Mission: Impossible - Fallout - Part 2

[Hunter Rider]

The cross cutting wasn't invented by Nolan, and to me tonally Nolan didn't really invent the more serious 70's throwback tone for genre films, that started with The Bourne Identity.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, but that stuff combined with the very blatant Zimmer-y score all kind of create that vibe.

I was really impressed with how McQuarrie was able to approach the movie as if he was a different director than the guy who made Rogue Nation. He's definitely got some major moviemaking mojo and I'm happy to see him getting his due.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I loved this movie. Really my biggest nitpick is [blackout]there is no way ALL that stuff in the climax could have been done in 15 mins. No way, no how. Time doesn't work that way! Bullcrap!!![/blackout]. But again, that is a nitpick. Otherwise, I loved this

 

[kguillou]

I loved this movie. Really my biggest nitpick is [blackout]there is no way ALL that stuff in the climax could have been done in 15 mins. No way, no how. Time doesn't work that way! Bullcrap!!![/blackout]. But again, that is a nitpick. Otherwise, I loved this

I was thinking that, too, there is literally no way that all would've happened. But, Heck, its a movie, right? Just gotta sit back and let your belief be suspended and go with the flow as long as the flow is good. t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The cross cutting wasn't invented by Nolan, and to me tonally Nolan didn't really invent the more serious 70's throwback tone for genre films, that started with The Bourne Identity.

The Bourne Identity isn't really like any of these things mentioned. It isn't even like the other Bourne movies. Now the Bourne Ultimatum, yeah. But again, that is post-Nolan's Batman. Nolan is probably the most influential filmmaker of this era, at least in terms of blockbusters. Its rather impressive when you think about it. The Bond movies are blatant Nolan rip offs.

 

[Mysteryman]

Christ, this movie is better the second time.

It’s pretty good the third time,too!

 

[TheVileOne]

I loved this movie. Really my biggest nitpick is [blackout]there is no way ALL that stuff in the climax could have been done in 15 mins. No way, no how. Time doesn't work that way! Bullcrap!!![/blackout]. But again, that is a nitpick. Otherwise, I loved this

I agree with the sentiment, but I think a lot of movie climaxes work like that. The whole ticking clock thing. It's narrative economy.

I mean every movie with a hacker or computer nerd has them say, "I'm in," after they've unlocked something. It's a cliche and tons of movies do it. I don't love it, but that's the reality.

 

[DACrowe]

I would say Bourne was very influential too, but the spy movie I see it most impacting is Quantum of Solace. It never really bled into the Mission: Impossible movies, and the whole "reboot" (back when that word wasn't synonymous with "cash grab"), back to basics "Hero Begins," old school epic approach to CR came directly from Batman Begins. And the more suspenseful and tense "reflection on modern anxieties about terrorism and War on Terror meets massive set-pieces" of TDK pretty much inspired exactly how Sam Mendes approached Skyfall and Spectre, and he wouldn't deny it. Not that I mind, as I think Skyfall might be the best spy movie of the decade... although not necessarily the most entertaining one.

I actually think Fallout is more clever about it. The M:I films have always emphasized in-camera stunts, it wasn't until after it was over I realized McQuarrie was quite inspired by Nolan's sense of tight, unrelenting pacing to give the set-pieces a real extra kick, as well as obviously IMAX and the crystal clear photography of the most ludicrous aspects (and yes, the armored car chase, in retrospect). In some ways, Fallout might be the most remarkable because they made it, its own, whereas when the Bond movies did it, it was blatant.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The Bourne Identity isn't really like any of these things mentioned. It isn't even like the other Bourne movies. Now the Bourne Ultimatum, yeah. But again, that is post-Nolan's Batman. Nolan is probably the most influential filmmaker of this era, at least in terms of blockbusters. Its rather impressive when you think about it. The Bond movies are blatant Nolan rip offs.

The Bourne Identity was the first film in the new millenium to usher in taking the spy genre more seriously like in the 70's and removing the glossier style with huge explosions and a sense of humour, Nolan and Greengrass then took that and added in fight scenes where you couldn't make anything out, I'm really glad that fad has passed. Nolan's other big influence is self admitted, he loves Bay and the cross cut finales are George Lucas.

 

[Mysteryman]

Oops,it’s Ghost Protocol that’s on now.
Sorry about that.
Rogue Nation is on tonight at 8Pm tonight on FXX.
They will show it again tomorrow at 5pm.
Ghost Protocol will be rebroadcast on FXX tomorrow at 2pm.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Bourne Identity was the first film in the new millenium to usher in taking the spy genre more seriously like in the 70's and removing the glossier style with huge explosions and a sense of humour, Nolan and Greengrass then took that and added in fight scenes where you couldn't make anything out, I'm really glad that fad has passed. Nolan's other big influence is self admitted, he loves Bay and the cross cut finales are George Lucas.

