Mutant-phobia: a Savage Hypocrisy

[roach]

I apologize for trying to have some fun

 

[deemar325]

Sup Roach.

 

[roach]

Sup Roach.

Sup man... havent been on in a while as I am now on two a day PTs. I got picked for the Navy's new Riverine unit and that includes and all expense paid trip to the big brouhaha in the desert

 

[Chris Wallace]

The world is a better place than it was an hour ago.



Exactly. This isn't a spam thread.

I personally think it's very important to explore the truths and misconceptions regarding bigotry, even if the starting example is fictional, because those principles apply to many important issues in the world.

Considering the kind of scientific resources the human race has at this point and the possibilities being debated (cloning; enhancing humans to heal faster, be stronger and live longer, etc.), people should understand the difference between valid fears about potential enemies/predators and the usual, petty, tribalistic rivalries that occur between groups of people on every conceivable level (light skinned people vs. dark skinned people; natives vs. immigrants; sports team A vs. sports team B; Superman fans vs. Spider-Man fans; etc.).

In the episode of the X-Men animated series entitled 'One Man's Worth,' where in an alternate reality where mutant peace advocate Charles Xavier was killed off in the 50's or 60's and Storm and Wolverine were married and embroiled in a horrible race war, Storm said something that summed up the difference between regular tribalistic hatred and a fear of a more powerful race. Storm and Wolverine were brought back in time to the 50's or 60's by Bishop and Shard to stop Xavier's assassination, and while they were discussing their plan in a diner, the manager made a hateful remark about Bishop and Storm, who are both dark skinned. Storm said, "Skin-color prejudice? That's so pathetic, it's almost quaint." That's exactly how I feel about it.

Unfortunately, because exploitation and persecution of certain groups of people throughout history went uncheck for so long, actual cultural and socio-economic differences do exist between groups of people who were distinguished by irrelevant categorizations ("white" vs. "black", American vs. immigrant, etc.). I don't actually know what is or isn't true about which "races" (the concepts for which this term is used are completely imaginary) or "ethnicities" commit whatever rates of various crimes, or treat various groups ("races," genders, etc.) certain ways at whatever rates, regardless of what I've learned in criminology classes. One of the first things I've learned in my major is that those kinds of statistics are practically meaningless, overall. I have come to the conclusion that it is not, strictly speaking, evil or necessarily stupid to instinctively fear a person who looks/dresses/acts like a stereotype that is related to a "race," ethnicity, nationality, etc., if you grew up in a place where such stereotypes are discussed often and records of events are distorted in various ways. What is stupid is to take one basically irrelevant trait, such as skin color, and make an actual judgement based on that alone. What is evil is to treat someone in a hostile, hateful or otherwise harmful manner based on anything other than their known behavior. Fear and hatred aren't the same thing, just like fearlessness and courage aren't the same thing. Fear and hatred fear each other, but merely thinking about stereotypes and behaving purely defensively is not wrong per se, as much of this is fed into many people's minds in one way or another and people are hardwired to follow heuristic thought processes (mental shortcuts that allow you to multitask rather than spend a lot of time considering every stilumus that you perceive).

This isn't me defending racism, because I believe actual racism in practice is dispicable; this is me saying that people should think carefully after receiving real facts before using that word, along with sexism and every other "ism" that means bigotry or other tribalistic/supremecist behavior.
Also, bigotry is not the same as ignorance, as ignorance is merely the lack of knowledge or awareness, which is a negative value, and to argue with validity that someone is bigoted, the person being judged as such would have to take a positive action of some kind, whether proactive or reactive. Ignorance is the breeding ground upon which tribalistic prejudice and hatred thrives, but it is not the prejudice or hatred itself.

To put it another way: to one extent or another, prejudice exists in everyone's mind. We're taught-largely by society-to see differences between individual groups. What you do with that is up to you.
So the world's a better place now that I understand you? That's actually funny. In a way it goes right back to what we're talking about. I look forward to the next time we disagree.

 

[Abaddon]

You mean like labrats?

Sure why not.

 

[deemar325]

Sup man... havent been on in a while as I am now on two a day PTs. I got picked for the Navy's new Riverine unit and that includes and all expense paid trip to the big brouhaha in the desert

Damn man that sucks two a day!?

Gotta lay off the snacks homey.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Sure why not.

Apart from it being illegal & inhumane? I don't think it'd work.
Only someone like Wolverine or Angel, who has a healing factor & hence, a stronger immunity system would be any use, & I think it was long ago proven that Wolverine's healing factor can't truly be duplicated, and Angel's only affects those who share his bloodtype.

 

[Abaddon]

Apart from it being illegal & inhumane? I don't think it'd work.
Only someone like Wolverine or Angel, who has a healing factor & hence, a stronger immunity system would be any use, & I think it was long ago proven that Wolverine's healing factor can't truly be duplicated, and Angel's only affects those who share his bloodtype.

Well if Wolverine was given a disease his body would react and fight it off,and scientist would just have to take his antibodies or something to form a cure.


