Superman Returns My problem with SUperman Returns.

[Darko]

Superman is a warrior/champion. Superman isn't Romeo (even though Superman stands side by side with this guy in being just a few of the most recognizable couples in history) and while it's great to emphasize the romantic aspect of Superman and Lois, it should never be the core of what Superman should truly stand for, which is a hero. Superman is earth's greatest hero, it's champion, he's the ultimate superhero and should be treated and respected as such in all his big movie interpretations. I also hated the tightness of the suit and Kate Bosworth had too much screentime as opposed to Superman (and she wasn't all that hot, sort of like Katie Holmes in Batman Begins). In the sequel, there should be:

1. More action, because Superman's the first and the ultimate action superhero.

2. Superman is Superman, not emotional-man (couldn't think of a better name). Mentally and physically, Superman is the epitome of strength because of his indestructible will and unmatched feats of strength in sheer physical power (focus should be on a villain that can surpass Superman in this level, so Superman won't let his powers do the work for him.)

3. Less focus on Lois and more on Superman. (I think Lois had more screentime than Superman in this film.)

4. Loosen up the suit, so Brandon Routh can actually breath.

5. More influence from the comics. 70 years worth of comics and Warner Bros. decides on a rehash just to play it safe. Well, DON'T.

 

[sithgoblin]

3. Less focus on Lois and more on Superman. (I think Lois had more screentime than Superman in this film.)

Bingo.

 

[DvilDog]

I agree with the more focus on supes

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

"If we can believe in these two people, if we can make the love story work then everything else will fall into place."

-Richard Donner, Tom Mankiewicz

In the movieverse, it is the romantic connection between Superman and Lois that drives the story, not big explosions or Superman saving someone every five to ten minutes.

 

[Excel]

i agree

 

[sithgoblin]

"If we can believe in these two people, if we can make the love story work then everything else will fall into place."

-Richard Donner, Tom Mankiewicz

In the movieverse, it is the romantic connection between Superman and Lois that drives the story, not big explosions or Superman saving someone every five to ten minutes.

Pity there wasn't any romantic connection in Returns. And there's more to Superman's character than big explosions and saving people. Much more.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Pity there wasn't any romantic connection in Returns. And there's more to Superman's character than big explosions and saving people. Much more.

That's because Returns dealt with the other extreme, the loss of love (in the romantic way--I'd say Lois not wanting Superman to go back or her revealing that Jason is his son was love).

And I agree. There is more to Superman's character than big explosions and saving people. Tell that to everyone saying that Returns would have been a good movie had he thrown a tanker truck at some hulk of a villain or some nonsense.

For me, the relationship between Superman and Lois, and now what will be the relationship between Superman and Jason, have and will greatly showcase Superman's character without having him rescue the world from Zod, Brainiac, Doomsday, Darkseid, Weatherman, Toyman, Lex Luthor, Mettallo, and Mongul all at the same time.

 

[sithgoblin]

I'm more interested in exploring Superman's percieved sense of isolation, something which Returns supposedly set out to do, but didn't really.

He's alone, different from everyone around him, alienated, literally. His public persona of Metropolis Clark further adds to that isolation. Birthright showed the strain it put on him, I'd like to see them explore it in cinema as well. I'm sick of goofy Clark.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

That's understandable, although I don't see that happening in a sequel. He has Jason, he knows now that he isn't alone.

Now, Returns did try to capture Superman's isolation but, sadly, it wound up on the cutting room floor with the Return to Krypton sequence. We get a trace of it with his scene with Ma Kent on Smallville, but after that and the praise he gets for saving the plane, it's about him getting back on the right track with Lois--even if they can't be romantic.

As far as goofy Clark goes, I prefer him but it looked as if they were definitely edging the goofiness out a bit here and there. Sure, he runs into people with his bags in the office. Makes a goofy, dorky expression here and there. But he's no where near the bumbler that Reeve portrayed him as. Clark was all business when it came to making sure what happened to Lois while he was researching with Richard. He didn't mess around, much like the Clark of today's comics wouldn't mess around.

