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Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

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Here is the Apollow 11 interior:

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And here is the interior of the new Space X capsule:

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I think it would be really cool to see that Kirby retro high-tech.
 
With a bit of tweaking, many of the Kirby designs could be used in a modern setting. It would be a visual way to show that it's Reed's invention. Just like how you can kind of tell when it's an invention of Tony Stark's because they have a similar design to his Iron Man suits. To this day artists take inspiration from Kirby's art when designing gadgets Reed makes. A recent issue of the book showed Reed's lab which was very Kirby-esque. It can definitely work in a modern setting.

Kirby's designs for otherworldly places would not need the 60s setting though and should 100% be translated to the big screen (as well as the Kirby Krackle).

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If I haven't come out of an FF film wondering whether I was high part way through it, you've done it wrong.
 
With a bit of tweaking, many of the Kirby designs could be used in a modern setting. It would be a visual way to show that it's Reed's invention. Just like how you can kind of tell when it's an invention of Tony Stark's because they have a similar design to his Iron Man suits. To this day artists take inspiration from Kirby's art when designing gadgets Reed makes. A recent issue of the book showed Reed's lab which was very Kirby-esque. It can definitely work in a modern setting.

Kirby's designs for otherworldly places would not need the 60s setting though and should 100% be translated to the big screen (as well as the Kirby Krackle).

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If I haven't come out of an FF film wondering whether I was high part way through it, you've done it wrong.
This is a fine middle-ground between the two. I think Marvel may want a F4 movie set in 2021-2022 to reflect the designs of the future, though. :/ 60s would be a natural fit for these visuals
 
This is a fine middle-ground between the two. I think Marvel may want a F4 movie set in 2021-2022 to reflect the designs of the future, though. :/ 60s would be a natural fit for these visuals

The images I posted can work in any time period as it's of alien worlds/universes and energy. Kirby's designs can be used as inspiration for those places with no issue. His designs for Reed's inventions would need tweaking, but can also work to give the film a unique aesthetic without having to set it in the 60s time period.

The current Fantastic Four comic definitely uses Kirby as inspiration for designs and they work with no problem at all. It helps to give the FF a unique feel and it looks very futuristic in it's own unique way.

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Using Kirby's designs as inspiration in a modern Fantastic Four film will help it to stand out. Infusing the present setting with a 60s feel would differentiate the film much more than having yet another period piece. Thor Ragnarok feels very 70s inspired and that benefits the film greatly, much more than if Thor traveled back to the 70s or something.

No need for another period piece.
 
On another topic:

Should Reed and Sue be married already or should it eventually happen in a later film?
 
On another topic:

Should Reed and Sue be married already or should it eventually happen in a later film?
Depends on the age they go with for Reed and Sue and whether or not it's an origin film
 
On another topic:

Should Reed and Sue be married already or should it eventually happen in a later film?

Save that for a sequel, maybe even tease it out until the third in the franchise. They should be a couple already but there aught to be some issues after they receive their powers that they have to get through in that first film. But even then I would hold off on the wedding vows. I think the audience should be given a damn good reason why Sue is in love with Reed. We need to see a connection there and that takes time to showcase properly.

Sue if done right can be the one that makes the audience really get to understand Reed.

But please... No manufactured "will they/won't they" and also, I don't want there to be artificial friction with Johnny and Ben when it comes to Reed and Sue as a couple. Yes... The first family fights, just as all families do but when that's ALL the characters do you can't really understand why they are emotionally connected to one another or how they can be an effective unit in the face of adversity. So no Johnny being resentful of Reed coming into Sue's life and nothing like Ben being afraid he's losing his buddy to marriage or worse, some kind of "Ben is secretly in love with Sue" nonsense (I know... It's raised it's head in the comics from time to time but... I didn't like it there either).
 
Definitely saved for the sequel. Franklin and Valerie (with maybe a more streamlined origin) for the third
 
They should at least be dating by the time the first movie starts.

Being in a relationship from the beginning should always be the case. I don't need or want to see how they get together as that's just boring and a waste of screen time.

I'm just wondering whether Marvel will have them married straight away or have it happen in a film. I would personally love to see something similar to their comic wedding with all the heroes there, but I'm also fine with Marvel having them married from the start.
 
If I haven't come out of an FF film wondering whether I was high part way through it, you've done it wrong.
I think both Doctor Strange and Guardians show that Marvel definitely aren't afraid to get into some weird and trippy places. Marvel will definitely go in that direction with Fantastic Four.
 
I think both Doctor Strange and Guardians show that Marvel definitely aren't afraid to get into some weird and trippy places. Marvel will definitely go in that direction with Fantastic Four.

I do think they have dipped their toes in with the films you mentioned, but I'm ready for them to go all out.
 
A lot of the people who suggest a 60’s period piece seem to want it to go in the Captain America direction by having the first film be entirely set in that era then the sequels take place in modern day.

And I just don’t see the point since all you really accomplish with that is maybe a few amusing fish-out-of-water scenes we’ve seen a dozen times before. While it would be fun to Reed Richards who’s usually a know-it-all science guru be fascinated with the modern technology of the 21st century I’d rather have a movie set in modern day.
I've never seen anyone suggest actually setting a whole movie in the 60's. I agree that that would be a terrible idea. But I believe that the time lost traveler approach brings a whole lot to the table, not least of which would be not having to retell their origin.
 
I have certianly seen others suggest that an entire film be set in that time period in order to do a more literal adaption of the original Stan and Jack 60's run. And I fail to see how it would bring anything to the table except provide some fish out of water moments with the Four trying to acclimate to the modernity of today. If anything, the idea would essentially make them trapped in a timeline they don't really belong in and their natural desire as a result of that would be to return back to the timeline they came from instead of remaining in this time period. I think that would needlessly complicate things.
 
I think a retro, early Sixties vibe is fine. But it can be done in the modern day. The first Iron Man kinda did that in the opening sequence with Tony in Vegas and the flight to Afghanistan.

Once more (because I can) here's my take. Note: I wrote this before the Fox/Disney deal was finalized.


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How I'd do Fantastic Four?

