Mission: Impossible - Fallout - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

The drop estimate is under 43 percent, which is good for a blockbuster type of film. Fallout really picked a good time of year to come out after all the other big summer releases.

Good? That is rather fantastic.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Bourne Ultimatum and The Bourne Supremacy.

They have had the impact of Begins, TDK and Inception? Really?

See, I found the action MUCH harder to make out in Legacy. It's like Gilroy was imitating Greengrass poorly, so it was all just a cobbled mess. That last chase is one of the worst chases I've seen in a modern blockbuster. *shrug* Plus I just hated how wordy all the dialogue became. It made me really appreciate how much Greengrass and Liman clearly edited Gilroy down. The characters were suddenly much more long-winded, to the point of being dull. It also had no structure. First time I saw it, I went to the bathroom after that chase ended, assuming we were just entering the 3rd act, and when I came back, the credits were rolling. I was like, "wait, seriously? That's IT?"

Greengrass' action always works for me. He's pretty much the only person I trust with excessive shaky cam, lol.

I don't know how he does it, but he pulls it off.

An I completely agree on Gilroy and Legacy.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I have yet to see Bourne Legacy. I saw the other 4 though. Ultimatum was my favorite. One of these days I will get around to Legacy, but it just looked meh to me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have yet to see Bourne Legacy. I saw the other 4 though. Ultimatum was my favorite. One of these days I will get around to Legacy, but it just looked meh to me.

As a Weisz fan, I had to go see it. It really does feel like a boring, wordy, poor imitation of a film, that just ends. I think FC summed it up rather perfectly.

 

[Hunter Rider]

See, I found the action MUCH harder to make out in Legacy. It's like Gilroy was imitating Greengrass poorly, so it was all just a cobbled mess. That last chase is one of the worst chases I've seen in a modern blockbuster. *shrug* Plus I just hated how wordy all the dialogue became. It made me really appreciate how much Greengrass and Liman clearly edited Gilroy down. The characters were suddenly much more long-winded, to the point of being dull. It also had no structure. First time I saw it, I went to the bathroom after that chase ended, assuming we were just entering the 3rd act, and when I came back, the credits were rolling. I was like, "wait, seriously? That's IT?" Renner and Weisz's characters were pretty terrible too, imo. Wow...I'm realizing as I type this that I actually hate that movie even more than I thought, lol.

Greengrass' action always works for me. He's pretty much the only person I trust with the shaky cam approach. I never lose my sense of spatial geography in his action scenes, which is key to a good action sequence for me.

I haven't seen it since the one time I watched it lol, so I can't comment on the bike sequence, but the part at the beginning on the mountain, I thought was really good and I now realize that was Oscar Isaac lol. As far as the dialogue, I can't say I was bored but then Greengrass favours the "smell the fart" 70's approach to dialogue, where it's minimalisitic and at times we have to guess what characters are thinking. Renner is a supporting actor IMO, not an action lead but I thought Weisz was fine and added a little but of heart that had been missing since Marie was killed off in the worst creative call of the franchise IMO.


I agree with you on the importance of spatial geography in action sequences or more precisely chase sequences, otherwise they are just a bunch of shots slapped together, but with 3 million edits I feel so nauseous that I lose track anyway lol, was it the 3rd film that had the rooftop chase? When I saw it at the cinema I actually closed my eyes as I started to feel queasy with all the rapid cuts To this day I still think Identity is the best Bourne movie with the best action, the best car chase and the most humanity.

 

[Spider-Fan]

As a Weisz fan, I had to go see it. It really does feel like a boring, wordy, poor imitation of a film, that just ends. I think FC summed it up rather perfectly.

FC's description came across to me in the trailers, LOL! So it was a movie that was low on my theater radar and I just kind of missed. I have the movie in a Bourne box set I have (though I still don't own Jason Bourne), so I can watch it any day. But then I decide to just watch other stuff

 

[Hunter Rider]

As a Weisz fan, I had to go see it. It really does feel like a boring, wordy, poor imitation of a film, that just ends. I think FC summed it up rather perfectly.

The complaints about Gilroy being wordy, did you ever see Michael Clayton?

 

[Mysteryman]

I have yet to see Bourne Legacy. I saw the other 4 though. Ultimatum was my favorite. One of these days I will get around to Legacy, but it just looked meh to me.

Legacy really doesn't connect to the others at all.

