Michael B Jordan IS Erik Killmonger!

[Iceman]

The first true test of his career. Can he succeed without his boi?

Course not! t:

 

[KevTravels]

Course not! t:

Def MBJ has shown that his non-Coogler films leave a lot to be desired. t:

Their rumor of the Mansa Musa film def seems intriguing.

 

[Iceman]

Def MBJ has shown that his non-Coogler films leave a lot to be desired. t:

Their rumor of the Mansa Musa film def seems intriguing.

Yeah sounds interesting.

Coogler’s next project will be Fant4stic 2.

 

[KevTravels]

Yeah sounds interesting.

Coogler’s next project will be Fant4stic 2.

I totally agree. They're supposed to do Wrong Answer before that. Hopefully that will finally net him an Oscar nod.

 

[RockSP]

 

[Pennywise]

Pretty funny story about how a girl broke her retainer when she saw Kilmonger shirtless!

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/michael-b-jordan-black-panther-girl-retainer

 

[BigSams50]

I keep forgetting he was on the Wire.

My issue had more with the delivery of his lines in the sunset scene. When he talks about being buried in the ocean, he didn't sound like someone who was mortally wounded.

Especially when he sees the sunset, and says "Its so beautiful" I was confused because he didnt seem hurt at all in that scene.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Especially when he sees the sunset, and says "Its so beautiful" I was confused because he didnt seem hurt at all in that scene.

He was clearly registering a high level of pain after T'Challa stabbed him. He was struggling to breathe, and he seemed to know that his death was imminent. As the minutes passed, he likely felt the cold/numb feeling that dying people often describe as their bodies lose the requisite blood/oxygen to sustain life. We didn't see him graphically bleeding out because that was likely too gory for Marvel film.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I bet we see Killmonger again. Probably in the spiritual plane when T'challa communes with ancestral kings. Killmonger did become a king.

There's also the possibility of the resurrection altar. With the reception that Jordan has received, it wouldn't shock me to see someone like Loki or Mordo use something like the altar to bring Killmonger back.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Especially when he sees the sunset, and says "Its so beautiful" I was confused because he didnt seem hurt at all in that scene.

Won't lie - thought the whole scene/exchange wsd very cringeworthy. Once I saw BP leading him towards the suns I was like "Ohhh ok, here the line comes to call back on his father's description of Wakanda". It didn't help the fact that it was coming on the heels of a bad CGI-fight sequence.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, the "ancestors jumping overboard" line came off as ridiculous, too.

Doesn't work regarding his father's side - Wakanda was never breached to have Wakandans taken away as slaves. Doesn't work for his mother's side either - if they'd bailed on the boat, they either died or made it back to the shore.

 

[RockSP]

^

Obviously you are taking what he said too literally. And even if you want to go there, he could have a great great great blah blah grandfather that jumped off a boat, but that person's son or daughter didn't jump.

 

[Pink Ranger]

A scene where Loki tries to verbally justify and coerce Killmonger into a particular course of action (or vice versa!) would be a scene of masterful dialogue to rival any action sequence.

 

[Loki882]

Also Killmonger say all Black People as "his people," not Wakandans (he actually seems to hate Wakandans if anything). So when he says "my ancestors," he means Black Africans who were enslaved in general (also his mother was American and he grew up in Oakland).

 

[Melpardus]

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...anther-erik-killmonger/553805/?utm_source=fbb

This article (which I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen brought up at all in 25+ pages of commentary on this character) coupled with the general gist of the misogyny-discussing posts from earlier pretty much sum up why Killmonger is considered one of the MCU's most relatable villains; it's because we [African Americans, at least] all know this guy on some level. (A lot of the "Killmonger was the real hero, **** T'Challa" folks online are arguably this guy without the military training - in some cases, anyway.) Plus his goals for a global black empire born out of an armed global uprising are pretty much the embodiment of what white Westerners fear, so even if they didn't sympathize with him or his ideology at all, he still largely worked as a villain to hate.

As such, I found him to be a very compelling tragic villain.

 

[DeadStroke]

Yeah, the "ancestors jumping overboard" line came off as ridiculous, too.