 

[NotFadeAway]

Pity there wasn't any romantic connection in Returns. And there's more to Superman's character than big explosions and saving people. Much more.

Bingo!

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm more interested in exploring Superman's percieved sense of isolation, something which Returns supposedly set out to do, but didn't really.

He's alone, different from everyone around him, alienated, literally. His public persona of Metropolis Clark further adds to that isolation. Birthright showed the strain it put on him, I'd like to see them explore it in cinema as well. I'm sick of goofy Clark.

I don't mind them exploring this, but I hope they do it on a subtle level. One of my beefs with SR is just how friggin serious it is. Superman is supposed to have some joy with it.

 

[The Kid]

Yeah besides it being too dark for my tastes, the lack of joy and fun was definitely a problem. When the movie was trying to do 'comedy' it felt forced and completely fake like watching a bad comedian go through their routine michael richards style. I was thinking "Oh, was I supposed to laugh at that part? ha ha then I guess..." It was very hit or miss with the jokes, mostly miss and you just can't have a superman movie feel so lifeless and sterile as this one, you just can't. the best played joke was the burrito thing with jimmy but when a few seconds of chomping on a taco or whatever is the best joke in the superman movie, that's not a great sign.

One of the reasons I love superman more than batman is because it's lighter and funnier... now I'm almost inclined to watch batman begins since I'd probably enjoy it more than Super-depression-man mopes.

And can someone tell me where was this scene?

I would love to see super-depression-man spank kitty like this.

 

[sithgoblin]

Yeah, obviously any drama has to be balanced with a sense of fun and adventure. He's Superman afterall. It's the ultimate Boys Own Adventure.

But you also need drama to make a film interesting, and I think Clark's alienation from those around him would be more interesting than conflict with Lois's family life.

 

[dude stannis]

Freddy Krueger, cheers on you signature man. I completely agree. the name 'Singerman' is just lame.

Also, I loved the messiah aspects of Superman Returns. Singer delivered in spades. I'm an athiest and it overwhelmed me. I think he should definatley keep that up in MOS. That's why I'd like it if they adapted Death of Superman/World W/out Superman.

A: You'd have one hell of a motherf**kin' fight.

B: Singer could emphasise the Christ allegory alot better than they did in the comics. With stuff like Lois opening Supes tomb three days later and not finding a body. A ressurection scene with a Marlon Brando voiceover is a must (Despite not being in the original comics).

C: Bale cameo Dammit!. Batman saying a prayer from a rooftop for Superman would be such a powerful moment and it would spread good word of mouth as the public would love to see abit of cross promotion.

Thoughts?

 

[GarudA]

Yeah besides it being too dark for my tastes, the lack of joy and fun was definitely a problem. When the movie was trying to do 'comedy' it felt forced and completely fake like watching a bad comedian go through their routine michael richards style. I was thinking "Oh, was I supposed to laugh at that part? ha ha then I guess..." It was very hit or miss with the jokes, mostly miss and you just can't have a superman movie feel so lifeless and sterile as this one, you just can't. the best played joke was the burrito thing with jimmy but when a few seconds of chomping on a taco or whatever is the best joke in the superman movie, that's not a great sign.

One of the reasons I love superman more than batman is because it's lighter and funnier... now I'm almost inclined to watch batman begins since I'd probably enjoy it more than Super-depression-man mopes.

And can someone tell me where was this scene?

I would love to see super-depression-man spank kitty like this.

I agree this movie was just so dull. I just can't get past how people with an IQ of 90+ plus can seriously enjoy the film and say it has little flaws and holes.

 

[GarudA]

Freddy Krueger, cheers on you signature man. I completely agree. the name 'Singerman' is just lame.

Also, I loved the messiah aspects of Superman Returns. Singer delivered in spades. I'm an athiest and it overwhelmed me. I think he should definatley keep that up in MOS. That's why I'd like it if they adapted Death of Superman/World W/out Superman.

