Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - Part 9

[Llama_Shepherd]

I dunno. I usually like when Bruce solves the murder. It gives him the opportunity to let go of his anger and gives a new chapter to him as Batman. I even kinda like Morrison's take on it, where he finds Chill and torments him, forcing Chill to suicide, which is why he adopts the no-kill rule. It's an unpopular opinion, but since this continuity (Batman's especially) is already so screwed I'm gonna stick with Chill being found.

 

[Godzilla2014]

If I never hear the name "Joe Chill" again, it'll be too soon. I much prefer the irony of the world's greatest detective never being able to solve the one case that means the most to him.

Personally, Batman Begins was one of my favorite accounts of Bruce Wayne's journey to becoming Batman. Because Joe Chill's identity is known and he is murdered, vengeance is never an option for Bruce, and thus, he must grow past that and make his crusade about more than himself.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The symbolism of Batman never being able to get justice for himself is much more potent to me. If he finds his parents' killer and takes revenge or puts him behind bars or closes that chapter however you want it to play out, it seems like a narrative cue that he could someday move past his need for Batman and become a normal human being living a normal life. But the lack of personal justice from never finding his parents' killer acts as a really good motivator for Bruce and reason why he can never stop at some point and call his work as Batman enough. Every potentially unsolved case he would be tacitly ignoring by trying to move on with his own life would be an echo of his own lack of justice, and that could never sit right with him.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I dunno. I usually like when Bruce solves the murder. It gives him the opportunity to let go of his anger and gives a new chapter to him as Batman. I even kinda like Morrison's take on it, where he finds Chill and torments him, forcing Chill to suicide, which is why he adopts the no-kill rule. It's an unpopular opinion, but since this continuity (Batman's especially) is already so screwed I'm gonna stick with Chill being found.

I completely agree!

 

[RoughNTumble]

new mr. freeze

don't really care for the hair but other than that I have no strong feelings

the most important thing is giving him an interesting part in the story

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I wanna see some Freeze helmet! Show us your helmet Freeze!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Needs more fishbowl helmet. Freeze and Mysterio are their fishbowl helmets. To remove them is unthinkable.

 

[RoughNTumble]

maybe it's optional, like wonder woman's pants

 

[Godzilla2014]

The symbolism of Batman never being able to get justice for himself is much more potent to me. If he finds his parents' killer and takes revenge or puts him behind bars or closes that chapter however you want it to play out, it seems like a narrative cue that he could someday move past his need for Batman and become a normal human being living a normal life. But the lack of personal justice from never finding his parents' killer acts as a really good motivator for Bruce and reason why he can never stop at some point and call his work as Batman enough. Every potentially unsolved case he would be tacitly ignoring by trying to move on with his own life would be an echo of his own lack of justice, and that could never sit right with him.

I think there's a lot more to Bruce's need to be Batman than just seeking his parent's killer. I prefer to Bruce to be Batman to bring justice to Gotham, not avenging his parents' murder.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, the lack of justice for his parents' murderer is just a metaphor for crime in Gotham in general. Bruce is an inconsolable victim of the selfsame random violence and mayhem that robs so many other Gothamites of happy lives. Another reason I don't like seeing the name "Joe Chill": giving the killer a name and a face removes him from the random, faceless crime of Gotham and weakens that metaphor.

 

[Watchman]

I dunno. I usually like when Bruce solves the murder. It gives him the opportunity to let go of his anger and gives a new chapter to him as Batman. I even kinda like Morrison's take on it, where he finds Chill and torments him, forcing Chill to suicide, which is why he adopts the no-kill rule. It's an unpopular opinion, but since this continuity (Batman's especially) is already so screwed I'm gonna stick with Chill being found.

This. I prefer Batman to get over his obsessions/parents' death and his fight against crime is for purely altruistic reasons.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well, the lack of justice for his parents' murderer is just a metaphor for crime in Gotham in general. Bruce is an inconsolable victim of the selfsame random violence and mayhem that robs so many other Gothamites of happy lives. Another reason I don't like seeing the name "Joe Chill": giving the killer a name and a face removes him from the random, faceless crime of Gotham and weakens that metaphor.

I prefer the idea that the Waynes' murderer isn't a faceless boogeyman, but just a man with a gun. The kind that Bruce eats for breakfast as Batman. That's the greater irony, in my opinion.

 

[Anubis]

I'm gonna agree with Corpy here.

 

[Godzilla2014]

This. I prefer Batman to get over his obsessions/parents' death and his fight against crime is for purely altruistic reasons.

I completely agree. I don't want to see Bruce obsessing over his parents' deaths for the rest of his life. It casts his crusade in a negative light, that he indeed is no better nor is he any more sane than the people he brings in.

 

[antsman41]

Freeze's re-imagination in AC was awesome, they should carry that into the comics.

 

[WompuM]

Final thought: I certainly prefer Batman Begins' treatment of Joe Chill as opposed to Morrison's. Batman forcing a man into suicide and giving him the gun is way worse than, ethically, morally, whathaveyou, that dropping him off a building or something. Either way, Chill must be a faceless example of crime and violence and not some evil mastermind as he was seen in the Golden Age.

As for Freeze, I reallllly dislike it. They've given him some new punk attitude that doesn't make a ton of sense. I very much liked his design in Arkham City and wish they would have gone more in that direction--clunky, cummbersome, powerful.

