Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[CaptainWagner]

Why would Wizard be the villain in a Inhumans based villain over Maximus the Mad?

Because Maximus is ALWAYS the villains in Inhumans based stories? I for one am personally quite tired of the trend of having the hero face off with their nemesis in the beginning film. Especially someone like Maximus, who benefits from getting to know them well pre-heel turn.

The Wizard is a fairly simple villain, but so is Mole Man, and he's the most popular choice for the villain of the first movie. As a wise man once said, there are no bad characters, just weak writers. Especially in today's climate, you could have Wizard as a pseudo-science hack who steals his best ideas and sells his "expertise" to the highest bidder to manipulate as they see fit. He sees knowledge as a means to profit whereas Reed sees it as a means to better humanity. He could even try to steal away Johnny with that ideology.

 

[SumT]

so Oscar Isaac out of the reboot. lol.
interesting how Marvel is signing quite a lot of Fox actors this soon imo.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Its been almost 2 years since the acquisition, they're tied to dead franchises. Might as well scoop them before someone else does.

 

[metaphysician]

But that is what I am saying, either the Frightful Four should be part of an action set piece at the beginning of the movie or they can be henchmen for a better villain. Wizard would more a threat if he wasn't so arrogant that his ego far outmatches his abilities, if he was a merc leader who did jobs for fun and profit is more believable than Wizard posing any direct intellectual threat to Reed and being jealous of Reed.

I don't think the Frightful Four would really work as henchmen for someone bigger ( anyone bigger-enough to be a main villain for the FF should really be able to supply their own ), but as a cold open obstacle? Sure, that could work. "Here is this pathetic second rate villain trying to take on the Fantastic Four with his team of allies, and loses badly, giving a flashy demonstration of what the Fantastic Four do in between major foes. Now, on to the plot!" Basically make a point out of how the Wizard is *not* a major threat, sort of like how Justin Hammer wasn't really a threat, in himself.

. . . which also has the side benefit of allowing you to have the Wizard or the Frightful Four show up *elsewhere*, possibly against other heroes for whom they *are* a serious threat. Thus allowing a subtext of "Pathetic does not mean harmless".

 

[The Overlord]

Because Maximus is ALWAYS the villains in Inhumans based stories? I for one am personally quite tired of the trend of having the hero face off with their nemesis in the beginning film. Especially someone like Maximus, who benefits from getting to know them well pre-heel turn.

The Wizard is a fairly simple villain, but so is Mole Man, and he's the most popular choice for the villain of the first movie. As a wise man once said, there are no bad characters, just weak writers. Especially in today's climate, you could have Wizard as a pseudo-science hack who steals his best ideas and sells his "expertise" to the highest bidder to manipulate as they see fit. He sees knowledge as a means to profit whereas Reed sees it as a means to better humanity. He could even try to steal away Johnny with that ideology.

I am not a huge Mole Man fan (frankly I think a lot of the FF's rogues gallery needs a revamp, a lot of them seem to have been in a rut since 1969), but I do think Mole Man has a better gimmick than Wizard (controlling monsters vs. a generic mad scientist) and has more potential for either pathos or menace (Mole Man could be a tragic character or the ultimate Incel).

The problem with Wizard is he is too evil to be sympathetic, but not evil enough to scary or creepy, he is just an obnoxious jerk. Dr. Doom has a tragic backstory, Annhilus is a nightmarish force that brings death to everything he meets, and the Wizard is some jerk who decided to become a public super villain and throw away a comfy civilian life due to boredom or really petty jealousy and seems to blame the FF for him being stupid enough to do that in the first place.

Wizard seems so obsessed with besting the FF, that he doesn't even seem to pose much of a threat to the general public.
I also think Wizard trying to fight Reed with pseudoscience would be a pretty short fight and would not make him menacing enough to carry a movie. Wizard would need a total to revamp to carry a movie.

Maximus is better at carrying an Inhuman based movie than the Wizard can.

