Microsoft E3 2009

[Isildur´s Heir]

I dunno. I really can't see this moving beyond gimmick like the EyeToy and Sixaxis where developers really don't use it.

At least with Sony's motion controller, you can essentially expect a more accurate Wii Remote and see it's applications in regular games like Resident Evil, Call of Duty, Fight Night, etc.

And of course Sony will probably copy this and Microsoft will probably copy Sony's actual motion controller. All while claiming that they're being original.

Maybe your right, but i see it exactly the other way around, being that the upcoming Sony motion control to be nothing more than a better Wiimote, and the Microsoft one to be the next step in motion control evolution, to do everything that the Wiimote does and much more.
Of course it all comes down to how it is used.
Both can be great, and both can be awful, but, at this moment (and let´s not forget that they are nothing more than rumors so far) i see a wider future for the Microsoft one.

Go to the 3DV System website, look at the videos there, and you see what i mean.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Another thing is that, if the Sony one does came out exactly how it is described, everyone and their mother will say they are bluntly imitating the Wii; no one can say that about Microsoft.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Maybe your right, but i see it exactly the other way around, being that the upcoming Sony motion control to be nothing more than a better Wiimote,

But the thing is that since Sony most likely will be ending up with an enhanced Wii Remote, it's pretty easy to figure out how it's going to be used because of the games the Wii has. And it would be easy for developers to use it in games. Resident Evil 5 would be a lot better with Wii-like controls. It would be used to punch in Fight Night Round 4. It can be used as a mouse in shooter games.

At least with this, you know what you're getting and having HD games with Wii like controls in a sensible manner would be kick ass.

and the Microsoft one to be the next step in motion control evolution, to do everything that the Wiimote does and much more.

But how can you use this as a Wii Remote? Something like this looks like it would need it's own software as opposed to just enhancing games. Something like this is certainly the next step in motion control evolution, but I think it's too soon. Developers aren't going to use this to the fullest extent in multiplatform games. Because it's too soon, I just can't see this going beyond gimmick-like status like the Eye Toy.

Of course it all comes down to how it is used.
Both can be great, and both can be awful, but, at this moment (and let´s not forget that they are nothing more than rumors so far) i see a wider future for the Microsoft one.

I think lack of support by third party developers is going to kill this one. The Xbox motion sensor sounds great, but I can't see this type of technology catching on this generation.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I hope there's not a future for either one of them gamewise. If you guys really think this is the future of gaming, guess you can go ahead and count me in the boat of the people stuck in the past

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

But the thing is that since Sony most likely will be ending up with an enhanced Wii Remote, it's pretty easy to figure out how it's going to be used because of the games the Wii has. And it would be easy for developers to use it in games. Resident Evil 5 would be a lot better with Wii-like controls. It would be used to punch in Fight Night Round 4. It can be used as a mouse in shooter games.
At least with this, you know what you're getting and having HD games with Wii like controls in a sensible manner would be kick ass.

I totally agree with you there, at first look, it´s easier to make games for the "Sonymote", because of it similarity with the Wiimote, but, in the end, we will only know for sure when it really happens.

But how can you use this as a Wii Remote? Something like this looks like it would need it's own software as opposed to just enhancing games. Something like this is certainly the next step in motion control evolution, but I think it's too soon. Developers aren't going to use this to the fullest extent in multiplatform games. Because it's too soon, I just can't see this going beyond gimmick-like status like the Eye Toy.

Have you seen the 3DV System site?
Their own product (the Zcam) is very similar to the Microsoft one, and, as you can see, it can very well work as a Wiimote...minus the Wiimote.
But it also can do so much, it makes the Wiimote be like a kids toy.
Just to give you an idea, the Wii and all camera made so far (eye toy, Microsoft´s Visio), all of those are 2D, the Zcam is the first 3D camera, which makes the camera see space.
For example, in a boxing game (and the video is there to show), with the movement of your body, you change perspective, just like you are there, in front of your opponent.
It´s the closer we have to Virtual Reality so far...

I think lack of support by third party developers is going to kill this one. The Xbox motion sensor sounds great, but I can't see this type of technology catching on this generation.

I can see it not being fully used this gen (unless used by Microsoft itself) but to have lack of support....i dunno.

