Comics One More Day Discussion Thread

[stillanerd]

First off, it's Berman. Second of all, a quick google indicates that Matt Damon has nothing to do with this.

Thanks for the corrections, iloveclones. Couldn't remember if it was Bergman or Berman. As for the Matt Damon playing the role of Captain Kirk, the last I had heard was that he was being considered for the role, but, seeing how I just did the google search, and just found out Chris Pine will be playing the part. Plus I found this on wikipedia:

For some time it was widely rumored that Matt Damon would play Kirk in the movie. Damon, upon hearing the rumors, including comments from William Shatner giving him a "seal of approval" for the role, contacted Abrams to ascertain the truth, only to be told that the Kirk in the film was a younger man and he was "too old" for the part. Damon commented that if sequels are made featuring an older Kirk than that portrayed by Pine, then he would be interested in playing the role.

So my mistake. Still, the point I was trying to make, I believe, still stands.

 

[iloveclones]

I disagree with your comparison also. I don't think ST was searching for a younger audience (any more than any entertainment venue tries to). Just the opposite, I think they were packaging the same product over and over deperately trying to hold on to the fans that they had.

 

[stillanerd]

I disagree with your comparison also. I don't think ST was searching for a younger audience (any more than any entertainment venue tries to). Just the opposite, I think they were packaging the same product over and over deperately trying to hold on to the fans that they had.

Oh, I'm sure that Star Trek was also trying to hold into it's fanbase like you say, but they certainly were trying to attract the younger crowd, considering what the newer shows were like, and considering how the vast majority of entertainment tries to cater to a younger demographic by your own admission. After all, Trekkies are an "aging" fanbase as well, just like Spider-Man fans. Nevertheless, Star Trek still alienated it's core fan base of long-time fans in a misguided attempt to breathe life into the franchise and it could be argued that Marvel is doing the same with regards to Spider-Man and this latest attempt by Marvel. Also, I can't help but read your statement of "packaging the same product over and over desperately trying to hold on to the fans they had" as being more than a little ironic when it comes to what's going on with Spider-Man and Brand New Day right now.

 

[iloveclones]

You can see it as ironic, but I see them as different things. I've thought for many, many years that the marriage was a mistake. Undoing it, is merely correcting a mistake, in my opinion. I have no expectation that "young fans" will start rolling in, in droves. But I do expect them to make good on their claim to "tell stories that they can't with a married Peter." Good start (again, imo)

I wasn't alienated by ST, of which I was a fan, just bored. I'm not at all alienated by Spidey. Just the opposite.

 

[stillanerd]

You can see it as ironic, but I see them as different things. I've thought for many, many years that the marriage was a mistake. Undoing it, is merely correcting a mistake, in my opinion. I have no expectation that "young fans" will start rolling in, in droves. But I do expect them to make good on their claim to "tell stories that they can't with a married Peter." Good start (again, imo)

I wasn't alienated by ST, of which I was a fan, just bored. I'm not at all alienated by Spidey. Just the opposite.

All fair and good, and even though I liked the marriage between Peter and MJ, I can understand why folks thought it was a mistake and even I admit he's a more interesting character when he's single, but you can say that about any fictional character as well. Ideally, I think Spider-Man should still be roughly the same age or a few years older than Robin, but just because he's older it didn't ruin him, IMO. However, just realize that the last two attempts to undo the marriage--the clone saga and the plane explosion--didn't go over well with readers and, if history is any indication, this may not as well.

 

[iloveclones]

Oh, I have no doubt that it won't go over well. I'm not delusional. I'm just curious as to whether JQ, et al, have the balls to ride it out. Personally, I hope so.

 

[stillanerd]

Well, once Brand New Day rides itself out and Marvel gives us all the answers to what's really going on (personally I think they're setting up another crossover event with the Marvel Heroes vs. Mephisto and revealing how he tied in with Avengers: Dissassembled, House of M, Civil War, and One More Day, of course), even if/when Peter and MJ get back together as a couple (and I'm sure, given her popularity it's bound to happen) Marvel will make it so that they won't get married any time soon and keep them locked in the dating stage. I imagine that, similar to House of M, Peter will still retain his memories of the "Brand New Day" world but no longer remember what his old world used to be like even when he's told (I'd love to see a reaction from him along the lines of "Why would I be stupid enough to reveal my identity to the entire world, let alone make a half-baked deal right out of Faust. I mean I've seen enough horror movies not to do anything THAT stupid."), but will grieve over what he lost, and try to have a second chance with MJ as a result.