Really my original statement came under the condition that something like that would be voluntary,but I'm not all that opposed to sacrificing the rights of a few so that they may serve a greater purpose.

 

[Not Jake]

the Jews killed thier king, and set free a murder. You want to know why anti-semitism exists read the new testament. some people are over the fact that the jews ordered the execution of our savior some are not. not all christians hate jews, but there is the reason why some do.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well if Wolverine was given a disease his body would react and fight it off,and scientist would just have to take his antibodies or something to form a cure.


Really my original statement came under the condition that something like that would be voluntary,but I'm not all that opposed to sacrificing the rights of a few so that they may serve a greater purpose.

Like that time all those black men were purposely given syphillis for research purposes?

 

[thor87]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

well, what can i say, i guess some people dont want to recognize it but it is an issue for some people. if the reason i presented is so hysterical would you please inform us as to the other reason as to why people have enslaved, murdered and hated Jews for thousands of years.

 

[roach]

Damn man that sucks two a day!?

Gotta lay off the snacks homey.

Yeah...and since the Marines are teaching Riverine school that means I have to get ready as if Im going to Marine Infantry school

 

[Abaddon]

Like that time all those black men were purposely given syphillis for research purposes?

eh?Never heard about that.

 

[roach]

eh?Never heard about that.

happened during WW2

 

[Abaddon]

happened during WW2

So a comparison is being made to Nazi experiments?Crazy.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yeah...and since the Marines are teaching Riverine school that means I have to get ready as if Im going to Marine Infantry school

Oh, you're a Marine? Semper Fi, Tueffel Hund!
I served under the other Bush.

 

[Chris Wallace]

So a comparison is being made to Nazi experiments?Crazy.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT NAZIS? This was done on American soil, by Americans. If memory serves they called it the "Tuskegee Experiment". In any case, what you're proposing is sick, inhumane & has nothing to do with this thread. And "sacrificing the rights of a few" is NEVER justified. That sounds like Bush Jr. talking. Ever heard of the Hypocratic oath?

 

[Abaddon]

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT NAZIS? This was done on American soil, by Americans. If memory serves they called it the "Tuskegee Experiment". In any case, what you're proposing is sick, inhumane & has nothing to do with this thread. And "sacrificing the rights of a few" is NEVER justified. That sounds like Bush Jr. talking. Ever heard of the Hypocratic oath?

Roach mentioned in occured during WW2 so I assumed it had to do with the Nazi's. Civil liberties aside, what is your objection with seeking solutions for human problems using those that are more evolved. And how does it relate to this?

For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

That situation is completely different. The point is mutants have abilities that would benefit humanity as a whole,and why the government wouldn't show any interest in using them for that purpose(as opposed to turning them into weapons or what have you),and why mutants themselves wouldnt show any interest in contributing what they can seems strange. And while I already apologized for throwing off the main discussion,its still relevant to the topic.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Like that time all those black men were purposely given syphillis for research purposes?

My history may be a bit askew.....but I don't think the Black men were purposely given syphillus but rather the study was conducted on poor black men who were tested positive for the disease but were never told they had it.....

...yes it's still despicable

Am I remembering this incorrectly?

 

[roach]

Oh, you're a Marine? Semper Fi, Tueffel Hund!
I served under the other Bush.

Nope Active Duty Navy

 

[Chris Wallace]

Roach mentioned in occured during WW2 so I assumed it had to do with the Nazi's. Civil liberties aside, what is your objection with seeking solutions for human problems using those that are more evolved. And how does it relate to this?




That situation is completely different. The point is mutants have abilities that would benefit humanity as a whole,and why the government wouldn't show any interest in using them for that purpose(as opposed to turning them into weapons or what have you),and why mutants themselves wouldnt show any interest in contributing what they can seems strange. And while I already apologized for throwing off the main discussion,its still relevant to the topic.

1-You brought it up. You tell me how it's relevant.
2-You already spoke in favor of doing such experiments against their will; that alone is so despicable it nullifies anything else you can say on this topic. Here I am talking about intolerance & you're vouchsafing the violent and voracious violation of volition.

 

[roach]

Here I am talking about intolerance & you're vouchsafing the violent and voracious violation of volition.

what are you a 1960's Batman villain??????

 

[Chris Wallace]

My history may be a bit askew.....but I don't think the Black men were purposely given syphillus but rather the study was conducted on poor black men who were tested positive for the disease but were never told they had it.....

...yes it's still despicable

Am I remembering this incorrectly?

My bad; I think you're right. Maybe I got it confused because in my mind there is no ethical difference between purposely giving someone a disease & foregoing treatment to let it take its toll.

 

[Chris Wallace]

what are you a 1960's Batman villain??????

No. That was a line from V.

 

[Abaddon]

1-You brought it up. You tell me how it's relevant.
2-You already spoke in favor of doing such experiments against their will; that alone is so despicable it nullifies anything else you can say on this topic. Here I am talking about intolerance & you're vouchsafing the violent and voracious violation of volition.

1-But you brought up the Tuskegee incident.

2- I woulnd't say it was something I'd endorse,but if it did more good than harm I'd turn a blind eye to the civil issue.