Negativity towards the DC films? - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]508983[/split]

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

Does anyone find that there seems to be a huge amount of negativity online regarding films in the DC Extended Universe? I'm not sure how much of this is representative of the larger population, and I get that Man of Steel was a controversial film. But it just seems like whenever I see something cool from Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman or whatever, the positive comments are overwhelmingly drowned out by the sheer vitriol and negativity basically complaining and criticizing every aspect of the production and DC films in general.

What are your thoughts? Personally, I like everything I've seen, but the future of this cinematic universe relies on the movies being popular and well-liked enough for the studio to make more. Marvel has the advantage of having proven themselves in a way that has created trust in their brand. Is the negativity towards DC films a real problem, and if so, is it simply a result of the fact that all we have to go on so far is one hugely divisive film in the form of MOS?

 

[zlucamanz]

because DCEU film did worst than DC animated counterpart?

 

[2kt09]

because DCEU film did worst than DC animated counterpart?

Yeah, the blueprint was right there for the taking.
Ayer needed to inject what he's been great at so far.

 

[MbJ]

There's so much moving the goalposts in this discussion. Critics don't hate dark, serious superhero films. There are many fitting that description that have been very well reviewed (Logan, Days of Future Past, Nolan's Batfilms and others disprove this). That's an odd argument to make in the first place since snobby critics have a reputation for showering dark, depressing films with praise and not liking upbeat popcorn films.

And with Wonder Woman getting good reviews you can't say it's just because there's a bias or hatred towards DC (which was already easily disproven by the reception to the above-mentioned Nolan films, not to mention the early Burton Batman flicks, the first two Superman movies, and so on).

And of course even if you're gonna try and say critics only like Wonder Woman because it's more optimistic and funny than the past movies, lest we forget Suicide Squad also had many jokey moments and a less serious tone than BVS or Man of Steel.

What you're left with for a conclusion is maybe critics didn't like the first three DCEU films for totally legitimate reasons. I don't know why this is an outcome people so violently reject. It's fine. I like plenty of films critics don't like. It doesn't cause me to accuse them of having biases against it or being part of a conspiracy to destroy films like it.

 

[Erzengel]

The only way to combat negativity is with positive results which looks like is happening with WW. That's Step 1. Step 2 is JL. Let's just hope it's not 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

[metaphysician]

I think the odds of JL being a step back approach unity. Still, if WW is actually good, that shows they *can* do good stuff. They just hopefully learn the right lessons.

 

[Flint Marko]

There's so much moving the goalposts in this discussion. Critics don't hate dark, serious superhero films. There are many fitting that description that have been very well reviewed (Logan, Days of Future Past, Nolan's Batfilms and others disprove this). That's an odd argument to make in the first place since snobby critics have a reputation for showering dark, depressing films with praise and not liking upbeat popcorn films.

And with Wonder Woman getting good reviews you can't say it's just because there's a bias or hatred towards DC (which was already easily disproven by the reception to the above-mentioned Nolan films, not to mention the early Burton Batman flicks, the first two Superman movies, and so on).

And of course even if you're gonna try and say critics only like Wonder Woman because it's more optimistic and funny than the past movies, lest we forget Suicide Squad also had many jokey moments and a less serious tone than BVS or Man of Steel.

What you're left with for a conclusion is maybe critics didn't like the first three DCEU films for totally legitimate reasons. I don't know why this is an outcome people so violently reject. It's fine. I like plenty of films critics don't like. It doesn't cause me to accuse them of having biases against it or being part of a conspiracy to destroy films like it.

Also, am I the only one that remembers the immense amount of hype and excitement there was for both MoS and BvS? Those trailers weren't at all misleading, they were clearly giving us a grim and serious Superman film on both occasions and yet people were foaming at the mouth for it. So no, I reject the idea that people just won't accept a "darker" version of Superman because the huge amount of hype and record-setting box office openings have shown that isn't the case. We were ready for it. It's on the movie and the film-makers for delivering a subpar product, and I can't believe we still have people blaming the fans and the critics for the movie's poor reputation. It's insecurity and intellectual dishonesty that leads to such ridiculous claims.

