Now that America's superheroes have been "federalized" who will they answer to?

[Doc Destruction]

I really just want to know who Rhodey's working for.

Spoiler

The Skrull Empire!

 

[PhotoJones]

Heh. I actually hope that's true.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So we're only talking the Avengers now? Stark has the ability to deputize any registered hero as a SHIELD Agent, therefore they answer to him.

We were talking about the Initiative, as far as I know. The program to install superhero teams in every state in the USA. That answers to the Commission on Superhuman Activities, not Tony Stark or SHIELD.

 

[PhotoJones]

Officially?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

By all indications. But no, I'm not 100% sure because, as we've noted, the hierarchy of the Initiative hasn't been outlined yet.

 

[necross20]

I really hope they answer to Tony because the idea of the goverment single-handedly calling the shots makes my skin crawl.

 

[PhotoJones]

The idea of one fallible man calling the shots doesn't make your skin crawl? You must be a Republican.

 

[BrianWilly]

And the idea of hundreds of superbeings all answering to one single person doesn't?

EDIT: DAMN YOU

 

[PhotoJones]

Dude, you were totally 6 minutes late. Damn you.

 

[Dread]

What I've worked out about Camp Hammond's leadership is basically:

- Gyrich is a liaison reporting on Camp Hammond's activities to the CSA--essentially, he's acting as on-site oversight.
- Rhodey is actually in charge of the base's operations. Don't know if he's SHIELD or CSA or just appointed by Tony somehow.
- Hank Pym is some kind of cross between administrator and chief scientist for R&D--I think I'm the least clear on his position, to be honest.
- Von Blitzschlag is the next-highest guy in the research and development arm of Camp Hammond after Pym.
- Justice is the head counselor for the Initiative's trainees.
- The Gauntlet was the head of the training department for the trainees. That position is going to Taskmaster now that Gauntlet's out of commission.

Those all make sense to me based on what I've seen. I think the hierarchy goes something like Rhodey/Gyrich, Pym, Von Blitzschlag, Justice, Gauntlet/Taskmaster, but I'm not sure.

Good attention to detail.

Frankly, not only is the chain of command murky post CW with the Initiative, but there even are holes with the SHRA depending on the writers. A YEAR later. Why the editors didn't figure out a simple memo to pass around so nothing gets garbled is beyond me.

Of course, this also is a Marvel whose EIC uses events to put back "genies" that got out of control on his watch.

- Joe Q whined about too many mutants, thus, "M-Day". Well, it was HIS call to put Morrison on X-Men and have him run wild for years, amping the mutant number beyond 90's levels to treat the race comparisons seriously. And so long as he was there writing, and his comics sold in the Top 10, Marvel supported him. Joe could have given Morrison mandates, but instead rode with his hype and only got scared after he left. Then he pretends that all of the mutie mess happened "before".

- Joe Q feels the Spider-Man marriage is the worst thing to happen to the character, responsible for all of said character's ills. Well, when Joe Q became EIC, the Parkers had been successfully, if awkwardly, seperated. MJ had been kidnapped, presumed dead, and then shell-shocked upon return. The pair split and Peter was free to "see other people". If Joe hated the marriage so much, this was a golden chance. But, what happened? 2002, and a movie. So faster than you can say, "Sell out!", JMS pulls the U-Turn and gets them back into bliss. So the next time Joe blames the marriage on other people when he is bashed for OMD, remember this factoid.

- Not similar, but I love the editorial logic here: Spider-Man Married is a no-no. So is Spider-Man Divoriced, Widowed, or Amicably Seperated. But a Spider-Man who makes deals with Satan? Priceless! A character defined by very real, very human experiences is ending his marriage with a very phony, very comic-booky mystical ordeal.

Barring all this, seeing why Marvel is basically allowing writers to do the grunt work of sorting through the Post-CW chains of command and SHRA laws isn't far fetched.

 

[PhotoJones]

Not similar, but I love the editorial logic here: Spider-Man Married is a no-no. So is Spider-Man Divoriced, Widowed, or Amicably Seperated. But a Spider-Man who makes deals with Satan? Priceless!

