The Dark Knight To those who think Nolan -doesn't- get "it".

1)Batman was not that great on his first night out...I repeat BATMAN WAS NOT THAT GREAT ON HIS FIRST NIGHT OUT. I'm not moonlighting as a Batman specialist (not my territory), but I do know the basics. By now, anybody who even attempts to call themselves a Batman fan, has to have either read Year One, stories based on Year One or stories shortly after Year One. Not only was his first night out as a vigilante, a total disaster, but even subsequent events as a more prepared Batman, have led him to dead ends. Like I said, in Dark Victory, it was a very young, non-Robin, Dick Grayson, who solved the crime, not Batman. Dark Victory is essentially Batman's third year (It goes, Year One, Long Halloween, Dark Victory). If in his third year as Batman, he had to have his ward solve the crime, that should tell you something. He isn't infallable. He just appears to be. So please people...stop riding Chris Nolan's idea of a Batman that isn't super at eveything, in his first...what...month? He is Batman maybe for a month in that movie.

2)It is more than implied, that Bruce spent time traveling the world and gaining skills from various sources. Some trained, and some self developed (such as throwing himself into prison to fight thugs). Just because the movie never shows it, doesn't mean the movie abandoned the idea. Ra's made it pretty clear that Bruce spent years doing other forms of training, prior to their meeting.
 
blind_fury said:
That's the problem. Batman studied criminology long before he became Batman. He was preparing to become the world's greatest detective since he was a boy. While other superheros were playing spin the bottle Bruce Wayne was learning escape techniques from magicians and forensics from retired detectives. That's what makes Batman the best crimefighter in the world. He has perfected most of his skills in crimefighting since he was boy LONG before he meets Ras Al Ghul or becomes Batman. Even as a rookie he's better than the guys you see on CSI. They've been studying crime for 4 or 6 years in a college classroom. Bruce Wayne has been studying far more advanced concepts since he was a child without spring breaks or lazy Sundays. By his first night out as Batman he understands criminal element far better than most retired cops.

I didn't see that in Year One. In his first night out he was scouting the criminal element, trying to get a feel for what is to come.


No. The movie shows Ras Al Ghul as Batmans only mentor. There is little to no indication of Bruce Wayne's crimefighting studies from other sources. The movie makes Ras Al Ghul central to Bruce becoming Batman and that's simply an insult to Batman fans. It looks like Bruce know how to streetfight then thanks to Ras Al Ghul he learns the majority of skills he'll need to become Batman. That's a major disservice to the character. Bruce Wayne learns to be Batman from dozens of varied, specialized sources spread throughout the world. It takes alot more than ninja mysticism and a big bank account to become Batman.

Like mentioned before he clearly knew his stuff before going off with the League Of Shadows. Remember Batman begins was non linear mostly. Who's to say Lady Shiva wont show up down the line?

It still looks cumbersome. Batman doesn't look like he is able to do acrobatic moves or move quickly. No amount of armor is going to save Batman if he can't move gracefully.

dude love said:
It's a work in progress
 
Okay . . . how many here actually read any Batman comics before seeing the '89
Burton Batman?
 
I think he/she was refering to the fact that people are erroneously associating traits with a young Batman, that he never had. If people actually followed the books, and not just forum banter, old Tim Burton movies and the animated series, you would get more than people who say "But his armor makes him look encumbered" or "how come he isn't an awesome detective yet?" These are all questions that wouldn't be posed, if people in this thread, actually read Batman. I can honestly say, that back in the 80's, I read very little Batman compared to now, but I at least did myself the favor of brushing up on the character. In the least...people can read Wikipedia. Sure folks here hate to admit that it's a good source (not flawless, but good) but still...even if you don't read the comics...read the Wiki articles and at least get some decent knowledge...
 
Singer was more restrained and sober with X1. He didn't want the superhero names like Storm and Wolverine, nor did he want the costumes. With X2, he realised it worked and loosened up and made the movie a bit more, for a bit more, for want of a better word, superheroic.

I believe Nolan will do the same with The Dark Knight.
 
Singer and Nolan are two very different people, my friend. However you might have something there with theorizing Nolan might... step it up a notch, and put a little more juice and color in TDK. That's what I'm hoping, personally.
 
batbat_29640 said:
Okay . . . how many here actually read any Batman comics before seeing the '89
Burton Batman?
I was reading Batman comics before the old TV show ever aired, does that count?
 
