November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

[Anita18]

So? How does this disapprove of my point?

You're using rhetoric. I can too. I have a family member who died much younger than 30 years old, and the family went nearly broke paying for his health. He was insured too. He was clean cut and very spartan in his lifestyle. Unless he was shot full of morphine, he was in constant pain until the day he died.

This doesn't change the fact, you can't legislate math away from a zero sum game.

I'm not sure if I'm disproving your point. Didn't you agree that we have to pay into a system, even if Obamacare isn't the right way to do it? I'm confused.

 

[Fenrir]

What long term are you talking about?

Young people on the margins will opt to pay the fine. They suffer no consequences for not having insurance. They will get it only AFTER the fact, because the law says you can't discriminate on preconditions.

Only if insurance companies sit on their asses and do nothing about it. Insurance contracts with just the bare essentials and premiums that are marginally higher than the imposed fines are one such way to start bringing healthy people into the system. Given the option, young people would prefer to pay these marginally higher premiums and at least get something for their money rather than pay a fine and get nothing back in return at all.

Our population is getting older and more sick. And the youth is more brokeass than ever. This entire scheme is stupid and defeats the entire purpose of a negative sum game.

I don't think it is entirely hopeless. The current economic climate is certainly exacerbating the problem, but the more you put it off, the worse it's going to become.

We deserve the hell we have coming.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Excel]

Healthcare is such a broad issue. We need to engage in healthier lifestyles and preemptive care. These are the long term solutions to the problems.

Tax the hell out of unhealthy junk foods and other unhealthy substances, do the soda bottle size limits (these are good ideas). Get americans living healthier. Make sure Americans get their yearly check ups; go hard on preventative medicine.

 

[Paradoxium]

I'm not sure if I'm disproving your point. Didn't you agree that we have to pay into a system, even if Obamacare isn't the right way to do it? I'm confused.

I agree you need to pay into a negative sum system. Obamacare is not a negative sum system. Maybe it was "intended to be", but that is not the same as actual outcome.

 

[Paradoxium]

Only if insurance companies sit on their asses and do nothing about it. Insurance contracts with just the bare essentials and premiums that are marginally higher than the imposed fines are one such way to start bringing healthy people into the system. Given the option, young people would prefer to pay these marginally higher premiums and at least get something for their money rather than pay a fine and get nothing back in return at all.



I don't think it is entirely hopeless. The current economic climate is certainly exacerbating the problem, but the more you put it off, the worse it's going to become.



Can't argue with that.

Until the economy improves for that demographic, it is not happening. The fine is more attractive than paying premiums. This isn't Massachusetts, you have an array of youths across the country. Not as affluent, not in rich organizations.

The young get screwed first, the older ones will hold on to jobs to pay off the debts and their mortgages they are counting the young to buy (house equity = retirement). The same jobs that the young were suppose to take.

 

[Paradoxium]

To make a negative sum game, you must impose fines that are so crippling that insurance premiums looks attractive. In other words, you need to really punish anyone that doesn't have insurance. Fine them $100,000 or throw them in jail if they are not insured.

 

[Marvolo]

Healthcare is such a broad issue. We need to engage in healthier lifestyles and preemptive care. These are the long term solutions to the problems.

Tax the hell out of unhealthy junk foods and other unhealthy substances, do the soda bottle size limits (these are good ideas). Get americans living healthier. Make sure Americans get their yearly check ups; go hard on preventative medicine.

This will only work if healthy natural food becomes cheaper. Im on a very limited income and i cant afford to buy that all natural organic food. If its between ten frozen pizzas or one healthy meal broke ass people will always pick ten frozen pizzas. Better to eat ten cruddy meals than one great meal and starve the rest of the week.

 

[Excel]

This will only work if healthy natural food becomes cheaper. Im on a very limited income and i cant afford to buy that all natural organic food. If its between ten frozen pizzas or one healthy meal broke ass people will always pick ten frozen pizzas. Better to eat ten cruddy meals than one great meal and starve the rest of the week.

I get this, what are some ideas on how to fix this problem?

 

[Paradoxium]

Stop subsidizing the crap crop known as corn.