I hope there's not a future for either one of them gamewise. If you guys really think this is the future of gaming, guess you can go ahead and count me in the boat of the people stuck in the past

Is not that i want that the be the future of gaming, but motion control is here to stay, like it or not.
So far, even with the Wii and all, i think that motion control as still a long way to go, and the majority of games on the Wii (if not all), could very well be play with a traditional control that you wouldn´t lose anything.
People say they don´t like it because they see nothing especial about it, bu, i can see, in the future, many great applications for it (just don´t ask me what)...let´s hope that is closer than we think.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I totally agree with you there, at first look, it´s easier to make games for the "Sonymote", because of it similarity with the Wiimote, but, in the end, we will only know for sure when it really happens.

True

Have you seen the 3DV System site?
Their own product (the Zcam) is very similar to the Microsoft one, and, as you can see, it can very well work as a Wiimote...minus the Wiimote.
But it also can do so much, it makes the Wiimote be like a kids toy.
Just to give you an idea, the Wii and all camera made so far (eye toy, Microsoft´s Visio), all of those are 2D, the Zcam is the first 3D camera, which makes the camera see space.
For example, in a boxing game (and the video is there to show), with the movement of your body, you change perspective, just like you are there, in front of your opponent.

Yeah, I checked it out, it would be awesome to play EA Sports games with such a system, but I still can't see how one can play traditional games that developers still prefer to make can be used here. And do you think that developers would want to put in the time and effort here to put in full motion controls. Wii like controls are one thing, but this is a whole other ball game.

It's why I think this technology is just too soon for it's time. This is something that the PlayStation 4 and Xbox whatever should introduce.

It´s the closer we have to Virtual Reality so far...

I can see it not being fully used this gen (unless used by Microsoft itself) but to have lack of support....i dunno.

I just can't see developers wanting to take in the time and effort to put in something so extensive for controls on a multiplatform game this generation. This is something that both Sony and Microsoft need to come out with at the same time in order for it to take off. You can't just have one system do it or else it's gonna fail IMO.

Is not that i want that the be the future of gaming, but motion control is here to stay, like it or not.
So far, even with the Wii and all, i think that motion control as still a long way to go, and the majority of games on the Wii (if not all), could very well be play with a traditional control that you wouldn´t lose anything.

People say they don´t like it because they see nothing especial about it, bu, i can see, in the future, many great applications for it (just don´t ask me what)...let´s hope that is closer than we think.

I think that this is a big deal. The landscape of gaming would be changed by such a technology. But it won't succeed this generation if Microsoft keeps it to itself or if Sony doesn't develop a similar counterpart.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

The thing is, you are thinking about multiplatform games not using it, but i can tell you right now that you totally right, no developer will use it for multiplatform games, that´s a given.
And i can´t imagine Microsoft wanting it any other way.
The games that will use it will be especific games made for it by 1st and 2nd parties, nothing more.
The 360 will not change from day to night just because it will release a motion controler camera, and neither will the PS3.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But pretty much every game is a multiplatform game. In order for a peripheral to succeed, you need support from third party developers. Hence why I'm really hoping that Sony is able to use this technology (doubtful considering that rumors are saying that Microsoft has bought 3DV) or develop a technology very similar to it.

The potential for this is amazing.

 

[Tron Bonne]

People say they don´t like it because they see nothing especial about it, bu, i can see, in the future, many great applications for it (just don´t ask me what)...let´s hope that is closer than we think.

That's got nothing to do with why I don't like it. I just damn don't like motion. Even well before the Wii when I played those arcade games that implemented some type of motion control I never cared for it. If anything it felt like a novelty item that quickly wore out it's welcome. I don't mind for a little here and there in a game, but I can honestly say I really don't want to play games completely designed around that technology.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

That's got nothing to do with why I don't like it. I just damn don't like motion. Even well before the Wii when I played those arcade games that implemented some type of motion control I never cared for it. If anything it felt like a novelty item that quickly wore out it's welcome. I don't mind for a little here and there in a game, but I can honestly say I really don't want to play games completely designed around that technology.

Sure, that´s your call and i respect it.
I´m going to be really honest and say i don´t like the idea either (but i never used it, never got my hands on a Wii), but, at the same time, i can picture that it can really work if well implanted.
Would you like to have virtual reality? Holodeck kind of gaming? Because that´s where it all begins, with motion control.
And, going with the rumors, Microsoft is briging exactly that to the table (the VR thing, not the Holodeck).