Bathead said:
I was reading Batman comics before the old TV show ever aired, does that count?
'bows' Yes sir that does indeed count. I like your Gwynplayne avatar btw. Great movie . . . I'd like to see an updated version.
 
I read Bat-comics since 1979, before I saw the Tv series as a kid.
 
batbat_29640 said:
'bows' Yes sir that does indeed count. I like your Gwynplayne avatar btw. Great movie . . . I'd like to see an updated version.
Yes, I like the avatar, too. ICXCNIKA gave me the link to that manip.
Quick question to the group, anyone ever see the 50's movie Dr. Sardonicus? It's somewhat similar, about guy who is disfigured with a permanent grin and goes mad.
 
I haven't...but I should, merely for the amusement of the clever name. Sardonic is actually a term that refers to something sarcastic or humorous. Usually if a person is being sardonic, it means they are a smart ass. So naming a movie Dr.Sardonicus, and having it be about a man disfigured with a grin...is actually pretty clever.
 
Bathead said:
Yes, I like the avatar, too. ICXCNIKA gave me the link to that manip.
Quick question to the group, anyone ever see the 50's movie Dr. Sardonicus? It's somewhat similar, about guy who is disfigured with a permanent grin and goes mad.
I have not . . . I will have to check that out now. Thanks for the word. And yes anyone who has been reading Batman comics before the '89 movie counts. They at least know wtf they are talking about.
 
I think too many people have complex expectations. We want a young Batman.....but he can't make mistakes? I mean....what's the fun in having a rookie Batman who DOES NOT **** up? That'd suck.
 
That's because some comic fans confuse Batman with a god of some sort. The people complaining about his detective skills in his youth, being "sub par" are the same people always saying questionable things like "Batman can beat Wolverine in a fight."
 
Arach Knight said:
That's because some comic fans confuse Batman with a god of some sort. The people complaining about his detective skills in his youth, being "sub par" are the same people always saying questionable things like "Batman can beat Wolverine in a fight."
LOL . . . As I would like to say that Batman could beat Wolverine (just because Bats is my favorite comics charater) I know that it could never happen. Ya can't give that fokker any lasting wounds, he can smell you coming a mile away, and adamantium bones are just too hard for Bats to break. LOL . . . I don't ever want to see those two fight because I don't want to see Bats go out like that.
 
The thing is, being that this is all fictional, any competent writer could come up with ways ANY comic book character could beat any other character. These versus arguments are pointless.
 
That's very true. In every case it will all depend on who the writer favors, or what studio wants what character to be the victor.
 
There's no way Batman or Wolverine would win. It would be a draw. Always is.
 
Bat-God. It's a real love/hate relationship I've got for that one.
 
If anything I think the realism would enhance the franchise and make it more appealing. Sure he might not have wanted Scarecrow to have a mask, but the character ended up having a mask anyways. I look for Joker to be more of a psychopath in The Dark Knight rather than a gangster-type like in Burton's Batman.
 
batbat_29640 said:
LOL . . . As I would like to say that Batman could beat Wolverine (just because Bats is my favorite comics charater) I know that it could never happen. Ya can't give that fokker any lasting wounds, he can smell you coming a mile away, and adamantium bones are just too hard for Bats to break. LOL . . . I don't ever want to see those two fight because I don't want to see Bats go out like that.
..what would happen if Wolvie got blown up by an atomic bomb?

Just askin'.
 
I think Nolan "gets" it.

This movie was far and away better than the previous films. Only my opinion of course, but I like a more realistic aproach to Batman.

Yes, some of the action scenes were confusing, but I think this was done on purpose.

Wayne Manor burnt down. OK. It will be re-built. Moving on.

As far as the suit goes, if they were to put someone in tights, they would look absolutlely ridiculous. The current suit is better than the prievious ones. They are going in the right direction, and I believe it will continue to evolve and improve.

And yes, I have been a fan/reader of comics since 1981.
 
Anita18 said:
..what would happen if Wolvie got blown up by an atomic bomb?

Just askin'.


.... I believe he would go boom.:woot:
 
batbat_29640 said:
Okay . . . how many here actually read any Batman comics before seeing the '89
Burton Batman?
I wasnt reading the comics until I was about 9, before that I just colored in all the girls lips with red marker much to my brothers chagrin :D
But thats how my love affair with comics got started ;)
So I suppose I dont count. Then again I didnt watch the movie until much later, after I was actually interested in Batman.

...and yes, he kicked my arse everytime he found a comic of his I had "Completely ******* ruined!"
 

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