Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 2

[LOBO3315a]

I don't know, I rather liked the part where he was knocking scores of Men around with his mace before Elendil tried to stop him. You had a sense that he could have waded through the combined Armies and not broken a sweat doing it.

 

[Boom]

My problem with Sauron in the LoTR films is that he just looked like a very tall guy in a suit of armor.

Sauron is a Maiar spirit (akin to the Wizards and the Balrog). As such, I would have liked to see a supernatural, incorporeal quality about him. Like having a "living" cape comprised of smoke/mist, or even something as simple as having his body emit an enormous amount of heat (He literally burns Gil-galad to death in the book), therefore creating a hazing effect around his body. Just something to make him physically appear otherwordly.

And don't get me started on the giant floating eyeball .

 

[Angel_Faerie]

I thought the "giant floating eyeball' was in the books?

I mean, it has been 8-9 years since I read the books, so for all I know I could be wrong.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

My problem with Sauron in the LoTR films is that he just looked like a very tall guy in a suit of armor.

Sauron is a Maiar spirit (akin to the Wizards and the Balrog). As such, I would have liked to see a supernatural, incorporeal quality about him. Like having a "living" cape comprised of smoke/mist, or even something as simple as having his body emit an enormous amount of heat, therefore creating a hazing effect around his body. Just something to make him physically appear otherwordly.

And don't get me started on the giant floating eyeball .

If you watch the appendices to LOTR, they talk about how they almost showed that. When Aragorn was leading the march on the Black Gate at the end of Return of the King, Sauron appeared before him in the form you just described and then Aragorn battled the armored Sauron instead of the armored troll. They decided against it pretty much because they felt it was to much lore the audience wasn't familiar with and it may not have made sense. Had they given more back story to Sauron it may have gone through.

 

[Boom]

To my knowledge, Frodo sees a "red eye" in a high window of Barad-Dur. But given the hold that the Ring had over him at that point, I always interpreted it as Frodo seeing things. The "eye" that he saw could have just as easily been a red light inside the window, and from a distance it resembled an eye.

Other than the vision Frodo has in the Mirror of Galadriel, there is no other evidence of a physical Eye of Sauron - especially one that literally sits atop Barad-Dur. At the very least, in all my readings of the Lord of the Rings, I certainly never pictured it, nor saw any strong evidence of it.

However, Tolkien makes it quite clear that Sauron did have some sort of physical (albeit weakened) manifestation in the books (whether it be bodily or spectral). He personally interrogates Gollum - who notes that the Dark Lord had a black, four-fingered hand.

 

[Marx]

I'm going to have to re-read the books but I thought Sauron was pretty accurate. As descriptive as Tolkien was, there is a good deal that can still be left to interpretation.

 

[Boom]

Sauron is one of the least-described characters in the book, which is greatly responsible for why he is such a captivating and frightening villain in the trilogy.

I agree that PJ didn't have much to work with. Tolkien really only gave us these little snippits:

-Sauron was of humanoid shape, but unnaturally tall to be a man (though he wasn't a giant).
-Sauron had a black hand. The question, though, is whether his skin was actually black, or if he was wearing black gloves/armor.
-Sauron had yellow, cat-like eyes.

Still, I didn't like the giant floating eyeball myself. Just wasn't that interesting nor frightening to me. And again, I never saw enough evidence of it in the book to justify it. Especially when Gollum made it quite clear that Sauron physically appeared and spoke to him. Not sure how PJ overlooked that.

 

[Armored Avenger]

I do find it strange that PJ kept in the line that Aragorn shouts at the Black Gate, saying "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth". How is the giant floating eye of the films supposed to come before the host of the west? The line was in the books because Sauron had a physical form in the books. As others have pointed put, Gollum was taken before Sauron and describes his four fingered hand.
Sauron also had in his possession one of the Palantíri, which he used to communicate with Saruman and plant the seeds of despair in the mind of Denethor. How is the Sauron of the films supposed to use one of the seeing stones when he is portrayed as a giant eye that constantly sits atop his tower?
I didn't mind the films explicitly showing the Great Eye as a physical entity, but I would have preferred it to be shown as a tool of Sauron's, who would remain unseen, rather than being turned into Sauron himself.

 

[Boom]

To tell you the truth, it would have been ballsy as hell if PJ never showed us any form of Sauron after the Prologue.

Have Gollum reference him like he does in the book, but never show him.

I'm sure people would have *****ed, but I would've personally loved it. A film trilogy where you never see the villain outside the Prologue. A film trilogy where the main villain's presence is only felt, not shown.

 

[dark_b]

One Camera to Rule Them All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkCNiAnZhNg&feature=player_embedded

t:

 

[Boom]

Evangeline Lilly talks 'The Hobbit':

Now you’re in New Zealand filming The Hobbit with Peter Jackson. It’s a long commitment which would make some actors balk. Was that a concern?

“I will be in and out of New Zealand for the course of a year. It worked out well. For a lot of actors, being that tied down would be problematic for their careers because they wouldn’t have the freedom to take any other part in the meantime. For me it’s perfect because I want to have time to spend with my family and relax and focus on my writing. This role gives me a framework within which to do that because I’m not working all the time but I’m working enough. When you’re not working at all, you get lost in space and time and don’t accomplish anything. It’s a flexible work environment and I don’t have to be estranged from my family.”

When you played Kate you were always doing physical scenes and stunts. How are you prepping for The Hobbit?