Who said anything about Peter making the deal? Everyone knows it's MJ's doing.

 

[Dread]

Who said anything about Peter making the deal? Everyone knows it's MJ's doing.

And isn't that SO much better? Blaming a woman?

Seriously, Spider-Man would be miles better had they invested time and talent into his supporting cast, not chugging from one shark-hopping event to the next, editors who actually LIKE women and marriage and don't feel a social life ends with an "I do", realize that fans remember Spidey's human stories, like telling a dying cancer kid his life's story, than overblown crap like THE OTHER and OMD. Instead, they have done exactly what you did in your quip; they blamed MJ. The woman. Spider-Man was just fine until he grew up and married his sweetheart. He's only best when he is a bumbling man-child-feeb for the rest of his life. And sure, we have that in USM that still sells very well, but, um, it doesn't count.

I'm surprised they didn't just "undo" the marriage the same way Johnny Storm's marriace to Alicia Masters was undone; just say his wife was an evil alien bent on conquest. Women are evil.

In GLA, Slott makes an off handed quip about many comic writers being aging men who "didn't get much action in high school, or college"! It is odd how some stunts almost prove that wisecrack right. Spider-Man can't grow up if the men writing him never grow up.

I know I took your joke too seriously. I just had a rant in me.

 

[PhotoJones]

And isn't that SO much better? Blaming a woman?

It worked for Adam.

Seriously, Spider-Man would be miles better had they invested time and talent into his supporting cast, not chugging from one shark-hopping event to the next, editors who actually LIKE women and marriage and don't feel a social life ends with an "I do", realize that fans remember Spidey's human stories, like telling a dying cancer kid his life's story, than overblown crap like THE OTHER and OMD. Instead, they have done exactly what you did in your quip; they blamed MJ. The woman. Spider-Man was just fine until he grew up and married his sweetheart. He's only best when he is a bumbling man-child-feeb for the rest of his life. And sure, we have that in USM that still sells very well, but, um, it doesn't count.

I'm surprised they didn't just "undo" the marriage the same way Johnny Storm's marriace to Alicia Masters was undone; just say his wife was an evil alien bent on conquest. Women are evil.

In GLA, Slott makes an off handed quip about many comic writers being aging men who "didn't get much action in high school, or college"! It is odd how some stunts almost prove that wisecrack right. Spider-Man can't grow up if the men writing him never grow up.

I know I took your joke too seriously. I just had a rant in me.

You have absolutely no sense of humor, do you? Anyway, I agree with you. Marvel's been ****ing up Spider-Man for going on 20 years now, with only a few bright fews along the way. Check out the Panini UK thread I made. Those are the kinds of stories I want to read in my Spider-Man books. I need to find a way to get those comics over here.

 

[Dread]

It worked for Adam.

And I bet when Cain slew Abel, he blamed that on Eve, too.

You have absolutely no sense of humor, do you? Anyway, I agree with you. Marvel's been ****ing up Spider-Man for going on 20 years now, with only a few bright fews along the way. Check out the Panini UK thread I made. Those are the kinds of stories I want to read in my Spider-Man books. I need to find a way to get those comics over here.

I have a sense of humor, like I said, I just had that rant in me.

The irony is that Spider-Man has been married for OVER 20 years, so by embracing the pre-marriage status quo, they risk alienating a slew of current readers. And that wouldn't seem as comical if DC wasn't already doing things like that line-wide, and seeing sagging collective sales as a result.

I'm sure Slott will do well with ASM, but that doesn't mean the OMD ride to get there hasn't been **** soup.

To keep things on-topic, heroes of The Initiative answer to the President and the United States, and the U.S. arm on metahuman relations is the CSA, which has historically flexed from corrupt to REALLY corrupt. SHIELD are international peace-keepers, but have functions that overlap with the CSA and other U.S. law enforcement and they quite often work hand in hand. Tony Stark is head of SHIELD, but as an American and a corporate tycoon, and ex federal figure, he answers to the President to some degree as well. SHIELD seems to have the freedom to disobey the President when they feel they need to; during The Collective saga, the President ordered Maria Hill to fire a nuke and kill the threat, even if it meant killing the Avengers. Hill refused, and wasn't tried for treason. Thus, Iron Man could disobey the President if he felt he had to, while Gyrich can't and likely wouldn't. Least directly.