 

[flickchick85]

I haven't seen it since the one time I watched it lol, so I can't comment on the bike sequence, but the part at the beginning on the mountain, I thought was really good and I now realize that was Oscar Isaac lol. As far as the dialogue, I can't say I was bored but then Greengrass favours the "smell the fart" 70's approach to dialogue, where it's minimalisitic and at times we have to guess what characters are thinking. Renner is a supporting actor IMO, not an action lead but I thought Weisz was fine and added a little but of heart that had been missing since Marie was killed off in the worst creative call of the franchise IMO.


I agree with you on the importance of spacial geography in action sequences or more precisely chase sequences, otherwise they are just a bunch of shots slapped together, but with 3 million edits I feel so nauseous that I lose track anyway lol, was it the 3rd film that had the rooftop chase? When I saw it at the cinema I actually closed my eyes as I started to feel queasy with all the rapid cuts To this day I still think Identity is the best Bourne movie with the best action, the best car chase and the most humanity.

It's crazy to me that Legacy didn't make you sick then, because that's literally the first movie to ever make me nauseous due to camerawork, lol!

And I think I discovered the other key to our wildly different takes: I HATED Marie and was thrilled when she died! It's like the only time I've ever given my whole-hearted approval to fridging.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The complaints about Gilroy being wordy, did you ever see Michael Clayton?

I own Michael Clayton on blu ray actually. t:

 

[Spider-Fan]

I really enjoyed Michael Clayton.

 

[flickchick85]

The complaints about Gilroy being wordy, did you ever see Michael Clayton?

Yeah I didn't love it, but I liked it a hell of a lot better than Legacy. I think because that was supposed to be a movie about people talking rather than action. Tilda Swinton's character made it, though. I would've hated it were it not for her.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's crazy to me that Legacy didn't make you sick then, because that's literally the first movie to ever make me nauseous due to camerawork, lol!

And I think I discovered the other key to our wildly different takes: I HATED Marie and was thrilled when she died! It's like the only time I've ever given my whole-hearted approval to fridging.

This is the meanest thing FC has ever said.

I missed Marie, but I also felt her death did a really good job of propelling the narrative forward. The momentum of Supremacy and Ultimatum is so good. They feel shorter then their runtimes would indicate. Also another reason why Jason Bourne suffered quite a bit imo.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It's crazy to me that Legacy didn't make you sick then, because that's literally the first movie to ever make me nauseous due to camerawork, lol!

And I think I discovered the other key to our wildly different takes: I HATED Marie and was thrilled when she died! It's like the only time I've ever given my whole-hearted approval to fridging.

Well camerawork has never effected me like rapid cuts, I guess we have different triggers in this regard, but I will say I'm glad his fight editing fad died off quickly, the last 3 Missions, the 2 John Wick movies and Fury Road are all more my taste in action.


I don't know what to say lol, I liked her and at least she brought some warmth, I don't think Damon has the charisma of Craig to carry off such a stoic character and still be interesting.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I own Michael Clayton on blu ray actually. t:

That'll look nice lol, I thought it was pretty good movie.

Yeah I didn't love it, but I liked it a hell of a lot better than Legacy. I think because that was supposed to be a movie about people talking rather than action. Tilda Swinton's character made it, though. I would've hated it were it not for her.

I thought the film was an interesting look at corporate espionage and one of Clooney's best performances with the smuiggery stripped away, and I agree Tilda Swinton was good, as was Tom Wilkinson.

 

[flickchick85]

I don't know what to say lol, I liked her and at least she brought some warmth, I don't think Damon has the charisma of Craig to carry off such a stoic character and still be interesting.

Damon won me over in the first one with his delivery of "How could I forget you? You're the only person I know!" There was always this underlying everyman quality to Bourne, underneath the stoic badass facade, that worked for me.

Also, I don't think there's one right way to do action. I love jump cuts and Greengrass's minimalist "cut to the chase" approach, probably because I'm an editor, and I love when editing is used to create energy/action. It takes real skill to do that well. And to me those movies had an energy very rarely replicated (but sadly, often imitated). But I also like the old school, "pull the camera back and just let us see the stunts" approach of M:I and John Wick, obviously. I think Fury Road's a bit of both worlds, in terms of style. The editing was flashy and energetic as hell, but Miller also loved those glorious steady wide shots.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Damon won me over in the first one with his delivery of "How could I forget you? You're the only person I know!" There was always this underlying everyman quality to Bourne, underneath the stoic badass facade, that worked for me.

Also, I don't think there's one right way to do action. I love jump cuts and Greengrass's minimalist "cut to the chase" approach, probably because I'm an editor, and I love when editing is used to create energy/action. It takes real skill to do that well. And to me those movies had an energy very rarely replicated (but sadly, often imitated). But I also like the old school, "pull the camera back and just let us see the stunts" approach of M:I and John Wick, obviously. I think Fury Road's a bit of both worlds, in terms of style. The editing was flashy and energetic as hell, but Miller also loved those glorious steady wide shots.

