The Dark Knight Nolan needs more imagination.

[Sun_Down]

Batman is a cultural icon. Unfortunately, the films never seem to match the image of said cultural icon.

That's because certain fans will never be pleased. Those fans fail to understand that decades of character development cannot be crammed into a 2 hour movie, or even three 2 hour movies for that matter. Some things, like Bruce and Clark's relationship, will never be fully explored on film because it would take a number of films just to establish what we've been reading in comics for years.

 

[Sun_Down]

But Nolan's Batman isn't really realistic and that's what a lot of detractors don't seem to really get. They keep bringing up realism without ever really comprehending what that means and why it's wrong when frankly, it's completely and utterly moot.

As he once said himself - it's a universe that's credible.

In the same way you can argue Raimi's Spider-man is credible. Sure, nobody is going to be really bitten by a DNA-altered spider and become a super-hero but it was presented in a way in which we could buy into it.

And that is what Nolan is doing.

In the end, if it's not a take you like, then fine but sometimes I just wish people would stop using realism when it's just not a viable argument.

No disrespect meant to you of course, game.

Great post. "Credible" is a much better word. It doesn't mean you have to ditch the fantastic elements (like a man dressing up like a bat), but you have to present those elements in an intelligent fashion. Create a world where people behave like real people would and then add the fantasy and have those people react in a believable manner.

You accept the tights and the super-powers (or in Batman's case, human abilities), but you can still have those things in a smart, believable movie. "Realism" doesn't have to mean "boring" and "faithful" doesn't have to mean "stupid".

 

[Miranda Fox]

Great post. "Credible" is a much better word. It doesn't mean you have to ditch the fantastic elements (like a man dressing up like a bat), but you have to present those elements in an intelligent fashion. Create a world where people behave like real people would and then add the fantasy and have those people react in a believable manner.

You accept the tights and the super-powers (or in Batman's case, human abilities), but you can still have those things in a smart, believable movie. "Realism" doesn't have to mean "boring" and "faithful" doesn't have to mean "stupid".

Word.

 

[Eros]

Great post. "Credible" is a much better word. It doesn't mean you have to ditch the fantastic elements (like a man dressing up like a bat), but you have to present those elements in an intelligent fashion. Create a world where people behave like real people would and then add the fantasy and have those people react in a believable manner.

You accept the tights and the super-powers (or in Batman's case, human abilities), but you can still have those things in a smart, believable movie. "Realism" doesn't have to mean "boring" and "faithful" doesn't have to mean "stupid".

Agreed.

 

[thegameq]

But Nolan's Batman isn't really realistic and that's what a lot of detractors don't seem to really get. They keep bringing up realism without ever really comprehending what that means and why it's wrong when frankly, it's completely and utterly moot.

As he once said himself - it's a universe that's credible.

In the same way you can argue Raimi's Spider-man is credible. Sure, nobody is going to be really bitten by a DNA-altered spider and become a super-hero but it was presented in a way in which we could buy into it.

And that is what Nolan is doing.

In the end, if it's not a take you like, then fine but sometimes I just wish people would stop using realism when it's just not a viable argument.

No disrespect meant to you of course, game.

Yes, but, for all intent and purposes, there was nothing realistic about the SM movies, which i love them for it. All Raimi did was use the Marvel method, i.e., the comicbook.

Realism in the truest sense of the word really doesn't apply to Nolan's film of course. As someone else once said, "it's not like BB is a documentary". Again, I just think a lot of the lingering dissapointment, with Nolan's film has alot to do with the expectations and the way the SM films were handled. Raimi proved it could work, although Donner had done it years ago.

Also, I think the fact that the stylish, fantasy take on Batman has been done already has kind of "hamstrung" the chances of any more fantastical takes on the character--especially after the way the previous franchise ended.

Note to Morgoth: I don't know your history on the BB boards, but you might want to make your post a bit more commentative and less accusatory. Even if the topic is a bit of a rehash, most posters would still at least give you good response.

Cheers.

 

[JStorm]

This is what I don't get: take an ambitous man (billionare), give him the resources that our Batman has, allow him at least five to ten years to train, etc.

Why couldn't this be real?

 

[Eros]

This is what I don't get: take an ambitous man (billionare), give him the resources that our Batman has, allow him at least five to ten years to train, etc.

Why couldn't this be real?

stuff that happend in Batman Begins was not remotely as "real" as you think. It was just less fantastical then others.

 

[JStorm]

stuff that happend in Batman Begins was not remotely as "real" as you think. It was just less fantastical then others.

I didn't ask about BB.

Could a real man with all the resoruces do what our Batman does?

 

[Keyser Sushi]

But Nolan's Batman isn't really realistic and that's what a lot of detractors don't seem to really get. They keep bringing up realism without ever really comprehending what that means and why it's wrong when frankly, it's completely and utterly moot.

As he once said himself - it's a universe that's credible.

In the same way you can argue Raimi's Spider-man is credible. Sure, nobody is going to be really bitten by a DNA-altered spider and become a super-hero but it was presented in a way in which we could buy into it.

And that is what Nolan is doing.

In the end, if it's not a take you like, then fine but sometimes I just wish people would stop using realism when it's just not a viable argument.

No disrespect meant to you of course, game.

Word.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

There comes a point where fans who can look at it subjectively are pretty much preaching to the choir. If people don't get what Nolan's doing by now...well then they're NEVER going to get it! Let them whine. Their noises remind me of squealing veal. Yum!

ROFL!!!

 

[Nepenthes]

I didn't ask about BB.

Could a real man with all the resoruces do what our Batman does?

Are you serious? where do we begin

The FBI. Real world politics and law. Satellite tracking. DNA matching. Bullets. The need to sleep. The laws of physics....


Yeah there are plenty of hero vigilantes in real life, individuals and organisations but they are far less glamorous. If you want to be more specific in your terms, maybe we can find the closest match(es) to 'what Batman does' in real life.

Might be interesting, see how it compares. Give this thread some purpose.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I didn't ask about BB.

Could a real man with all the resoruces do what our Batman does?

More or less, yes.

Some of the specific things that Batman uses are not likely, some of the things he does are not likely; but overall, yes. A person with the time and resources could learn many techniques of fighting, acrobatics, illusionism, escape artistry, criminology, etc.

It would not be exactly our Batman, but the spirit of it would be the same.

 

[JStorm]

Are you serious? where do we begin

The FBI. Real world politics and law. Satellite tracking. DNA matching. Bullets. The need to sleep. The laws of physics....


Yeah there are plenty of hero vigilantes in real life, individuals and organisations but they are far less glamorous. If you want to be more specific in your terms, maybe we can find the closest match(es) to 'what Batman does' in real life.

Might be interesting, see how it compares. Give this thread some purpose.

My point is, for belieablity, a real man could do "what he does" in a real world.

I'm not concerned with who can track him, etc. My point is, a real nam could be a real Batman.

Of course the FBI could catch/stop him. But could a man strike fear into criminals and kick @$$?

Also, sleep is different from person to person.

I'm just having fun here, no harm, no worries.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Ive deleted half this thread of wise ass comments and pics along with attacks.

The OP made a point that many feel the movies aiming for realism is losing some of what made the character beloved in the first place,it's a valid discussion so if you don't want to discuss the points civilly and intelligently don't post.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Aw, you're no fun, Officer Krupke.

 

[JStorm]

Aw, you're no fun, Officer Krupke.

There are two kinds of Hunter's in this world, and one posts pictures of hotties.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Aw, you're no fun, Officer Krupke.

I'm just making sure this isn't a Nolan fan utopia board

There are two kinds of Hunter's in this world, and one posts pictures of hotties.

If only i had more time to devote to my gift

 

[JStorm]

I'm just making sure this isn't a Nolan fan utopia board



If only i had more time to devote to my gift

Less sleep, more hotties.

 

[neobido9999]

I agree with the original poster to an extent, if you completely remove the comic references, what have you got? just another cop film. Its a matter of making the trappings of the comic book charcters (outlandish appearances, the villains plots and obsessions) realistic, not scrapping them. geenerally i think nolan has done that well, his handling of Ra's for example was both a comic book-esque supervillain and a modern style terrorist. Which worked.

However, i dont think Nolan wll be able to pull back form the craziness of a character like the Joker. Even in the batman universe, largely populated by freakish characters, the joker makes people bat (no pun intended) an eyelid

 

[Cinemaman]

As for me, I loved Nolan's version of Scarecrow's look. And the realism stuff rules.

So why Joker won't have changed look in TDK?

1) Nolan already mentioned that he was going with very first version of Joker (Batman #1+The Man WHo Laughs+The Killing Joke).

2) There is nothing to change, only details.

3) Joker is iconic figure instead of Scarecrow.

4) Nolan will go with darker and more frightning Joker than Nicholson's version.

So, INWT.

 

[raybia]

I'm just making sure this isn't a Nolan fan utopia board

Hoonter, what in the bloody hell could possibility be wrong with that?

You dissappoint me, my dear chap. How unfortunate...for YOU.

Now kiss my hand and pledge your alleigence to me...fan boy! BAWHAHAHA!

 

["V"]

That's the one thing that still bugs me. I worry about the Joker, 'cause he didn't even want the Scarecrow to wear his mask, I guess that's why he kept taking it off every five seconds!

I have read this at least a dozen times, but nobody has shown me the evidence when asked!!!!!! Can somebody help me out please?

These poeple need to know that if they are making a comic book movie it is just that. Don't act like it's something to be ashamed of.

What? Chris told me he thought he was making a Shakespeare play.... I'd better go and warn him! Of course, Begins actually followed the comics more than any other Bat film before it. It also had many nods to the fans re-creating many panels in real life. Flass interrogation, Bat signal on the roof (First time in any of the films) and the bat sonar.

Comics are cool, and so are the costumes and fantasy about them. It's all part of it and it's cool!!!

Indeed they are when they are done right. "Batman and Robin fight the goo-active Space Monsters" isn't but "Arkham Asylum" is. I don't think that the Scarecrow's original comic book costume is actually cool, I much prefer the revisionist appearance of him like Begins, which was a damn cool mask.

You don't need all these bloody excuses why a character wear a costume or mask, they just do, and they do 'cause that's part of who they are, that's all the explanation needed.

What is it Bruce Waynes says before donning the mantle? "Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot, so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the night."

Pish! Would have been better if Alfred took him his dinner one day and he was just sat perched on his armchair dressed like a six foot back. A subtle nod the only indication.

Scarecrow is his persona, that's why he dresses that way. Just like the Joker needs to lok like well, the JOKER!

To be honest, if we saw Scarecrow again I think he'd just be wearing his rags as he has completely lost his marbles now. We saw him at an early arc of his character really.

I'm so sck of realism, these are Super heroes, I don't care if Batman doesn't have super powers or not, some of his enemies do and that's beside the point, Batman's still fantasy.

Begins had an actual man-bat in it, that wasn't very realistic. Are you sick of realisim that prevents Batman from jumping fifty feet high and sliding down Dinosuars tails while quipping one liners?

Even with movies like X-men they pulled that crap and ruined them.

X-Men actually needs to break realisim because of the ludicrious super powers that the characters have. People need to be able to fly and survive being shot in the face, Batman doesn't.

So, Chris Nolan, you need to get some imagination and stop making ordinary films like 'Memento' and 'The Prestige' and "Batman Begins".

 

[Miranda Fox]

[quote="V";11099978]So, Chris Nolan, you need to get some imagination and stop making ordinary films like 'Memento' and 'The Prestige' and "Batman Begins".[/quote]

LOL!

About the mask quote - that's interesting, because I've found quite a few people using quotes that turned out to be false. And that really riles me. If you have to make stuff up to support your argument, then maybe you should reevaluate your point.

For those who are curious, the quotes I'm talking about are: The one about the Joker supposedly looking like the playing card and the one where Nolan was supposed to have used Clayface as an example of an unrealistic villian that they would not do in this franchise.

Those are total bull****, please drive on through.

 

["V"]

LOL!

About the mask quote - that's interesting, because I've found quite a few people using quotes that turned out to be false. And that really riles me. If you have to make stuff up to support your argument, then maybe you should reevaluate your point.

For those who are curious, the quotes I'm talking about are: The one about the Joker supposedly looking like the playing card and the one where Nolan was supposed to have used Clayface as an example of an unrealistic villian that they would not do in this franchise.

Those are total bull****, please drive on through.

It's just the old age of story of myth becoming truth. I've seen that Scarecrow mask at least a dozen times, but nobody can provide any evidence to it being said. If it's true, which I personally doubt, then it's good that Nolan has the humility to listen to other people's opinions and accept them if they are correct.

 

[The Sage]

Uh..no. Batman's world is utter fantasy. It has absolutely nothing to do with our reality in any way. When you start grounding fantasy characters in realism you're doing a grave injustice to that character because you're basically neutering them.

I gotta agree here.