Dread
TMNT 1984-2009
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2001
- Messages
- 21,788
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 31
I would have preferred an actual Avengers story with this attention to detail, and this version of Ultron. Not tweenie wanna-be Avengers.
Roger Ebert once stated, "Some movies succeed by following a formula and some fail by following a formula." It all is subjective, of course. But for me, the moments I liked best about the flick didn't involve the kids. Out of all of them, Francis was probably my favorite, because he was the only one who wasn't annoying or incompetant (even if he was a "typical rebel kid"). I dislike how writers associate "common" in adults and children with "being dumber than dirt". Pym's jokes were like scratching a chalkboard for me; for every line that worked, there were about five that didn't. He was very grating. I'd take an entire team of Molly Hayes clones from RUNAWAYS over more Pym from NEXT AVENGERS.
I saw NEXT AVENGERS as the reason why there never will be a proper Avengers cartoons; because network hacks believe that the only way to appeal to kids is with kids, when that isn't true at all. I'm not saying ALL children or teenager characters should be nixed from cartoons. But I am also stating that children can and have loved shows about adult characters. Many of those shows from the 80's and 90's are still beloved by those children as current adults, hence why the DVD's sell well.
I don't want to see Hawkeye's kid having an argument over leadership with Cap's kid; I want to see CLINT BARTON have an argument over leadership with STEVE ROGERS. What verges on insulting about NEXT AVENGERS is that is alludes to dynamics and episodes that have never been translated or adopted into any animation medium, and never will be. Anyone who believes AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND from 1999 counts as sufficient enough needs to have their standards checked.
The best attempt to shove a teenage body into a defined franchise for me was BATMAN BEYOND, which displayed far more imagination and creativity than NEXT AVENGERS did, and without any hindsight. The kids in NEXT AVENGERS I saw as stock, cliche stereotypes. I can't imagine it took longer than an hour to come up with their characters for the movie bible. I've seen more imaginative alternate characters in message board RPG's. While I am thankful that Azari didn't spout "urban slang" and no kid rode a skateboard (the iconic example of stock child characters in cartoons since the 80's), that hardly means they were the pinnacle of imagination.
I stand by my belief here that Ultron, Iron Man, and Vision all needed a better, more Avenger centric film for them. Not to be afterthoughts and details to a typical tween hero adventure that follows every beat so well you almost think you've seen the flick already and can predict every single event that follows. So will most children. Hell, kids who are 9-13 now are far more cynical and jaded than ones who were that old in the 80's or 90's. They've had more access to cable and seen a lot more TV (back when I was a kid, cable was still a luxury).
Robbing Pym of the Ultron legacy to hand it to Stark was unforgiveable, especially as it wasn't needed; Ultron needed Stark alive to pump him for info about the kids. Showing so much attention to comic lore and then throwing a large chunk of that away just to add yet more spotlight to Iron Man the year he has a movie is almost shameless pandering.
The Marvel LG films have a history of stupid moves like that; they completely sucked all the drama out of Iron Man's origin in INVINCIBLE IRON MAN by claiming Stark had already built a fleet of armor suits before he was kidnapped by terrorists. Thankfully, the live action film's writers weren't that short-sighted.
It is ironic that a Marvel LG film finally, FINALLY gets a genuine Marvel villain 100% right, and it is in a film with generic kid heroes that are so worthless that Hulk easily upstages their final act. Marvel could have animated ULTRON UNLEASHED and produced a GREAT film that we'd be talking about for years to come. Instead, they merely aspired for "good", middle of the road kiddie fodder for CARTOON NETWORK. A dilemma that has plagued most of the DTV's thus far. Rather than be excellent and take some risks, they hold back to try to apply across the board, and suffer as a result. Kyle & Yost are too used to the restrictions of TV networks, and have not learned to strive above that (or even to TRY), beyond gore.
