Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Zarex]

Do you guys want Franklin and Valerie to show up? Not at first obviously but at some point?

I was first introduced to the team with young Franklin, so I would start with one kid and introduce Valeria either in the second or third installments. Both are fascinating characters and including them early separates the MCU version from the earlier, failed adaptations. It also opens up the possibility of introducing Agatha Harkness, Power Pack, the Future Foundation and an X-Men crossover.

I say don't wait for the third, fifth or twelfth installment before you get to the good stuff. The best version of the FF includes the kids, so don't wait for a sequel that may never come. Have Reed and Sue as young parents juggling their jobs and kids, like that other Disney franchise that was kinda successful.

 

[BobJM]

I was first introduced to the team with young Franklin, so I would start with one kid and introduce Valeria either in the second or third installments. Both are fascinating characters and including them early separates the MCU version from the earlier, failed adaptations. It also opens up the possibility of introducing Agatha Harkness, Power Pack, the Future Foundation and an X-Men crossover.

I say don't wait for the third, fifth or twelfth installment before you get to the good stuff. The best version of the FF includes the kids, so don't wait for a sequel that may never come. Have Reed and Sue as young parents juggling their jobs and kids, like that other Disney franchise that was kinda successful.

I agree, have an infant/toddler Franklin in the first film w/ HERBIE or another character serving as babysitter while the family’s battling Mole Man monsters or some such.

Franklin needs to be around so one day he can defeat Onslaught & reset the MCU, giving us an in-continuity reason to recast our superheroes in a ‘Heroes Reborn’ era of MCU (but this time, good!).

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I agree, have an infant/toddler Franklin in the first film w/ HERBIE or another character serving as babysitter while the family’s battling Mole Man monsters or some such.

The secondary FF character I was most excited to see was Agatha Harkness, but if she's going to be featured in Wandavision, I don't know if she'll come out of it in a way that would allow her to be FF babysitter.

 

[DawnWarrior]

What, are we assuming she'll wind up a skeleton like in Disassembled? It's a little early for that.

I also think it's time to bring back Wyatt Wingfoot. Let's get some proper First Nation representation in the MCU already.

 

[Detective Conan]

Happy fifteenth anniversary to the least worst Fox Fantastic Four ever made!

 

[Kirmit]

I recently rewatched Rise of the Silver Surfer and have to say it really wasn’t that bad, some things were really spot on. Johnny storm I thought was really good and Chris Evans played it well. The Thing’s character was good, his look is downright awful but they nailed his personality. Lastly the Surfer was really well done, the look and effects still hold up and again his personality actually felt like the character. Obviously there was a lot wrong, Doom for example, but I felt surprised that after watching it I didn’t completely hate it. Anyway, just my two cents.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yeah it’s funny I also came to that conclusion. You can see they tried and they did want to put in Easter eggs mcu style but they just didn’t know at that point how to do it right. Plus the Galactus thing just soured everyone

 

[Albright]

I do have a feeling, that the Fantastic 4 won‘t be 4 white people.
Though I‘d prefer someone in the X-Men being black instead of like they were in the comics, like Prof. X, Cyclops,...

I‚m ok with a black Reed Richards: casting ideas are Donald Glover, John David Washington, Lakeith Stanfield as rumored.

But I want Susan blonde - probably the last blonde longhaired superhero (CM received her Karen-haircut in Endgame)

 

[Dark Raven]

I still want Lily James as Sue. She currently seems to be dating Chris Evans, so maybe he'd recommend her for the part.

 

[Iceman]

I recently rewatched Rise of the Silver Surfer and have to say it really wasn’t that bad, some things were really spot on. Johnny storm I thought was really good and Chris Evans played it well. The Thing’s character was good, his look is downright awful but they nailed his personality. Lastly the Surfer was really well done, the look and effects still hold up and again his personality actually felt like the character. Obviously there was a lot wrong, Doom for example, but I felt surprised that after watching it I didn’t completely hate it. Anyway, just my two cents.

Yeah, there are definitely some positives in there. I’m glad we got to see a version of Surfer. Crazy how badly Doom has been mucked up in every film to date.

 

[Crimz]

I do have a feeling, that the Fantastic 4 won‘t be 4 white people.
Though I‘d prefer someone in the X-Men being black instead of like they were in the comics, like Prof. X, Cyclops,...

I‚m ok with a black Reed Richards: casting ideas are Donald Glover, John David Washington, Lakeith Stanfield as rumored.

But I want Susan blonde - probably the last blonde longhaired superhero (CM received her Karen-haircut in Endgame)

You've made Thor really sad.