I am not saying Nolan invented any of this Hunter. But that doesn't mean his films aren't clearly influencing others, especially when it comes to major franchises. They even tried to Nolan Superman and Spider-Man. You really think The Bourne Identity has had more influence on cinema and entertainment as a whole the last decade then Nolan?

 

[Mysteryman]

I am not saying Nolan invented any of this Hunter. But that doesn't mean his films aren't clearly influencing others, especially when it comes to major franchises. They even tried to Nolan Superman and Spider-Man. You really think The Bourne Identity has had more influence on cinema and entertainment as a whole the last decade then Nolan?

I think Hunter was talking specifically about the the Bourne Identity's influence on the spy genre.

 

[DACrowe]

The Bourne Identity was the first film in the new millenium to usher in taking the spy genre more seriously like in the 70's and removing the glossier style with huge explosions and a sense of humour, Nolan and Greengrass then took that and added in fight scenes where you couldn't make anything out, I'm really glad that fad has passed. Nolan's other big influence is self admitted, he loves Bay and the cross cut finales are George Lucas.

I mean, the Bourne films have their place, and you can see their influence on Quantum of Solace, and their very existence likely prompting Eon to want to go "back to basics" with Bond, or WB signing off on Nolan's take. But stylistically, Nolan brought a real flavor to cinema that is still being used, I'd argue more than Bourne.

You mention the shaky cam fight scenes, but that was only really used in Batman Begins. In the sequels and Inception, Nolan got away from that, favoring wide shots where you can see everything and the extravagant set-pieces being mostly done in camera clearly was an influence on Skyfall, Spectre and Fallout. You don't need much more proof than Fallout using a similar scene (armored car chase) and IMAX cinematography at the end. Giant aerial stunts on IMAX is a Nolan touch from TDK and TDKR specifically, and intriguingly this approach has proven to be more evergreen in its appeal to audiences than Avatar's 3D, which was all the rage a year later but has now faded as a selling point for audiences.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Hunter was talking specifically about the the Bourne Identity's influence on the spy genre.

Even in that realm, and Nolan hasn't made a spy movie, these action movies in general are looking more towards Nolan then anything else. That Nolan has influenced the spy genre without actually making a spy movie is rather telling imo. Especially when you see it in the two major franchises.

 

[DACrowe]

I'll add one more thing to back you up, Darth. I think filmmakers like McQuarrie, Mendes, and even James Mangold are old school movie lovers in the way Nolan is. They have an appreciation for film history and that "tactile" quality Nolan chases. I think Nolan is the most visible counter to the "modern way" of doing things. By that I mean, even his non superhero big budget efforts (Inception, Interstellar, and Dunkirk) all show an appreciation for movie history and classical storytelling, even as they're all trying to deconstruct it and reinvent it in Nolan's patented pretzel-shaped plotting. He is the most marked filmmaker in the 21st century who offers an alternative to what Disney has built with the MCU and now Star Wars (which in turn the DCEU, Transformers, the Monsterverse, the already dead Dark-Verse, Venom, etc. chase).

So I think the filmmakers who most agree with Nolan and who make big budget genre fare--again Mendes, McQuarrie, and in his own way Mangold--kind of admire that and take from Nolan too, although Mangold the least amount.

I admit this is a narrow way of viewing it, and as such doesn't really include what Bourne, and specifically Greengrass, did, but as important as what Greengrass did was, it's kind of stayed confined to the 2000s (although the Russos borrowed from it a little bit for TWS, ironically enough). So looking more in the last 10 years, you can see Nolan's more pronounced influence.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I am not saying Nolan invented any of this Hunter. But that doesn't mean his films aren't clearly influencing others, especially when it comes to major franchises. They even tried to Nolan Superman and Spider-Man. You really think The Bourne Identity has had more influence on cinema and entertainment as a whole the last decade then Nolan?

I wasn't saying that, I was tracing the roots of where this shift in how genre films were approached, started, what was the first one to take it into this more "realisitc" style, and that was the Bourne Identity and you could also look at Heat and Collateral, Batman Begins and the following Bourne were just bigger after audiences had gotten a taste and decided they liked it. I think Nolan makes excellent films even if the last couple were not my cup of tea, but his influence is just a recycling of his influences rather than him doing anything ground breaking. He did have a very specific influence on comic book movies and TV though with his appraoch to Batman, in some cases that was very effective but unfortunately some applied a "one style fits all" mentality and tried to use his style on Superman and Spider-Man which was not a fit with either character IMO.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I mean, the Bourne films have their place, and you can see their influence on Quantum of Solace, and their very existence likely prompting Eon to want to go "back to basics" with Bond, or WB signing off on Nolan's take. But stylistically, Nolan brought a real flavor to cinema that is still being used, I'd argue more than Bourne.

You mention the shaky cam fight scenes, but that was only really used in Batman Begins. In the sequels and Inception, Nolan got away from that, favoring wide shots where you can see everything and the extravagant set-pieces being mostly done in camera clearly was an influence on Skyfall, Spectre and Fallout. You don't need much more proof than Fallout using a similar scene (armored car chase) and IMAX cinematography at the end. Giant aerial stunts on IMAX is a Nolan touch from TDK and TDKR specifically, and intriguingly this approach has proven to be more evergreen in its appeal to audiences than Avatar's 3D, which was all the rage a year later but has now faded as a selling point for audiences.

Are you talking specifically how Nolan's movies are shot and the cinematography? To me those are just his influences filtered back through from Mann to Lucas to Bay to Scott, more specifically Blade Runner.

The fight scenes in TDK were fast cut as well, truth is though Nolan has yet to master fight scenes, as talented technically as he is. Nolan's use of IMAX opened up the tech to other directors yes, but shooting big scale set pieces in camera is hardly unique to him, that was how it was done before CGI became the go to tool or in some cases crutch, of directors come the late 90's. Was Fallout's armored truck scene specifically influenced by the TDK scene? that's hard to say as it's hardly the only action sequence to feature jacking a truck, and McQ added a lot of extra stuff into it and then paired it with a car/bike chase that was very clearly a homage to the French Connection.

 

[terry78]

Now this is a classic Hype debate.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I've never really agreed with people who think Batman Begins was such a big influence on Casino Royale. Apart from the fact that both were released only like a year apart and Batman Begins wasn't that big of a hit anyway, aesthetically they're not even similar. CR has more in common with TDK and TDKR than with Batman Begins.

As far as Fallout goes, I've only seen the film once and didn't notice any big Nolan influence aside from that scene with TDKR-esque music.

 

[DACrowe]

Are you talking specifically how Nolan's movies are shot and the cinematography? To me those are just his influences filtered back through from Mann to Lucas to Bay to Scott, more specifically Blade Runner.

The fight scenes in TDK were fast cut as well, truth is though Nolan has yet to master fight scenes, as talented technically as he is. Nolan's use of IMAX opened up the tech to other directors yes, but shooting big scale set pieces in camera is hardly unique to him, that was how it was done before CGI became the go to tool or in some cases crutch, of directors come the late 90's. Was Fallout's armored truck scene specifically influenced by the TDK scene? that's hard to say as it's hardly the only action sequence to feature jacking a truck, and McQ added a lot of extra stuff into it and then paired it with a car/bike chase that was very clearly a homage to the French Connection.

Really The French Connection? I haven't seen that in a moon's age but I don't recall an elevated train in Fallout.

Look I'm not saying Nolan invented anything, however he is a clear influence on certain blockbuster filmmakers (and many more not, but we're specifically talking at the moment). You're right about in-camera action. Hell, the Bond movies were famous for the dazzling stunts before Indiana Jones, Batman, Bourne or Mission: Impossible were movie franchises.

Still, influences are evident, especially in the Mendes Bond movies (which he never denies Nolan being a major inspiration on Skyfall) and also Fallout. I would say that seeing not just a car chase but an armored van being knocked into the river is more than just a coincidence. And the use of IMAX photography for aerial action scenes was pioneered by Nolan in Rises. So yes, I'd say his influences are in McQ's movie, but less overtly so than Mendes, which I suppose is a credit to McQ.

But yes, one of the reason Nolan stands out is his passion for old school filmmaking, which is something he has in common with McQ (who referenced a lot of Hitchcock and Curtiz in Rogue Nation) and Mangold (obviously George Stevens' Shane and John Wayne's The Cowboys in Logan).

P.S. You're right, McQ does fistfight scenes way better than Nolan.

 

[Mysteryman]

Moviefan1 “did you see Mission Impossible:Fallout”?
Moviefan 2
“Sure did, Nolans a GENIUS!”

