Fant4stic Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[TheComicbookKid]

I'm not trying to spite anyone, I'm just pointing out how people become hypocritical when situations are changed about. You can change any white character to be another race and even change their histories around but if it's a black character there is no way you can change things because their culture and identities are tied to their race.

You do realize you're being the hypocrite right? Minorities have been having to deal with this for decades.

Of course then, it wasn't something you cared about so... tough to us.

Olive skinned Katniss is pale skin, Academy winner JLaw and there was no boycott or hoping it fails so we can get it right in casting.

 

[Paradox1]

Nah. Some part is genuine dislike for difference between book and adaptation.

That happens with everything adapted.

Jessica Alba has pale skin, but she's Latina and Evans is white. They are about as much siblings as Mara and MBJ.(yes there are white latinos).

But it's hard to separate this FF movie from the larger Hollywood casting non-sense that white actors benefit from 99% of the time.

In the Godzilla analogy....

A story featuring minority characters is reworked for an American setting and erases the character's metaphor, not for updating it(Japan exist, the bomb still happened), but because Hollywood studios don't want to promote minority actors.

So no. I wouldn't get upset that some genetically gifted white dude named Chris has to settle for auditioning for one of the 20 other blockbuster films cause a black dude took the fourth slot in one movie.

I mean that argument to me sounds like two kids fighting in a sandbox over toys. For example the girl takes the little boy's GI Joe and starts playing with it like she would a Barbie. The little boy gets upset says "lets see how you like it". Then does the reverse on her favorite Barbie to spite her.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I mean that argument to me sounds like two kids fighting in a sandbox over toys. For example the girl takes the little boy's GI Joe and starts playing with it like she would a Barbie. The little boy gets upset says "lets see how you like it". Then does the reverse on her favorite Barbie to spite her.

Yeah, i see it.

But I don't want to belittle the genuine part that does want to see Johnny as they know him. It is a change.

But I don't like it when it becomes biological vs. adopted thing. It's like admitting that yeah, it's still a family is conceding some imaginary ground.

So it ends up as adopted families are too complicated!!
Or they just should have been black.(as if Iris being black didn't catch crap on the Flash casting cause interracial stuff isn't accepted)

 

[Kelly]

You do realize you're being the hypocrite right? Minorities have been having to deal with this for decades.

Of course then, it wasn't something you cared about so... tough to us.

Olive skinned Katniss is pale skin, Academy winner JLaw and there was no boycott or hoping it fails so we can get it right in casting.

Show me the art for "The Hunger Games" NOVEL, where her character has been drawn, pretty much the same way for decades....

I proved the visual in favor of Alba, by showing MK issues where she looked very similar to Sue....so really that argument was squelched except for a negative troll. The look of the cast ended up not being an issue, except in the case of Thing and Doom, which I learned was very important to these fans.

 

[Paradox1]

Show me the art for "The Hunger Games" NOVEL, where her character has been drawn, pretty much the same way for decades....

How does time make it any less of a legitimate claim?

 

[Kelly]

How does time make it any less of a legitimate claim?

What?

 

[Paradox1]

What?

About the Hunger Games, the protagonist minority character from the books being played by Jenifer Lawerence in the film.

 

[Kelly]

About the Hunger Games, the protagonist minority character from the books being played by Jenifer Lawerence in the film.

I still have no clue what you are talking about...

I'm talking about comics as not just a form of literature but ART, whereas the Hunger Games is a NOVEL, with a "literary description" of its main character for people to form that characters looks in their imagination for the most part, whereas a comic book is as much an art form as it is a piece of literature, and therefore the visual is well set, and in this case over decades as well as 616, MK, Adventure and UFF...Johnny was one of the least changing character visually of the bunch. If people want to see something as close to that visual as they can, they should have the right to have that opinion.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Show me the art for "The Hunger Games" NOVEL, where her character has been drawn, pretty much the same way for decades....

Well since the character isn't that old, that would be impossible.

I can find you the Captain Nemo character being Indian but played by white actors.

Or Heathcliffe in Wuthering Heights being described as dark-skinned and having otherness being adapted as white in movies.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I still have no clue what you are talking about...