Doesn't work regarding his father's side - Wakanda was never breached to have Wakandans taken away as slaves. Doesn't work for his mother's side either - if they'd bailed on the boat, they either died or made it back to the shore.

Awful take.

You do realize that people brother's, sister's, aunts, etc jumped off the boat right? Certain family members decided death was better than captivity.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, in a broader take it makes more sense.


QUOTE:
"Plus his goals for a global black empire born out of an armed global uprising are pretty much the embodiment of what white Westerners fear"


And extremist Farrakhan types fantasize about...

Killmonger's still a majorly bad seed, man. You fix the world's problems through MLKing this, not Malcolm Xing it.

Pretty much the entire point of the X-Men movies.

 

[Melpardus]

Yeah, in a broader take it makes more sense.


QUOTE:
"Plus his goals for a global black empire born out of an armed global uprising are pretty much the embodiment of what white Westerners fear"


And extremist Farrakhan types fantasize about...

Killmonger's still a majorly bad seed, man. You fix the world's problems through MLKing this, not Malcolm Xing it.

Pretty much the entire point of the X-Men movies.

I never said I thought he was a good person, he's just a tragically identifiable figure. Additionally, as an amateur "historian", I feel like the Malcolm X comparisons are very misguided and disingenuous to both he and Killmonger. (Much moreso the former, of course.) A lot of people - blacks folks included - are/have taken X's "by any means necessary" line way too liberally and apply it to any time black folks arm themselves or prove standoffish. As the article points out, the movie doesn't argue against violence to solve the problem, just violence towards the goal of hegemony and imperialism. (I think the closest real-world analogue to Killmonger's ideology would be the splinter members of the Black Panther Party or the New Black Panther, who have more of a militant nihilist sensibility (as mentioned in the article) and are definitely the "kill all white folks" type; Farrakhan is more "They're all devils, God'll take care of 'em" type.)

(And at the same time, they pigeonhole MLK into an absolute pacifist while ignoring his more "extremist" and "radical" stances that he ended up shifting towards after the passage of the Civil Rights Act. (The under-reported "I fear I may have integrated my people into a burning house" comes to mind.) Really, the both of them shifted much closer to a middle ground of each other's ideologies after they gained notoriety, but both were assassinated before they could really open up to the world about it.)

 

[JeetKuneDo]

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...anther-erik-killmonger/553805/?utm_source=fbb

This article (which I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen brought up at all in 25+ pages of commentary on this character) coupled with the general gist of the misogyny-discussing posts from earlier pretty much sum up why Killmonger is considered one of the MCU's most relatable villains; it's because we [African Americans, at least] all know this guy on some level. (A lot of the "Killmonger was the real hero, **** T'Challa" folks online are arguably this guy without the military training - in some cases, anyway.) Plus his goals for a global black empire born out of an armed global uprising are pretty much the embodiment of what white Westerners fear, so even if they didn't sympathize with him or his ideology at all, he still largely worked as a villain to hate.

As such, I found him to be a very compelling tragic villain.

Yikes. There are people so disturbed that they think the bad guy in this movie is the good guy? Wow.

T'Challa is the intelligent character as usual....but some are seeing him with disdain? That's pretty sad that the dangerous evil extremist is the one some people want to "identify with".

 

[Melpardus]

For a lot of diasporic Africans (particularly in the U.S.), it's not so much that they want to identify with Killmonger; his motivations and overall circumstances just make him relatable on at least some level. (Even Boseman himself says that he personally finds himself more inclined towards Killmonger's ideals - without the violent black hegemony angle, of course.)

I think the response that Killmonger is getting is much more telling of real-world Western society and its history of oppression that the film comments about (through Killmonger's criticism of both it and Wakanda's historical inaction) than the people themselves. Killmonger taps into a lot that people could/will/have devoted essays to on various sociopolitical topics, and very rarely do you see such a cathartic image of "black rage" onscreen and portrayed in a tragic, sympathetic manner such that the average viewer can at least understand where it comes from. Again, he's a realistic villain (way more grounded at least, than a Dark Elf or whatever Thanos is) with good points that the hero doesn't initially stand for (and ultimately learns from him through their conflict) but they're tied into a twisted overall ideology he developed. Of course, I'm not saying every black person was 100% Killmonger, but I can't say that a lot of them who recognized him as a villain (myself included) didn't want to see him come back around for a redemption arc - especially since Loki's oily-haired self has since been redeemed through a few movies, even though he tried to commit genocide and enslave the entire planet pretty early on in his MCU run.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Even as white guy I relate to Killmonger, and on my 2nd viewing last night got a bit teary eyed at his death. He should have had a much better life than he ended up having, and the reason he didn't was because that choice was taken away from him by T'Chaka.