 

[Tron Bonne]

I actually don't care all that much about VR. I prefer traditional gaming to all of that stuff

 

[hippie_hunter]

I like traditional gaming as well, but I also enjoy being a part of it too. We can have both.

 

[Addendum]

There was a VR arcade in one of the malls here in town back in the 90s. It closed after a year.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I like traditional gaming as well, but I also enjoy being a part of it too. We can have both.

Well, if this stuff is 'the future' and it you really think it's going to 'change the landscape of gaming' it's only a matter of time before it becomes standard and it either breeds out traditional gaming or minimizes it to the point of a niche market.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Well, if this stuff is 'the future' and it you really think it's going to 'change the landscape of gaming' it's only a matter of time before it becomes standard and it either breeds out traditional gaming or minimizes it to the point of a niche market.

It´s not that black and white, people will have to adjust for that new type of gaming, people have to want it and suport it.
Things will not change in a week, it will take some years before it becames standard, if it, in fact, becames standard.
The way i see it, once again, going with the rumors, Microsoft will announce it and announce 2 games for it (because that´s the thing, games will be made for it, i don´t expect all games to be made with VR in mind, that will not happen).
Of those 2 games, one will be made by Rare, the other by Lionhead (Molyneux said he has a big announcement to make on E3, i´m starting to think it will be a AAA VR game)...and that´s it, all other games will be traditional.
The one thing that makes me excited for it is the fact that Microsoft is a very intelligent company, so, i don´t believe for a second that we will see a bunch of VR casual games, but rather, "normal" games that use it as something meaninful, that will give us a glimpse of what can be done in the future with that tecnology.

 

[Tron Bonne]

It´s not that black and white, people will have to adjust for that new type of gaming, people have to want it and suport it.
Things will not change in a week, it will take some years before it becames standard, if it, in fact, becames standard.
The way i see it, once again, going with the rumors, Microsoft will announce it and announce 2 games for it (because that´s the thing, games will be made for it, i don´t expect all games to be made with VR in mind, that will not happen).
Of those 2 games, one will be made by Rare, the other by Lionhead (Molyneux said he has a big announcement to make on E3, i´m starting to think it will be a AAA VR game)...and that´s it, all other games will be traditional.
The one thing that makes me excited for it is the fact that Microsoft is a very intelligent company, so, i don´t believe for a second that we will see a bunch of VR casual games, but rather, "normal" games that use it as something meaninful, that will give us a glimpse of what can be done in the future with that tecnology.

Where did I say it'll become standard in a week? Of course, it's going to take years to become standard if it is the future, but eventually it'll either turn traditional gaming to a niche market or it'll get thrown into the can. I doubt we'll see a full co-existence.

And I'm not talking about casual games. I'm taking all games, this is a technology I would not be interested in for ANY type of gaming.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Where did I say it'll become standard in a week? Of course, it's going to take years to become standard if it is the future, but eventually it'll either turn traditional gaming to a niche market or it'll get thrown into the can. I doubt we'll see a full co-existence.

I used the one week part to give an example that, like you say, it will take years.
What will happen in those years, only time will tell.

And I'm not talking about casual games. I'm taking all games, this is a technology I would not be interested in for ANY type of gaming.

Like i said before, i never used motion control before, so, when i do (if i do), i might hate it even more than you do, but, i´m willing to give it a try.
And you can´t really say you don´t want it until there is a big AAA game that really uses it in a meanigful way.
You might change your mind after that...

On a side note, again, if the rumors are right, if Microsoft does have a "Full Body control", from what i´ve gathered, it will pick sound as well as movement.
By the sound of it (no pun intented), it looks much more advance than the Wiimote and the "Sonymote" combined.

I can imagine the future of of that technology.
Next stop, 3D.
After that, 4D, meaning that you will actually feel whatever your touching (but you will need gloves for that).

 

[Tron Bonne]

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure I know what I want more than you. You can call me stuck in the past or pig-headed or old fashioned or what have you, but I have no interest in full motion video games. I don't want to jump and hop around when I play a game. I don't want to pretend I'm hitting something for real when I'm playing a game. I don't want to pretend I'm really shooting someone when I'm playing a game. When I play a game I want to sit down with a controller and play a game. I don't mind like like Madworld and No More Heroes were you just do a little slashing and shaking, but to have a game totally designed around this motion concept. Sorry, I'm not interested, I've tried motion, maybe not to this extent, but I do not understand why people what it.