I'd personally prefer them to change the race of a member or two of the team. But I wouldn't be mad if they decided to have them all white. I don't believe the X-Men should be the only ones that can be racially changed to be more diverse due to what they represent. Nothing about the Fantastic Four necessitates them being white.
On Sue being blonde, plenty of women of color have dyed their hair blonde so it could be the same for MCU Sue. She doesn't need to be white to rock the blonde look.

 

[Dark Raven]

I recently rewatched Rise of the Silver Surfer and have to say it really wasn’t that bad, some things were really spot on. Johnny storm I thought was really good and Chris Evans played it well. The Thing’s character was good, his look is downright awful but they nailed his personality. Lastly the Surfer was really well done, the look and effects still hold up and again his personality actually felt like the character. Obviously there was a lot wrong, Doom for example, but I felt surprised that after watching it I didn’t completely hate it. Anyway, just my two cents.

I preferred the look of Surfer when he stopped being so shiny once he'd been separated from his board. He looked more real then. Before, he looked more like a CGI creation using a default figure with no details. Also I didn't think they got his eyes right as in the comics.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I recently rewatched Rise of the Silver Surfer and have to say it really wasn’t that bad, some things were really spot on. Johnny storm I thought was really good and Chris Evans played it well. The Thing’s character was good, his look is downright awful but they nailed his personality. Lastly the Surfer was really well done, the look and effects still hold up and again his personality actually felt like the character. Obviously there was a lot wrong, Doom for example, but I felt surprised that after watching it I didn’t completely hate it. Anyway, just my two cents.

The raw material was there, and I think a better director could have made a much better film on the same skeleton.

It was a film about the end of the freakin' world, but it felt completely small and petty in that context.

If I were director, I would have cut everything related to Doom (which was just a head-scratching distraction from the real story), I would have cut all the terrible moments (like the dance scene), and I would have played up the drama and intensity of what was happening. And if, as Tim Story claimed, the studio didn't want to show Galactus so they could save him for a different film, I'd at least show him - from behind, in shadows etc. - so it was clear an intelligent being was at work and actually eating the planet and it wasn't just some sort of cosmic storm.

The idea of being attacked by a bear is much more intense than the idea of, for example, falling off a cliff, because the idea of being hunted by another creature that just sees you as food pulls certain levers in our psyche.

 

[terry78]

Fox basically had the rep for cheaping out on a lot of stuff when it came to spectacle. Now that they're under Disney they rarely have an excuse.

 

[Detective Conan]

I recently rewatched Rise of the Silver Surfer and have to say it really wasn’t that bad, some things were really spot on. Johnny storm I thought was really good and Chris Evans played it well. The Thing’s character was good, his look is downright awful but they nailed his personality. Lastly the Surfer was really well done, the look and effects still hold up and again his personality actually felt like the character. Obviously there was a lot wrong, Doom for example, but I felt surprised that after watching it I didn’t completely hate it. Anyway, just my two cents.

It’s not that bad, but I think it is worse than the original because the script was really messy, and Doom’s motivation makes even less sense than in the first.

But I kind of like the scene where Reed’s stands up for himself to speech to General Hager(played by Brooklyn’s Nines Andre Braugher, who was originally supposed to play Nick Fury) when he gives a speech about being married to the “hottest woman on the planet” and being a “good little nerd.”


Which is taken almost verbatim from his speech to Nick Fury in Ultimate Extinction #2.



Both FF and ROTSS still stuck less than Fan4stic, though.

 

[Web-Head]

I recently rewatched Rise of the Silver Surfer and have to say it really wasn’t that bad, some things were really spot on. Johnny storm I thought was really good and Chris Evans played it well. The Thing’s character was good, his look is downright awful but they nailed his personality. Lastly the Surfer was really well done, the look and effects still hold up and again his personality actually felt like the character. Obviously there was a lot wrong, Doom for example, but I felt surprised that after watching it I didn’t completely hate it. Anyway, just my two cents.

It's okay. Certainly worse than the first one, but I think both are fine. Typically not movies I'd go out of my way to watch, but if they're on tv and there's nothing else on? Sure, why not. The best thing about both Story films are Johnny and Ben.

I do have a feeling, that the Fantastic 4 won‘t be 4 white people.
Though I‘d prefer someone in the X-Men being black instead of like they were in the comics, like Prof. X, Cyclops,...

I‚m ok with a black Reed Richards: casting ideas are Donald Glover, John David Washington, Lakeith Stanfield as rumored.

But I want Susan blonde - probably the last blonde longhaired superhero (CM received her Karen-haircut in Endgame)

I can see Reed and/or Ben being "racebent" I still want Oscar Isaac for Reed, but I don't see that happening now. Who knows what Marvel will do? The Four are my most anticipated casting coming up though. Cant wait to see who gets the roles.