 

[Limonade]

Also, am I the only one that remembers the immense amount of hype and excitement there was for both MoS and BvS? Those trailers weren't at all misleading, they were clearly giving us a grim and serious Superman film on both occasions and yet people were foaming at the mouth for it. So no, I reject the idea that people just won't accept a "darker" version of Superman because the huge amount of hype and record-setting box office openings have shown that isn't the case. We were ready for it. It's on the movie and the film-makers for delivering a subpar product, and I can't believe we still have people blaming the fans and the critics for the movie's poor reputation. It's insecurity and intellectual dishonesty that leads to such ridiculous claims.

Uh-uh. Stop right there.

MoS, at the very least, had images of destruction--yes. But the whole tone of those trailers were very much hopeful. With the swell of Hans Zimmer's score... it was a pretty good trailer with lots of action!

Something that, at the time, was complete 180 from Singer's Superman Returns.

However, when the movie came out. It divided Superman fans both Hardcore and Casual.

The need to distinguish the differences between the two movie was so great, that it ultimately gave us a Zod death that was executed terribly.

 

[Flint Marko]

Uh-uh. Stop right there.

MoS, at the very least, had images of destruction--yes. But the whole tone of those trailers were very much hopeful. With the swell of Hans Zimmer's score... it was a pretty good trailer with lots of action!

Something that, at the time, was complete 180 from Singer's Superman Returns.

However, when the movie came out. It divided Superman fans both Hardcore and Casual.

The need to distinguish the differences between the two movie was so great, that it ultimately gave us a Zod death that was executed terribly.

I recall the trailers being very straight-faced and serious. That doesn't mean the music wasn't "hopeful", but the movie delivered on the tone it was promising. It was BvS where they doubled down on the darker, humorless approach.

 

[dc_marvel_fan]

I think most of the negativity comes from BvS. Even tho i loved the movie, they joined their most popular heroes (Superman, Batman and WW) in one movie and couldnt even reach 1 billion. Everyone thought that movie would rivalry with Avangers and it didnt. So i think people got desapointed.

 

[Boy Scout]

The only way to combat negativity is with positive results which looks like is happening with WW. That's Step 1. Step 2 is JL. Let's just hope it's not 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

You'd think, but I've already seen DCEU Defenders try and undermine known detractors' positive comments.

 

[The Batman]

You'd think, but I've already seen DCEU Defenders try and undermine known detractors' positive comments.

How so?

 

[MbJ]

How so?

People are saying because the critics keep mentioning it being optimistic and fun, it must be a generic, brainless popcorn movie.

Alternatively that WB caved and made a Marvel-style film to pander to critics and audiences rather than sticking to their guns and doing something edgy and dark (which is absurd; Marvel Studios did not invent the notion of superhero movies having jokes or being fun).

 

[Boy Scout]

Also, am I the only one that remembers the immense amount of hype and excitement there was for both MoS and BvS? Those trailers weren't at all misleading, they were clearly giving us a grim and serious Superman film on both occasions and yet people were foaming at the mouth for it. So no, I reject the idea that people just won't accept a "darker" version of Superman because the huge amount of hype and record-setting box office openings have shown that isn't the case. We were ready for it. It's on the movie and the film-makers for delivering a subpar product, and I can't believe we still have people blaming the fans and the critics for the movie's poor reputation. It's insecurity and intellectual dishonesty that leads to such ridiculous claims.

MOS didn't promise a "grim" film. Serious, yes, but grim? Definitely not. I know I wouldn't have been excited for the film if it had.

How so?

"A week ago you guys were saying Gadot was a horrible actress, but now that critics are praising her, she's all that and a bag of chips. Go figure!"

"The critics are giving this a positive review, so y'all are all about this movie now? B*tch please!"

Not direct quotes, but stupid **** like that.

 

[The Endless]

The MoS trailers were amazing from the start.

For me personally all the BvS trailers seemed a bit off.

