Fant4stic Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[Orba]

If it is a case where Franklin Storm was friends with Sue's real parents that would mean that they have felt the need to add a storyline to explain Sue's connection to the family. If the film makers considered the relationship to be something everyday you would think they would have just given the characters without ever bothering to try to explain things. So they are adding things to the film to explain why Trank's friend got cast in the part. If they are going to do it fine, but they should stand up for convictions and basically say "Here they are, deal with it", not try to explain themselves.

Didn't MBJ once basically say that Trank had given him the role right back when Trank first got the job?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Excellent job cherry-picking what you do and do not read in my posts. If you honestly have not read everything I have said, I invite you to skim over what I posted yesterday:

Q. Are Johnny Storm and Sue Storm related?
A. No, clearly.

Q. Is this a pretty drastic change in "Marvels first family"?
A. I would say so

Q. Is it a coincidence that MBJ has been in 100% of Trank's films so far?
A. Probably not

Q. From there, could one reasonably assume that this whole new backstory of the Storm family was rewritten to accommodate Trank's buddy?
A. Absolutely

Q. Is this something else on the long list of things that some fans could reasonably be upset about?
A. Absolutely

Again, is this line of thinking belittling to interracial families or people who are adopted? No. It's acknowledging that a change has been made in the mythos for no good reason. Also again, please note that I've said it's something I could easily look past if the rest of the movie had things going for it. But no matter, this post will probably be ignored again so people can remain offended.

Excellent job looking for offense and cherry picking yourself Flint... You also (unlike others) didn't even bother to give me a source for this supposed change that you all are getting up in arms over. To say that "clearly" they aren't biological siblings is NOT factual as far as I can see at this time. Again... People born to parents that are African and those that are European can come out looking like Wentworth Miller or Norah Jones, so... Mara and Jordan can play brother and sister and if they are not... Again, what's the big deal?

No... At this point even after the trailer showed that it's not an unmitigated disaster (not the greatest thing ever either... It's a teaser trailer) thee are apparently posters that just want to vent as though they are the victim of some vastly unjust wrong and comer here EVERYDAY to do it. When confronted that, Ya know, in the real world there are adopted siblings of different races and that it changes little to nothing about the bond between brother and sister or that they can actually be blood relations you get more victim card throwing ("Don't cherry pick my posts and insinuate I'm racist/don't understand adopted families, ect").

I am an FF fan and lord knows, NO, this isn't the FF film I would have made in the least. I wouldn't have gone UFF in influence or many of the other choices I have seen. I wouldn't have had the guts to cast MBJ despite the inevitable firestorm. Those details aren't germane as to whether this is or isn't a good movie, which is the primary job of the people charged with adapting these things to the screen, not fidelity to the idea a fan has about the FF because they are a long time reader of the comic or watched the various toons of the team. It sucks as a fan, but the response from so many, to just continually dig a hole of resentment or to an obtuse extent continue to theorize how two siblings of different looks can't have a bond the way Sue and Johnny have classicly had is the very flower of the fanboy caricature. Then again, folks around here fly off the handle at pictures of sleeping puppies so...

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Wasn't their a rumour that Sue's real parents were friends of the Storms and Sue was taken in after they died?

That's what I heard too

Q. Are Johnny Storm and Sue Storm related?
A. Yes, just not by blood.

Q. Is this a pretty drastic change in "Marvels first family"?
A. No since none of this will affect the comics, but in the movie verse it changes a backstory and nothing more so isn't drastic

Corrected these answers

 

[SuperT]

^ Very well said. It just basically boils down to "This isn't the way I wanted it, so I hate it." when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it at all.

At the core of FF it's all about family, and seeing that being adapted and updated in a way that'll be able to relate to a large portion of our society is awesome. I love the idea that SUE is the one that's adopted since everyone here, including myself, assumed right off the bat that it would Johnny, the African-American that was adopted.

I say more power to Trank because a lot of superhero movies, and hell movies in general, wouldn't have the balls to do it.

 

[Kelly]

^ Very well said. It just basically boils down to "This isn't the way I wanted it, so I hate it." when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it at all.

At the core of FF it's all about family, and seeing that being adapted and updated in a way that'll be able to relate to a large portion of our society is awesome. I love the idea that SUE is the one that's adopted since everyone here, including myself, assumed right off the bat that it would Johnny, the African-American that was adopted.

I say more power to Trank because a lot of superhero movies, and hell movies in general, wouldn't have the balls to do it.