 

[DarthSkywalker]

https://variety.com/2018/film/in-contention/dark-knight-changed-movies-christopher-nolan-1202874041/

Nolan himself would wait another nine years before being nominated by the Academy’s directors branch, which also passed him over in 2010 for “Inception.” That recognition finally came last year, for “Dunkirk,” after his work in the space had definitively impacted large-scale filmmaking.

And that, by the way, is undeniable. Look at the recent aesthetic directions of the James Bond, “Mission: Impossible,” and “Planet of the Apes” franchises. And Imax photography in narrative films, an experiment when Nolan dabbled in it for a handful of scenes, is now much more widely utilized. The echoes of “The Dark Knight” can be found in the very fabric of the modern blockbuster landscape.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Really The French Connection? I haven't seen that in a moon's age but I don't recall an elevated train in Fallout.

Ethan drives the BMW under a bridge structure very similar to the elevated train platform, while Ilsa is on the bike above him rather than in a train, but the framing of the sequence couldn't be a much clearer homage.

Look I'm not saying Nolan invented anything, however he is a clear influence on certain blockbuster filmmakers (and many more not, but we're specifically talking at the moment). You're right about in-camera action. Hell, the Bond movies were famous for the dazzling stunts before Indiana Jones, Batman, Bourne or Mission: Impossible were movie franchises.

Still, influences are evident, especially in the Mendes Bond movies (which he never denies Nolan being a major inspiration on Skyfall) and also Fallout. I would say that seeing not just a car chase but an armored van being knocked into the river is more than just a coincidence. And the use of IMAX photography for aerial action scenes was pioneered by Nolan in Rises. So yes, I'd say his influences are in McQ's movie, but less overtly so than Mendes, which I suppose is a credit to McQ.

He pioneered the use of IMAX without doubt, but that was just a tool, more than an actual influence, he showed it can work and others started to use it. As far as his influence on Skyfall, again are we just talking technically with the beginning and end sequences? If so and Mendes took that from Nolan then ok, but he could have looked further back and saw it. It's been a while since I watched TDK but I don't remember the armored truck ending up in the water, I really didn't see much of a similarity with the sequences, both brilliant, but TDK's chase had a lot more gags where as Fallout's was pretty much about the raw speed driving of Ethan and putting the audience right in there with that camera mount rig McQ uses due to Cruise doing all his own riding/driving/flying.

But yes, one of the reason Nolan stands out is his passion for old school filmmaking, which is something he has in common with McQ (who referenced a lot of Hitchcock and Curtiz in Rogue Nation) and Mangold (obviously George Stevens' Shane and John Wayne's The Cowboys in Logan).

P.S. You're right, McQ does fistfight scenes way better than Nolan.

True, and I would agree that the success of Nolan's Batman movies and then Inception has put the in camera big scale spectacle back in the game and other directors are now following suit, however this discussion is kind of different to the initial point I thought was being made, we are talking the technical side of movie making now, where as I originally thought we were talking about the tonal approach to genre movies, which was why I mentioned the Bourne Identity.


Lol. I wonder if it was just the batsuit hindering Nolan, I know he did a bit better with the fight scene in Inception even though it was a gimmick fight.

 

[Hunter Rider]

https://variety.com/2018/film/in-contention/dark-knight-changed-movies-christopher-nolan-1202874041/

It's a puff piece, not factual, again he pioneered IMAX, but now he's getting credit for the Apes movies as well? He didn't invent darker, more realisitc films, this is so weird lol. It also references TDK not BB, which came after Greengrass' first and maybe even second Bourne.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's a puff piece, not factual, again he pioneered IMAX, but now he's getting credit for the Apes movies as well? He didn't invent darker, more realisitc films, this is so weird lol. It also references TDK not BB, which came after Greengrass' first and maybe even second Bourne.

Why do you keep going back to the idea that he needed to invent things for him to be the big, obvious influence on the direction a lot of Hollywood blockbusters have gone? Who is talking about Greengrass' next film? What movies did Greengrass create that had the effect that Begins, TDK or Inception have had? I say this, rather loving Greengrass' films.

It's like saying, there was sci-fi before Star Wars. Well of course there was. But that didn't mean Star Wars didn't influence all of cinema when it came out. There were movies like Pulp Fiction before Pulp Fiction. But that does not change the impact it had. Nolan is the guy who can make movies like Inception, Interstellar and Dunkirk and end up on the right side of 500m at the box office.

Also I wouldn't boil it down to the films being darker and realistic. But he definitely grew up the material, though not in the ugh way someone like Snyder would say. He made looking at material like Planet of the Apes or Mission: Impossible as being able to be more a thing.