Justice League Next version of Superman needs to be powered down...a lot!!!

[JOE]

The only JL member who was needed outside of Superman was Batman... To help Clark buy back his house. Haha, I loved that part. "I bought the bank."

 

[Raiden]

This has always been the problem with JL: having a superhero who is so OP that he makes other members seemed expendable. This is why Thor in MCU has a drastic power reduction and isn't even the leader of The Avengers, because the team should be bigger than just one superhero, theoretically.

 

[Guts]

I enjoyed seeing how powerful superman is.

If superman does have a weakness to magic though, then Wonder Woman's lasso should have done something to him. Maybe his arm goes numb or we see it get some weird colored veins like he was being poisoned or something by it touching his skin.

Except Superman's magic weakness doesn't work like kryptonite where is would make him feel weak. Magic just bypasses his invulnerability. If Wonder Woman used her sword against him then it would have cut him. Or if El Diablo from Suicide Squad used his fire on Superman, it would have burned him because it is mystical. But the lasso would really just have the same effects that it would normally have on everyone else.

 

[spider-neil]

This has always been the problem with JL: having a superhero who is so OP that he makes other members seemed expendable. This is why Thor in MCU has a drastic power reduction and isn't even the leader of The Avengers, because the team should be bigger than just one superhero, theoretically.

Superman has had his power reduced in JL cartoon until the final episode where he utterly cuts loose on Darkseid.

 

[Guts]

Superman has had his power reduced in JL cartoon until the final episode where he utterly cuts loose on Darkseid.

And in the scene he explained that he's been holding back.
[YT]Cl_5UwS57X8[/YT]
While watching the scene where Superman beats Steppenwolf, I thought it would be a great idea to have Superman get pummeled by Darkseid when they fight for the first time. After showcasing how powerful Superman really is in Justice League, they could use that as an opportunity to show how much more powerful Darkseid is.

 

[Mani-Man]

And in the scene he explained that he's been holding back.
[YT]Cl_5UwS57X8[/YT]
While watching the scene where Superman beats Steppenwolf, I thought it would be a great idea to have Superman get pummeled by Darkseid when they fight for the first time. After showcasing how powerful Superman really is in Justice League, they could use that as an opportunity to show how much more powerful Darkseid is.

Dont you dare to bring this scene in here. t:
Im not a huge Superman fan but no matter how many times i see it, this always gives me Goosebumps.
I would give everything to see this scene in Live Action with Cavill delivering the lines.

But the effect wouldnt be the same in this universe i think because you already have Superman in his first movie destroying smallville and Metropolis.
Still, such a scene would be sweet.

 

[spider-neil]

Dont you dare to bring this scene in here. t:
Im not a huge Superman fan but no matter how many times i see it, this always gives me Goosebumps.
I would give everything to see this scene in Live Action with Cavill delivering the lines.

But the effect wouldnt be the same in this universe i think because you already have Superman in his first movie destroying smallville and Metropolis.
Still, such a scene would be sweet.

JL is my favorite American animated show bar none (Spectacular Spider-Man is a close second). The storylines are utterly EPIC. Is a disgrace that a Saturday morning cartoony had more weight, drama, and stacks than a $300m Hollywood blockbuster.

 

[heatvision38]

Which should mean, he's vulnerable to magic. Because if he has no special immunity to it, it should hurt him just like a normal human, rather than an invulnerable demigod.

This is why I hate the magic "weakness": because its almost never allowed to be an actual weakness. It always gets rules lawyered to try and explain why, yes, he totally has a weakness, even though this JLA-level magical opponent somehow doesn't flatten his ass effortlessly.

Depends on what it is. If it's a magical enchantment like WW's lasso or blade, then it will affect him like anyone else. If it's a force based on magic, such as Shazam himself, his lightning, Solomon Grundy, or Alan Scott GL, then it will hurt him more than those same forces would if they were not magical. But, a lightning blast from Shazam, which is a magical lightning blast, does not kill Superman like it would a human.

The way I've always viewed it is that an enchanted item or a spell will work on Superman the same as it would anyone else, whereas something that is infused with magical energy will just do more damage than it would otherwise do.

 

[heatvision38]

Superman has had his power reduced in JL cartoon until the final episode where he utterly cuts loose on Darkseid.

