Official UFC Thread - Part 8

[killface]

Time for Kong vs Godzilla

edit:watching that fight just made me an accessory to murder

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Tony Ferguson spends two months talking absolutely garbage, gets completely whipped for 4 and half rounds and then acts like a complete jerk after the fight. You are right, you aren't fighting Khabib.

My favorite part of the fight is they kept talking about how Ferguson could keep taking the shots and stay at this pace, and all I kept telling my brother was not if he keeps getting hit like that. Yep. You know it is bad when your corner has to tell you to stop hitting your opponent so damn hard.

All laughing aside, Ferguson might never be the same again. He was broken in that fight. Absolutely broken. He gave up. Gaethje is half Mexican? Oh he is definitely my boy now.

 

[Lobo]

Just watched the fight. Man, if only a crowd was there they would have been losing their ****. Tony has got a HoF chin, damn. But what a performance by Justin Gaethje!

 

[B]

You knew that was going to happen, styles make fights, Gaethje is stylistically a better matchup vs Ferguson he's a worse matchup vs Khabib. Gaethje winning last night has actually saved Khabib from fighting someone that IMO would be a tougher matchup for him given his style.

That was easily the best performance I've seen from Gaethje in all the fights I've seen from him, he fought with composure & a brain, didn't get himself into an unnecessary slugfest which he has done in pretty much every fight I've seen him in.

I think the difference between the 2 was that Gaethje was able to hit Ferguson often & hard enough to immediately get his attention & respect the power. I'd guess that they both have similar striking stat metrics in terms of how often they each landed, but Gaethje was literally winging his punches they were far more impactful as you can tell by the amount of damage caused on Ferguson's face & leg.

I didn't like the lack of a crowd, you could attribute the lack of a crowd to how much composure Gaethje was able to show. If that same fight happened with a crowd ohhing & ahhing after every exchange it probably would have egged the pair of them on. Personally speaking, even though it was great to see some sport again, I'd honestly shelve future events until the US opens up a bit & they can get at least some form of an audience to create an atmosphere & pressure caldron for the fighters.

 

[B]

Time for Kong vs Godzilla

edit:watching that fight just made me an accessory to murder

Francis Ngannou is literally an animal.. the power he has is ridiculous.

If Rumble returns & has a crack at HW, I'd love to see what would happen if those 2 fought.

 

[B]

Also forgot to say, I thought that stoppage in the Cruz vs Cejudo fight was early. Yes he was hurt, yes he was getting swarmed, but he was still moving & was intelligently defending himself & he was doing so by trying to get to his feet as opposed to curling up in a ball covering up.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You knew that was going to happen, styles make fights, Gaethje is stylistically a better matchup vs Ferguson he's a worse matchup vs Khabib. Gaethje winning last night has actually saved Khabib from fighting someone that IMO would be a tougher matchup for him given his style.

That was easily the best performance I've seen from Gaethje in all the fights I've seen from him, he fought with composure & a brain, didn't get himself into an unnecessary slugfest which he has done in pretty much every fight I've seen him in.

I think the difference between the 2 was that Gaethje was able to hit Ferguson often & hard enough to immediately get his attention & respect the power. I'd guess that they both have similar striking stat metrics in terms of how often they each landed, but Gaethje was literally winging his punches they were far more impactful as you can tell by the amount of damage caused on Ferguson's face & leg.

I didn't like the lack of a crowd, you could attribute the lack of a crowd to how much composure Gaethje was able to show. If that same fight happened with a crowd ohhing & ahhing after every exchange it probably would have egged the pair of them on. Personally speaking, even though it was great to see some sport again, I'd honestly shelve future events until the US opens up a bit & they can get at least some form of an audience to create an atmosphere & pressure caldron for the fighters.

See, I disagree he is a stylistically worse match up for Ferguson. Ferguson is known for being able to walk through big shots, while Gaethje's two losses came standing. Is there any reason to think Ferguson could grapple with Khabib? He definitely wouldn't have taken that probable career altering beating, but stylistically, Gaethje fits Ferguson's preferred style much better imo.

The lack of crowd really didn't bother me, but I also watched way too many season of The Ultimate Fighter, so I am use to a lack of crowd. That said, I did like that there was no crowd to influence the judges. From all indications last night's show was a big success, so they are going to keep doing shows. They are 3 more over the next two weeks, including this upcoming Wed and Sat. I personally welcome the Disney World NBA Playoff tournament!

 

[B]

See, I disagree he is a stylistically worse match up for Ferguson. Ferguson is known for being able to walk through big shots, while Gaethje's two losses came standing. Is there any reason to think Ferguson could grapple with Khabib? He definitely wouldn't have taken that probable career altering beating, but stylistically, Gaethje fits Ferguson's preferred style much better imo.

Absolutely there is, He's a legit black belt under Eddie Bravo & even as early as his TUF days he was very good at fighting off his back throwing up a constant barrage of elbows, submission or sweep attempts. If you go look up a highlight reel of Tony Ferguson on Youtube about 75% of each video's highlights would be grappling, most of which from his back which seems to be his bread & butter.

Now Khabib might be able to nullify him anyway on the ground, but he'd not stand with Ferguson so he'd have to take him down & go into an area in which Ferguson seems by all accounts elite.

Gaethje's 2 loses though were because he got involved in wild slugfests, Poirier & Alvarez were the 2 loses if I'm not mistaken. If I recall I think he gassed himself out in both fights as well after wobbling both chasing a finish.

The lack of crowd really didn't bother me, but I also watched way too many season of The Ultimate Fighter, so I am use to a lack of crowd. That said, I did like that there was no crowd to influence the judges. From all indications last night's show was a big success, so they are going to keep doing shows. They are 3 more over the next two weeks, including this upcoming Wed and Sat. I personally welcome the Disney World NBA Playoff tournament!

I'm sure it was a success, I even saw some websites that don't even give a **** about MMA under normal circumstances were talking about it because they'd nothing else to cover.

I've watched the first 15 seasons or so of TUF so it's not like I'm not used to the lack of a crowd, it's more the fact I'm not used to fights of significant magnitude with widely known names not having an atmosphere. It does make a big difference for the competitors IMO, there certainly seems like there's a hell of a lot less pressure which in this sport is part of package of being a fighter.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Absolutely there is, He's a legit black belt under Eddie Bravo & even as early as his TUF days he was very good at fighting off his back throwing up a constant barrage of elbows, submission or sweep attempts. If you go look up a highlight reel of Tony Ferguson on Youtube about 75% of each video's highlights would be grappling, most of which from his back which seems to be his bread & butter.

Now Khabib might be able to nullify him anyway on the ground, but he'd not stand with Ferguson so he'd have to take him down & go into an area in which Ferguson seems by all accounts elite.

Gaethje's 2 loses though were because he got involved in wild slugfests, Poirier & Alvarez were the 2 loses if I'm not mistaken. If I recall I think he gassed himself out in both fights as well after wobbling both chasing a finish.

Yes, but Ferguson's two biggest wins of his career came standing. He is known for absorbing damage, using his technique and gas tank to win epic slugfests. You are right about Gaethje's losses, which is exactly why I mention him being a theoretically better style match up for Ferguson. Whose black belt would probably be negated by the best grappler in MMA history. And I totally think Khabib, like he did with Conor, would stand a bit with Ferguson. After he wore him down riding him for a round or two.

I'm sure it was a success, I even saw some websites that don't even give a **** about MMA under normal circumstances were talking about it because they'd nothing else to cover.

I've watched the first 15 seasons or so of TUF so it's not like I'm not used to the lack of a crowd, it's more the fact I'm not used to fights of significant magnitude with widely known names not having an atmosphere. It does make a big difference for the competitors IMO, there certainly seems like there's a hell of a lot less pressure which in this sport is part of package of being a fighter.

It's a different kind of pressure imo. The fighters themselves are not use to it, and being able to hear everything at ring side must be a trip. When the announcers say something, do you listen to it? Try to adjust accordingly? It's not ideal, but I like it. There are no excuses. No crowd to blame for swaying the judges or to pump up your opponent. It's you and your opponent, and the best fighter wins.

 

[B]

Yes, but Ferguson's two biggest wins of his career came standing. He is known for absorbing damage, using his technique and gas tank to win epic slugfests. You are right about Gaethje's losses, which is exactly why I mention him being a theoretically better style match up for Ferguson. Whose black belt would probably be negated by the best grappler in MMA history. And I totally think Khabib, like he did with Conor, would stand a bit with Ferguson. After he wore him down riding him for a round or two.

Is he though? With the exception of last night I don't think he absorbs a lot of damage to the point that it's something he's known for like say Nate Diaz.

Gaethje's a strong striker as his long line of finishes show & he's a strong wrestler, there isn't really much of a stylistic advantage for Ferguson to benefit or take advantage off. Whereas with Khabib, Ferguson is good fighting off his back, Khabib likes to put people on their back, however Tony's a lot stronger a striker than Khabib.

IMO Demian Maia's the best grappler in MMA history or maybe even GSP.

It's a different kind of pressure imo. The fighters themselves are not use to it, and being able to hear everything at ring side must be a trip. When the announcers say something, do you listen to it? Try to adjust accordingly? It's not ideal, but I like it. There are no excuses. No crowd to blame for swaying the judges or to pump up your opponent. It's you and your opponent, and the best fighter wins.

There is still pressure obviously but look at how many guys that come from TUF with no crowd & then seem to crumble under the bright lights, large crowds & expectation. Obviously it's not just the crowd, there is a step up in competition in some cases, but the crowd & the weight of expectation can make anyone crumble. Being able to handle that pressure is part of being an elite fighter IMO.

Even with no crowd in the prelims the Waterson/Esparza had 2, 30-27 scorecards, 1 for each fighter.

 

[Doc Samson]

Justin earned me some easy money, IMO he and Masvidal have the best hands in MMA currently. Tony is good at applying pressure and gassing people out, but Gaethje is too accurate for someone who gets hit as much as Tony does. It would always be a bad matchup for him, especially with Justin staying under control and tactical like that.

I also think Gaethje's wrestling pedigree fades to the back because he likes to stand and exchange but make no mistake, I don't think Khabib will have the easiest time getting him down...

 

[B]

Couldn't watch it live but what a great scrap

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I finally watched Smith vs. Teixeira. I started as a really good scrap. Then the third round happened, and it seemed as if the ref and Smith's corner didn't seem to understand that they all needed to stop the fight before Glover killed him. Smith clearly doesn't want to continue, and couldn't defend himself. His teeth were falling out and he wasn't responding to questions if he wanted to continue. Even the announcers got uncomfortable during the fourth round, almost asking Glover to stop beating Smith and then basically asking someone to stop it. No wonder so many had such a problem with this stoppage, or should I say lack of one.

 

[Iceman]

'I am the second greatest of all time'

Edit: That's Conor McGregor claiming he’s no.2 all time behind Anderson Silva.

 

[Iceman]

Nice discussion above @B and @DarthSkywalker. I enjoyed reading through that. When I’ve seen Ferguson he’s been so relentless it must be a truly horrible experience for his opponents.

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

'I am the second greatest of all time'

Edit: That's Conor McGregor claiming he’s no.2 all time behind Anderson Silva.

He is definitely not top 5. Like how can he even claim he is better then Khabib, who dominated him and then submitted him with ease while both men are in their primes?

Now I want to make a list. Top 10 based on "greatness" not skill. Greatness has to do with prime work, though if the fighter did something big before or after their prime, it helps. If a fighter started getting blasted out once they got old, I don't really hold that against them. Quality of division and their time reigning matters. Being a known cheater from cheatsville cheatana during your prime matters to me. This is also off the top of my head.

1. Fedor: Reigned over the best division in MMA history for a long while. We also know he wasn't a cheater back then, because we have now seen him on roids.

2. GSP: Avenged both losses definitively, reigned over a strong division for years and his comeback just proved how special he was.

3. Anderson: Took a long time to find his groove, but once he did he was pretty close to unstoppable.

4. Aldo: Reigned for forever and a day. He beat everyone, but sadly his body broke down.

5. Wandy: Fought everyone, and did so with not one iota of care for himself. Probably wouldn't have lost his chin so early if he hadn't taken those HW fights.

6. Shogun: A better fighter then Wandy, though his knees went early. What he was still able to do was pretty legendary imo.

7. Khabib: The beastest beast of all beast time. Dude doesn't lose rounds, let alone fights.

8. DC: Two divisions, and the biggest blemish on his career came from a known cheater. Not enough respect imo.

9. Big Nog: Fedor kind of ruined him early, but that didn't stop him from gutting out a legendary career.

10. Cruz: **** injuries.

Honorable Mention: Might Mouse. He's great, but he reigned over a division that was rather lame. Basically built off those that couldn't make it in the weight class above.

 

[B]

'I am the second greatest of all time'

Edit: That's Conor McGregor claiming he’s no.2 all time behind Anderson Silva.

No.

I agree with most of what he says in terms of what he thinks equates to 'GOAT' status ie finishes, multiple weights, multiple titles etc however he arrives at the wrong conclusion to have himself placed so highly.

His achievements obviously deserve respect but I wouldn't have him in my top 10, let alone my top 3. He's probably in my 11-20 range but the longer you gave me to think about it the lower he'd go.

 

[Doc Samson]

1. Fedor: Reigned over the best division in MMA history for a long while. We also know he wasn't a cheater back then, because we have now seen him on roids.

2. GSP: Avenged both losses definitively, reigned over a strong division for years and his comeback just proved how special he was.

3. Anderson: Took a long time to find his groove, but once he did he was pretty close to unstoppable.

4. Aldo: Reigned for forever and a day. He beat everyone, but sadly his body broke down.

5. Wandy: Fought everyone, and did so with not one iota of care for himself. Probably wouldn't have lost his chin so early if he hadn't taken those HW fights.

6. Shogun: A better fighter then Wandy, though his knees went early. What he was still able to do was pretty legendary imo.

7. Khabib: The beastest beast of all beast time. Dude doesn't lose rounds, let alone fights.

8. DC: Two divisions, and the biggest blemish on his career came from a known cheater. Not enough respect imo.

9. Big Nog: Fedor kind of ruined him early, but that didn't stop him from gutting out a legendary career.

10. Cruz: **** injuries.

Honorable Mention: Might Mouse. He's great, but he reigned over a division that was rather lame. Basically built off those that couldn't make it in the weight class above.

Decent list, no doubt. And I understand what you're saying about cheating, obviously. But Jon, from almost every measure, is the most dominant MMA fighter we've ever seen. Even if he doesn't make the list due to controversy, he deserves at least an honorable mention man!

To me, he's Barry Bonds, main difference being we can pinpoint the start of Bonds on PEDs, we can definitely trace his beginnings. And without the 2000s he was still arguably the greatest player who ever lived. For Jon, idk, but if we can't definitively say when he started, we can't definitively say he's always been using.

Also, where's the Prodigy and/or Hughes??

1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva
4. Khabib
5. Fedor
6. Johnson
7. Cormier
8. Aldo
9. Stipe
10. Hughes

Honorable mentions to Amanda (talk about needing more respect, she might be moving into the 10 for me real soon. She beat literally every name in easily the best age for Women's MMA), Cain, Penn (never said top 10 but damn close), Iceman, W Silva, Randy, too many to name really, but fun just the same...

 

[Dr. Evil]

So Henry Cejudo, Vitor Belfort and Rashad Evans showed up with Mike Tyson in AEW.

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gilbert Burns just completely dominated Woodley from bell to bell. Both standing and on the mat.

 

[Doc Samson]

If he's not gonna let his hands go, Tyron needs to retire.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If he's not gonna let his hands go, Tyron needs to retire.

Good point. He got rocked early, which might have effected him tonight. But overall, he seems far too hesitant a fighter now.