That is simply a difference of opinion. So what? You are liking what you see, and someone else isn't....doesn't make you anymore right than the other person, or vice versa for that matter. It's just two differing opinions of a production.

 

[Kelly]

I think some need to take a step back and not take differing opinions so personally.

Not liking what is being heard and seen thus far is not a slam on society.
Loving what you see is not a slam to the original F4 Comic book.

They are simply differing opinions.

Chill out people...

 

[Flint Marko]

That is simply a difference of opinion. So what? You are liking what you see, and someone else isn't....doesn't make you anymore right than the other person, or vice versa for that matter. It's just two differing opinions of a production.

Not liking what is being heard and seen thus far is not a slam on society.

That about sums up everything I have left to say on the matter.

 

[Zarex]

^ Very well said. It just basically boils down to "This isn't the way I wanted it, so I hate it." when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it at all.

An indication that Trank's extremely loose adaptation of the Fantastic Four has been horribly miscast comes from the realization that the 2nd time director could have vastly improved it by shifting the the three male leads into other roles.

Michael B Jordan is Reed Richards
Putting Jordan in the lead moves the only African American member from the "immature ladies man" role to "smartest guy in the room". No change to family dynamics are required and Trank still gets to work with his pal.

Miles Teller is Benjamin Grimm
Teller is of a fairly decent size and a bit rough looking. Add in his Jewish heritage, and this is a nice fit. I could actually invision him as a former football star. Not so much wee Jamie.

Jamie Bell is Johnny Storm
Jamie fits the Johnny role far better than he does Ben. Though it's ridiculous that the three male leads of the Tranktastic Four were born within a year of each other, Jamie could be a convincing "little brother" to the rest of the team.

You don't see this with the Avengers, the X-Men or any other superhero team that studios care about.

 

[Orba]

Yeah making MBJ play Reed could have been interesting, not simply the smartest guy in the room but one of the smartest guys on the planet.

 

[C. Lee]

Ya know, in the real world there are adopted siblings of different races and that it changes little to nothing about the bond between brother and sister or that they can actually be blood relations you get more victim card throwing ("Don't cherry pick my posts and insinuate I'm racist/don't understand adopted families, ect").

Maybe....just maybe....people have no trouble acknowledgeing that in today's world there are families made up of different races that get along just fine with each other...but simply don't like that characters that have existed in multiple medias for over 50 years have been changed from ALL of those past multiple media interpretations.

 

[metaphysician]

Maybe....just maybe....people have no trouble acknowledgeing that in today's world there are families made up of different races that get along just fine with each other...but simply don't like that characters that have existed in multiple medias for over 50 years have been changed from ALL of those past multiple media interpretations.

Or in my case: I have no issue with them deciding Johnny Storm is black. . . if they made the rest of the Storm family black, too. Including Sue.

Fox not doing so is indicative of nothing less than MBJ being the token black hero, I guarantee it. They are desperately afraid of giving the hero anything but a blue eyed blonde for a love interest.

 

[Orba]

I think ultimately it comes down to films making unnecessary changes that they then feel a need to take time out of the film to explain, but if he had been given any other role (or made Sue coloured) they wouldn't have needed to bother wasting time explaining things.

Now this could be worse, its not like in that last Transformers where they literally stopped the film to explain that it wasn't illegal that the one character was dating an underage girl. Now that one was a real mess (the guy even went around with a laminated copy of the law in his pocket) that wouldn't have even been necessary if they had made the one character just one year older.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Fox not doing so is indicative of nothing less than MBJ being the token black hero, I guarantee it. They are desperately afraid of giving the hero anything but a blue eyed blonde for a love interest.

So you think if there are sequels Johnny won't be allowed to kiss some random asian, latina, or.....white woman on screen?


Oh my god, I've got the vapors. I due declare.... interracial relations!

You want to see a token black sidekick, go look at Falcon in TWS.

 

[Flint Marko]

You want to see a token black sidekick, go look at Falcon in TWS.

.....
Not even gonna touch that one.

 

[Paradox1]

.....
Not even gonna touch that one.

It's no secret, every black hero or character for that matter in the marvel universe has been a supporting character so far.

 

[C. Lee]

So you think if there are sequels Johnny won't be allowed to kiss some random asian, latina, or.....white woman on screen?

You need to work on your reading comprehension....he was not saying that this Johnny would not be able to kiss someone outside his race....he was talking about how Trank should have had the balls to make Sue African American also, but instead he kept her as a blue eyed blonde....the blue eyed blonde that the hero REED RICHARDS winds up kissing and marrying.