Both the CSA and SHIELD have had periods of embracing criminals, being infested by spies (whether HYDRA, LMD's, Skrulls, etc), or manipulated by other forces. Seeing them do so here isn't unexpected.

Anyway, the answer to "who do the federal heroes answer to", I guess the President & CSA officiers would be their real bosses. They also can be organized and led by SHIELD agents, but the CSA could be able to overrule them by going, "These are Americans, play ball or I order them to walk", that sort of thing. It merely reinforces the lesson that the reason life sucks is because humans insist on making it so.

 

[necross20]

The idea of one fallible man calling the shots doesn't make your skin crawl? You must be a Republican.

Im not particularly inclined towards any political party, they are all morons and all of their beliefs stem from a need to get more votes, nothing more.
But, this isn't about my political standing or the party/group I support, it's about the stupidity of the goverments as a whole and their attitude towards how things work.
If one of the supes follows an order issued from high up, he does his job etc etc. If there is a mistake, the hero is blamed not the person who issued the order. If the hero is at fault, he should be blamed and probably will be. If the person issuing the order is to blame, he/she won't be blamed. The blame will be lost in one massive **** pit they so often throw things into.
Cap mentioned that the Goverment could start dictating who the bag guys are, let's be fair, the goverment dictating the terms of being a hero isn't always a good idea. They thought the Sentinels were a smart move.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Tony's thought a lot of bad ideas were good ones himself. I'm still not seeing an advantage to having him in control of a superhero army as opposed to the government's having control of it.

 

[necross20]

Tony in spite of all his faults isn't corrupt. He'll do what he thinks is best for everyone, more often than not anyway. He can be an ass, no question.
The goverment only ever do things that suit them and their personal agenda. It's easier to corrupt an entire goverment than it is to corrupt one man.

 

[PhotoJones]

Sometimes bureaucracy is best.

I can't believe I said that.

 

[necross20]

Neither can I.

 

[PhotoJones]

If it's the alternative to a monarchy, then there's no question.

 

[necross20]

That I agree with, the people need a say.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Tony in spite of all his faults isn't corrupt. He'll do what he thinks is best for everyone, more often than not anyway. He can be an ass, no question.
The goverment only ever do things that suit them and their personal agenda. It's easier to corrupt an entire goverment than it is to corrupt one man.

What do you consider corrupt? Tony endangered innocent people by hiring the Titanium Man to attack Washington, DC so that he could have something to point to to bolster support for the SHRA. Hell, the whole Civil War: Frontline series was all about the underhanded means Tony used to build what he's got now. Government officials have been indicted for less.

 

[necross20]

Fair point, and like I said I agree that Tony makes very questionable choices sometimes.
It was the goverment who initiated the Weapon X programme. The goverment who intitiated the Sentinal programme. The goverment of Genosha were responsible for the slavery and (I think) torture and ultimate murder of the whole Island. The goverment allowed the prime minister of Latveria to make deals with the Machinesmith, which prmopted Fury's Secret War.
There's probably more. Im just saying that, personally I think Tony would make a better leader of the America's supes than the goverment would. It's rare any member of the goverment will be present for an altercation between super powers, they never do any of the work to appreciate how it really is sometimes. I guess I don't think they have enough perspective.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But the difference is that Tony is one man who can be held accountable for his own actions. The government is a bunch of people that's constantly changing. How do we know if this is the same government who did half of those things you just mentioned? The government's always going to be corrupt, don't get me wrong, but how do we know they're necessarily any more corrupt at this moment than Tony?

 

[PhotoJones]

As far as the comics go, Tony is by far the more noble of the two. His intentions are pure, even if his methods could be seen as questionable. That said, this is still comic books, and in the real world, I would never put my faith and support in one man like that.