 

[fan4stic]

Henry Golding as Reed
Dianna Agron as Sue
Robert Kazinsky as Ben
Timothée Chalamet or Dacre Montgomery as Johnny
Rami Malek or Michael Fassbender as Doom

 

[Crimz]

Oliver Jackson-Cohen was a popular fancast for Moon Knight but with Oscar Isaac likely in the role, I hope Marvel scoops him up to play Ben. Jackson-Cohen is a good actor and would seem to be fine with being CG most of the time as he played the Invisible Man in that horror film.

 

[The Overlord]

A big question is how many FF villains can carry a movie:

Dr. Doom obviously can carry a movie, but considering how he was misused in the past, he would work better as a mastermind in the background.

Galactus clearly can carry a movie, but he should be in the last FF movie, not the first, you cannot get bigger stakes than him.

Annihilus can also carry a film, but he is the second most high stakes villain.

Mole Man might be able to carry a movie, but only the first film, he might work as a villain the FF have to fight when they starting out and not experienced, past the first film he wouldn't be much of a threat, but he could work for a first adventure, but he would need some interesting characterization, would he be sympathetic or nightmarish?

Maximus the Mad could carry an Inhuman based movie.

Red Ghost seems like a Cold War relic that doesn't really work in the modern era.

The Mad Thinker is an interesting character but is tricky to write well, kinda like the Riddler, he is often written as a bland villain because he is kinda hard to write well.

Diablo is an okay villain, but I am not sure he can carry a movie.

Puppet Master has an interesting gimmick but is kinda a meh character, his stepdaughter is interesting and his relationship with her makes him a little more interesting than other B-list FF villains, but he is not a well-defined character in the comics.

I find Wizard and the Frightful Four to be really weak villains, they should be henchmen or first act action villains.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Hulk? I think a good writer could pull off an interesting story

Namor

Thundra (I'd like to see her introduced in an FF film and then spun-off to her own film)

Psycho Man

Salem's Seven

Molecule Man (his power needs to be defined/limited in some way - in the comics, it seems like he can do just about anything)

I think it's all about the writing and some characters will have to be "fixed" to work well in a film.

I also think the FF's villains shouldn't be viewed strictly as traditional villains.

Something like the Infant Terrible or the Monster from the Lost Lagoon could be the basis for a sci-fi story. Part of the reason the FF don't have a similar rogue's gallery to other characters is they're often involved in adventures where the conflict resolution is understanding rather than defeating the foe.

 

[metaphysician]

I wouldn't say that Molecule Man necessarily needs his powers *that* defined/limited. The key is to use him as something other than "Here's someone you need to beat up". He's a powerful superhuman with issues of personality and control, with the primary challenge being to understand him, as a person, so as to reach and help him. The Fantastic Four doesn't win by finally reducing his HP to zero in the third act, they win by a mix of persuading him to stand down and helping him work through his issues, so that he is no longer a threat because he no longer wants to be a threat.

 

[C. Lee]

Did you know that at the start of his career, Ben Grimm made a low budget horror movie to pay the rent?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I wouldn't say that Molecule Man necessarily needs his powers *that* defined/limited. The key is to use him as something other than "Here's someone you need to beat up". He's a powerful superhuman with issues of personality and control, with the primary challenge being to understand him, as a person, so as to reach and help him. The Fantastic Four doesn't win by finally reducing his HP to zero in the third act, they win by a mix of persuading him to stand down and helping him work through his issues, so that he is no longer a threat because he no longer wants to be a threat.

When I mentioned "defining/limiting his powers" part of my concern is I remember FF 188 when he takes over Reed's body and animates a building. Okay, I get that he can, for example, turn the FF into glass-statues by swapping their molecules, but I don't get how that translates to animating a building.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Did you know that at the start of his career, Ben Grimm made a low budget horror movie to pay the rent?

I remember seeing that as a kid and noting the resemblance.

I also remember getting my hopes up for a brief moment when I heard John Carpenter was going to make a film called "The Thing"

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I really need a MCU Human Torch in my life.

 

[Iceman]

Did you know that at the start of his career, Ben Grimm made a low budget horror movie to pay the rent?