A: You'd have one hell of a motherf**kin' fight.

B: Singer could emphasise the Christ allegory alot better than they did in the comics. With stuff like Lois opening Supes tomb three days later and not finding a body. A ressurection scene with a Marlon Brando voiceover is a must (Despite not being in the original comics).

C: Bale cameo Dammit!. Batman saying a prayer from a rooftop for Superman would be such a powerful moment and it would spread good word of mouth as the public would love to see abit of cross promotion.

Thoughts?

What you want "Passion Of The Superman"?

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

I agree this movie was just so dull. I just can't get past how people with an IQ of 90+ plus can seriously enjoy the film and say it has little flaws and holes.

'CuZ were dum lollollollolz!

 

[Lighthouse]

I personally hope they really tone down the Christ allegories.

 

[WormyT]

For me, the relationship between Superman and Lois, and now what will be the relationship between Superman and Jason, have and will greatly showcase Superman's character without having him rescue the world from Zod, Brainiac, Doomsday, Darkseid, Weatherman, Toyman, Lex Luthor, Mettallo, and Mongul all at the same time.

Thats fine, but DON'T call it Superman then . Call it Romance man or Captain Sensitive
Your thinking too small...waaaaay too small.

Supermans a comicbook! NOT A CHEESY ROMANCE NOVEL FOR BORED HOUSEWIVES!!!!!!!! Theres 70 years of history. History that contains enormous battles, different planets, scary Supervillains. It's action adventure sci fi about an alien whos raised by a rural couple in middle america. The romance is part of it but NOT all of it. And JASON IS NOT PART SUPERMAN HISTORY AT ALL!!

 

[WormyT]

Superman is a warrior/champion. Superman isn't Romeo (even though Superman stands side by side with this guy in being just a few of the most recognizable couples in history) and while it's great to emphasize the romantic aspect of Superman and Lois, it should never be the core of what Superman should truly stand for, which is a hero. Superman is earth's greatest hero, it's champion, he's the ultimate superhero and should be treated and respected as such in all his big movie interpretations. I also hated the tightness of the suit and Kate Bosworth had too much screentime as opposed to Superman (and she wasn't all that hot, sort of like Katie Holmes in Batman Begins). In the sequel, there should be:

1. More action, because Superman's the first and the ultimate action superhero.

2. Superman is Superman, not emotional-man (couldn't think of a better name). Mentally and physically, Superman is the epitome of strength because of his indestructible will and unmatched feats of strength in sheer physical power (focus should be on a villain that can surpass Superman in this level, so Superman won't let his powers do the work for him.)

3. Less focus on Lois and more on Superman. (I think Lois had more screentime than Superman in this film.)

4. Loosen up the suit, so Brandon Routh can actually breath.

5. More influence from the comics. 70 years worth of comics and Warner Bros. decides on a rehash just to play it safe. Well, DON'T.

Thank you!!!
We should make a thread called 'Advanced Superman' for people who actually GET Superman. It's as plain as Day that Singer failed with Superman returns. If you can't hook the fans you've failed.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Thank you!!!
We should make a thread called 'Advanced Superman' for people who actually GET Superman.

Puh-lease.

Everyone has their own interpretation of who the Man of Steel is. Don't sit there with your interpretation and say, "This is right, yours is wrong, Singer screwed up end of story." Get off your high horse.

Supermans a comicbook! NOT A CHEESY ROMANCE NOVEL FOR BORED HOUSEWIVES!!!!!!!! Theres 70 years of history. History that contains enormous battles, different planets, scary Supervillains. It's action adventure sci fi about an alien whos raised by a rural couple in middle america. The romance is part of it but NOT all of it. And JASON IS NOT PART SUPERMAN HISTORY AT ALL!!

How is my view point more narrow minded? I want a character driven action film, yet what appears in your description is nothing but gung ho action and scary supervillains. If you like that, fine. But personally I want more than that.