They did up his powers after the first season of JL. On the Season 1 DVD, they have a round table discussion (Bruce Timm and gang) about the first season and they said they got a lot of letters about how depowered Superman was, causing them to rewatch the episodes and realizing this was true. You start to see in Season 2 that Superman has taken it up a notch, though still not too powerful. The first episode of Season 2 shows him going up against Brainiac and Darkseid. Then the first season of JLU, it's a Superman based story (or Superman at least represents the head of the snake that Cadmus is afraid of), and he defeats Captain Atom and Captain Marvel as well as Mongul whom Wonder Woman struggled with. Season 2 of JLU, we get that scene you described. So, they did seem to amp up his powers as the animated series went on.

 

[jmc]

I think the problem you have with Superman is that you need a threat that's as powerful as he is so it poses some type of danger to him. The problem being someone of that threat level, like Zod, is going to bring about as much destruction as shown in MoS. Maybe the solution to Superman is to have him be almost like a battery. The more he uses his powers the more it drains him, the more vulnerable he becomes until the sun recharges him. Dunno, just throwing around ideas.

 

[Jekecy]

I think the problem you have with Superman is that you need a threat that's as powerful as he is so it poses some type of danger to him.

Not true. Supes can be "hurt" through family, friends, and his values. Luthor isn't his arch-nemesis by random.

 

[jmc]

 

[Jekecy]

What, have I misinterpreted your statement? Or is what I wrote somehow absurdly incorrect?

 

[Rocanrol]

Power creep is a problem with Superman as old as injustice.

 

[Tra-El]

Re: Next version of Superman needs to be powered down...a lot!!!

Nope.

 

[jmc]

What, have I misinterpreted your statement? Or is what I wrote somehow absurdly incorrect?

I was clearly talking a physical threat, not an emotional one, as if I didn't know such things also existed.

 

[InCali]

I for one don't think he needs depowered at all. Superman has always been one of the most powerful superheroes in the universe, and certainly one of the strongest on Earth. I have no issues with them portraying it that way on screen. I want him to be a powerhouse.

I feel that powering him down is a cheap way out when writers can't come up with something that can threaten him. Smallville used to do it every week with Kryptonite ........... aka "meteor rock". Superman is obviously physically strong, but that doesn't mean he can't be threatened - look at "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice & the American Way?" as a way of showcasing how he can be forced into a corner sometimes.

I also like the idea of a team where the players aren't all identical in terms of strength; they all have their own areas where they excel.

Superman has physical strength by the bucketload. But he can't control the oceans like Aquaman, he doesn't have the ruthlessness and strategising that Batman has, he doesn't have the tech and control of data/information that Cyborg has. I suspect he doesn't have the ultimate speed that Flash has either, not to the extent that he can time travel - though this newbie Flash in JL hasn't quite hit those highs yet. And finally, whilst him and Wonder Woman are similar, her background, gender and warrior-like outlook enable her to have a very different perspective on things sometimes.

JL only showed us a physical fight, where Superman will always excel because of strength. There will be other situations where the attributes of other team members are needed more.



It's hard to know if they were holding back. Obviously they seemed apprehensive when he was standing watching them, and WW was reluctant to engage him, but when they all actually went at him - Superman had WW and Aquaman held back with one hand on each, Cyborg was trying to push him back with no success, and he was simultaneously tracking Flash with his eyes as he supersped towards him. I didn't get a sense they were not really exerting themselves.

As strong as Superman is, he can't deal with every threat. Some aren't physical at all, but are manipulation/control. Some could be magical. Some, like Darkseid, could be physically on a par or stronger than Superman. Some require him to be in two places at once, which he can't do even with superspeed. Some threats may take him offworld and leave Earth exposed. That's why there is a League; they are all there to back each other up. Not only that, but the dynamics of a team and differing perspectives help keep even Superman in check sometimes.

Supes is invulnerable so you have to come up with another way to threaten him. He was threatened by Lex, Brainiac, etc. Just not by strength.

No need to power him down, but please get away from brooding, cynical, angry Superman.

 

[TheVileOne]

Superman doesn't need to be de-powered at all. You just need to think of creative ways around it. Vulnerable to magic is an easy way around this.

Superman being affected by things that are essentially not bound by rules of science or what have you, and then he can react like "oh crap, this can trap me." Maybe it doesn't seriously hurt him, but it can be a serious obstacle or take him temporarily out of a fight.

It worked for Justice League vs. Masters of the Universe.