I'm talking about comics as not just a form of literature but ART, whereas the Hunger Games is a NOVEL, with a "literary description" of its main character for people to form that characters looks in their imagination for the most part, whereas a comic book is as much an art form as it is a piece of literature, and therefore the visual is well set, and in this case over decades as well as 616, MK, Adventure and UFF...Johnny was one of the least changing character visually of the bunch. If people want to see something as close to that visual as they can, they should have the right to have that opinion.

But comics are a "new medium" 80 years versus the entire written/visual human history.

Are you arguing that because it's a visual medium, the adaptations can't bring new visuals to the medium? Movies aren't given such a standard.

Why should comics have some supposed special place where characters can't be majorly altered in adaptation?

 

[Kelly]

But comics are a "new medium" 80 years versus the entire written/visual human history.

Are you arguing that because it's a visual medium, the adaptations can't bring new visuals to the medium? Movies aren't given such a standard.

Why should comics have some supposed special place where characters can't be majorly altered in adaptation?

Good Grief!

Discussing with you is like talking to a "brick wall."

I'm not saying that, I haven't said that, NOT ONCE.....

I am simply saying that the questioning, upon questioning, upon questioning of why, why, why, why these comic book fans are not happy with what they are seeing is very much a "visual" thing, not racial, not an attack on a family dynamic, NONE of the above, it is simply the fact that ONCE, JUST ONCE, they wanted to see a good adaptation that is AS CLOSE to the comic book they have read and come to know over the decades...THAT IS ALL.

I'm not discussing with you anymore, you either don't want to see this, you don't care, or you just want to argue, whatever it is....it is getting annoying.

I'm done with you...

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Good Grief!

Discussing with you is like talking to a "brick wall."

I'm not saying that, I haven't said that, NOT ONCE.....

I am simply saying that the questioning, upon questioning, upon questioning of why, why, why, why these comic book fans are not happy with what they are seeing is very much a "visual" thing, not racial, not an attack on a family dynamic, NONE of the above, it is simply the fact that ONCE, JUST ONCE, they wanted to see a good adaptation that is AS CLOSE to the comic book they have read and come to know over the decades...THAT IS ALL.

I'm not discussing with you anymore, you either don't want to see this, you don't care, or you just want to argue, whatever it is....it is getting annoying.

I'm done with you...

Did you read my post?

I said there is genuine desire to see the comic as is. NOTHING MORE.

I said, that desire gets lost in crazy reasoning that ends up making arguments about biological vs. adopted that comes across as angry.

I never said anything about not understanding. We all understand each other sides, the language used to defend it gets unnecessarily inflammatory.

 

[Kelly]

Did you read my post?

I said there is genuine desire to see the comic as is. NOTHING MORE.

I said, that desire gets lost in crazy reasoning that ends up making arguments about biological vs. adopted that comes across as angry.

I never said anything about not understanding. We all understand each other sides, the language used to defend it gets unnecessarily inflammatory.

Yeah, ok...

 

[Dasher10]

I just feel like this is a massive double standard.

Nick Fury in comics = white guy. Played by Samuel L. Jackson who's black.

Aquaman in comics = white guy. Played by Jason Momoa who's native American.

Bane in comics = Latino. Played by Tom hardy who's white.

Heimdall in comics = white. Played by Idris Elba who's black.

Mandarin in comics = Asian. Played by Guy Pearce who's white.

R'as Al Ghul in comics = Arab. Played by Liam Neeson who's white.

None of these bother people but suddenly a black Human Torch is terrible?

The talk about Trank's behavior, the studio's desire to replace him for the sequel and the reshoots make me feel like if anyone is the problem, it's certainly not Jordan.

Jordan mentioned being a big fan of the source material (as have Teller and Kebbel) and if reports are correct, Kinberg put heart and soul trying to fix Jeremy Slater's script which was probably an overexpensive trainwreck while keeping Trank in line. I don't feel like Vaughn is much of a problem either since he has a good track record. If this film fails, we know who to point the finger at and demand he leave the franchise. The last thing that I want to see is Josh Trank become to the FF what Avi Arad is to Spider-Man.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Yeah, ok...

Yeah, exactly. Without the outlandish statements on either side, there isn't much to be said.

I want my comics on screen like the comics is about as simple a declarative statement one can make. But on a internet message board, arguing is the soup du jour.