And just because Jason isn't a part of Superman history does not mean he shouldn't be in the film. Films have never, ever kept to the source material, whatever that source material is--be it novel, comic book, graphic novel, 100% and should be allowed to bring in original characters if they wish.

 

[Thot]

I broke down and did something I didn't think I'd do; rented Superman Returns. I wanted to view it after getting some distance from it and with substantially lowered expectations. Though my main gripes about the picture remain, I must admit I liked it a bit better this time around. It's a real love/hate thing for me. I really enjoyed many aspects of the film and absolutely despised others. My overall grade remains a "C". I'm sincerely hoping Singer responds positively to valid criticisms and gives us the film we know he's capable of. I still find Routh to be a fine successor to Reeve and think he'll grow into the role

 

[lujho]

I think Superman movies can and really should be incredibly romantic (both in the lovey dovey sense and the original sense of the word - look it up). There's nothing wrong with that. His love for Lois symbolizes his compassion for all humanity and value of human life, and I think it also emphasizes the fact that emotionally Clark IS human. As human as any of us. He doesn't have weird alien emotions we'll never understand nor does he, I firmly believe, have any greater potential for his emotions to be stronger than ours - he's no kinder than the kindest human, does not love greater than the most compassionate human, he's no braver than the bravest human. He's NOT greater than men in that respect - he's NOT like Jesus or God in that respect. He's like us, with the one simple difference that his physical attributes allows him to act on his emotions in a more effective, grander way than we can.

But anyway, Superman Returns wasn't a love story.

It was a lost-love story. That was the problem - or at least one of its several big problems.

Superman shouldn't pine away over the love that can never be. That's Batman's bag if anything, when you're talking about Talia and Selina (and ONLY those two) - allthough he should never pine for long.

 

[WormyT]

Puh-lease.

Everyone has their own interpretation of who the Man of Steel is. Don't sit there with your interpretation and say, "This is right, yours is wrong, Singer screwed up end of story." Get off your high horse.

When you adapt a comic book like Superman and make a sensitive chick flick. Again if it's so far from the source material and is feminised so much and pretty much made for women they should just call it something else.

How is my view point more narrow minded? I want a character driven action film, yet what appears in your description is nothing but gung ho action and scary supervillains. If you like that, fine. But personally I want more than that.

Of course it should be character driven but if you have 2 hours to kill and no origin to tell, it's inexcusable to not have a supervillain and some action and killer finale to blow us a away. Again, it's Superman. And if you want character driven why do you like a superhero movie where the main character says practically NOTHING in his OWN movie. And again if you want character, how come there was little to NO dialogue between the hero and the villain. Pathetic.

And just because Jason isn't a part of Superman history does not mean he shouldn't be in the film. Films have never, ever kept to the source material, whatever that source material is--be it novel, comic book, graphic novel, 100% and should be allowed to bring in original characters if they wish.

You can't honestly think having jason was a good idea. Theres hundreds of characters from the books that have yet to be adapted for a movie adaption. Instead of an interesting character we've been given Jason. SOO CHEESY.

Every point you made is valid but do you really think singer did a good character driven superhero movie. Clark was a poor impersonation of Reeves Clark. Superman said nothing and was unassertive and wimpy. Lois was poorly cast and uncharasmatic. Luthors plot was ridiculous and he was campy and corney. The suit was crap, a lot of the CG was very bad and the overall plot was a ridiculous rehash of STM only made MORE boring and MORE cheesy with even less action.
A Travesty.

 

[lujho]

I don't mind them exploring this, but I hope they do it on a subtle level. One of my beefs with SR is just how friggin serious it is. Superman is supposed to have some joy with it.

Yeah. To boil it doen to a symbolic level... this Superman didn't smile. Not really.... not like he should.

The most "joyous" we saw Clark was in the great flashback in the cornfield scene, where he's like "holy **** I can leap 1/8th of a mile! Awesome!". Superman should be like that when he's flying around on a sunny day, and he should flash a smile to everyone he talks to.