Think about this. A Lantern power ring has the power to literally split atoms. A weapon such as that can challenge Superman. So if Sinestro were to show up with a yellow ring or a green ring, he'd be a match for Superman.

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[DeadlyDiarrhea]

You have to take this up to DC comics.
They have established that Superman is the hard hitter.
That was always the way as far as i remember.
Yeah in the end WW training etc is irrelevant, that is why for example Batman tries his best to be prepared for everything...because he knows that his training and strength has its limits.
Wonder Woman can definitly go toe to toe with Superman because of her Super Strength, speed, training and experience...but Superman simply hits harder than her.
There is nothing wrong with that i think.
WW is the best fighter in the DC universe but not the strongest.
That is what makes the Justice League so interesting, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I don't have to, because DC comics establishing Superman as the hard hitter does not equate him to consistently overpowering every other member of the league.

Depending on the author, sometimes Wonder Woman and Aquaman can match his strength, sometimes not. Superman's combination of flight speed, durability, and strength is what makes him such a hard hitter, but making him the greatest in all three areas is just excessive and not established as fact by DC (it varies by writers). The problem is that as it stands in JL, whatever "training" WW was basically nullified simply by Superman being "unhinged", and Aquaman was tossed aside like nothing, and can only hold an advantage if the plot requires water, i.e. niche role.

Supes can be "hurt" through family, friends, and his values.

So can every other member of the league, so I don't see how this justify him being overwhelmingly more powerful than the rest. I can't see how giving Superman such massive dominance while having the other league members essentially play supporting roles outside of plot necessity for their token support can be good for writers.

Superman doesn’t have to be “depowered” but other league members should’ve been considerably more powerful and effective and match him in at least a few individual areas, even if they don’t have the combination of all of his powers.

 

[DeadPresident]

nope.

+1.

 

[Verick808]

I don't ever recall comicbook WW hilding a blackhole in her fists or moving planets either. Anytime she has fought him on his level it has been a low showing of strength on his part. The only league member that should really be able to go up against Superman is the Flash. And only an experienced Flash with full mastery of the speedforce.

So long as the writers are creative enough the power difference shouldn't be a problem. Same way they keep Batman in the league despite the fact the Aquaman is like a hundred times stronger than him.

 

[afan]

Depends on what it is. If it's a magical enchantment like WW's lasso or blade, then it will affect him like anyone else. If it's a force based on magic, such as Shazam himself, his lightning, Solomon Grundy, or Alan Scott GL, then it will hurt him more than those same forces would if they were not magical. But, a lightning blast from Shazam, which is a magical lightning blast, does not kill Superman like it would a human.

The way I've always viewed it is that an enchanted item or a spell will work on Superman the same as it would anyone else, whereas something that is infused with magical energy will just do more damage than it would otherwise do.

Magic is not a "weakness" of Superman. As you say, magic works on Superman just as it would on anyone else, but may
I add the nature of the enchantment or spell of a physical object, is the key regarding it's affect on the Man of Steel. A sword enchanted to slay all dragons would be no more deadly to Superman than a normal sword.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

The argument that Batman beat Superman in BvS isn't very relevant. First of all it's entirely based on one of the worst weaknesses in superhero lore (a magic space rock is way too specific to be interesting and not create many silly stories). Then we now have the fact that Superman isn't just fast, he's competing with Flash fast. Ergo there's no reason for Batman to hit him with Kryptonite more than once, and the first time only because Superman didn't care what he was doing. So it was a complete plot device defeat in two senses.

He just seems head ans shoulders above the rest of the league, and that's a problem since several of them have no other role than the powerhouse role.

 

[valmont]

I don't ever recall comicbook WW hilding a blackhole in her fists or moving planets either. Anytime she has fought him on his level it has been a low showing of strength on his part. The only league member that should really be able to go up against Superman is the Flash. And only an experienced Flash with full mastery of the speedforce.

So long as the writers are creative enough the power difference shouldn't be a problem. Same way they keep Batman in the league despite the fact the Aquaman is like a hundred times stronger than him.

Wait, you are trying to say that since Superman is stronger than Wonder Woman she can never win?

 

[FunkMiller]

Superman doesn't need to be de-powered at all. You just need to think of creative ways around it.

“I’ve kidnapped all the people you love in the world Superman, and imprisoned them in a lead lined box somewhere secret. If you don’t do exactly what I say, I’ll slaughter them.”

There. Done.