I need to see this now.

 

[Detective Conan]

I really need a MCU Human Torch in my life.

He’s coming sooner than you think.

 

[Iceman]

I really need a MCU Human Torch in my life.

It will be interesting to see how he compares with Evans. I’m really looking forward to seeing the whole F4 and a properly done Doom.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

He’s coming sooner than you think.

Oh I hope so with all my heart.

 

[metaphysician]

When I mentioned "defining/limiting his powers" part of my concern is I remember FF 188 when he takes over Reed's body and animates a building. Okay, I get that he can, for example, turn the FF into glass-statues by swapping their molecules, but I don't get how that translates to animating a building.

Honestly, I think the audience would be fine with "He's a really frickin' powerful matter manipulator". I would say the bigger plausibility issue is "Why doesn't he just turn them to glass?" Which, I can think of two plot solutions, aside from the simple "He can't effect living matter" fiat:

1. Molecule Man's transmutations are powerful but temporary. If he turns a human to stone with his powers, after he's left the area and time has passed, the stone turns back to an intact, alive human. Thus, him simply transmuting his opponents is a victory, but not the end of the story. It also means you can have him do crazy big things, like animating a skyscraper, but still avoid complete Endor Holocaust issues, because after the scene it reverts ( though perhaps with a note that the transmutation reverts, but not everything the transmuted matter *does*, so if you drown in a pool of concrete that was turned to water, you are still dead ). Which leads to. . .

2. The Fantastic Four develop a counter that protects them, allowing for further confrontations. Two simple words: "Unstable Molecules". If there is any comic book macguffin suited for explaining a resistance to transmutation, its that. Or basically, read takes the phlebotinum mentioned in an earlier movie as the means for their power-friendly costumes, and applies the tech to make their whole body's "unstable", and thus resistant to being transformed.

 

[Crimz]

Honestly, I think the audience would be fine with "He's a really frickin' powerful matter manipulator". I would say the bigger plausibility issue is "Why doesn't he just turn them to glass?" Which, I can think of two plot solutions, aside from the simple "He can't effect living matter" fiat:

1. Molecule Man's transmutations are powerful but temporary. If he turns a human to stone with his powers, after he's left the area and time has passed, the stone turns back to an intact, alive human. Thus, him simply transmuting his opponents is a victory, but not the end of the story. It also means you can have him do crazy big things, like animating a skyscraper, but still avoid complete Endor Holocaust issues, because after the scene it reverts ( though perhaps with a note that the transmutation reverts, but not everything the transmuted matter *does*, so if you drown in a pool of concrete that was turned to water, you are still dead ). Which leads to. . .

2. The Fantastic Four develop a counter that protects them, allowing for further confrontations. Two simple words: "Unstable Molecules". If there is any comic book macguffin suited for explaining a resistance to transmutation, its that. Or basically, read takes the phlebotinum mentioned in an earlier movie as the means for their power-friendly costumes, and applies the tech to make their whole body's "unstable", and thus resistant to being transformed.

Also Sue comes in clutch against Molecule Man as he can't effect her force-fields.

 

[Detective Conan]

MCU Fantastic Four has apparently been given the green-lit at Marvel Studios.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

MCU Fantastic Four has apparently been given the green-lit at Marvel Studios.

2023 would be cool.

... with maybe some characters and build-up prior to that.

 

[MbJ]

Production Weekly has, in addition to stuff already confirmed like Ms. Marvel and Doctor Strange 2, a listing for a Fantastic Four project.

Production Weekly – Issue 1220 – Thursday, November 12, 2020 / 208 Listings - 46 Pages - Production Weekly

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Production Weekly has, in addition to stuff already confirmed like Ms. Marvel and Doctor Strange 2, a listing for a Fantastic Four project.

Production Weekly – Issue 1220 – Thursday, November 12, 2020 / 208 Listings - 46 Pages - Production Weekly

Can you add any context to that? Do they list things based on real info. or are they just picking up on the “Solve Everything” info that’s being reported?

 

[Silvermoth]

I am obsessed with this