I think anyone can relate to that as we all have things taken away from us in life.

But, in the end T'Challa was right, Killmonger became like the people he hated and his anger was leading to a very dangerous path.

T'Challa learned the right lessons from it also, that ALL people should band together to make the world better, not just a certain race or people, but everyone, to make, as T'Challa put it himself 'one tribe.'

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Killmonger did help draw the matter away from the more interesting angle though. Sure, he didn't have it great but you can hardly say that black people in the US are very lacking compared to so many people in Africa.

He had a mind towards those black people as well, but the film clearly focuses more on the US and only briefly touches on the actually difficult part of black people in the world. Even when T'Challa starts his project to help the world he starts in one of the richest countries in the world (because of family ties, but still) instead of where extreme poverty is rampant.

I think that takes away some of the powerful message, and kind of reminds me of that this movie would probably not be nearly as successful if it had instead been about something like a secret, advanced Arab country.

It's not really big criticism since I don't expect more from a superhero movie. It's just thinking about the topic.

 

[tamron]

Really, the both of them shifted much closer to a middle ground of each other's ideologies after they gained notoriety, but both were assassinated before they could really open up to the world about it.

I would argue because they opened up to the world about it. MLK's anti-Vietnam stance and push toward a broader coalition of poor across racial lines was big news in 1967 and he wasn't assassinated until a year later. X had prominently become Malik el-hajj Shabazz and very publicly broken from NOI prior to his assassination.

When they were at extremes it was beneficial to the status quo to leave them be; They polarized the larger public. Once their middle ground shifts invited a larger coalition to the table, they became seen as real problems. It's why, imho, they are memorialized at their extremes: to calcify their impact.

Agree with everything else you said though.

 

[Melpardus]

I would argue because they opened up to the world about it. MLK's anti-Vietnam stance and push toward a broader coalition of poor across racial lines was big news in 1967 and he wasn't assassinated until a year later. X had prominently become Malik el-hajj Shabazz and very publicly broken from NOI prior to his assassination.

When they were at extremes it was beneficial to the status quo to leave them be; They polarized the larger public. Once their middle ground shifts invited a larger coalition to the table, they became seen as real problems. It's why, imho, they are memorialized at their extremes: to calcify their impact.

Agree with everything else you said though.

Fair point. I think what I meant by "opening up" was the idea of actually acting upon their new ideologies in such a way that history doesn't treat their shifts from more polarizing positions as an afterthought. (Which is usually how it's taught and propagated in U.S. schools, if addressed at all.) Like, King was shot before he could launch a new Poor Peoples' March on Washington, and Shabazz had only just started forming a new coalition that was publicly open to allyship with people of other ethnicities and races while still being Afrocentric. Heck, even the original Black Panther Party allied themselves with coalitions of like-minded groups of other races to organize a poor peoples' movement of their own before they were dismantled.

I must say, it does amuse me to watch conservative and otherwise history-denying websites review this movie and try to find an angle to attack it from on those grounds, in no small part because of what Killmonger brings up and represents in addition to how T'Challa and Wakanda respond to and learn from the experience. Like, I've seen some reviews claim that the entire premise is based on revisionist history (not regarding Wakanda specifically, but rather colonialism and slavery), even though Killmonger's first scene is literally a history lesson on colonialism in the Africa wing of a British museum.

 

[RockSP]

Additionally, as an amateur "historian", I feel like the Malcolm X comparisons are very misguided and disingenuous...

Most definitely. People really need to stop with the "Killmonger (or Magneto) is Malcolm" nonsense. Magneto and Killmonger are murderers and terrorists. That was not Malcolm's message.