 

[WompuM]

Freeze's re-imagination in AC was awesome, they should carry that into the comics.

Bam.

 

[hippie_hunter]

If I never hear the name "Joe Chill" again, it'll be too soon. I much prefer the irony of the world's greatest detective never being able to solve the one case that means the most to him.

I think it works better that the current interpretation of Batman knows who his parents murderer is. Batman not knowing who the murderer is and being unable to bring him to justice works better with an angry, vengeful Batman. Not the Batman we currently have who is pretty much completely over his parents' deaths.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I completely agree. I don't want to see Bruce obsessing over his parents' deaths for the rest of his life. It casts his crusade in a negative light, that he indeed is no better nor is he any more sane than the people he brings in.

Really? You think a guy who channels the rage over his lack of justice into a crusade to make Gotham safer for everyone is no better than a guy who sits on rooftops shooting at people with a sniper rifle just because he can? Because that argument seems a bit... skewed.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think it works better that the current interpretation of Batman knows who his parents murderer is. Batman not knowing who the murderer is and being unable to bring him to justice works better with an angry, vengeful Batman. Not the Batman we currently have who is pretty much completely over his parents' deaths.

I completely agree.

Really? You think a guy who channels the rage over his lack of justice into a crusade to make Gotham safer for everyone is no better than a guy who sits on rooftops shooting at people with a sniper rifle just because he can? Because that argument seems a bit... skewed.

If he's fighting crime on a quest for vengeance for his parents' murder, then he's probably not very sane. This puts everything about him in question. Is his no-kill rule part of his values, or a part of his psychosis? Is his compulsive need to apprehend criminals really that different from Victor Zsasz's compulsive need to kill people and carve tally marks into his skin or Two Face's compulsive need to flip a coin to make choices?

That works fine if Batman actually questions this (see Arkham Asylum) or in a deconstruction (see The Dark Knight Returns), but if we are meant to see Batman as sane without a doubt, then it doesn't work as well for me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Doesn't the fact that he dresses like a bat and single-mindedly goes out looking to stop crime every night already sort of call his sanity into question? There's no really sane justification for that.

 

[The Batman]

I'm sorry, but I find it ridiculous when writers/editors try and reverse the Joe Chill thing

At the end of the day, its ultimately about the fact that his parents are dead, and he's angry about it. Him finding Chill will not change the fact that his parents are dead and hes angry about it, IMO. Bruce made the vow to war on all criminals, not just the guy who killed his parents.

Honestly, Joe Chill has produced more memorable comics than "I cant find my parents killers, let me be angsty about it". When Denny O Neil brought back the unknown killer idea in the 90's, it felt like yet another forced tactic to make Batman grimdark.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Doesn't the fact that he dresses like a bat and single-mindedly goes out looking to stop crime every night already sort of call his sanity into question? There's no really sane justification for that.

Yes, but it can be dealt with pretty well. Look at the Nolan films. They managed to make a genuinely compelling case for why a sane person would do that sort of thing. Arkham Asylum uses it to question Batman's sanity.

I'm sorry, but I find it ridiculous when writers/editors try and reverse the Joe Chill thing

At the end of the day, its ultimately about the fact that his parents are dead, and he's angry about it. Him finding Chill will not change the fact that his parents are dead and hes angry about it, IMO. Bruce made the vow to war on all criminals, not just the guy who killed his parents.

Honestly, Joe Chill has produced more memorable comics than "I cant find my parents killers, let me be angsty about it". When Denny O Neil brought back the unknown killer idea in the 90's, it felt like yet another forced tactic to make Batman grimdark.

I agree.

 

[Cain]

If Batman's not going to bother solving the murder, then don't waste my time with "My parent's killer was never caught.", because it's entirely pointless. I don't want to see Batman endlessly obsess over his parent's unsolved murder if he's not going to do anything about it. There's far more to the character than "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!!"

Yeah I think you may be in a minority on this one cause many readers including myself were perfectly fine with that scenario of him not knowing who the killer was for 20 yrs.

When Morrison brought it back it didn't bother me cause the story was cool and all but yeah I have no problem with Batman not knowing. It actually makes it all the more tragic. Such rich and powerful people can't even have proper justice in such a corrupt town. Highlights why a Batman and Commissioner Gordon were badly needed.

 

[Cain]

I'm sorry, but I find it ridiculous when writers/editors try and reverse the Joe Chill thing

At the end of the day, its ultimately about the fact that his parents are dead, and he's angry about it. Him finding Chill will not change the fact that his parents are dead and hes angry about it, IMO. Bruce made the vow to war on all criminals, not just the guy who killed his parents.

Honestly, Joe Chill has produced more memorable comics than "I cant find my parents killers, let me be angsty about it". When Denny O Neil brought back the unknown killer idea in the 90's, it felt like yet another forced tactic to make Batman grimdark.

It was brought back mid to late 80's and not every writer took it in that direction. Hell I'd say the only real slump the books had that even went "grimdark" was after Moench/Jones were gone all the way to the Alan Grant departure after Legacy and and up to No Man's Land.

I think there and even shortly after the Fugitive era that was being pushed way too much and I dropped the books but to say that the anonymous killer encompassed a whole part of making Batman grimdark and all nah not really. Killing Robin II was exploited waaaaay more when it came to that dept.