“With every film, you have to educate yourself on the material and it’s often things you don’t know a lot about. Right now I’m studying Elvish and having conversations with people about learning how to be an archer, a swordsperson and how to fight like an elf instead of a gritty convict.” [Laughs]

Did you have any reservations about joining The Hobbit cast?

“With The Hobbit, it was a no-brainer because I have been a fan of those books since I was 13-years-old.”

Being a fan of the books, what did you make of Jackson’s Lord Of The Rings trilogy and all the changes he made to the story?

“When the original came out in theatres, I swore up and down that I would not see them because I thought it was sacrilege that anyone would adapt Tolkien’s work. I didn’t think anyone would justify films by making them as good as they should be. Then my entire family when I was visiting went to see the movie and so I relented and went. We were all fans of the books and we were all blown away! It was a little piece of magic what Peter Jackson accomplished because it was truly a homage to the books rather than an offense.”

Tauriel is a new character in the mythology so as a book purist yourself that must be frightening to ponder how fans will react to your part?

“Yeah! I am very concerned to this day that people will watch the film and I’ll be the black mark on the film. I know how adamant the purists are and I’m one of them! That said, upon reading The Hobbit again, as an adult, I can see why additional characters were needed to round out the story as an adaptation – especially female characters! The Hobbit didn’t include female characters at all and was a very linear story, a book for children, really. What Peter, Fran (Walsh) and Philippa (Boyens) have done is all in perfect keeping with Tolkien’s world, while adding a third dimension to an otherwise very two-dimensional story.”

SOURCE: http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/09/17/evangeline-lilly-on-the-hobbit-and-real-steel/

 

[Armored Avenger]

I disagree with what she says about The Hobbit lacking dimension as a story.
The Battle of Five Armies is a battle for gold, jewels and material gain. It lacks the nobility and honourable motivations of the wars in LOTR and Bilbo is used to comment on how useless and petty the conflict is. It almost reaches a point where the Dwarves are willing to battle the Men and Elves in order to keep all of the recovered wealth from Smaug's horde. Only the arrival of the Goblins unites the free peoples. The Goblins have also come for the vast fortune left behind after Smaug's death, not to conquer the lands of Erebor or Dale.
When examined under the more serious tone of The Lord of the Rings this conflict, a grim and dishonourable situation, could have its motivations greatly critiqued and the sadness of when [BLACKOUT]Thorin, Fili and Kili die[/BLACKOUT] could also be used to highlight how this battle over gold led to a vast waste of life. It also reveals a lot about the characters of both Thorin and Bilbo, with Thorin refusing to give out any of the gold and Bilbo not caring about his share of the fortune. The films can really expand on all these points to a greater degree than the book, due to the shift in tone to be more similar to the LOTR trilogy.
If you look at a lot of the situations within The Hobbit through the more serious tone of The Lord of the Rings then it becomes clear that the story can easily be adapted to show a wealth of conflict and dimension using the existing material. Add to this the whole subplot of The White Council and the Necromancer and it seems clear to me that invented characters are not needed. However I have no idea what Tauriel's role within the story is, so I will not pass judgement on her until I see the film.

 

[Boom]

Agreed 100%.

The Hobbit has plenty of thematic relevance. It's simply underspoken.

-The loss of innocence.
-The destructive nature of greed.
-Loyalty to your friends vs. doing the right thing.
-Redemption.
-The classic "hero's journey."

Honestly, I'm starting to get a bit irked by people within the production writing The Hobbit off as a one-dimensional children's story just to excuse the changes and additions that are being made.

You cannot tell me that these films needed Tauriel in order to work. It's just pure nonsense.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think she meant bring it to screen in live action. Two dimension defined as a book, and to be realized.

 

[Boom]

Short-Beard Thorin and Stubble Kili still suck .

/Thread

Spoiler

 

[Hunter Rider]

So Evie will be seeing some action? cool! I wonder if Tauriel will fight side by side with Legolas.

As for her view on the book, she is entitled to it, I think her main point though was that the film version needed to be less of a sausage fest.

 

[Boom]

LIES AND SLANDER !

 

[Hunter Rider]

Come on Boom, pretty Ladies are always a welcome addition.

 

[Boom]

I feel like I don't even know you anymore .

 

[Hunter Rider]

But.........but, the Wimmens.

 

[terry78]

She is right though, it has always been viewed by the mainstream as a children's book, that's what it was lauded as for a long time. It's something we read in school. I didn't even consider picking it up again until recently.

 

[the amazing fro]

Personally I think the Hobbit > LOTR.

The Hobbit was tremendous fun to read and I read it in two days. LOTR often felt like a massive chore and it took me AGES to read. Tolkien has a penchant to go off on one which can get tedious in such a long book. I shouted "GET ON WITH IT" quite a few times during my reading.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The Hobbit is a lot easier to read indeed.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I JUST realised that Watson is playing Bilbo and Holmes is playing Smaug.

 

[Boom]

NZ Prime Minister John Key interviews Peter Jackson.

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Prime-Mi...ackson/tabid/506/articleID/23481/Default.aspx

In summary:

-They're on Day 94/95 of a 250-day shoot.
- They are currently filming a scene involving Bilbo, the dwarves, and thirty goblins. Flames and fire were involved.
- They film until the middle of next year.
- They have filmed a scene with Bilbo and the dwarves walking up a rocky path on the side of a cliff. Lightning and rain were involved.
- Location shooting begins in 2-3 weeks.