NSA creates national database of phonecalls...major phone companies help

[sinewave]

alright, i'll bite. huh? ^

 

[dcbmp]

i love how this partisan hack tries to make it seem that this is something only liberals are pissed about. in reality, the majority of people, liberals, conservatives and moderates are extremely unhappy with it. hell, newt gingrich and joe scarborough have spoken out against it. let's get real here, 65% (and steadily climbing) of american citizens agree that the bush administration is doing a horrible job running this country. who the hell has gaul to claim it's only a problem with liberals? the majority of the country is calling for change and it's going to happen this fall.

I hate do dissapoint you but Bush is fighting back. He's making a speech on illegal immigration on monday and a poll by the Post(USA Today, or the Times I forget) says that 65% of Americans say IT'S OKAY that the NSA is collecting information.

 

[sinewave]

I hate do dissapoint you but Bush is fighting back. He's making a speech on illegal immigration on monday and a poll by the Post(USA Today, or the Times I forget) says that 65% of Americans say IT'S OKAY that the NSA is collecting information.

trust me, this is strongly opposed by ALL political affilations. it's not solely a liberal issue.

 

[Spider-Bite]

In light of this new revelation about the wiretapping, a new large majority now opposes the illegal wiretpaping.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12771821/site/newsweek/

 

[sinewave]

In light of this new revelation about the wiretapping, a new large majority now opposes the illegal wiretpaping.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12771821/site/newsweek/

now maybe conservatives and bush followers will stop trying to paint this as only a concern to those on the left. the bush administration is out of step with the rest of america. i really hope the democrats take over the house this fall and make an attempt to impeach bush.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I hate do dissapoint you but Bush is fighting back. He's making a speech on illegal immigration on monday and a poll by the Post(USA Today, or the Times I forget) says that 65% of Americans say IT'S OKAY that the NSA is collecting information.

oooohhh. He's fighting back now huh? He's about to give a speech huh?

It isn't going to make any difference. A week from now I predict his approval ratings will be down to 28%. Political analysts all agree now that this slump is not something he can just talk his way out of. There are two possible ways to help him get out of this slump.

A. There is a dramatic change in his positions. He flip flops and changes his positions on issues.

B. Something highly unexpected happens, like a terrorist attack, and he were to do a good job dealing with the aftermath, or he were to suddenly catch Osama Bin Laden.

A. Could possibly hurt him even though more, by turning off his hard core base. Not much about Bush has really changed in the last couple years, other than American's views of him. Basically poeple thought this was what America needed, but then after we got him, they realized Dems were right when they said Bush is not good for America.

 

[dcbmp]

now maybe conservatives and bush followers will stop trying to paint this as only a concern to those on the left. the bush administration is out of step with the rest of america. i really hope the democrats take over the house this fall and make an attempt to impeach bush.

How MANY times do I have to say this It WAS NOT ILLEGAL. The NSA program DOES NOT involve listening or recording conversations. They are LOOKING AT the accounts of NUMBERS AND PHONE-CALL PATTERNS, not to perverts having phone sex.

Clintion's Echelo program was FAR more intrusive. Again the Washington Post poll says that 65% of Americans have no problem with this. If an A-bomb went off becasue we didn't do this, ha ha, all the liberals and ACLU members would be put in camps. And you'd really have big brother.

I'm glad far left liberals were bnot around during WWII. Imagine, we lose 20,000 Americans at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. we are no closer to victory, and we still have the war in Europe. Why is Henry Stimson still in charge? Why is Marshall still in power? In fact, why isn't Roosevelt impeached? The president has violated basic freedoms in our Constitution. German suspects were tried in secret (often without military uniforms) and then killed. the Japanese are held in camps, and there was a cover up of the Cobra disaster in Normandy. See how S T U P I D liberals whinning is?

 

[rdh007]

Comparing any of this to World War II demeans the comparer (that's like the "decider") and the brave men who fought in it.

Oh, and monitoring domestic calls is illegal.

 

[Darthphere]

Wait, I thought Echelon was only put in place to capture key words and phrases like, "kill President" or "Bomb on plane"?


Ahhh Third Echelon. Fifth Freedom for everyone in this thread.

 

[celldog]

That all depends. I can switch my phone usage to Qwest. They've proven to be the most friendly to the Bill of Rights.

And so will the terrorist cells.

 

[celldog]

How MANY times do I have to say this It WAS NOT ILLEGAL. The NSA program DOES NOT involve listening or recording conversations. They are LOOKING AT the accounts of NUMBERS AND PHONE-CALL PATTERNS, not to perverts having phone sex.

Clintion's Echelo program was FAR more intrusive. Again the Washington Post poll says that 65% of Americans have no problem with this. If an A-bomb went off becasue we didn't do this, ha ha, all the liberals and ACLU members would be put in camps. And you'd really have big brother.

I'm glad far left liberals were bnot around during WWII. Imagine, we lose 20,000 Americans at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. we are no closer to victory, and we still have the war in Europe. Why is Henry Stimson still in charge? Why is Marshall still in power? In fact, why isn't Roosevelt impeached? The president has violated basic freedoms in our Constitution. German suspects were tried in secret (often without military uniforms) and then killed. the Japanese are held in camps, and there was a cover up of the Cobra disaster in Normandy. See how S T U P I D liberals whinning is?

Save your breath, dude. These yahoos already have there minds made up. And if an A-Bomb goes off in Kansas, they'll be the first ones saying "BUSH LIED!" "BUSH KNEW!!" "WHY DIDN'T HE CONNECT THE DOTS??"
Libs want there power back so badly, they are willing to tear down this President and give our enemies the edge. Pitiful and dispicable.

FDR DID WHAT WAS NECCESSARY!! Where are democrats like him??? They don't exist anymore!!

 

[Spider-Bite]

How MANY times do I have to say this It WAS NOT ILLEGAL. The NSA program DOES NOT involve listening or recording conversations. They are LOOKING AT the accounts of NUMBERS AND PHONE-CALL PATTERNS, not to perverts having phone sex.

Clintion's Echelo program was FAR more intrusive. Again the Washington Post poll says that 65% of Americans have no problem with this. If an A-bomb went off becasue we didn't do this, ha ha, all the liberals and ACLU members would be put in camps. And you'd really have big brother.

I'm glad far left liberals were bnot around during WWII. Imagine, we lose 20,000 Americans at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. we are no closer to victory, and we still have the war in Europe. Why is Henry Stimson still in charge? Why is Marshall still in power? In fact, why isn't Roosevelt impeached? The president has violated basic freedoms in our Constitution. German suspects were tried in secret (often without military uniforms) and then killed. the Japanese are held in camps, and there was a cover up of the Cobra disaster in Normandy. See how S T U P I D liberals whinning is?

your completely wrong. first off I provided a link to a poll. 41% support it, and over 50% oppose it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12771821/site/newsweek/
secondly they are listening in on phone calls without warrants and that is illegal according to the constitution. they collected data on millions, but so far we don't know how many they listen to. Clinton got the warrants like he was supposed to, because he had nothing to hide. He was only using it to protect the country, and the VISA court approves them when they are for protecting the country. The only possible reason Bush could be doing this behind their backs is because he's using it for some other purpose that the VISA court would never allow.

You do know what a wire tap is right? that's not looking at records. that's listening to phone calls and recording them. That's why it's called a wire tap.

 

[sinewave]

How MANY times do I have to say this It WAS NOT ILLEGAL. The NSA program DOES NOT involve listening or recording conversations. They are LOOKING AT the accounts of NUMBERS AND PHONE-CALL PATTERNS, not to perverts having phone sex.

Clintion's Echelo program was FAR more intrusive. Again the Washington Post poll says that 65% of Americans have no problem with this. If an A-bomb went off becasue we didn't do this, ha ha, all the liberals and ACLU members would be put in camps. And you'd really have big brother.

I'm glad far left liberals were bnot around during WWII. Imagine, we lose 20,000 Americans at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. we are no closer to victory, and we still have the war in Europe. Why is Henry Stimson still in charge? Why is Marshall still in power? In fact, why isn't Roosevelt impeached? The president has violated basic freedoms in our Constitution. German suspects were tried in secret (often without military uniforms) and then killed. the Japanese are held in camps, and there was a cover up of the Cobra disaster in Normandy. See how S T U P I D liberals whinning is?

first of all, i did not claim it was illegal to collect phone records from private citizens. it could be, but it depends on what laws you're referring to and what they did with those records. for instance, the lawyer for qwest communications, the one telecommunications company that refused the governement's request to hand over phone records, claimed the following, "these requests violated the privacy requirements of the Telecommunications Act." regardless of the legality of it, i still don't like the idea of the government abusing its power and monitoring my private life. that's my choice. i'm afraid that if i don't fight for my rights on even possibly borderline issue like this one, that they'll continue to attempt to remove more and more freedoms from the american citizens. that's not right, no matter how you try to paint it.

second, how the hell is someone going to drop an a-bomb on kansas with out us being aware of them acquiring or building one? that's a little extreme.

third, you're still assuming that the only people complaining about this are those of us on the left. not true. liberals, centrists and conservatives are all speaking up against it, as i reference in earlier posts (newt gingrich and joe scarborough, for instance). this is the very definition of "big governement", in that the federal government is taking it upon themselves to sneak around behind the backs of the american citizens and monitoring their private lives. isn't one of the tennets of the republican mantra supposed to be a smaller federal government and more power to the individual states? as spider-bite said, clinton was able to wire-tap americans legally by gaining the proper approval from the FISA courts. bush did not.

i'm not even going to respond to your remarks on WWII as i find them to be ridiculous.

 

[sinewave]

Save your breath, dude. These yahoos already have there minds made up. And if an A-Bomb goes off in Kansas, they'll be the first ones saying "BUSH LIED!" "BUSH KNEW!!" "WHY DIDN'T HE CONNECT THE DOTS??"
Libs want there power back so badly, they are willing to tear down this President and give our enemies the edge. Pitiful and dispicable.

FDR DID WHAT WAS NECCESSARY!! Where are democrats like him??? They don't exist anymore!!

check the polls, dude. 65% of all americans disapprove of the job the bush administration is doing. that's not just liberals, that's everyone. the only whinning i see around here is coming from the bush supporters because everyone else has the gaul to challenge our president and want to keep all of our freedoms intact. how horrible.

 

[Darthphere]

The NSA doesnt roll like that son.

 

[celldog]

check the polls, dude. 65% of all americans disapprove of the job the bush administration is doing. that's not just liberals, that's everyone. the only whinning i see around here is coming from the bush supporters because everyone else has the gaul to challenge our president and want to keep all of our freedoms intact. how horrible.

Yeah......I'm pissed at him too!! But not for trying to watch our backs!!! His immigrant crap and border security stinks!! And if you ask the average schmo on the street, they don't mind the surveilance!! We needed this kind of crap before 911.


I'm also tired of him rolling over for the libs on drilling in Alaska and building refineries in our own country!! Screw the spotted owl!!!! We need to stop being so dependent on Islamic countries and terrorist nations for oil!!!

 

[celldog]

But as pissed as I am, I still ain't voting for a lib.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah......I'm pissed at him too!! But not for trying to watch our backs!!! His immigrant crap and border security stinks!! And if you ask the average schmo on the street, they don't mind the surveilance!! We needed this kind of crap before 911.


I'm also tired of him rolling over for the libs on drilling in Alaska and building refineries in our own country!! Screw the spotted owl!!!! We need to stop being so dependent on Islamic countries and terrorist nations for oil!!!

Truly, the words of a dumbass.

 

[Flexo]

Truly, the words of a dumbass.

I can't tell if Celldog is being serious or just posting as a caricature of an ultra-conservative.

 

[Darthphere]

I can't tell if Celldog is being serious or just posting as a caricature of an ultra-conservative.

He's serious, I urge you to find the United 93 thread over at Misc. Movies and read his thoughts....mindblowing.

 

[Flexo]

He's serious, I urge you to find the United 93 thread over at Misc. Movies and read his thoughts....mindblowing.

I'd like to maintain my ignorance on this matter, then.

 

[celldog]

You got nothing!! That's what you guys always do. Resort to name calling..... "dumbass" "idiot" ...... you crack me up.

You guys want to be protected but then won't give the government (or at least a Republican administration) the ability to protect. Bill clinton did this and more!!! And we were not at war then!!! What was his excuse??? God bless FDR for having the balls to do what he knew was right to win that war. If he hadn't, none of us might never have been born because we probably would have lost!!

Tell me.....what is the lib plan to protect us?? Go to court for a warrant "every time"??? Do you realize how fast some leads can grow cold??? How fast these Islamic maniacs can move?? Personally, I want my government agents to be able to stay on that lead "immediately" ...NOT FRIGGIN' TOMORROW!!

Let tell you something my friends. If a nuke goes off, we will have marshall law!! Do you want that???? You guys are being a penny wise and a dollar foolish. Personally, I look at this the same way I view airport screening. I got pulled out of line for a random once. I even missed my flight. But I realized what kind of world we live in now and didn't gripe. I was more pissed at 19 hijackers that made all of this necessary. And if they checked me, they are checking others, too. They are doing their jobs. Yes they went thru my "private" luggage. But guess what??? I had nothing to hide. If you aren't having discussions with Hakim on blowing up the Capitol, you got nothing to fear from Uncle Sam!

 

[Darthphere]

Bill Clinton did this and more? Is that your argument for everything? its quite tired and old. The funny thing about Clinton's Echelon plan was, *gasp* He told us about it. He didnt hide it from us like this Administration is hiding this program. You keep using the excuse about us complaining saying this: "If you aren't having discussions with Hakim on blowing up the Capitol, you got nothing to fear from Uncle Sam!" Youre right, we have nothing to hide, but why does the Administration find it necessary to hide this program? These are questions you need to ask yourself. If its helping us and the country why hide it? im sure we would all love to see how theyre "protecting" us. If it isnt such a bad thing, why the necessity to deny/hide this program?

 

[Whirlysplat]

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060511052409990008&ncid=NWS00010000000001
Short: The NSA has is putting together a national database of phone calls of tens of millions of American citizens. Bush refuses to discuss it. 1984, here we come!

senses going crazy

OMG Bush

- Whirly

 

[sinewave]

celldog, do you realize that everyone to the left of you is not a liberal? from some of the things you've said on these boards i'd say that you and others with the same outlook make up about 10-15% of the american population, at best. on top of that, some of the points you try to make are ridiculous and based solely on your twisted speculation. i don't believe immigration is anything more than a wedge issue that the republcans are trying to use to sway voters to their side or take attention away from more important issues, much like they used gay marriage in the '04 presidential election. karl rove is a smart, but slimey guy and he realized how to sway voters who might still be undecided. i'll give him credit for that, but it's only helping to tear this country apart and create a class war. it's pretty disappointing to hear someone say some of the things you've said. it makes me feel even less secure about our educational system.