 

[Boy Scout]

I didn't mind the DOJ trailers. The CC trailer was a bit grim, but it made perfect sense for it to be so. I actually liked the Doomsday trailer, even though I know a lot of people didn't. I don't remember the rest (if I'm even missing any); they either weren't memorable or showed too little to matter.

My excitement was always going to be tempered. The trailers for MOS were perfect and the movie is almost aggressively mediocre.

 

[Erzengel]

"A week ago you guys were saying Gadot was a horrible actress, but now that critics are praising her, she's all that and a bag of chips. Go figure!"

"The critics are giving this a positive review, so y'all are all about this movie now? B*tch please!"

Not direct quotes, but stupid **** like that.

That was a few people's response as to why BvS underperformed, critics brainwashed fans.

 

[Limonade]

As I recall, half the complaints in our MoS thread were about the execution of Zod by Superman along with the destruction that came with it... they were never really quelled or forgotten and leading into BvS-- skepticism only grew.

That's where, at least, the negativity in DC at Superherohype grew.

 

[Boy Scout]

That was a few people's response as to why BvS underperformed, critics brainwashed fans.

Yep. You'd think positive reviews would unite us, but maybe we'll experience more of this division until the DCEU manages to consistently provide us with quality products. Super.

 

[Boy Scout]

As I recall, half the complaints in our MoS thread were about the execution of Zod by Superman along with the destruction that came with it... they were never really quelled or forgotten and leading into BvS-- skepticism only grew.

That's where, at least, the negativity in DC at Superherohype grew.

Not to turn this into yet another of these discussions, but what really ground my gears about the whole thing (besides the piss poor manner in which it was done [not to mention the logic behind it in the first place]) is the complete and utter change in attitude by those who didn't have a problem with it.

Pre-MOS, you could've wandered into any Superman related thread, said "Superman doesn't kill." and the responses would've been some variation of "Duh."

Post-MOS, you'll get about half a dozen responses that start with, "Well actually..."

It's blatant revisionist history that's being used to justify a stupid ass decision that ultimately didn't even matter. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[MbJ]

It's people who refuse to entertain anything that interferes with their worldview. Batman v. Superman was an amazing masterpiece and the only reason people supposedly didn't like it was because of bias against DC. Wonder Woman gets positive reviews despite being a DC film, disproving this idea. Therefore, there must be something fishy or not on the level about Wonder Woman getting good reviews, because otherwise it'd mean that people had legitimate reasons for not liking Batman v. Superman, and as we all know, that's simply impossible.

 

[Leenie]

I thought that the MoS trailers looked pretty great altogether. The movie ended up being somewhat passable for me, but with no rewatchability factor whatsoever.

BvS, on the other hand, though ... I knew that I was going to dislike the movie from the start. I never got excited over how the film was going to turn out. The movie was exactly what I had feared and expected.

Suicide Squad was a mixed bag for me in terms of marketing/hype prior to seeing the film. I thought the studio was messing with us when they revealed how the Joker was going to look, but I did really enjoy all of the trailers. The end product was just a mess of a movie for me.

I've been really enjoying the marketing for Wonder Woman, and I am hopeful.

As for the Justice League trailers ... The movie looks like dumb fun to me, but nothing more than that (which is a HUGE improvement over BvS for me).

 

[The Batman]

"A week ago you guys were saying Gadot was a horrible actress, but now that critics are praising her, she's all that and a bag of chips. Go figure!"

"The critics are giving this a positive review, so y'all are all about this movie now? B*tch please!"

Not direct quotes, but stupid **** like that.

Lol, not surprising.

Wouldn't be shocked if some DCEU fans started trashing WW just because its the only DCEU film critics seem to actually like.

 

[The Batman]

Yep. You'd think positive reviews would unite us, but maybe we'll experience more of this division until the DCEU manages to consistently provide us with quality products. Super.

For some, there won't be any unity until the majority of critics and skeptics suddenly decide that MOS and BvS were/are masterpieces and that they "Get it" now.