First up, I would place them into the MCU, no doubt but I honestly think the MCU connection is the least important aspect. The franchise could work as either a film or a streaming series though reasonably speaking a show would require an incredibly high budget. Let's start off with tone.

Tone:

I see the tone as being a mix of the nonchalance cool of OCEAN'S 11 mixed with the high tech tales of exploration one had on Star Trek: The Next Generation. The characters are all witty banter and creative solutions that take on situations one would expect from a group tackling all sorts of scientific mysteries and attempting to expand the horizon of knowledge.
I would go for background music that alternates between a big brassy swing sound like Sinatra in the early 60's and a more subdued techno inspired one. Think half the time it's Henry Mancini or Lalo Schifrin and the other half it's Daft Punk. Above all the connection between the main characters needs to be front and center. This is a "family". There is a deep connection between all of them. Now, that doesn't somehow preclude conflict, drama and personality clashes. If anything it guarantees it! That said that element cannot come off as forced or unearned. Ben's resentments and depression, Reed's guilt, Johnny's impulsive flippancy and Sue caught in the middle of it all could be done in a way that is feels very manufactured. This is something even the comics often stumble with. I would show that each character has a bond with the other three in ways that are unique and understandable despite the out there circumstances they always find themselves in.

Basic Set-Up:

I think I would start en media res with the team having the origin told in flash backs, whether film or TV series. If a film, those flash backs would be to simply fill in plot and background info. On a TV show I think I would take the LOST approach and have pivotal information revealed during said flashbacks. The flashbacks would be about both the lead up to them gaining their powers and the aftermath but also character history from long before the group got together, ranging from childhood to college age. Based out of Manhattan the team's headquarters of the Baxter building is more than just a place to hang their hats. It is the central hub for cutting edge theoretical research, which cover particle physics, nano tech, artificial intelligence, genetics, and astrophysics, except that it's not all just theoretical. At any time of the average work week great minds of science, politics and celebrity can be found coming and going from the ground level entrances. Of course that's when the FF want people to know they have guests. And guests aplenty would be an element I would have. Real life celebs, politicians and scientists along with the FF's fictional alums like Hank Pym and Tony Stark would always be around conferring with Reed and the team. I think the team needs to be seen as "cool" and celebrity pop ins would add to that. People come and go to get the team's help or assist them with something but Reed is also smart enough to harness another form of power the team possesses to do good. The power of celebrity and wealth. To that end the Fantastic Four Futures Foundation is the name under which the team operates it's charitable and philanthropic enterprises. If a TV show the FFFF would be a very prominent aspect. On a show you can have the FFFF lead to all kinds of stories. If a film it would be a bit more of a background element. Action would be of the four quadrant manner, not too gory or over the line but it has to be thrilling. The story has to be about sci fi wonder and the dangers that can come with it.


The Team:

1. Johnny Storm/The Human Torch- Okay I'm gonna get a huge pet peeve off my chest about the usual depiction of Johnny... HE SHOULD NOT BE A ****ING IDIOT. Look I know it's can seem to a film maker that with one of the FF being the literal smartest man in the world that it's natural to have some other member be thick as a brick. I get it but it irks me no end in toon and movie versions where Johnny is just a fool that's there to bring laughs.
Johnny of course can be used for comic relief, and of course he's not at Reed's level intellectually but why does that then also mean he's a dope with no common sense who comes off as if he has no real respect for any of the others so often in adaptations? Well I ain't having none of that. Johnny would be called on for lighter material and to bring humor but it shouldn't really ever be at the expense of being a real character, or undermining his or other character's inherent dignity. In my conception of a live action FF, whether TV/Streaming or Film I see Johnny as an honest to goodness teenager. Not an astronaut, not a pilot, not a peer in any way close to the others in age. He's a kid. Full stop. Now Johnny acting flip, making huge mistakes or acting out fits and I think the audience would find it more acceptable. He's well under 21 years old. As such, his emotional tool box isn't fully loaded yet. He doesn't have the natural stockpile of experiences to draw from that the other members do. This makes him rash, but not acting just to do dumb stuff. He's literally ignorant, but not thick headed stupid. As a kid he's likely to overcompensate in all manner of things both to positive and negative effect. He loves his sister deeply as he was convinced for so long that they would only have each other in this world. Now there's a man in Sue's life. How does Johnny handle that? I actually think that instead of headless rebellion that Johnny welcomes Reed, even idolizes him, though he's got to keep a "too cool for school" attitude as a front. Remember, he's a teen overcompensating. But he embraces Reed. Sue is more than just Johnny's older sister. She's been his defacto mother as well and he wants her to be happy. In Johnny's eyes he wants that family unit to be complete and Reed isn't just his brother in law, he's a father figure. One that he butts heads with but that is what happens between father's and sons all the time. Johnny also LOVES having super powers and the celebrity that comes with it. To that end instead of being indifferent to Reed's technobabble, at least when it comes to his powers Johnny soaks up Reed's observations like a sponge. He's fascinated by what he can do and listens to Reed so that he can learn to do even more. Johnny is also a gear head and I would make this a point of commonality between he and Ben. Johnny is never going to get the concepts of sub atomic particles but he understands the engineering of modern cars and is even picking up some aeronautics form Ben. Johnny knows Ben misses his life as a pilot and so he always asks him about stories from that time in Ben's life as they go about working on the classic cars that are Johnny's hobby. Johnny has reservoirs of compassion but again his youth trips him up. He really feels for Ben but in trying to get him out of the funks that sometime overcome him he ends up appearing to just be a snot nosed punk to those on the outside looking in. He's just trying to do something in a situation he feels powerless in where someone he respects and loves is being tortured by their circumstances. Johnny might tease Ben to take his mind off of his situation, but if someone else does it even half hearted he will blow his top at them. I don't have any particular actor in mind for Johnny or any of the other members but if I had to put down the type I guess I would go for someone like a light haired Justin Long meets Sean William Scott type from the early part of their careers. Somebody that can get the youthful aspects of the character across well, both the genuine and the flippant and can handle both the dramatic and light shades.


2. Ben Grimm/The Thing- The character that always evokes the most pathos, but also the most fun and relatable character. Ben is the guy that is the natural protector type since he was young. He was the type that for sure bought into all sorts of common held stereotypes about being a man and he did his damndest to live up to them to the max, but not in a way that's all about aggrandizing himself at the expense of others. For Aunt Petunia's favorite nephew all that male energy is about being strong enough and stoic enough to handle what ever life throws your way so you can be there for your family but also so that you are tough enough to protect those less fortunate or weaker than yourself. Ben is about commitment, and about taking the slings and arrows of life as they come because that's what a man does.
This is a bit old fashioned in it's outlook but with Ben it works. That's not to say he doesn't have the signature Marvel Comics angst. No, it's there in spades. He's just really good at covering his disgust and depression at what has happened to him for the outside world. So he throws himself whole hog into the world of super heroics a celebrity and attempts to live his life as though nothing has changed all that much for him despite the reminder he gets whenever he looks in a mirror. Ben is the most New Yawk of the four.
He is an embraced and beloved figure of everyday folks in NYC. He's on a first name basis with every food vendor and hot dog cart owner in a ten block radius of the Baxter Building. TMZ and other tabloid media stake out the building's entrance to get video of the affable "freak" who tries to live life as though he's not a giant super strong orange rock colored being. He goes about his life trying to live it the way he did before the accident. This leads to inadvertent humor as Ben clothes himself in comically over sized NYC sports Jerseys or everyday clothing. Ben loves kids, again that natural protector part of him, so he often spends his off time donating himself to the FFFF charities that deal with handicapped and disfigured children. Ben also feels that he'll never have children of his own now. As such he attempts to pass on knowledge and wisdom of the hard earned kind to Johnny as much as he can. Ben has resentments against Reed. Who deep down would not? But he's also aware that his friend is beating himself up inside everyday that he cannot find a cure. Ben knows that while Reed is a man of total rationality somewhere in his psyche Reed thinks that Ben's condition and the inability of him to find a cure despite all his brilliance is a punishment the universe has doled out for Reed's arrogance about his towering intellect. As such, while Ben feels bad about being transformed, he actually feels worse for Reed and keeps a stiff upper lip to not hurt his feelings. This mix of inner turmoil and the way that Ben's personality was even before the exposure to cosmic rays means that of them all Ben is always ready to leap head first into some adventure. If he's doing something, if his big rocky hide can be useful then that's less time he has to contemplate how his deformity has affected his life. I think they hit the nail on the head with Michael Chiklis in the Story films casting wise but he was not well served by those scripts. So I would keep the casting in that wheelhouse.
A big bear that can be both menacing and lovable in equal measure.



3.Susan Storm-Richards/The Invisible Woman- Sue is the member of the team that is dealing with it all. And I do mean everything. She is not a scientist as in the Story or Trank films. But what she does have is a natural skill at organization and delegating responsibility. The team but also the Baxter Building and the FFFF could not work without her constant efforts to keep every plate spinning. Sue has a natural gift for PR, and spin, but not in the negative way we think of in say politics. No, she's great at making her case for something and being able to negotiate among people to get it done. It could be an outgrowth of navigating the personalities of the FF or it could be an inborn talent. In any case she is through either nature or circumstance an outgoing extrovert. In NYC she's a sought after celebrity that can bring focus and action to what ever cause the FFFF has in it's cross hairs. She's in a way the team's therapist too. Everyone, even Reed goes to Sue to cry on her shoulder or to complain about the others. This can be overwhelming but Sue keeps her frustrations well hidden under a facade of being a modern woman that's got it all together. She's the one member that thinks it's all on her to make it work when they are not out on an adventure. The adventuring super hero thing is Reed's department. Her domain is everything else that makes the adventures possible. Her marriage, raising her brother, looking out for Ben, running the charities, administering the board for the research the Baxter Building does. She does it all because she has to, which is what many women that balance career and home will tell you. Her codename is a two edged sword. She does so much and does it flawlessly she sometimes feels she is invisible. It's like as though the others often don't get that the team operates as it does due to her herculean efforts. The other side of that sword is that there are days she wishes she could just disappear and let all of this weight be on someone else's shoulders. Sue is not a scientist but she is fascinated by Reed and how he views the world, existence in total. Reed is devoted to truth above all, and in searching for those truths he reveals new wonders to the world. She may get frustrated with the man but he's someone she has complete and total faith in. Sue's ability to improvise also serves her well in the use of her powers. Perhaps more so than even Reed she is the one member of the team that can use her powers in the most versatile way and she is the most inherently dangerous member of the team, something to often overlooked by the FF's adversaries, even Doom. I guess in casting you need a mixture of the gravitas that a Charlize Theron has (and had even when she was quite young) and the everyday womanly smarts and comic timing of a Sarah Chalke type.


4. Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic- Oh boy... Where to start? Okay first off Reed has got to come off a lot less like an egghead and a lot more cool.
Perhaps to the point of arrogance even. If you look at recent adaptations getting across how amazing Reed is because of his intellect more than his power set is seemingly difficult. Making smart cool and interesting is a balancing act, with it's own pitfalls writers fall into regularly. Again, I think the key though is to make Reed and his intelligence cool. The difficulty is not doing it in the way that's currently en vogue. More often than not these days you find fictional geniuses as being depicted as either snobby, arrogant asshats that are separate and cut off from society or others in some way usually emotionally or they are geniuses but lack some aspect of common sense. In any case there is this very ham fisted rule in a lot of stories where there is some heavy personality price to be paid for being so much smarter than everybody else and while it can work to make Cumberbatch's Holmes cool, or Dr. House ect. it also tends to make them off putting in some way.
The other type is the usual socially awkward nerd trope. None of that should apply to Reed. No, for Reed I think the template is another BBC regular...
Doctor Who, or more specifically the affable and endearing take of the Matt Smith/David Tenant years of the Timelord. Here was a super genius that was a little off, sure, and still a science genius but never an ass to those whom it was unwarranted to be so. Funny, always thinking, always observing always game to find out something new. That's Reed to T if I were in charge of the character. I would leaven that with a pinch of social awkwardness but maybe not even that. I would say that Reed is eternally "un-hip" but he's always "cool". Reed isn't keeping up with popular culture because he's unconnected to the wider world and culture. He's more than aware. He just realizes it doesn't really matter. But he is grounded into what does, and that goes beyond his research. He calculates it all into his actions. He isn't blind to politics, nor human emotions and interactions. That sort of analysis on the fly is what gives him such an edge in his adventures and endeavors, both before he gained his powers and after. That's why again, flashbacks are really important. Establish that Reed was a genius that thrilled to adventure as much as to research. Make it that he sees no appreciable difference maybe?
All knowledge is self knowledge could be part of his personal credo. He's not a cold man. His emotions are as keyed into things as anything else. He is fulfilled by finding out new things and going new places and he wants others to be just as excited as he is. He's a rational man but he sees a "spiritual" value in scientific quests, and a beauty in the truth science uncovers about the universe and sentient existence in it. This also makes him the type that takes a lot of effort to surprise on his enemies part. Reed even without his power could walk in and out of CIA headquarters and liberate whatever information he wanted to an no one would ever know he was there. Again, like the Doctor... He's just that cool. No, I would have this version of Reed not be simply a forgetful professor type that shuts himself off from his friends and family all the time. If anything this version of Reed is in fact using his brain all the time to try and serve them in some fashion. Cutting them off knowingly or inadvertently would actually be the signs of someone a lot less bright than Reed is supposed to be. No this is a Reed that has a balance between his emotions and his rationale sides. What makes him a genius is that he can actually navigate those two areas equally. Now that brings up some interesting story points once you establish that because now when he gets to a situation where he must choose between the two, where he can't find the way to solve the problem all around you get to see what his choices will be and it's more likely for the drama to work. If we all assume Reed has a huge emotional blind spot and is an absent minded professor type then when he does just that... Who is gonna be surprised? If you establish that he has got his **** together then it becomes a bigger deal when even he can't square a circle so to speak. Above all the actor needed to play Reed cannot just be a nerdy milquetoast. He has to have a charm, even a magnetism, must be good at playing the collected type but also show the commitment to science because he finds it all so wondrous. I honestly don't even know where to start
with the casting. I will say the story films and the show on CN and the Trank films all missed the mark to varying degrees to my eyes.

And then I sketched out my take on Dr. Doom and how he fits into things.

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How would I do Doctor Doom and the origin of the Fantastic Four



1. Doctor Doom

A lot of FF fans chafe and cringe at the fact that film makers seem to be hesitant at adapting Doom as the majestic monarch and genius he is with all the flamboyance and over the topness we all know from the comics.
I can understand the reticence to a certain degree, but in the end...
larger than life and over the top villains is not anything new to films of all stripes and if anything it fits even more into the world of super hero films.
Even Christopher Nolan's supposed "real world" films contain secret societies and a mastermind villain that has a purple suit, war paint and a punk rock aesthetic. I get keeping Doom a bit grounded but that is a relative thing in
a world where radiation turns men into living rubber bands. So if I had to handle Doom on film today I would start with the idea that he is a well known but also paradoxically secretive figure. Up until the point his full villain goes on display fighting against the Four, I would say the rest of the world finds him an ambiguous figure though he has his fair share of adherents.

In my estimation this is because Victor Von Doom would have been a person on the world stage that has the history and standing of Che, Mandela or Mao.
"Injured" in an accident that seemed to involve equally famous scientist Reed Richards, Von Doom apparently discharged himself from the hospital shortly after being admitted. Subsequently the records from his admission have gone missing with the nurses and doctors that were there to treat him all mysteriously dying in the years after. It's widely assumed Doom suffered some kind of severe facial disfigurement. About a year later Von Doom becomes a public figure fighting against the despotic regime in control of his home nation of Latveria. Without his comic armor and wearing a simple mask with only a small slits for eye holes, Doom became the "face" of the opposition,
at first peaceful but also eventually it's military commander. Doom spoke out against the oppression of the Roma of his country and the lack of government supported education and services for all Latverians. In this he had much of the sympathy and ear of the world. Thus his standing as a pop culture figure of righteous aggression against the powerful to some. An avatar of what he liked to promote as the prideful character of the Latverians Doom refused all outside aide form other countries both when he was simply the peaceful coordinator of the various dissident movements of Latveria, but also once the fighting began.


Instead, Von Doom took his forces to the mountains, the ancestral home of his Romani family, and created from scratch an underground industrial complex which outfitted his troops with weapons and equipment. Eventually Doom's forces win and he of course is proclaimed Supreme President or some such aggrandized title. Claiming the need to lick the nations wounds and bind her together Doom institutes a closed border policy. Shortly after Doom fakes an attempt on his life, video of which makes it's way to the outside world.
Dated about three years before Tony Stark's famous escape from the Ten Rings it seems after this "attempt" on his life Doom began to wear his own powered armor. He tries to cultivate his own aura as a "super hero" of his land to mixed results. Soon after other nations tread carefully against Latveria. Slowly it's been coming out that Doom's rule is despotic in it's own way, even if he has seemingly wiped out poverty in his country. Fear of Doom's loyal troops and stories of hyper advanced technology trickle in and make most leaders uncertain of how to proceed when dealing with Doom. Doom buys off too much prying into his country and the rumored human rights abuse by producing highly lucrative exotic materials in small quantities for export.

2. The Origin of the FF
It's these exotic materials that will eventually connect Doom to the FF.
Reed Richards is a smart man. He's supposed to be a genius of incredible intellect. So... Why was there no radiation shielding in his space craft in the original comics? This has been a point covered again and again with differing rationales in the books. For a film I would first of all assume Reed would have such shielding in place. In fact I would have it that Reed, a highly public figure of science and engineering would be attempting to create low cost space travel. Either directly referencing the X-Prize Foundation or making due with a fictional equivalent. I would make it more than just a simple launch and return but a race. Reed to show his faith in his engineering, creation and pilot, publicizes that he is bringing his fiancee and her brother along for the ride. After all, this is about creating practical space travel for all, right? Thus we now have somewhat of a reason to have two non-aeronautical individuals on board the craft. Reed built the ship with his team but did the lions share of construction with Ben, valuing Ben's test pilot input. As an added degree of difficulty the contest's date happens to coincide with an oncoming burst of naturally occurring radiation along the route of the race as it heads towards the finish. On the day of the race Reed's ship under Ben's control aces it's time and smokes the competition. As it approaches it's final flight path home though the radiation wave hits and instead of reacting as Reed designed it to the ship begins to fall apart, and the occupants are all exposed to the radiation. Luckily Reed has ultra redundant safety features not even in the original plans for the craft and they are saved arriving on land... Of course we know what happens next. They each received powers yadda yadda. What I would have would be that initially unknown to Reed the ship's materials were tampered with. From the source, as Reed's design called for certain cutting edge meta-materials only produced in Latveria. Doom of course was trying to kill Richards, and we learn eventually the reasons: Reed's calculations on the experiment (which also seemed to Reed to have some kind of irrational occult influences) Doom was running at the laboratory complex where they were studying (think someplace like the complex built by CERN, the Large Hadron Collider) were correct. The experiment blew up in Doom's face, though safety measures Reed installed actually saved their lives and resulted in Doom getting only the most minor of scars on one side of his face. And thus the reasons Doom hid his face during the Latverian revolution and why the doctors and nurses that looked him over after the accident had to die. Doom is brilliant, driven, a master of both science and the occult... And a bat guano crazy sociopath. In this version though this need for petty revenge brings about the one force that can counter him. In terms of performer that could handle this and make it all work, the brilliance, the presence, the fragile yet bombastic ego... I honestly don't know.
 
Wow those are gorgeous krypton!

With a bit of tweaking, many of the Kirby designs could be used in a modern setting. It would be a visual way to show that it's Reed's invention. Just like how you can kind of tell when it's an invention of Tony Stark's because they have a similar design to his Iron Man suits. To this day artists take inspiration from Kirby's art when designing gadgets Reed makes. A recent issue of the book showed Reed's lab which was very Kirby-esque. It can definitely work in a modern setting.

Kirby's designs for otherworldly places would not need the 60s setting though and should 100% be translated to the big screen (as well as the Kirby Krackle).

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If I haven't come out of an FF film wondering whether I was high part way through it, you've done it wrong.

Yeah I reckon the set designer of this film is going to have so much fun.

On another topic:

Should Reed and Sue be married already or should it eventually happen in a later film?

I also think reed and sue should be dating but not yet married. I mean, we all want to see the marriage scene. Who doesn’t love a wedding?
 
Thor Ragnarok used Jack Kirby designs and was set in the present. Just saying

This is my point. I'm not talking about piddling around the edges and doing something we've already seen. I'm talking about the potential of the visual spectacle of putting the world of FF 1-100 on the screen. The clothes and the cars and the "high tech" vehicles and machinery.

That direct translation intrigues me. If they're not going to make that unique spectacle then I don't see any reason to set it in the 60's.
 
Wow those are gorgeous krypton!



Yeah I reckon the set designer of this film is going to have so much fun.



I also think reed and sue should be dating but not yet married. I mean, we all want to see the marriage scene. Who doesn’t love a wedding?

Oh... I didn't draw those images if that's what you are thinking. What I meant by "sketched" out were the "pitches" in the spoiler tags, which I'm assuming you didn't notice. No... I don't have an artistic bone in my body. I had a How Would You Do It? thread in the Misc. Comic Film section and I would always put some art in the posts for visual aides when going over the "pitch".
 
I think a retro, early Sixties vibe is fine. But it can be done in the modern day. The first Iron Man kinda did that in the opening sequence with Tony in Vegas and the flight to Afghanistan.

Once more (because I can) here's my take. Note: I wrote this before the Fox/Disney deal was finalized.


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How I'd do Fantastic Four?

First up, I would place them into the MCU, no doubt but I honestly think the MCU connection is the least important aspect. The franchise could work as either a film or a streaming series though reasonably speaking a show would require an incredibly high budget. Let's start off with tone.

Tone:

I see the tone as being a mix of the nonchalance cool of OCEAN'S 11 mixed with the high tech tales of exploration one had on Star Trek: The Next Generation. The characters are all witty banter and creative solutions that take on situations one would expect from a group tackling all sorts of scientific mysteries and attempting to expand the horizon of knowledge.
I would go for background music that alternates between a big brassy swing sound like Sinatra in the early 60's and a more subdued techno inspired one. Think half the time it's Henry Mancini or Lalo Schifrin and the other half it's Daft Punk. Above all the connection between the main characters needs to be front and center. This is a "family". There is a deep connection between all of them. Now, that doesn't somehow preclude conflict, drama and personality clashes. If anything it guarantees it! That said that element cannot come off as forced or unearned. Ben's resentments and depression, Reed's guilt, Johnny's impulsive flippancy and Sue caught in the middle of it all could be done in a way that is feels very manufactured. This is something even the comics often stumble with. I would show that each character has a bond with the other three in ways that are unique and understandable despite the out there circumstances they always find themselves in.

Basic Set-Up:

I think I would start en media res with the team having the origin told in flash backs, whether film or TV series. If a film, those flash backs would be to simply fill in plot and background info. On a TV show I think I would take the LOST approach and have pivotal information revealed during said flashbacks. The flashbacks would be about both the lead up to them gaining their powers and the aftermath but also character history from long before the group got together, ranging from childhood to college age. Based out of Manhattan the team's headquarters of the Baxter building is more than just a place to hang their hats. It is the central hub for cutting edge theoretical research, which cover particle physics, nano tech, artificial intelligence, genetics, and astrophysics, except that it's not all just theoretical. At any time of the average work week great minds of science, politics and celebrity can be found coming and going from the ground level entrances. Of course that's when the FF want people to know they have guests. And guests aplenty would be an element I would have. Real life celebs, politicians and scientists along with the FF's fictional alums like Hank Pym and Tony Stark would always be around conferring with Reed and the team. I think the team needs to be seen as "cool" and celebrity pop ins would add to that. People come and go to get the team's help or assist them with something but Reed is also smart enough to harness another form of power the team possesses to do good. The power of celebrity and wealth. To that end the Fantastic Four Futures Foundation is the name under which the team operates it's charitable and philanthropic enterprises. If a TV show the FFFF would be a very prominent aspect. On a show you can have the FFFF lead to all kinds of stories. If a film it would be a bit more of a background element. Action would be of the four quadrant manner, not too gory or over the line but it has to be thrilling. The story has to be about sci fi wonder and the dangers that can come with it.


The Team:

1. Johnny Storm/The Human Torch- Okay I'm gonna get a huge pet peeve off my chest about the usual depiction of Johnny... HE SHOULD NOT BE A ****ING IDIOT. Look I know it's can seem to a film maker that with one of the FF being the literal smartest man in the world that it's natural to have some other member be thick as a brick. I get it but it irks me no end in toon and movie versions where Johnny is just a fool that's there to bring laughs.
Johnny of course can be used for comic relief, and of course he's not at Reed's level intellectually but why does that then also mean he's a dope with no common sense who comes off as if he has no real respect for any of the others so often in adaptations? Well I ain't having none of that. Johnny would be called on for lighter material and to bring humor but it shouldn't really ever be at the expense of being a real character, or undermining his or other character's inherent dignity. In my conception of a live action FF, whether TV/Streaming or Film I see Johnny as an honest to goodness teenager. Not an astronaut, not a pilot, not a peer in any way close to the others in age. He's a kid. Full stop. Now Johnny acting flip, making huge mistakes or acting out fits and I think the audience would find it more acceptable. He's well under 21 years old. As such, his emotional tool box isn't fully loaded yet. He doesn't have the natural stockpile of experiences to draw from that the other members do. This makes him rash, but not acting just to do dumb stuff. He's literally ignorant, but not thick headed stupid. As a kid he's likely to overcompensate in all manner of things both to positive and negative effect. He loves his sister deeply as he was convinced for so long that they would only have each other in this world. Now there's a man in Sue's life. How does Johnny handle that? I actually think that instead of headless rebellion that Johnny welcomes Reed, even idolizes him, though he's got to keep a "too cool for school" attitude as a front. Remember, he's a teen overcompensating. But he embraces Reed. Sue is more than just Johnny's older sister. She's been his defacto mother as well and he wants her to be happy. In Johnny's eyes he wants that family unit to be complete and Reed isn't just his brother in law, he's a father figure. One that he butts heads with but that is what happens between father's and sons all the time. Johnny also LOVES having super powers and the celebrity that comes with it. To that end instead of being indifferent to Reed's technobabble, at least when it comes to his powers Johnny soaks up Reed's observations like a sponge. He's fascinated by what he can do and listens to Reed so that he can learn to do even more. Johnny is also a gear head and I would make this a point of commonality between he and Ben. Johnny is never going to get the concepts of sub atomic particles but he understands the engineering of modern cars and is even picking up some aeronautics form Ben. Johnny knows Ben misses his life as a pilot and so he always asks him about stories from that time in Ben's life as they go about working on the classic cars that are Johnny's hobby. Johnny has reservoirs of compassion but again his youth trips him up. He really feels for Ben but in trying to get him out of the funks that sometime overcome him he ends up appearing to just be a snot nosed punk to those on the outside looking in. He's just trying to do something in a situation he feels powerless in where someone he respects and loves is being tortured by their circumstances. Johnny might tease Ben to take his mind off of his situation, but if someone else does it even half hearted he will blow his top at them. I don't have any particular actor in mind for Johnny or any of the other members but if I had to put down the type I guess I would go for someone like a light haired Justin Long meets Sean William Scott type from the early part of their careers. Somebody that can get the youthful aspects of the character across well, both the genuine and the flippant and can handle both the dramatic and light shades.


2. Ben Grimm/The Thing- The character that always evokes the most pathos, but also the most fun and relatable character. Ben is the guy that is the natural protector type since he was young. He was the type that for sure bought into all sorts of common held stereotypes about being a man and he did his damndest to live up to them to the max, but not in a way that's all about aggrandizing himself at the expense of others. For Aunt Petunia's favorite nephew all that male energy is about being strong enough and stoic enough to handle what ever life throws your way so you can be there for your family but also so that you are tough enough to protect those less fortunate or weaker than yourself. Ben is about commitment, and about taking the slings and arrows of life as they come because that's what a man does.
This is a bit old fashioned in it's outlook but with Ben it works. That's not to say he doesn't have the signature Marvel Comics angst. No, it's there in spades. He's just really good at covering his disgust and depression at what has happened to him for the outside world. So he throws himself whole hog into the world of super heroics a celebrity and attempts to live his life as though nothing has changed all that much for him despite the reminder he gets whenever he looks in a mirror. Ben is the most New Yawk of the four.
He is an embraced and beloved figure of everyday folks in NYC. He's on a first name basis with every food vendor and hot dog cart owner in a ten block radius of the Baxter Building. TMZ and other tabloid media stake out the building's entrance to get video of the affable "freak" who tries to live life as though he's not a giant super strong orange rock colored being. He goes about his life trying to live it the way he did before the accident. This leads to inadvertent humor as Ben clothes himself in comically over sized NYC sports Jerseys or everyday clothing. Ben loves kids, again that natural protector part of him, so he often spends his off time donating himself to the FFFF charities that deal with handicapped and disfigured children. Ben also feels that he'll never have children of his own now. As such he attempts to pass on knowledge and wisdom of the hard earned kind to Johnny as much as he can. Ben has resentments against Reed. Who deep down would not? But he's also aware that his friend is beating himself up inside everyday that he cannot find a cure. Ben knows that while Reed is a man of total rationality somewhere in his psyche Reed thinks that Ben's condition and the inability of him to find a cure despite all his brilliance is a punishment the universe has doled out for Reed's arrogance about his towering intellect. As such, while Ben feels bad about being transformed, he actually feels worse for Reed and keeps a stiff upper lip to not hurt his feelings. This mix of inner turmoil and the way that Ben's personality was even before the exposure to cosmic rays means that of them all Ben is always ready to leap head first into some adventure. If he's doing something, if his big rocky hide can be useful then that's less time he has to contemplate how his deformity has affected his life. I think they hit the nail on the head with Michael Chiklis in the Story films casting wise but he was not well served by those scripts. So I would keep the casting in that wheelhouse.
A big bear that can be both menacing and lovable in equal measure.



3.Susan Storm-Richards/The Invisible Woman- Sue is the member of the team that is dealing with it all. And I do mean everything. She is not a scientist as in the Story or Trank films. But what she does have is a natural skill at organization and delegating responsibility. The team but also the Baxter Building and the FFFF could not work without her constant efforts to keep every plate spinning. Sue has a natural gift for PR, and spin, but not in the negative way we think of in say politics. No, she's great at making her case for something and being able to negotiate among people to get it done. It could be an outgrowth of navigating the personalities of the FF or it could be an inborn talent. In any case she is through either nature or circumstance an outgoing extrovert. In NYC she's a sought after celebrity that can bring focus and action to what ever cause the FFFF has in it's cross hairs. She's in a way the team's therapist too. Everyone, even Reed goes to Sue to cry on her shoulder or to complain about the others. This can be overwhelming but Sue keeps her frustrations well hidden under a facade of being a modern woman that's got it all together. She's the one member that thinks it's all on her to make it work when they are not out on an adventure. The adventuring super hero thing is Reed's department. Her domain is everything else that makes the adventures possible. Her marriage, raising her brother, looking out for Ben, running the charities, administering the board for the research the Baxter Building does. She does it all because she has to, which is what many women that balance career and home will tell you. Her codename is a two edged sword. She does so much and does it flawlessly she sometimes feels she is invisible. It's like as though the others often don't get that the team operates as it does due to her herculean efforts. The other side of that sword is that there are days she wishes she could just disappear and let all of this weight be on someone else's shoulders. Sue is not a scientist but she is fascinated by Reed and how he views the world, existence in total. Reed is devoted to truth above all, and in searching for those truths he reveals new wonders to the world. She may get frustrated with the man but he's someone she has complete and total faith in. Sue's ability to improvise also serves her well in the use of her powers. Perhaps more so than even Reed she is the one member of the team that can use her powers in the most versatile way and she is the most inherently dangerous member of the team, something to often overlooked by the FF's adversaries, even Doom. I guess in casting you need a mixture of the gravitas that a Charlize Theron has (and had even when she was quite young) and the everyday womanly smarts and comic timing of a Sarah Chalke type.


4. Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic- Oh boy... Where to start? Okay first off Reed has got to come off a lot less like an egghead and a lot more cool.
Perhaps to the point of arrogance even. If you look at recent adaptations getting across how amazing Reed is because of his intellect more than his power set is seemingly difficult. Making smart cool and interesting is a balancing act, with it's own pitfalls writers fall into regularly. Again, I think the key though is to make Reed and his intelligence cool. The difficulty is not doing it in the way that's currently en vogue. More often than not these days you find fictional geniuses as being depicted as either snobby, arrogant asshats that are separate and cut off from society or others in some way usually emotionally or they are geniuses but lack some aspect of common sense. In any case there is this very ham fisted rule in a lot of stories where there is some heavy personality price to be paid for being so much smarter than everybody else and while it can work to make Cumberbatch's Holmes cool, or Dr. House ect. it also tends to make them off putting in some way.
The other type is the usual socially awkward nerd trope. None of that should apply to Reed. No, for Reed I think the template is another BBC regular...
Doctor Who, or more specifically the affable and endearing take of the Matt Smith/David Tenant years of the Timelord. Here was a super genius that was a little off, sure, and still a science genius but never an ass to those whom it was unwarranted to be so. Funny, always thinking, always observing always game to find out something new. That's Reed to T if I were in charge of the character. I would leaven that with a pinch of social awkwardness but maybe not even that. I would say that Reed is eternally "un-hip" but he's always "cool". Reed isn't keeping up with popular culture because he's unconnected to the wider world and culture. He's more than aware. He just realizes it doesn't really matter. But he is grounded into what does, and that goes beyond his research. He calculates it all into his actions. He isn't blind to politics, nor human emotions and interactions. That sort of analysis on the fly is what gives him such an edge in his adventures and endeavors, both before he gained his powers and after. That's why again, flashbacks are really important. Establish that Reed was a genius that thrilled to adventure as much as to research. Make it that he sees no appreciable difference maybe?
All knowledge is self knowledge could be part of his personal credo. He's not a cold man. His emotions are as keyed into things as anything else. He is fulfilled by finding out new things and going new places and he wants others to be just as excited as he is. He's a rational man but he sees a "spiritual" value in scientific quests, and a beauty in the truth science uncovers about the universe and sentient existence in it. This also makes him the type that takes a lot of effort to surprise on his enemies part. Reed even without his power could walk in and out of CIA headquarters and liberate whatever information he wanted to an no one would ever know he was there. Again, like the Doctor... He's just that cool. No, I would have this version of Reed not be simply a forgetful professor type that shuts himself off from his friends and family all the time. If anything this version of Reed is in fact using his brain all the time to try and serve them in some fashion. Cutting them off knowingly or inadvertently would actually be the signs of someone a lot less bright than Reed is supposed to be. No this is a Reed that has a balance between his emotions and his rationale sides. What makes him a genius is that he can actually navigate those two areas equally. Now that brings up some interesting story points once you establish that because now when he gets to a situation where he must choose between the two, where he can't find the way to solve the problem all around you get to see what his choices will be and it's more likely for the drama to work. If we all assume Reed has a huge emotional blind spot and is an absent minded professor type then when he does just that... Who is gonna be surprised? If you establish that he has got his **** together then it becomes a bigger deal when even he can't square a circle so to speak. Above all the actor needed to play Reed cannot just be a nerdy milquetoast. He has to have a charm, even a magnetism, must be good at playing the collected type but also show the commitment to science because he finds it all so wondrous. I honestly don't even know where to start
with the casting. I will say the story films and the show on CN and the Trank films all missed the mark to varying degrees to my eyes.

And then I sketched out my take on Dr. Doom and how he fits into things.

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How would I do Doctor Doom and the origin of the Fantastic Four



1. Doctor Doom

A lot of FF fans chafe and cringe at the fact that film makers seem to be hesitant at adapting Doom as the majestic monarch and genius he is with all the flamboyance and over the topness we all know from the comics.
I can understand the reticence to a certain degree, but in the end...
larger than life and over the top villains is not anything new to films of all stripes and if anything it fits even more into the world of super hero films.
Even Christopher Nolan's supposed "real world" films contain secret societies and a mastermind villain that has a purple suit, war paint and a punk rock aesthetic. I get keeping Doom a bit grounded but that is a relative thing in
a world where radiation turns men into living rubber bands. So if I had to handle Doom on film today I would start with the idea that he is a well known but also paradoxically secretive figure. Up until the point his full villain goes on display fighting against the Four, I would say the rest of the world finds him an ambiguous figure though he has his fair share of adherents.

In my estimation this is because Victor Von Doom would have been a person on the world stage that has the history and standing of Che, Mandela or Mao.
"Injured" in an accident that seemed to involve equally famous scientist Reed Richards, Von Doom apparently discharged himself from the hospital shortly after being admitted. Subsequently the records from his admission have gone missing with the nurses and doctors that were there to treat him all mysteriously dying in the years after. It's widely assumed Doom suffered some kind of severe facial disfigurement. About a year later Von Doom becomes a public figure fighting against the despotic regime in control of his home nation of Latveria. Without his comic armor and wearing a simple mask with only a small slits for eye holes, Doom became the "face" of the opposition,
at first peaceful but also eventually it's military commander. Doom spoke out against the oppression of the Roma of his country and the lack of government supported education and services for all Latverians. In this he had much of the sympathy and ear of the world. Thus his standing as a pop culture figure of righteous aggression against the powerful to some. An avatar of what he liked to promote as the prideful character of the Latverians Doom refused all outside aide form other countries both when he was simply the peaceful coordinator of the various dissident movements of Latveria, but also once the fighting began.


Instead, Von Doom took his forces to the mountains, the ancestral home of his Romani family, and created from scratch an underground industrial complex which outfitted his troops with weapons and equipment. Eventually Doom's forces win and he of course is proclaimed Supreme President or some such aggrandized title. Claiming the need to lick the nations wounds and bind her together Doom institutes a closed border policy. Shortly after Doom fakes an attempt on his life, video of which makes it's way to the outside world.
Dated about three years before Tony Stark's famous escape from the Ten Rings it seems after this "attempt" on his life Doom began to wear his own powered armor. He tries to cultivate his own aura as a "super hero" of his land to mixed results. Soon after other nations tread carefully against Latveria. Slowly it's been coming out that Doom's rule is despotic in it's own way, even if he has seemingly wiped out poverty in his country. Fear of Doom's loyal troops and stories of hyper advanced technology trickle in and make most leaders uncertain of how to proceed when dealing with Doom. Doom buys off too much prying into his country and the rumored human rights abuse by producing highly lucrative exotic materials in small quantities for export.

2. The Origin of the FF
It's these exotic materials that will eventually connect Doom to the FF.
Reed Richards is a smart man. He's supposed to be a genius of incredible intellect. So... Why was there no radiation shielding in his space craft in the original comics? This has been a point covered again and again with differing rationales in the books. For a film I would first of all assume Reed would have such shielding in place. In fact I would have it that Reed, a highly public figure of science and engineering would be attempting to create low cost space travel. Either directly referencing the X-Prize Foundation or making due with a fictional equivalent. I would make it more than just a simple launch and return but a race. Reed to show his faith in his engineering, creation and pilot, publicizes that he is bringing his fiancee and her brother along for the ride. After all, this is about creating practical space travel for all, right? Thus we now have somewhat of a reason to have two non-aeronautical individuals on board the craft. Reed built the ship with his team but did the lions share of construction with Ben, valuing Ben's test pilot input. As an added degree of difficulty the contest's date happens to coincide with an oncoming burst of naturally occurring radiation along the route of the race as it heads towards the finish. On the day of the race Reed's ship under Ben's control aces it's time and smokes the competition. As it approaches it's final flight path home though the radiation wave hits and instead of reacting as Reed designed it to the ship begins to fall apart, and the occupants are all exposed to the radiation. Luckily Reed has ultra redundant safety features not even in the original plans for the craft and they are saved arriving on land... Of course we know what happens next. They each received powers yadda yadda. What I would have would be that initially unknown to Reed the ship's materials were tampered with. From the source, as Reed's design called for certain cutting edge meta-materials only produced in Latveria. Doom of course was trying to kill Richards, and we learn eventually the reasons: Reed's calculations on the experiment (which also seemed to Reed to have some kind of irrational occult influences) Doom was running at the laboratory complex where they were studying (think someplace like the complex built by CERN, the Large Hadron Collider) were correct. The experiment blew up in Doom's face, though safety measures Reed installed actually saved their lives and resulted in Doom getting only the most minor of scars on one side of his face. And thus the reasons Doom hid his face during the Latverian revolution and why the doctors and nurses that looked him over after the accident had to die. Doom is brilliant, driven, a master of both science and the occult... And a bat guano crazy sociopath. In this version though this need for petty revenge brings about the one force that can counter him. In terms of performer that could handle this and make it all work, the brilliance, the presence, the fragile yet bombastic ego... I honestly don't know.

I like your ideas, I think there should be more of a connection between Sue and Ben. It's something that both the movies and comics seem to often ignore. They've always been the ones with the least amount of interactions.
Your post reminds me a lot of my favorite panels from the recent Marvel 2-in-One. It explained the team perfectly in my opinion.

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Yeah I think the fun thing about setting it in the 60s would be maybe Johnny Storm could bring those happy days style bomber jackets back into fashion



The thing is though you couldn’t use any extra characters like Wyatt wingfoot because they would be super old by the time they get to the modern day. Does anyone know how to make Mole Man or whoever suit the 60s era perfectly?

By the way, speaking of time frames, during the lead up to captain marvel a few of us on the hype made a 90s music Spotify list for captain marvel. It was heaps of fun. Would people be interested in a similar thing for the fantastic four?
 
Namor is a classic Defender. If we can get a Strange, Hulk, and Namor movie in Dr. Strange 2, sign me up :up:
 
Namor is a classic Defender. If we can get a Strange, Hulk, and Namor movie in Dr. Strange 2, sign me up :up:
I've been wanting to see Namor in the MCU for a while. Hopefully he clashes with the F4 eventually too
 
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