 

[wiegeabo]

Stop subsidizing the crap crop known as corn.

x1000

 

[Paradoxium]

Food with the lowest amount of pesticides if you can't afford organics:

- onions
- avocados
- sweet corn
- pineapples
- mango
- sweet peas
- asparagus
- kiwi fruit
- cabbage
- eggplant
- cantaloupe
- watermelon
- grapefruit
- sweet potatoes
- sweet onions

A lot of --berries (blue berries or strawberries) I buy organic, they have the highest concentration of pesticides.

 

[wiegeabo]

To make a negative sum game, you must impose fines that are so crippling that insurance premiums looks attractive. In other words, you need to really punish anyone that doesn't have insurance. Fine them $100,000 or throw them in jail if they are not insured.

Also, isn't a negative sum game supposed to trigger intense competition?

And yet they system is designed to not allow real competition.


That's the major reform that needs to happen. If we had a really competitive environment, costs would fall, the number of doctors and nurses would go up (because more people could afford to go to them, so demand rises), premiums would follow costs.

And then maybe we could get to a point where an Obamacare type system would be sustainable (if it was still even necessary).

 

[ericadawn16]

Employers complain about the costs of healthcare but if they really cared, then they would pressure the government to handle ALL of it and then the employers would have no healthcare expenses at all except lost productivity when workers did need time off.

Since they don't do this, they must just enjoy complaining and/or blaming the government for everything...and probably being in cahoots with the medical business who cares more about money than care.

 

[Fading]

Food with the lowest amount of pesticides if you can't afford organics:

- onions
- avocados
- sweet corn
- pineapples
- mango
- sweet peas
- asparagus
- kiwi fruit
- cabbage
- eggplant
- cantaloupe
- watermelon
- grapefruit
- sweet potatoes
- sweet onions

A lot of --berries (blue berries or strawberries) I buy organic, they have the highest concentration of pesticides.

My mom raised me to somehow enjoy my veggies. I actually looked forward to brocolli, brussel sprouts, carrots, cabbage, ect. So they are good alternatives. Especially if you plan ahead. If you're cooking for yourself, you can make one family sized meal, and make it stretch over the week, if you don't mind microwaving leftovers that is, lol. That's what I did when I first moved out on my own.

I also back sweet potatoes, been loving them lately. Especially when it dawned on me their not just for pie at thanksgiving. Ramen makes a good cheap meal as well. $2 for a 12 pack, toss in some chicken, sauteed onions, and seasonings and it tastes a lot better, and has to atleast be a bit healthier than frozen pizza.

Now on next weeks Hypester dining on a budget show.....(I'm talking cheap food on the political section, I've hit a new low, lol)

 

[Marvolo]

My mom raised me to somehow enjoy my veggies. I actually looked forward to brocolli, brussel sprouts, carrots, cabbage, ect. So they are good alternatives. Especially if you plan ahead. If you're cooking for yourself, you can make one family sized meal, and make it stretch over the week, if you don't mind microwaving leftovers that is, lol. That's what I did when I first moved out on my own.

I also back sweet potatoes, been loving them lately. Especially when it dawned on me their not just for pie at thanksgiving. Ramen makes a good cheap meal as well. $2 for a 12 pack, toss in some chicken, sauteed onions, and seasonings and it tastes a lot better, and has to atleast be a bit healthier than frozen pizza.

Now on next weeks Hypester dining on a budget show.....(I'm talking cheap food on the political section, I've hit a new low, lol)

I love my vegetables and my future kids will eat their vegetables. Some people i know are like vegetables are the devil and they are raising the kids the same way. Make the kid try it if they dont like it wait a few meals later get em to try again. When your young you have to develop a taste for everything especially vegetables. Gotta give it more than one try.

 

[wiegeabo]

Funny enough, some people have a genetic mutation which make broccoli taste bitter to them.

*thread now completely derailed *

 

[Marvolo]

Funny enough, some people have a genetic mutation which make broccoli taste bitter to them.

*thread now completely derailed *

my kids must never know of this. Cant have them arguing with that point. How am i going to argue that?

 

[Fading]

Funny enough, some people have a genetic mutation which make broccoli taste bitter to them.