Oh my god, I've got the vapors. I due declare.... interracial relations!

You got the vapors alright....

You want to see a token black sidekick, go look at Falcon in TWS.

Really? The Falcon has been a friend and associate of Captain America in the comics since 1969....that's 46 years.....for 46 years Sam Wilson (AKA The Falcon) and Steve Rogers (AKA Captain America) have been friends and working together....and you consider that tokenism?

 

[RAE072]

Or in my case: I have no issue with them deciding Johnny Storm is black. . . if they made the rest of the Storm family black, too. Including Sue.

Fox not doing so is indicative of nothing less than MBJ being the token black hero, I guarantee it. They are desperately afraid of giving the hero anything but a blue eyed blonde for a love interest.

That's exactly it.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's no secret, every black hero or character for that matter in the marvel universe has been a supporting character so far.

And they have taken moves to address that. But to call a supporting character like the Falcon a "token black", especially when they are a staple in the Captain America comics and have been for years, is ludicrous. Anthony Mackie was one of the best parts of that movie, and his role was not relegated to an inconsequential side character.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

It's no secret, every black hero or character for that matter in the marvel universe has been a supporting character so far.

It wasn't even that, Falcon in the comic is Cap's sounding board and equal.

In the movie he came across as just tagging along after BW and Cap asked.

Story's Torch was a clown for clown sake. We got no sense of what his and Sue'
s relationship was based on. It didn't matter what skin tone similarities they had.

 

[Kelly]

Then it is certainly past time for the writers to create a front and center character....OR....bring one of those supporting characters to the front page and create a slamming script for a movie.

 

[Kelly]

It wasn't even that, Falcon in the comic is Cap's sounding board and equal.

In the movie he came across as just tagging along after BW and Cap asked.

Story's Torch was a clown for clown sake. We got no sense of what his and Sue'
s relationship was based on. It didn't matter what skin tone similarities they had.

You keep moving to character as the go to argument, when I believe most that don't understand the change is for the visual. Comics are not just pieces of literature, they are pieces of art....even to the point of garnering their own New York Art Shows....it's not about the characterization, it is about the fact that every artist in the history of this comic has pretty much drawn Johnny along the same lines, and that is what they wanted to see on the screen. Pretty simple...and no one thus far has really given a good reason for the change, other than change for change sake. It was a buddy call, I understand that...

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You need to work on your reading comprehension....he was not saying that this Johnny would not be able to kiss someone outside his race....he was talking about how Trank should have had the balls to make Sue African American also, but instead he kept her as a blue eyed blonde....the blue eyed blonde that the hero REED RICHARDS winds up kissing and marrying.

I understood that, I've said previously, bash MBJ as nepotism all you want. I can't deny it.

Mara did audition. Trank liked her chemistry with MBJ and Teller. Unless you have evidence he never auditioned minority actresses, the Mara won her role and Sue stayed white.

Johnny is black so it's not like there's some fear of interracial relationships with the main characters.

Really? The Falcon has been a friend and associate of Captain America in the comics since 1969....that's 46 years.....for 46 years Sam Wilson (AKA The Falcon) and Steve Rogers (AKA Captain America) have been friends and working together....and you consider that tokenism?

Keep reading my post.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You keep moving to character as the go to argument, when I believe most that don't understand the change is for the visual. Comics are not just pieces of literature, they are pieces of art....even to the point of garnering their own New York Art Shows....it's not about the characterization, it is about the fact that every artist in the history of this comic has pretty much drawn Johnny along the same lines, and that is what they wanted to see on the screen. Pretty simple...and no one thus far has really given a good reason for the change, other than change for change sake. It was a buddy call, I understand that...

No one can argue what people personally want to see. Comics are comics, movies are movies. Plays are plays.

None of them simply abide by some "must have" when adapting from each other.

Peter Pan is a boy, played sometimes by girls in the theater. Cause men can't? No. In movies, he's played by young boys.

In Trank's adaption, the role of Johnny Storm will be played by MBJ and then the stage curtain rises.

I'm sorry if you guys don't feel like you'll live another X years to see a white Johnny Storm again.(That's not sarcasm)

 

[RAE072]

Haha, yes. Peter Pan is traditionally played by women on the stage.

Traditionally.

What race has Johnny Storm traditionally been portrayed as?

TRADITIONALLY?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Haha, yes. Peter Pan is traditionally played by women on the stage.

Traditionally.

What race has Johnny Storm traditionally been portrayed as?

TRADITIONALLY?

When did tradition and always suddenly have the same meaning?