I don't like the neck snap. I said so after the movie for a few weeks then just left it alone. It happened. I can either not go forward with watching the sequel or keep watching.

I don't want the Zuckerburg of Lex Luthors but this isn't my Superman movie to make. No I still haven't seen my Lex on screen.

I get it. We all do. We all have 'our' franchises we care about. I can't make you or anyone else care less, but I can't also make things better for you guys.

 

[cronosred]

I just want to say that personally I want more variety when it comes to superhero films and tv shows but I don't think we have to change an established characters race and background to do it. Hopefully Black Panther, Luke Cage, and Cyborg will become big hits so Hollywood will take more chances at bringing many more established minority superhero's to the big and small screen played by minority actors.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I just want to say that personally I want more variety when it comes to superhero films and tv shows but I don't think we have to change an established characters race and background to do it. Hopefully Black Panther, Luke Cage, and Cyborg will become big hits so Hollywood will take more chances at bringing many more established minority superhero's to the big and small screen played by minority actors.

i'm more on the "if only Panther does well" they will bring more original minority characters to the big screen.

Making all three have to be successful to get more is apart of the problem.

If Ant-man fails, you think Marvel is going to put Dr. Strange on hold? Heck no.

I still want my RUNAWAYS movie Marvel!!!!

 

[Paradox1]

I still have no clue what you are talking about...

I'm talking about comics as not just a form of literature but ART, whereas the Hunger Games is a NOVEL, with a "literary description" of its main character for people to form that characters looks in their imagination for the most part, whereas a comic book is as much an art form as it is a piece of literature, and therefore the visual is well set, and in this case over decades as well as 616, MK, Adventure and UFF...Johnny was one of the least changing character visually of the bunch. If people want to see something as close to that visual as they can, they should have the right to have that opinion.

Let's be real for a second the visual of comic do not compare to that of a literary description. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. However I doubt a thousand words could describe how Johnny Storm looks. While a good literally description demands more because the writer has to make you see what they see.

 

[Zarex]

i'm more on the "if only Panther does well" they will bring more original minority characters to the big screen.

Making all three have to be successful to get more is apart of the problem.

If Ant-man fails, you think Marvel is going to put Dr. Strange on hold? Heck no.

I still want my RUNAWAYS movie Marvel!!!!

At the MCU announcement last fall, Kevin Feige said Runaways is a project that frequently comes up in TV and film discussions. I think it wil end up on ABC within the next few years.

 

[cronosred]

i'm more on the "if only Panther does well" they will bring more original minority characters to the big screen.

Making all three have to be successful to get more is apart of the problem.

If Ant-man fails, you think Marvel is going to put Dr. Strange on hold? Heck no.

I still want my RUNAWAYS movie Marvel!!!!

You're right, but I'm still hoping all do well because it would drive the point harder that people want variety.

 

[fantasticfan]

Here is a LEGO version of the teaser.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Show me the art for "The Hunger Games" NOVEL, where her character has been drawn, pretty much the same way for decades....

I proved the visual in favor of Alba, by showing MK issues where she looked very similar to Sue....so really that argument was squelched except for a negative troll. The look of the cast ended up not being an issue, except in the case of Thing and Doom, which I learned was very important to these fans.

So you would be fine with a very light skinned black woman with a blonde wig playing Sue, as long as she matched with an artist's rendition?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You're right, but I'm still hoping all do well because it would drive the point harder that people want variety.

Blade was like 1999. They know. They know.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I'm not trying to spite anyone, I'm just pointing out how people become hypocritical when situations are changed about. You can change any white character to be another race and even change their histories around but if it's a black character there is no way you can change things because their culture and identities are tied to their race.

But that only comes into question with characters whose country, identity and/or culture are tied to their race.

There are plenty of black characters who could be changed to another race without much alteration of their character or culture.

 

[pavlov]

I'm not trying to spite anyone, I'm just pointing out how people become hypocritical when situations are changed about. You can change any white character to be another race and even change their histories around but if it's a black character there is no way you can change things because their culture and identities are tied to their race.

It isn't as simple as that really. You cannot use the inverse as an analog. Minorities remain under-represented in hollywood and the constant whitewashing isn't helping either.