*thread now completely derailed *

You beat me to it. There's a certain compound in broccoli (and a few other greens like it) that ppl with more of a certain taste receptor can pick up easier. I think it's like 20-25% of the population or so that it tastes far more intense than it does to the rest of us. There are still ways to disguise it though, or other veggie options. I just wish some of the super fruits weren't so expensive. I love the taste of polmygranite, but anything with it in it jumps up in price. It and other berries are high in anti...ya know, just gonna stop there. I'm helping derail this thread way too much, lol. It's not like I'm even some health food junkie.

 

[Doctor Evo]

It's PTC. I believe that, in combination with the ability to taste Benzoate, it can make tomatoes taste rather unpleasant. I have students do this in Zoology 101 lab as part of the unit on genetics. We have special paper infused with these compounds to test whether they're "supertasters."

 

[Anita18]

Healthcare is such a broad issue. We need to engage in healthier lifestyles and preemptive care. These are the long term solutions to the problems.

Tax the hell out of unhealthy junk foods and other unhealthy substances, do the soda bottle size limits (these are good ideas). Get americans living healthier. Make sure Americans get their yearly check ups; go hard on preventative medicine.

I never understood why more processed foods were cheaper than less processed foods. Every time a food goes through a manufacturing process, tax it. Cup O' Noodles ramen would be taxed like, 10x over. That's an easy way to get companies to keep their grubby hands off perfectly good food.

To make a negative sum game, you must impose fines that are so crippling that insurance premiums looks attractive. In other words, you need to really punish anyone that doesn't have insurance. Fine them $100,000 or throw them in jail if they are not insured.

I agree with that. Well, not the jail part and perhaps a $5K fine would do the job. I thought it was simple psychology - to get people to do what you want, either make it cheaper or more convenient. Preferably both.

Also, isn't a negative sum game supposed to trigger intense competition?

And yet they system is designed to not allow real competition.

I always did think the way to real healthcare reform would be to separate health insurance status with employment status. Who said that only fulltime workers were deserving of healthcare? That way we wouldn't be stuck with crappy high-priced plans along with crappier, higher priced plans. We could actually shop around. There would be some competition.

But of course I'm sure every health insurance CEO is deep in the pockets of every company's CEO so that would never happen.

Funny enough, some people have a genetic mutation which make broccoli taste bitter to them.

*thread now completely derailed *

I can smell raw celery, and it's disgusting. Apparently that's a special mutation too.

 

[Marvolo]

I never understood why more processed foods were cheaper than less processed foods. Every time a food goes through a manufacturing process, tax it. Cup O' Noodles ramen would be taxed like, 10x over. That's an easy way to get companies to keep their grubby hands off perfectly good food.


I agree with that. Well, not the jail part and perhaps a $5K fine would do the job. I thought it was simple psychology - to get people to do what you want, either make it cheaper or more convenient. Preferably both.


I always did think the way to real healthcare reform would be to separate health insurance status with employment status. Who said that only fulltime workers were deserving of healthcare? That way we wouldn't be stuck with crappy high-priced plans along with crappier, higher priced plans. We could actually shop around. There would be some competition.

But of course I'm sure every health insurance CEO is deep in the pockets of every company's CEO so that would never happen.


I can smell raw celery, and it's disgusting. Apparently that's a special mutation too.

I thought everyone could smell raw celery?

 

[wiegeabo]

That's what I was gonna say.

 

[Anita18]

I thought everyone could smell raw celery?

Can they? I can smell it across a room when someone is cutting it. Whenever I mention that, they're like, "Huh, really? I don't smell anything!"

 

[Marvolo]

Can they? I can smell it across a room when someone is cutting it. Whenever I mention that, they're like, "Huh, really? I don't smell anything!"

Yeah as far as i know everyone can smell celery however for various reasons some people dont have the sensitivity of smell that others do. You might just be more sensitive to the smell due to psychological and physiological reasons. Also after being exposed to a smell you will reach a saturation point where you dont notice the smell. Cutting a bunch of celery for a period of time after a while you may not notice the smell hence the cutter finding it strange that you find it to be a strong smell.

 

[Kelly]

Celery smells?

It's the reason I don't drink V-8 vegetable juice....that's nasty.