Fair enough, my Dad would agree with you, he loves the first 3 Bourne movies, I dunno, they are fine and so is Damon, I've just never had the hype or love for him or them to any great extent.

I think editing is massively important to action sequences, to some degree it's the key component, the editor fits the jigsaw pieces together, obviously great pieces are needed but the tempo, cohesion and energy of the scene requires skill in the editing room, but my preference remains with those that favour a larger amount of frames per cut, as to me I think the ultra fast cutting is often used to mimmick energy if the great shots aren't there and often becomes disorientating. I will say that while I don't like the style Greengrass did it better than anyone else and I can appreciate his craft when you see a movie like QoS botch the technique, it's like all of the directors and editors that tried and failed to copy John Woo's artful use of slow mo in his glorious bullet ballets. Fury Road didn't so much use the fast cuts to me, as it used some odd speeding up of frames in certain parts.

 

[flickchick85]

Fury Road didn't so much use the fast cuts to me, as it used some odd speeding up of frames in certain parts.

Yeah I kind of equate that to extreme jump cutting, since it's essentially removing frames to make things appear faster/more jittery.

 

[DACrowe]

.........Sneaky!


Fair enough, I found Interstellar fairly boring in truth and Dunkirk took me multiple breaks to get through it, it just did nothing for me at all, but if it got some critical monkey off his back and he returns to the type of films he was making prior, then that's fine.


McQ switched it up neatly between Rogue Nation and Fallout, quite uniquely actually as most directors can't shake their aesthetic, so I am sure he'll roll out something fresh with Mission 7, and I certainly hope he does come back as I want that trilogy within the larger franchise.

Well I really love Interstellar, but I know it has its flaws. That said, I revisited it a few months ago for the first time in four years and it blew me away all over again in terms of ambition and craft (and music). Dunkirk, I respect a lot and think is his most polished film since Inception. However, if you didn't see it in theaters, it probably won't work. In cinemas, you're trapped on that beach with them, and making a beach or ocean feel claustrophobic is quite the magic trick. But on a TV with distractions... the illusion is shattered.

And yeah, I think McQ needs and definitely will come back. If he hadn't left threads dangling, I'd worry. But I suspect he's got one more in him, and I think he likes the idea of making M:I as much his franchise as it is Tom Cruise's. I can't see him doing a fourth, and Cruise will, but the McQuarrie years can be looked back at as "Peak Mission: Impossible."

And yes, I imagine he'll change it up again, but I hope he doesn't go Greengrass on it. He has too much of a perfect eye for staging action to go that route.

 

[DACrowe]

greengrass really did let the hubris get to him by letting go of gilroy, jason bourne was cliche ridden and mediocre at best. bourne legacy was better than it in pretty much every way

Gilroy's Legacy is meh, but he did great work on Michael Clayton and is apparently the reason the second half of Rogue One is so good, which I'm inclined to believe since the first half is a bit of a mess (still my favorite Disney Star Wars though!).

Greengrass' movies from non-Gilroy scripts tend to be very dry and cold to me, including Jason Bourne. When he was working from Gilroy, they can be quite compelling. Although, if I'm being honest, the man shakes the camera too much. The Bourne Ultimatum was good it didn't matter, but I found The Bourne Supremacy needlessly confusing in how it was shot and edited.

 

[flickchick85]

Gilroy's Legacy is meh, but he did great work on Michael Clayton and is apparently the reason the second half of Rogue One is so good, which I'm inclined to believe since the first half is a bit of a mess (still my favorite Disney Star Wars though!).

Well, bringing it back to topic I guess, Chris McQuarrie also did an uncredited pass on that one, lol.

 

[Luigi]

Glad that it maintained the franchise tradition of being #1 at the box office two weeks in a row.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gilroy's Legacy is meh, but he did great work on Michael Clayton and is apparently the reason the second half of Rogue One is so good, which I'm inclined to believe since the first half is a bit of a mess (still my favorite Disney Star Wars though!).

Greengrass' movies from non-Gilroy scripts tend to be very dry and cold to me, including Jason Bourne. When he was working from Gilroy, they can be quite compelling. Although, if I'm being honest, the man shakes the camera too much. The Bourne Ultimatum was good it didn't matter, but I found The Bourne Supremacy needlessly confusing in how it was shot and edited.

That is an interesting way of putting it.

 

[DACrowe]

Okay. How about better than the rest of the Disney Star Wars movies?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Okay. How about better than the rest of the Disney Star Wars movies?

I find that even more interesting. t: