Official 2008 MLB thread

[ih8nyy]

Well if Hank said that division winners are irrelevant... or that AL teams should replace NL teams with poorer records... I agree with you he is a ******... and Thank God a ****** is running the New York Yankees.

Lets be PC here. Hank Steinbrenner is "Handi-Capable".

 

[BlackLantern]

Hank was complaining about division winners in both leagues and how teams in weaker divisions get in the post-season.....basically his position is that the teams with the best records should be in the post-season, and to hell with the division winners....

 

[ih8nyy]

Hank was complaining about division winners in both leagues and how teams in weaker divisions get in the post-season.....basically his position is that the teams with the best records should be in the post-season, and to hell with the division winners....

If he wasn't complaining about something I wouldn't believe he was really a Steinbrenner. It's in his blood.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Phillies are back dooring this thing... I mean they haven't beaten a playoff team with over 90 wins yet... they don't belong in there.

So what team belongs in the World Series from the NL?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I agree. Philly fans are a disgrace... they are the only reasons why I hate their teams so much. Giant fans at least have some class... Philly fans are disgusting.

seriously, what bastion of upscale fans do you belong to? Please, please, please say it's the Mets....

Hey I never said the Mets deserved a chamionship either. Phillies are back dooring this thing... I mean they haven't beaten a playoff team with over 90 wins yet... they don't belong in there.

sounds like you're getting the excuse machine ready just in case a division rival takes home a title. Granted I dont really want to see Philly win either ( I live in the area now and they'd become even more insufferable) but if they beat the Rays, its legit. That team slapped around the AL's best all season and in the playoffs. The Phils had no control over the Cubs, at full strength, predictably crapping the bed so it's just a loser's lament to try and diminish them getting to the series.

 

[Dark Donnie]

Hey I never said the Mets deserved a chamionship either. Phillies are back dooring this thing... I mean they haven't beaten a playoff team with over 90 wins yet... they don't belong in there.

Your logic is so flawed that it's almost not even worth responding to. So let me get this straight The Phillies don't deserve to be in the World Series cause they haven't beaten anyone over 90 Wins? If they do win it's fluke? What about if the Rays win...that would have to be a fluke also then right? They had didn't have to play The Angels(best team in the AL) just like the Phillies didn't have to play the Cubs. The Phillies beat one of the hotter teams in the league in The Dodgers, and a struggling Brewers team. If the series' had gone to 7 games then I might somewhat agree with you, but they didn't. The Phillies won pretty convincingly. They have no choice who they play. Baseball, especially playoff baseball is about momentum...and The Phillies had that throughout the first two rounds.

The Brewers and Dodgers are better than decent, but not by much.

But to say their entire fan base including Donnie (who is obviously not the stereotypical Philly fan) don't deserve to see their team win a championship is ******ed.

Appreciated

A team where pretty much half their fans jumped on the bandwagon only the last couple of years... yeah they don't deserve it. I apologize to Donnie if he was a life long Phillie fan... but the majority of those fans don't deserve it.

Any teams fanbase will jump if the team begins to win it's commonsense. The Phillies hadn't been to the playoffs since 1993 before last year, obviously there won't be as many fans. It would be like that with alot of towns. I've been seriously following baseball and The Phillies since a little before 1993 so I have the right to cheer this team on in the WS.

 

[FaT_tONle]

seriously, what bastion of upscale fans do you belong to? Please, please, please say it's the Mets....



sounds like you're getting the excuse machine ready just in case a division rival takes home a title. Granted I dont really want to see Philly win either ( I live in the area now and they'd become even more insufferable) but if they beat the Rays, its legit. That team slapped around the AL's best all season and in the playoffs. The Phils had no control over the Cubs, at full strength, predictably crapping the bed so it's just a loser's lament to try and diminish them getting to the series.

Whatever... Mets are rubbish... Philly is a better ball club... I'll admit it... whoopdie doo... they won a mediocre division... a God awful League... sometimes the breaks go your way... now if they had to go through the cream of the crop... LAD AND ChC... maybe I'd give credit where it is due. As of now the represent a terrible league that had one elite team all year.

As far as beating the Rays... I'll steal a quote from Steward Denethor of Gondor (LOTR: ROTK)... "that depends on the manner of their victory..."

Your logic is so flawed that it's almost not even worth responding to. So let me get this straight The Phillies don't deserve to be in the World Series cause they haven't beaten anyone over 90 Wins? If they do win it's fluke? What about if the Rays win...that would have to be a fluke also then right? They had didn't have to play The Angels(best team in the AL) just like the Phillies didn't have to play the Cubs. The Phillies beat one of the hotter teams in the league in The Dodgers, and a struggling Brewers team. If the series' had gone to 7 games then I might somewhat agree with you, but they didn't. The Phillies won pretty convincingly. They have no choice who they play. Baseball, especially playoff baseball is about momentum...and The Phillies had that throughout the first two rounds.

I said that if the Phillies beat the Rays assuming the Rays actually play the baseball they are capable of playing and have played in October thus far then I'll give them respect... and don't talk about the Angels/Rays not meeting... that logic is even more flawed... because then you are basically comparing beating LA Dodgers to beating the freaking defending World Champion Red Sox. And TB was probably the best team in the A.L this year anyways... how could it be a fluke?

Any teams fanbase will jump if the team begins to win it's commonsense. The Phillies hadn't been to the playoffs since 1993 before last year, obviously there won't be as many fans. It would be like that with alot of towns. I've been seriously following baseball and The Phillies since a little before 1993 so I have the right to cheer this team on in the WS

Well band wagon fans are band wagon fans... it's like that with every city to an extent... it is what it is. But at the end of the day... that city will never be a baseball town... the Flyers haven't won a Stanley Cup since the 70's and they are probably ahead of the Phillies. For that reason most of those fans don't deserve a championship this year.

 

[Dark Donnie]

I said that if the Phillies beat the Rays assuming the Rays actually play the baseball they are capable of playing and have played in October thus far then I'll give them respect... and don't talk about the Angels/Rays not meeting... that logic is even more flawed... because then you are basically comparing beating LA Dodgers to beating the freaking defending World Champion Red Sox. And TB was probably the best team in the A.L this year anyways... how could it be a fluke?

My point was, that your disregarding what The Phillies have done because they(by your estimation) haven't played anyone good. They almost swept a Dodgers team that just beat up on The Cubs(who were the best team in the NL, elite you said). Also my logic isn't flawed at all about The Angels/Rays...The Angels had the best record in the AL, and The Rays didn't play them, not saying they would have lost, but teams matchup about against other teams better. Again, The Phillies had no control who they played, but the teams they did play, they beat. That's how the playoffs work.

Also you said nothing about The Rays playing up to potential, you said if The Phillies win, you will call it a fluke...until they do it consistently...even though the Phillies made the playoffs last year and The Rays stunk...that's where the talk of The Rays being a fluke came from. (for the record I don't think there a fluke)

Well band wagon fans are band wagon fans... it's like that with every city to an extent... it is what it is. But at the end of the day... that city will never be a baseball town... the FLyers haven't won a Stanley Cup since the 70's and they are probably ahead of the Phillies. For that reason most of those fans don't deserve a championship this year.

I'm lost why don't we deserve a championship? Because were not a baseball town? So The Rays don't deserve a championship either?

Over the course of the last two seasons this town has once again become a baseball town(it was during the late 70's and 80's).

At the moment its The Phillies, Eagles, Flyers, Sixers.

 

[Nightmare]

Wow, Sixers behind the Flyers.

 

[Dark Donnie]

Wow, Sixers behind the Flyers.

Definately, although The Sixers have been making some nice moves.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

yeah I dont quite understand Philly's devotion to the Flyers either myself. Philly's not a hockey hotbed like some of the other cities in the Northeast and Northern Midwest where it's HUGE at the amatrue levels. For some reason the Flyers just have a hold over this town, probably because of the violent nature of the NHL.

 

[FaT_tONle]

My point was, that your disregarding what The Phillies have done because they(by your estimation) haven't played anyone good. They almost swept a Dodgers team that just beat up on The Cubs(who were the best team in the NL, elite you said). Also my logic isn't flawed at all about The Angels/Rays...The Angels had the best record in the AL, and The Rays didn't play them, not saying they would have lost, but teams matchup about against other teams better. Again, The Phillies had no control who they played, but the teams they did play, they beat. That's how the playoffs work.

Yeah well Rays beat both the Angels/Sox head to head during the season... you could have made the argument that they were the best team going in... plus they played in the tougher division... remind me who plays in Anaheim's division? I rest my case... Phillies are only in there because of the luck of the draw.... Dodgers were not an elite team... that's all there is too it.

Also you said nothing about The Rays playing up to potential, you said if The Phillies win, you will call it a fluke...until they do it consistently...even though the Phillies made the playoffs last year and The Rays stunk...that's where the talk of The Rays being a fluke came from. (for the record I don't think there a fluke)

I said if Tampa comitts multiple errors per game and plays like dog ****... like the 2006 Tigers... then I will call it a fluke. If the Phillies show me something more I'll be the first one to retract.

I'm lost why don't we deserve a championship? Because were not a baseball town? So The Rays don't deserve a championship either?

Over the course of the last two seasons this town has once again become a baseball town(it was during the late 70's and 80's).

At the moment its The Phillies, Eagles, Flyers, Sixers.

Eagles behind the Phillies? Ya okay... you go to that stadium in August/September and you'll hear Eagle chants going on in there. Tampa Bay is more deserving because they have been the best team all year long.

 

[Dark Donnie]

yeah I dont quite understand Philly's devotion to the Flyers either myself. Philly's not a hockey hotbed like some of the other cities in the Northeast and Northern Midwest where it's HUGE at the amatrue levels. For some reason the Flyers just have a hold over this town, probably because of the violent nature of the NHL.

I think it's because they've been the most successful team of the four in terms of consistantly winning, and they are always trying to improve the team. I mean they the worst team in the NHL two years ago and last year they bounced back to the ECF. Personally, Hockey games are incredibly fun to attend, but not as fun to watch on TV.

 

[Dark Donnie]

Yeah well Rays beat both the Angels/Sox head to head during the season... you could have made the argument that they were the best team going in... plus they played in the tougher division... who play's in Anaheim's division? I rest my case... Phillies are only in there because of the luck of the draw.... Dodgers were not an elite team... that's all there is too it.


I said if Tampa comitts multiple errors per game and plays like dog ****... like the 2006 Tigers... then I will call it a fluke. If the Phillies show me something more I'll be the first one to retract.



Eagles behind the Phillies? Ya okay... you go to that stadium in August/September and you'll hear Eagle chants going on in there. Tampa Bay is more deserving because they have been the best team all year long.

But The Dodgers swept an elite team(The Cubs so you said) so that has to mean something if The Phillies beat them.

Philadelphia is a sports-crazed town that can be hard on both its teams and players, just ask Jimmy Rollins, and in recent years the Phillies have overtaken the Eagles and Flyers as the city’s team of choice.

http://baseball.realgm.com/src_teamarticle/483/20080918/october_watch_can_phils_keep_fighting/

I live here, so I see it first hand. The Phillies over the course of the last 2-3 season have become more popular. Getting to the WS just cements that.

 

[FaT_tONle]

But The Dodgers swept an elite team(The Cubs so you said) so that has to mean something if The Phillies beat them.

If you say so...

I live here, so I see it first hand. The Phillies over the course of the last 2-3 season have become more popular. Getting to the WS just cements that.

So I guess this is a month to month thing down there, eh? Flyers win a Cup and they'll be number one... Eagles get back to the Superbowl and they'll be number 1.

 

[Dark Donnie]

If you say so...



So I guess this is a month to month thing down there, eh? Flyers win a Cup and they'll be number one... Eagles get back to the Superbowl and they'll be number 1.

It's always been between The Eagles and The Phillies for who is number one. People have grown tired of The Eagles front office not going out and getting the necessary players to win, most important playmakers for McNabb. Since the Superbowl and Owens left the popularity has declined.

Also this town wants a championship...read Jayson Starks's column to get a better idea:

Spoiler

Reason No. 3: The city that never celebrates
In Philadelphia, they're growing a little tired of hearing about how the poor, downtrodden, cursified Chicago Cubs never win. In Philadelphia, you see, nobody ever wins.

Phillies' World Series history
YEAR OPPONENT OUTCOME
1993 Toronto Blue Jays L 4-2
1983 Baltimore Orioles L 4-1
1980 Kansas City Royals W 4-2
1950 NY Yankees L 4-0
1915 Boston Red Sox L 4-1
You would think it would be just about impossible for a city to run teams out there in all four major pro sports for an entire quarter-century and not have one of them win some kind of championship, let alone do it in the fourth-largest TV market in America.

But that's the sad story of Philadelphia, the United States' most parade-free city since 1983.

So this World Series is a chance to set these people free so they can toss around a little ticker tape, cancel their psychiatrist appointments and move on to a brighter tomorrow, with smiles on their faces and cheesesteaks on their plates -- forever and ever. Or at least until the next time the Eagles get stuffed on fourth-and-goal.

But this isn't just about all those teams. It's about this Phillies team. The losingest team in the history of any sport. A team with a sad, star-crossed, angst-laden history that is shockingly overlooked by baseball fans everywhere.

This is the Phillies' 126th season on Earth. They've won one World Series. That's one fewer than the Cubs have won. That's three fewer than that team across the state, the Pirates, have won. Sheez, that's even one fewer than the Marlins and Blue Jays have won.

That pall has hung over this franchise for a whole disastrous century, a century so messy that all Philadelphians know way more about Joe Carter, 1964 and Black Friday than they do about, say, their kids' report cards.

But this Phillies team seems different somehow. It's a group that keeps talking about raising the bar, changing mindsets and rewriting the sorriest history in sports. So explain to us why this isn't just as compelling a story as the Cubs' trying to undo their own sorry history.

It's missing ivy, billy goats and that fun little round number, 100. We get that. But other than that, it's pretty much the same tale of woe, heartbreak and misfortune. And what does America love more than a good tale of woe, heartbreak and misfortune?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3653757

This town doesn't have a histroy of winning so it's not the same as a NY where The Yankees have won a ton of titles. This town needs a championship. As Stark says, people cry about The Cubs, but this town has been through just as much.

 

[Immortalfire]

I wonder if Fat Tony would like it better if baseball had a wonderful ranking system like college football. Let's vote on a champion, instead of letting them actually play for it!

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Or have a system like basketball where sub-500 teams can make the playoffs.

 

[FaT_tONle]

It's always been between The Eagles and The Phillies for who is number one. People have grown tired of The Eagles front office not going out and getting the necessary players to win, most important playmakers for McNabb. Since the Superbowl and Owens left the popularity has declined.

Also this town wants a championship...read Jayson Starks's column to get a better idea:

Spoiler

Reason No. 3: The city that never celebrates
In Philadelphia, they're growing a little tired of hearing about how the poor, downtrodden, cursified Chicago Cubs never win. In Philadelphia, you see, nobody ever wins.

Phillies' World Series history
YEAR OPPONENT OUTCOME
1993 Toronto Blue Jays L 4-2
1983 Baltimore Orioles L 4-1
1980 Kansas City Royals W 4-2
1950 NY Yankees L 4-0
1915 Boston Red Sox L 4-1
You would think it would be just about impossible for a city to run teams out there in all four major pro sports for an entire quarter-century and not have one of them win some kind of championship, let alone do it in the fourth-largest TV market in America.

But that's the sad story of Philadelphia, the United States' most parade-free city since 1983.

So this World Series is a chance to set these people free so they can toss around a little ticker tape, cancel their psychiatrist appointments and move on to a brighter tomorrow, with smiles on their faces and cheesesteaks on their plates -- forever and ever. Or at least until the next time the Eagles get stuffed on fourth-and-goal.

But this isn't just about all those teams. It's about this Phillies team. The losingest team in the history of any sport. A team with a sad, star-crossed, angst-laden history that is shockingly overlooked by baseball fans everywhere.

This is the Phillies' 126th season on Earth. They've won one World Series. That's one fewer than the Cubs have won. That's three fewer than that team across the state, the Pirates, have won. Sheez, that's even one fewer than the Marlins and Blue Jays have won.

That pall has hung over this franchise for a whole disastrous century, a century so messy that all Philadelphians know way more about Joe Carter, 1964 and Black Friday than they do about, say, their kids' report cards.

But this Phillies team seems different somehow. It's a group that keeps talking about raising the bar, changing mindsets and rewriting the sorriest history in sports. So explain to us why this isn't just as compelling a story as the Cubs' trying to undo their own sorry history.

It's missing ivy, billy goats and that fun little round number, 100. We get that. But other than that, it's pretty much the same tale of woe, heartbreak and misfortune. And what does America love more than a good tale of woe, heartbreak and misfortune?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3653757

This town doesn't have a histroy of winning so it's not the same as a NY where The Yankees have won a ton of titles. This town needs a championship. As Stark says, people cry about The Cubs, but this town has been through just as much.

So the Phillies have a history of winning? New York is a baseball town... it does not become a hockey town if the Rangers win a cup... it does not become a football town because the Giants win a Superbowl... it's a BASEBALL town. Chicago is a baseball town... they do not have a history of winning... BOSTON is a baseball town... it was before 2004. Patriots winning a couple of world championships did not change that. Philly... maybe you are right... they go from one good thing to the next... that's not loyalty. That's bandwagon hoppers...

 

[Erzengel]

This town doesn't have a histroy of winning so it's not the same as a NY where The Yankees have won a ton of titles. This town needs a championship. As Stark says, people cry about The Cubs, but this town has been through just as much.

I'm not a Cubs fan but 100 > 28 years. That's almost 4 times as long of a wait, I wouldn't consider Philly being through just as much.

 

[Showtime]

... BOSTON is a baseball town... it was before 2004. Patriots winning a couple of world championships did not change that. Philly... maybe you are right... they go from one good thing to the next... that's not loyalty. That's bandwagon hoppers...

several

 

[Dark Donnie]

So the Phillies have a history of winning? New York is a baseball town... it does not become a hockey town if the Rangers win a cup... it does not become a football town because the Giants win a Superbowl... it's a BASEBALL town. Chicago is a baseball town... they don't have a history of winning... BOSTON is a baseball town... it was before 2004. Patriots winning a couple of world championships does not change that. Philly... maybe you are right... they go from one good thing to the next... that's not loyalty.

No they don't and the fans still followed The Phillies. Do you think NY would be such a huge baseball town if The Yankees didn't win 26 World Series and played in it 39 times? Winning brings fans, it's the same for every city not just Philadelphia. Also I don't have the stats in front of me but I'm willing to bet that the Red Sox have won alot more games, and have certainly been to the Playoffs more over the years leading up to 2004.

As the Stark article states, The Phillies have lost more games then any franchise in all of sports, not to mention been through some of the worst GM's and Owners ever. For this team to have a sustained fanbase is pretty incredible but they do.

This whole arguement started because you had to make a statement like we backed into the WS and didn't deserve it. They beat everyone put in front of them, which is what your suppose to do. You could say they're going to get crushed in the WS fine, but to make a claim like that is ridiculous.

I'm not a Cubs fan but 100 > 28 years. That's almost 4 times as long of a wait, I wouldn't consider Philly being through just as much.

I was comparing The Cubs, to Philadelphia as a whole like Stark states. This town has gone 100 seasons without a championship. At least Chicago had that stretch where the Bulls were incredible.

 

[Erzengel]

I was comparing The Cubs, to Philadelphia as a whole like Stark states. This town has gone 100 seasons without a championship. At least Chicago had that stretch where the Bulls were incredible.

I was bored so I did a listing of the top cities with at least 4 teams, one for each major sport.

In terms of that he's right, Philadelphia has had the longest stretch.

Although, Minnesota and DC aren't too far behind.

1. Atlanta, Ga. – Falcons, Braves, Hawks, Thrashers - 1995
2. Boston, Mass. – Patriots, Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins - 2007
3. Chicago, Ill. – Bears, Cubs, White Sox, Bulls, Blackhawks - 2005
4. Dallas, Tex.- Cowboys, Rangers, Mavericks, Stars - 1995
5. Denver, Colo. – Broncos, Rockies, Nuggets, Avalanche - 2001
6. Detroit, Mich. – Lions, Tigers, Pistons, Red Wings - 2008
7. Miami, Fla. – Dolphins, Marlins, Heat, Panthers - 2006
8. Minneapolis, Minn. – Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves, Wild - 1991
9. New York, N.Y. – Giants/Jets, Yankees/Mets, Knicks, Rangers/Islanders - 2008
10. Philadelphia, Pa.- Eagles, Phillies, 76ers, Flyers - 1983
11. Washington, DC – Redskins, Nationals, Wizards, Capitals - 1991

 

[FaT_tONle]

No they don't and the fans still followed The Phillies. Do you think NY would be such a huge baseball town if The Yankees didn't win 26 World Series and played in it 39 times? Winning brings fans, it's the same for every city not just Philadelphia. Also I don't have the stats in front of me but I'm willing to bet that the Red Sox have won alot more games, and have certainly been to the Playoffs more over the years leading up to 2004.

As the Stark article states, The Phillies have lost more games then any franchise in all of sports, not to mention been through some of the worst GM's and Owners ever. For this team to have a sustained fanbase is pretty incredible but they do.

This whole arguement started because you had to make a statement like we backed into the WS and didn't deserve it. They beat everyone put in front of them, which is what your suppose to do. You could say they're going to get crushed in the WS fine, but to make a claim like that is ridiculous.


I was comparing The Cubs, to Philadelphia as a whole like Stark states. This town has gone 100 seasons without a championship. At least Chicago had that stretch where the Bulls were incredible.

Then how come the team that YOU brought up... the Cubs... have a consistent fan base? Do the BUlls have anything to do with that? You don't need to win championships to be a (Enter sport) town. Philladelphia is a football town. No one gave a **** about baseball until the end of last year. You can deny that all you want... that was pretty much the case. A year and a half of decent baseball does not automatically mean the general Philly fanbase converted to baseball disciples... unless of course they are all band wagon hoppers... which they apparently are if we are going by what you or Jason Stark is saying.

several

A COUPLE... Pats only won two before the Sox finally came through... that's the point I was making.

 

[BlackLantern]

New York has a long baseball history...not only with the Yankees and Mets...but with the Dodgers and Giants, before they moved to the west coast...I would say out of all the big cities, NY is probably the most baseball friendly