Bruce Timm and Greg Wiesman, and to some degree Steven E. Gordon always have, and that is why they usually back better work.
Roger Ebert once stated, "Some movies succeed by following a formula and some fail by following a formula." It all is subjective, of course. But for me, the moments I liked best about the flick didn't involve the kids. Out of all of them, Francis was probably my favorite, because he was the only one who wasn't annoying or incompetant (even if he was a "typical rebel kid"). I dislike how writers associate "common" in adults and children with "being dumber than dirt". Pym's jokes were like scratching a chalkboard for me; for every line that worked, there were about five that didn't. He was very grating. I'd take an entire team of Molly Hayes clones from RUNAWAYS over more Pym from NEXT AVENGERS.
I saw NEXT AVENGERS as the reason why there never will be a proper Avengers cartoons; because network hacks believe that the only way to appeal to kids is with kids, when that isn't true at all. I'm not saying ALL children or teenager characters should be nixed from cartoons. But I am also stating that children can and have loved shows about adult characters. Many of those shows from the 80's and 90's are still beloved by those children as current adults, hence why the DVD's sell well.
I don't want to see Hawkeye's kid having an argument over leadership with Cap's kid; I want to see CLINT BARTON have an argument over leadership with STEVE ROGERS. What verges on insulting about NEXT AVENGERS is that is alludes to dynamics and episodes that have never been translated or adopted into any animation medium, and never will be. Anyone who believes AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND from 1999 counts as sufficient enough needs to have their standards checked.
The best attempt to shove a teenage body into a defined franchise for me was BATMAN BEYOND, which displayed far more imagination and creativity than NEXT AVENGERS did, and without any hindsight. The kids in NEXT AVENGERS I saw as stock, cliche stereotypes. I can't imagine it took longer than an hour to come up with their characters for the movie bible. I've seen more imaginative alternate characters in message board RPG's. While I am thankful that Azari didn't spout "urban slang" and no kid rode a skateboard (the iconic example of stock child characters in cartoons since the 80's), that hardly means they were the pinnacle of imagination.
I stand by my belief here that Ultron, Iron Man, and Vision all needed a better, more Avenger centric film for them. Not to be afterthoughts and details to a typical tween hero adventure that follows every beat so well you almost think you've seen the flick already and can predict every single event that follows. So will most children. Hell, kids who are 9-13 now are far more cynical and jaded than ones who were that old in the 80's or 90's. They've had more access to cable and seen a lot more TV (back when I was a kid, cable was still a luxury).
Robbing Pym of the Ultron legacy to hand it to Stark was unforgiveable, especially as it wasn't needed; Ultron needed Stark alive to pump him for info about the kids. Showing so much attention to comic lore and then throwing a large chunk of that away just to add yet more spotlight to Iron Man the year he has a movie is almost shameless pandering.
The Marvel LG films have a history of stupid moves like that; they completely sucked all the drama out of Iron Man's origin in INVINCIBLE IRON MAN by claiming Stark had already built a fleet of armor suits before he was kidnapped by terrorists. Thankfully, the live action film's writers weren't that short-sighted.
It is ironic that a Marvel LG film finally, FINALLY gets a genuine Marvel villain 100% right, and it is in a film with generic kid heroes that are so worthless that Hulk easily upstages their final act. Marvel could have animated ULTRON UNLEASHED and produced a GREAT film that we'd be talking about for years to come. Instead, they merely aspired for "good", middle of the road kiddie fodder for CARTOON NETWORK. A dilemma that has plagued most of the DTV's thus far. Rather than be excellent and take some risks, they hold back to try to apply across the board, and suffer as a result. Kyle & Yost are too used to the restrictions of TV networks, and have not learned to strive above that (or even to TRY), beyond gore.
Bruce Timm and Greg Wiesman, and to some degree Steven E. Gordon always have, and that is why they usually back better work.
Last edited:
t: Marvel keeps them coming with their Animated Projects.