I still want Lily James as Sue. She currently seems to be dating Chris Evans, so maybe he'd recommend her for the part.

Lily would make a great Sue

 

[terry78]

Ben will probably be the one they'll make black or latino so they can have a loophole of sorts.

 

[Detective Conan]

Ben will probably be the one they'll make black or latino so they can have a loophole of sorts.

I’ve seen some pushback on the idea of casting a black person as Ben Grimm because they’re like, “The Thing is Jewish, he can’t be black!”....ignoring the fact that there is such thing as black Jews.

 

[Detective Conan]

On Sue being blonde, plenty of women of color have dyed their hair blonde so it could be the same for MCU Sue. She doesn't need to be white to rock the blonde look.

If they racebend Sue, I’d rather they not have her rock the blonde look, especially if the actress doesn’t look good in that hair color. I think what’s most important is the acting talent, and how well the actor captures the spirit of the comic character. Forcing blonde hair or any hair color different from the natural hair color from the POC actress just wouldn’t look good, imo. look at what happened with Alba and that awkward dye job and blue contacts. They would’ve been better off if they let her act in natural hair and eye color.

Tessa Thompson’s Valkyie is a good example of what to do. Even if the comparison is a bit imperfect considering that Sue is a much higher profile character than valkyrie. Tessa Thompson crushed the role, and they didn’t need to make her go blonde or give her blue contacts to make her better resemble the comic book version.

Heck even when they cast white people for white comic book characters they don’t always keep faithful to the hair color. Look at Hawkeye, who has blonde hair but Marvel still has Renner go with his natural dark hair instead of wearing a blonde wig or dying his hair blonde, and Daredevil where even though they cast a white guy in the role, Charlie Cox’s Matt Murdock still doesn’t have red hair like the comic book version does, neither does Paul Rudd’s Scott Lang.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I’ve seen some pushback on the idea of casting a black person as Ben Grimm because they’re like, “The Thing is Jewish, he can’t be black!”....ignoring the fact that there is such thing as black Jews.

This is technically true, but Judaism is two things - it's a religion and it's an ethnic group. Jack Kirby and Stan Lee were both Jewish kids from NY city and with all the interest in diversity in the MCU, I think it's a shame that we don't have someone to represent the two people who created Marvel as we know it ( who were members of an oppressed minority when they were growing up ).

Being Jewish in 2020 isn't really the same as being Jewish in 1930, but I still think if the ethnicity of one character in the FF is maintained, it should be Ben, because his ethnicity wasn't just randomly pulled from a hat like many comic characters.

 

[bcztheinternet]

lakeith is rumored for reed? lets goooo. not suprised considering his Atlanta co-stars all have Marvel roles, the director of Shang Chi kickstarted his career, and he's worked with Tessa Thompson before. and lakeith himself said he wants to play more racebent characters.


#1 priority is H.E.R.B.I.E. above all else.

 

[bcztheinternet]

Do you guys have any picks for Doom? I hope they stay true to Victor's Romani heritage and find an unknown, talented romani actor out there who could play him, BUT, finding someone who's handsome, romani, perfect for Victor look wise, AND talented enough to play him for around a decade is a very rare scenario.

Hopefully there's someone out there perfect for the role. If Marvel can't find that someone, then Cillian Murphy is my pick.

 

[Crimz]

If they racebend Sue, I’d rather they not have her rock the blonde look, especially if the actress doesn’t look good in that hair color. I think what’s most important is the acting talent, and how well the actor captures the spirit of the comic character. Forcing blonde hair or any hair color different from the natural hair color from the POC actress just wouldn’t look good, imo. look at what happened with Alba and that awkward dye job and blue contacts. They would’ve been better off if they let her act in natural hair and eye color.

Tessa Thompson’s Valkyie is a good example of what to do. Even if the comparison is a bit imperfect considering that Sue is a much higher profile character than valkyrie. Tessa Thompson crushed the role, and they didn’t need to make her go blonde or give her blue contacts to make her better resemble the comic book version.

Heck even when they cast white people for white comic book characters they don’t always keep faithful to the hair color. Look at Hawkeye, who has blonde hair but Marvel still has Renner go with his natural dark hair instead of wearing a blonde wig or dying his hair blonde, and Daredevil where even though they cast a white guy in the role, Charlie Cox’s Matt Murdock still doesn’t have red hair like the comic book version does, neither does Paul Rudd’s Scott Lang.

I'm not saying that they should, just that if the actress is not white it doesn't automatically mean Sue won't be blonde.

But as you said, it depends on who they pick and what look they are going for.

 

[killface]

Never thought of him for the role but Cillian Murphy as Doom would knock it out of the park

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Adam Driver would give Doom the presence he deserves.