....dayum! Tell us what you really think. I agree with most of this, a large part of me wants this to work but knows it won't really. Just like the ultimate avengers i sorta liked until i thought hey i like regular avengers and this aint it and the only thing that makes ultimate different is the super adult themes Lets have giant man smack his wife around and it didn't have that it was lost somewhere in the middle.
I thought it was a TV show not direct to video that sucks
The part I disagree with is there are new fans, but mostly it's us old guys who buy everything. I also liked how you picked like the 3 best cartoons back in the day (batman, spiderman, gargoyles) to illustrate it can work
Thanks. Yeah, I was on a work break and I didn't intend to ramble like I did, but I did nevertheless.
What Marvel fails to understand is that a lot of Marvel animation fans watch the Timm-era DC cartoons and pine to have their equalivents. Pine to have shows that can make the animation, story, and action quality.
Thanks to Greg Wiesman, Cheeks Galloway, Tad Stones, and others, we may be able to finally replace the "good but very flawed" 90's Spider-Man with SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN (hopefully it can last beyond Season 2).
But the Avengers have never been given star treatment. The only team Marvel cares about enough to do well in animation is, frankly, the X-Men.
The 2003 era FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES show was a lot of fun on DVD boxset and I almost feel sorry for bashing it for years. But it took HOW many failed Four shows to get to that point?
Ah, towards the end of WHAT IF's run in the late 90's (the era that launched MC2 and created Spider-Girl).
And in case you want to look at some more of that awesome cartoon art they could use for a show movie or whatever:
http://www.medinnus.com/rt_art/
I know about
RonnieThunderbolts. He posted some of his art for Dan Slott in the AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE topic at the Marvel Boards and I scope out his work at another MB.
Is this Marvel's attempt at copy catting a Teen Titans type if vibe?
More than likely. The last Marvel show that appealed to kids was X-MEN EVOLUTION, a show full of production compromises with Kid's WB they hated, and thus why it has seen a botched DVD release (despite still being popular). Marvel has never really had a teen show.
There's POWER PACK, which should be ideal for a kid audience, but Marvel has no cajones to try anything on the big screen that doesn't rely on the same set of A-List characters. True, DC's TEEN TITANS and LEGION OF SUPERHEROES initially relied on Robin and Superman, respectively, but also starred a lot of "who are they?" type characters to a typical non-comic audience.
wow, everyone seems to be giving Next Avengers a lot of flack and not even giving it that much of a chance. i'm gonna go in with a clear-head when i watch it and hopefully enjoy it. it's entertainment. that's all it is. and what was so wrong with Ultimate Avengers? Invincible Iron Man? Doctor Strange?
and i'm probably gonna be gettin bashed for everything i've said.
No, I won't bash you. Promise.
I actually liked ULTIMATE AVENGERS, and even ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2 (even if it was an inferior sequel), but I like them as exciting action stories. They've got some 616 hints in them, but they are mainly branching from the uber-militaristic ULTIMATES comics. UA has maybe 35% of it's sequences taken straight from the comic. It is very obviously an adaptation of the ULTIMATES; even though the sequel goes in another direction (mostly), it still has the same villain from the end of ULTIMATES and they even hired Bryan Hitch to design Black Panther and the Wakandans to match the "feel". They're fun superhero action tales, but they aren't the 616 Avengers. They're THE ULTIMATES, lightened up and made less cynical for a wider audience.
INVINCIBLE IRON MAN was a flop. The CGI animation didn't animate or gel well with the 2-D animation and the story was pedestrian. The "Western technology/know how vs. Oriental Magic" plotline is so old and cliche that BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA all but mocked it as satire TWENTY YEARS AGO. The producers make a big deal about their version of Mandarin in this, even though he appears on screen for 5 minutes, gets maybe 1 line, and really isn't more than a ghost that possesses people, a la' Sauron from LOTR. It was a major disappointment and I am glad that the big screen IRON MAN film virtually ignored EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE that this DTV made.
DOCTOR STRANGE I liked as well. I do see the flaws; people didn't like the focus on martial arts, and felt Dr. Strange was underpowered. Magic is a hard topic to cover; you either write it as too weak or too strong, and very few can get that middle-ground. I thought it had a strong character story for Strange and unlike the previous animated films, had some genuine villains (Baron Mordo, Dormammu). Even if Mordo's end is anti-climatic and Dormammu goes down way too quickly (a flaw I have seen in the LG DTV's throughout; Kleiser goes down WAY too quickly in UA2 and I don't need to speak about the Mandarin). I bet in the end, ULTRON goes down in about 3 minutes in NEXT AVENGERS.
And that is probably why the Marvel DTV's are flawed. The creative team that handles most of them simply is too used to TV and can't figure out how to push an envelope or produce any idea that isn't what a corporate hack could come up with, only go, "hey, add more violence!" for the "mature" pics. There is more to maturity than violence; focusing simply on violence is the sign of adolescence.
well what do we have to compare to them? sure we have DC Universe ones. What did u guys think bout Superman: Doomsday? Was it great? Not really. It was okay. It's the weakest of the DC films so far. Justice League: New Frontier. Was it great? Okay yeah it was good. Sure I know a lot of ppl complain bout how the story was compacted to fit the time constrains. Batman: Gotham Knight. Was it great? I think it's pretty damn good. The best so far.
See, I don't take the DC cartoons and compare 'em to Marvels attempts. Tho, prob. my fault cuz I don't know that much bout the marvel comics. I'm mostly a DC guy myself. But my rating on whether or not it's good or not, it has to fit a few points on a criteria I came up with.
It's gotta have good characters, good story, great action. And above most it's gotta have awesome animation. Iron Man sorta wasn't the best, cuz they chose to do his armor in cg. And the story was meh. They needed to actually have the Mandarin if ur gonna have him. But it had good characters. So can Next Avengers do any worse than Invincible Iron Man? I don't think so, cuz i think that Iron Man was the weakest in all of the marvel cartoons so far.
The DC animated DTV's have Bruce Timm, who is an animation master. He can rip himself off and recycle elements from past shows, like SUPERMAN DOOMSDAY or even some bits of BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS (the gimmick being the Japanese animation), and still produce things that at least match the LG DTV's, if not outdo much of them. He has 14+ years of experience to pull from, and has that pedigree.
The only Marvel animation guy who can claim that is Greg Wiesman. And to some degree the guys working on WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN.
JUSTICE LEAGUE: NEW FRONTIER was a masterpiece and hindered only by a short run time causing them to cut out more from the book. I can safely say Marvel LG DTV will never translate any story as faithfully and maturely and offer such deep subject matter beyond gore. Never. The production crew for the DTV's simply is not as talented as Daryn Cooke or Bruce Timm. They're not and never will be. Period.
I think the DC films have been significantly stronger then the Marvel ones because they're true to the source. Marvel gives way too much room and DC keeps it strict. Especially when they have someone amazing like BT.
That is ironic, isn't it? As a Marvel fan, I feel they have had better stories and characters than a lot of "old DC". Yet Marvel almost never tells those stories faithfully. They're afraid of being seen as corny. They're the insecure nerd who is desperate to be seen as "cool" by the cool kids (hence why Marvel will throw any comic book to virtually anyone in Hollywood if they ask; actor, screen-writer, even a key grip in a cult flick).
Meanwhile, Timm & DC's shows aren't ashamed of being superhero shows in spandex and just want to do them well.