 

[Soapy]

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure I know what I want more than you. You can call me stuck in the past or pig-headed or old fashioned or what have you, but I have no interest in full motion video games. I don't want to jump and hop around when I play a game. I don't want to pretend I'm hitting something for real when I'm playing a game. I don't want to pretend I'm really shooting someone when I'm playing a game. When I play a game I want to sit down with a controller and play a game. I don't mind like like Madworld and No More Heroes were you just do a little slashing and shaking, but to have a game totally designed around this motion concept. Sorry, I'm not interested, I've tried motion, maybe not to this extent, but I do not understand why people what it.

Bravo. Very nicely put.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on motion control as well.

Little things like steadying a shot in Killzone 2 or floating around in Flower are fine by me, but if this is the way the industry at large is heading, then it won't be long before we'll be forced to wear a mocap suit and do an interpretive dance just to perform simple actions that used to be done just by pressing a button. Of course that's an exaguration, but I feel like it's going to be a little too close to the truth before long.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I still don´t believe it will happen in every game.
I can imagine you aiming and taking cover when playing, for example, a FPS; but i can´t see you being able to do it with a platform game.
Like you two said, i don´t want to be jumping around just to play Mario.

And i feel you guys are overreacting.
If it goes like you say, the most simple game will be a full workout.
And the overweight and out of shape are out of luck, they need to find a new hobby.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I still don´t believe it will happen in every game.
I can imagine you aiming and taking cover when playing, for example, a FPS; but i can´t see you being able to do it with a platform game.
Like you two said, i don´t want to be jumping around just to play Mario.

And i feel you guys are overreacting.
If it goes like you say, the most simple game will be a full workout.
And the overweight and out of shape are out of luck, they need to find a new hobby.

See, I don't even really care much for the whole aiming/cover thing. I don't even really care much for that on the Wii. I just don't care for the whole motion or quasi-VR thing. If this is what MS reveals and this is how they want to push the future, I guess I am out of hobby, though I'm neither overweight or really all that out of shape.

 

[Addendum]

Nothing about motion control appeals to me. If that's the future of gaming, I'll just enjoy the games from the past that had no need for it.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

More rumors on the Full Body Motion controller...

Microsoft may finally be ready to make good on extended threats of a motion sensing controller for the Xbox 360 at this year's E3, with a rumored camera accessory reportedly in the works.

Last week, Engadget wrote that Microsoft's long-rumored motion controller pursuits were real and that its solution was coming in the form of a camera, with no handheld controller required. The purported features were impressive, boasting of full body motion control like kicking and punching as well as more micro-sized controls, including pinching and grabbing.
That motion detection camera may have already been publicly showcased, as Ars Technica believes it's 3DV's ZCam that Microsoft will be using.
The specs are certainly similar, as 3DV's ZCam feature set—fine finger gestures, full body tracking, gesture-controlled gaming—sound a hell of a lot like what Engadget's tip-based report highlighted. (A full rundown was done by Gizmodo when the product was first announced.)
That combined with reports from February that Microsoft was buying out 3DV make a hell of a lot of sense.
3DV's ZCam looks decidedly different from the hardware shown in Engadget's leaked photo. While that's hardly substantial evidence to dispute the allegation—the Xbox 360 version could have been improved upon or altered for cheaper manufacturing—it's worth noting.
Also interesting is the ZCam's capabilities to determine capture facial depth and generate a 3D image using a human face as an object. Perhaps that's how Xbox 360 Avatars could be generated in an "automatic way."

This same rumor was exactly i said in previous posts, in this same thread (am i smart or what? t: ).
And in the Ars Technica website, there is an article about it.
The highlights say that:
- It´s much better than the Wii
- 15 months ago, when it was first shown at CES 08, it was already working extemely well
- It looks very like the Microsoft Surface...without the Surface

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/05/microsofts-big-surprise-at-e3.ars

I´m starting to think that the Full Body is more than just a rumor, it´s a certainty

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, if this is MS's big ace in the hole. I see that conference being pretty useless to me. Hopefully we'll at least see a date (or confirmation that it's still around) of Alan Wake if this thing is center stage

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I believe that Alan Wake is still going to be released (at least, Remedy say it was never cancelled), the problem being that it was announced too early.
As for this year....maybe