about him). And nobody was aware of the existence of Black Panther or the true nature of Wakanda. So a handful of superhumans who occasionally get into fights with another team of superhumans could easily slip under their radar. Particularly if the battles occur in out of the way places rather than the middle of Manhattan (I.E. Asteroid M, the Savage Land, Alamogordo, etc.). And if the X-Men and Brotherhood are currently living under a "détente" scenario, then it's even easier.

That, I think, is the best option for Marvel. It gives them an X-Men team which is relatively young, in their mid-20's, but still somewhat experienced. It gives them established background with their most common archenemy, Magneto and his Brotherhood

The Avengers never heard of Ant-Man and the Wasp because they were intelligence agents the size of ants who were thought dead/retired in 1989. And for all we know, Captain Carol Danvers went MIA to the Kree shortly after getting her powers and has never been on Earth since.
What you're asking for is a bunch of children hitting puberty and displaying super powers followed more than 10 years of constant activity in New York (unless they change the mansion's location).

 

[Protar]

I don't see why adult X-Men can't fly under the radar as far as the Avengers are concerned. A couple reasons:

1) Up to this point, the "mutant threat" has likely been pretty negligible, mostly focusing on the occasional flare-up with Magneto. And if they write a Magneto who has a mutual interest in keeping the existence of Mutants quiet, then that works, as whatever plan he enacts would necessitate avoiding drawing attention to the existence of mutants. It won't really come to the forefront until, as I suggested earlier, you have rogue government agents hurling Sentinels in public, or someone like Mr. Sinister, Apocalypse, or Stryfe coming on the scene with a vested interest in kick starting a war between mutants and humans. Otherwise, you have the X-Men, Magneto, the government, the Morlocks, etc. all invested in the idea of keeping the existence of mutants under wraps.

2) The Avengers aren't aware of all super-heroic activity. They seemingly never heard of Ant-Man or Captain Marvel, after all. Captain America and the rest of his team were taken totally by surprise when Spider-Man showed up (Tony seemingly being the only one who knew about him). And nobody was aware of the existence of Black Panther or the true nature of Wakanda. So a handful of superhumans who occasionally get into fights with another team of superhumans could easily slip under their radar. Particularly if the battles occur in out of the way places rather than the middle of Manhattan (I.E. Asteroid M, the Savage Land, Alamogordo, etc.). And if the X-Men and Brotherhood are currently living under a "détente" scenario, then it's even easier.

That, I think, is the best option for Marvel. It gives them an X-Men team which is relatively young, in their mid-20's, but still somewhat experienced. It gives them established background with their most common archenemy, Magneto and his Brotherhood (Meaning that if they ever make a movie, they don't have to establish the relationships between a dozen or more characters, because they can write them as if a relationship already exists, and every character is well aware of who everyone else is and what they're capable of). It sets up the framework for why mutants continue to remain secret, because the X-Men have been there enforcing the secret, working in tandem with the government. It allows for a POV character to be introduced to the X-Men, similar to Rogue and Wolverine in the first X-Men movie, to introduce us to that world, rather than having to build the entire world from scratch. And it allows for a younger generation of students in their teens who could be the basis of a very different kind of film series. One which is more Mutant Harry Potter than anything else.

At the same time, they're still young enough and new enough that a lot of their enemies have yet to arrive. No Mr. Sinister and the Marauders. No Apocalypse and the Four Horsemen. No Stryfe and the Mutant Liberation Front. No Purifiers. No Reavers. No Hellfire Club. And so on. X-Men with 10 years of history behind them is, in my view, their best bet.

I'm sorry but an X-men team that has been established for a decade, acting at the same time, and in the same places as the Avengers is just a blatant retcon. The MCU's continuity is one of its biggest strengths (spiderman related timeline fudges notwithstanding), for me, a preestablished X-men team completely breaks the willing suspension of disbelief.

They're not equivalent to the examples that you gave. Hank Pym's Ant-man and Captain Marvel operated during an older generation so the Avengers weren't aware of them, but SHIELD certainly was. Spiderman had only been active for about six months in a period of increased Enhanced individuals, and even in that time, Iron Man at least had caught on to him. Black Panther was kept secret by the combined efforts of an entire, technologically enhanced nation. The masters of the mystics arts work in an entirely different dimension to the Avengers.

A few isolated mutants slipping past the Avenger's radar (but being on SHIELD files) is buyable. But a whole-ass superhero team and superhero school operating in America at the same time as the Avengers and not once interacting with them for a decade simply isn't believable. Where were these guys during the invasion of New York, or when Thanos rocked up? ETA: And how do mutants coordinate to keep themselves secret? It takes time for Xavier to reach newly activated mutants, so if mutants have been about for a decade, there have been random teenagers developing powers across the world since before Ironman. SHIELD would know about that.

 

[Orba]

A few isolated mutants slipping past the Avenger's radar (but being on SHIELD files) is buyable. But a whole-ass superhero team and superhero school operating in America at the same time as the Avengers and not once interacting with them for a decade simply isn't believable. Where were these guys during the invasion of New York, or when Thanos rocked up? ETA: And how do mutants coordinate to keep themselves secret? It takes time for Xavier to reach newly activated mutants, so if mutants have been about for a decade, there have been random teenagers developing powers across the world since before Ironman. SHIELD would know about that.

SHIELD may have known about the newly activated Mutants, just not known that they were Mutants. In Iron Man 3 the extremis explosions were assumed to be bombings because no-one thought to look at if there were other possible causes. Without genetic testing how can people tell the difference between someone with powers and someone with Mutant powers.



Until now the X-Men's purpose could have been keeping the Mutant community hidden, sweeping up new Mutants and taking them back to the school where they can learn how to safely use their powers, keeping them away from groups who might want to study them. They could also have worked to deal with attacks by less friendly Mutant.The introduction into the MCU could be that they have decided that they can't sit on the sidelines anymore when the world is threatened. It could even have a PR purpose in that they want to try to create a positive public image of Mutants, the public being more friendly towards normal Mutants if they associate them with heroics.



We know that Nick Fury kept secrets, he was even willing to keep them from SHIELD (like he did with Hawkeye's family). Maybe he has been helping Xavier keep things quiet.

 

[Protar]

SHIELD may have known about the newly activated Mutants, just not known that they were Mutants. In Iron Man 3 the extremis explosions were assumed to be bombings because no-one thought to look at if there were other possible causes. Without genetic testing how can people tell the difference between someone with powers and someone with Mutant powers.



Until now the X-Men's purpose could have been keeping the Mutant community hidden, sweeping up new Mutants and taking them back to the school where they can learn how to safely use their powers, keeping them away from groups who might want to study them. They could also have worked to deal with attacks by less friendly Mutant.The introduction into the MCU could be that they have decided that they can't sit on the sidelines anymore when the world is threatened. It could even have a PR purpose in that they want to try to create a positive public image of Mutants, the public being more friendly towards normal Mutants if they associate them with heroics.



We know that Nick Fury kept secrets, he was even willing to keep them from SHIELD (like he did with Hawkeye's family). Maybe he has been helping Xavier keep things quiet.

The whole "for years we've been standing on the sidelines but now we've decided to come out into the light" only works if you devote considerable screen time to that idea. It worked in Black Panther because Wakanda had centuries of ingrained isolationism and literally the entire film was about overcoming that. It makes very little sense to have a superhero team operating in America at the same time as the Avengers, but never interacting with them and never actually doing any superhero work during the multiple events where they logically should have.

You have to jump through a lot of narrative hoops to even begin to justify having an established X-men team, and for what? You gain very little and risk a lot. Much simpler to have the X-men be new characters.

 

[CaptainWagner]

You all are giving the audience way too little credit. I guarantee you know one will have any issue with a small mutant strike force protected by TWO OF THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL PSYCHICS operating under the radar for a couple decades. The only reason SHIELD knows about Hank Pym and Captain Marvel is because they worked for him. I'm sure they'd heard rumors about the mutants, they probably caught a few and ran tests, but the X-Men, like the Winter Soldier, are just a legend to them.

 

[Protar]

You all are giving the audience way too little credit. I guarantee you know one will have any issue with a small mutant strike force protected by TWO OF THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL PSYCHICS operating under the radar for a couple decades. The only reason SHIELD knows about Hank Pym and Captain Marvel is because they worked for him. I'm sure they'd heard rumors about the mutants, they probably caught a few and ran tests, but the X-Men, like the Winter Soldier, are just a legend to them.

As an audience member, I have an issue with it. The only way it remotely works is if the X-men haven't actually been doing much superhero work for the past decade, and have instead just been a team dedicated to keeping mutants secret. But that is still a big stretch, and it also changes what the X-men are. You'd have to change them into a clandestine organisation which they've never been.

I'm sorry but you just can't have a superhero team operating at the same time and in the same places as the Avengers but never mention them for a decade. It would be a blatant retcon.

 

[Havok83]

As an audience member, I have an issue with it. The only way it remotely works is if the X-men haven't actually been doing much superhero work for the past decade, and have instead just been a team dedicated to keeping mutants secret. But that is still a big stretch, and it also changes what the X-men are. You'd have to change them into a clandestine organisation which they've never been.

I'm sorry but you just can't have a superhero team operating at the same time and in the same places as the Avengers but never mention them for a decade. It would be a blatant retcon.

Well thats not true. They were very much a secret organization in the early days, complete with masks to hide their secret identities. Xavier kept the school hidden and tried to keep the O5 off the radar as much as possible

 

[Protar]

Well thats not true. They were very much a secret organization in the early days, complete with masks to hide their secret identities. Xavier kept the school hidden and tried to keep the O5 off the radar as much as possible

masks and secret identities are par the course for classic comics. My point is that if you want an established X-men team in the MCU, you have to make them outright clandestine to realistically have them avoid the attention of SHIELD and the Avengers. You have to change them from a superhero team to a team dedicated to keeping the very existence of mutants secret. At that point, you're really changing the core of what the team is supposed to be.

And really you gain very little from jumping all these narrative hoops. Why does every new superhero in the mcu need to have been secretly preestablished for years? Wakanda has been hidden for centuries; The Masters of the Mystic Arts have been protecting the earth for millennia; Janet, Hank and Goliath were doing covert superhero work during the sixties; Captain Marvel fought the Skrulls in the 90s and Fury has secretly had her on speed-dial for twenty years. It starts to stretch the willing suspension of disbelief if every new film reveals a hitherto unknown group of preestablished heroes. At least the above heroes were all displaced from the Avengers in time and geography.

In almost all senses: in terms of believability, in terms of freshness, in terms of setting up a new generation of long-term heroes for the MCU, the best option is teenage X-men.

 

[Havok83]

masks and secret identities are par the course for classic comics. My point is that if you want an established X-men team in the MCU, you have to make them outright clandestine to realistically have them avoid the attention of SHIELD and the Avengers. You have to change them from a superhero team to a team dedicated to keeping the very existence of mutants secret. At that point, you're really changing the core of what the team is supposed to be.

And really you gain very little from jumping all these narrative hoops. Why does every new superhero in the mcu need to have been secretly preestablished for years? Wakanda has been hidden for centuries; The Masters of the Mystic Arts have been protecting the earth for millennia; Janet, Hank and Goliath were doing covert superhero work during the sixties; Captain Marvel fought the Skrulls in the 90s and Fury has secretly had her on speed-dial for twenty years. It starts to stretch the willing suspension of disbelief if every new film reveals a hitherto unknown group of preestablished heroes. At least the above heroes were all displaced from the Avengers in time and geography.

In almost all senses: in terms of believability, in terms of freshness, in terms of setting up a new generation of long-term heroes for the MCU, the best option is teenage X-men.

Thats assuming they are super heroes. The X-men could very well just be doing there own thing, focusing on protecting and teaching mutant children, not getting involved in super heroics. Alot of their early stories was not about saving the world but doing just that.

And who says the Avengers dont know about them? In Civil War it was mentioned that theres been an increased number of powered beings popping up. At the time, that could have easily just been a quick reference to the Inhumans, but can retroactively be referring to mutants as well. If the numbers are low enough to be negligible and they have been relatively hands off, then they wouldnt need to be on the Avengers radar. A big boom in X-gene activations courtesy of IW aftermath could change that though

 

[Detective Conan]

Well thats not true. They were very much a secret organization in the early days, complete with masks to hide their secret identities. Xavier kept the school hidden and tried to keep the O5 off the radar as much as possible

Here's my take.

It wouldn't be odd at all. Just make the X-gene a thing that used to be very rare but now (post-Avengers 4) has become a widespread recent phenomenon. Older mutants like Logan, Xavier, Magneto have already existed before as byproducts of an old era of mutation pre-Thanos where the X-gene was more of an anomaly; making it a thing that didn't occur in humans often so the existence of mutants was something that was easier to be kept confidential(only a few people knew of the existence of them like government operatives and maybe some family members that kept their secrets from public) so that's why we haven't heard of mutants until now because their population size prior to Avengers 4 wasn't big enough to be noticed so they fell under the radar. Xavier, Magneto, and Logan - even though they're mutants were able to 'blend' into normal society because they're normal-looking mutants but after Thanos is defeated the X-gene somehow becomes more widespread - to the point that some individuals affected by the X-gene start exhibiting more monstrous or freakish physical characteristics(i.e. Beast) and due to a lack of formal education or guidance on how to control and use their powers the more human-looking mutants like Jean and Cyclops have difficulty fitting into regular society thus facing fear and scorn - the recent widespread upsurge of the rate of humans being mutated by the X-gene prompts Xavier to start a special school to train mutants to control their abilities and use them for the greater good.

 

[MasterCat]

Thats assuming they are super heroes. The X-men could very well just be doing there own thing, focusing on protecting and teaching mutant children, not getting involved in super heroics. Alot of their early stories was not about saving the world but doing just that.

Have you read the early Kirby/Lee stories? The X-Men were super heroes who fought big flashy enemies in New York. They were sufficiently high profile without saving the world that half of Magneto's Brotherhood reformed and became Avengers. The O5 were absolutely not 30-year-old Potterverse wizards maintaining secrecy while living at a school.

 

[Iceman]

Except Sorcerers don't even operate in the same plane of existence as the Avengers. They go to a completely different dimension of reality whenever they use their powers and fight extra-dimensional threats. They are nothing like the X-Men or mutants at all


This is what I want as well. And have the younger mutants like Iceman, Kitty and even Jubilee in the Spider-Man franchise, going to Midtown. One of the best parts of Ultimate Spider-Man.. The main X-Men themselves have only a couple of years of experience under their belts.

Iceman, Kitty and Jubilee being young would be fine. And it would be fun to see them mix with Holland's Spidey and maybe a young Johnny Storm.

 

[Creo]

Anyone knowing of the existence of mutants, especially the X-Men, just doesn't work without substantial hoop jumping.

Knowing of them in Civil War brings up the issue of why they didn't help in any of the conflicts. It's already a major issue with the shows, and one reason many people ignore them as mcu Canon.

Shield knowing about them means Hydra knows of them, and sure to TWS, so does the rest of the world.

Then existing prior means that all bad guy mutants have behaved themselves for the entirety of their existence. There are powerful psychics, but all it takes is a few video recordings or a few stray people to not have their memories wiped and it's not a secret any longer. Not terribly believable.

If they come, they need to be new, and hopefully few in number. The MCU is going to be strained if there's more than a handful.

 

[Marvel united]

masks and secret identities are par the course for classic comics. My point is that if you want an established X-men team in the MCU, you have to make them outright clandestine to realistically have them avoid the attention of SHIELD and the Avengers. You have to change them from a superhero team to a team dedicated to keeping the very existence of mutants secret. At that point, you're really changing the core of what the team is supposed to be.

And really you gain very little from jumping all these narrative hoops. Why does every new superhero in the mcu need to have been secretly preestablished for years? Wakanda has been hidden for centuries; The Masters of the Mystic Arts have been protecting the earth for millennia; Janet, Hank and Goliath were doing covert superhero work during the sixties; Captain Marvel fought the Skrulls in the 90s and Fury has secretly had her on speed-dial for twenty years. It starts to stretch the willing suspension of disbelief if every new film reveals a hitherto unknown group of preestablished heroes. At least the above heroes were all displaced from the Avengers in time and geography.

In almost all senses: in terms of believability, in terms of freshness, in terms of setting up a new generation of long-term heroes for the MCU, the best option is teenage X-men.

 

[MasterCat]

Anyone knowing of the existence of mutants, especially the X-Men, just doesn't work without substantial hoop jumping.

Knowing of them in Civil War brings up the issue of why they didn't help in any of the conflicts. It's already a major issue with the shows, and one reason many people ignore them as mcu Canon.

Shield knowing about them means Hydra knows of them, and sure to TWS, so does the rest of the world.

These are really good points. Any mutants who were in SHIELD's files as of Winter Soldier would be publicly-known superhumans from that point forward. So the United Nations would have demanded their registration in Civil War, and so on...
You can say Charles Xavier used his psychic abilities to mind trick any authorities who came looking for him and that Magneto and Logan are known but unmentioned on-screen, but to have X-Men before the Winter Soldier film would logically entail that he had the power and desire to make SHIELD and their parents forget about the public manifestation of super powers by every mutant going through puberty.

 

[fan4stic]

These are really good points. Any mutants who were in SHIELD's files as of Winter Soldier would be publicly-known superhumans from that point forward. So the United Nations would have demanded their registration in Civil War, and so on...
You can say Charles Xavier used his psychic abilities to mind trick any authorities who came looking for him and that Magneto and Logan are known but unmentioned on-screen, but to have X-Men before the Winter Soldier film would logically entail that he had the power and desire to make SHIELD and their parents forget about the public manifestation of super powers by every mutant going through puberty.

The SHIELD files were encrypted. As far as I remember Zemo was the one who cracked it.

 

[Jordacar]

Has anyone mentioned Xavier's ability to wipe the memories of witnesses if things get out of hand?

Could certainly account for at least some of the whole Important Marvel People Not Knowing Mutants Are A Thing Yet.

 

[Marvel united]

Has anyone mentioned Xavier's ability to wipe the memories of witnesses if things get out of hand?

Could certainly account for at least some of the whole Important Marvel People Not Knowing Mutants Are A Thing Yet.

Marvel would be wise not to make Xavier that op. Because once you give Xavier the ability to mind wipe millions of people, you create a solution to every single problem or threat any earth hero faces in the MCU.

 

[Abudefduf]

You guys want Marvel to turn the X-Men into Men in Black. It's Professor X, not Agent X.