 

[iloveclones]

I think people overestimate MJs popularity. I know that might seem a counterintuitive thing to say at the moment, but when MJ can sustain her own title, I'll warm to the argument. As far as I see it, the title is 'The Amazing Spider-Man.' Not 'Amazing Spider-Man and JJJ' or '...and Aunt May' or '...and MJ'. Those characters exist solely to enrich or enhance the title character. Spider-Man existed a long time before MJ, and I'm confidant (if JQ and whoever comes after have at least a little backbone) that he will exist for a long time after. And thrive.

 

[stillanerd]

I think people overestimate MJs popularity. I know that might seem a counterintuitive thing to say at the moment, but when MJ can sustain her own title, I'll warm to the argument. As far as I see it, the title is 'The Amazing Spider-Man.' Not 'Amazing Spider-Man and JJJ' or '...and Aunt May' or '...and MJ'. Those characters exist solely to enrich or enhance the title character. Spider-Man existed a long time before MJ, and I'm confidant (if JQ and whoever comes after have at least a little backbone) that he will exist for a long time after. And thrive.

Well, there IS "Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane." Plus you have a very popular movie franchise which has cemented in the minds of a lot of people that Mary Jane is Peter "one true love," even if it didn't play out that way in the comics. But yes, in the end, these are supporting characters and the comic is about Peter Parker first and foremost. However, it was the supporting cast and the fact that they were real people that was part of Spider-Man's uniqueness, and there are certainly more important and essentially supporting characters than others. At least Brand New Day IS bringing back that supporting cast and is planning on utilizing them. Marvel not using them over the years was a far bigger problem than the marriage in my opinion.

 

[iloveclones]

Well, there IS "Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane." .

I was actually going to put that in parentheses, but it hasn't come out in a while. One of those few marvel titles to bring in teen girls, a very elusive demographic. I buy it for my girlfriend's 14 yr old daughter. The same one who asked me if she could read my Amazings after I told her what was going on in them. Make of it what you will.

 

[Abaddon]

so is anything positive that might come of this? Is Norman dead? Will Ben Reilly be back? Are the Stacy's(Arthur and Jill) stil around?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

There's another example more closely related to this than the "New Coke" debacle--not that it isn't a bad comparison.

Star Trek.

When Rick Bergman took over the franchise after Gene Roddenberry died, he also tried to attract new viewers to the various spin-offs of the Next Generation, emphasizing more action, political intrigue, and sex in order to stay one step ahead of it's competitor at the time, JMS' Babylon 5.

I assume your talking about Deep Space Nine here when you refere to a Star Trek spin-off trying to step ahead of it's competitor Babylon 5..

This is a very bad compaireson to the Spiderman debackle because DS9 is highly reguraded as the best written of all the Star Trek spin-offs with the best character development.

We also got shows like "Yoyager" and "Enterprise" out of the deal which were, by a large, recycled versions of better episodes of the original series and TNG, only with "hipper" and "edgier" characters. And the fans of Trek hated it. It all came to a head with "Star Trek:Nemesis" which was poorly received at the box office and, despite featuring the TNG cast, even fans of Trek hated it.

Here I can agree.

 

[Venom 1988]

Is Norman dead?

No

Will Ben Reilly be back?

No

Are the Stacy's(Arthur and Jill) stil around?

Who knows, we havent seen them since the 90s

 

[stillanerd]

I assume your talking about Deep Space Nine here when you refere to a Star Trek spin-off trying to step ahead of it's competitor Babylon 5..

This is a very bad compaireson to the Spiderman debackle because DS9 is highly reguraded as the best written of all the Star Trek spin-offs with the best character development.

Well, I wasn't trying to limit it to Deep Space Nine. However, both DS9 and Babylon 5 aired right around the same time (DS9 came a few weeks before B5 aired) and there was controversy that each one was copying the other. Granted, they both took completely different tracks, but it seems to me that Berman really started trying to get edgier with the Trek Franchise as a whole IN RESPONSE to Babylon 5, and was certainly trying to attract an audience beyond the "Trekkies." Sort of how Joe Quesada is trying to attract an audience beyond the typical "Marvel Zombie."

This is not to say that I think Deep Space Nine is crap. Far, far from it. I will agree that that's when the franchise as a whole was at it's peak and certainly was the last great Star Trek series. When they won the Hugos for "The Vistor" (The one with Tony Todd playing the Elder Jake and the time-displaced Sisko--fantastic SF!) and the one when they go back to the Tribble episode from the original series (WORF: We DON'T like to talk about it!" LOL) at least they were doing something right.

EDIT: interesting side-note--when Deep Space Nine first aired followed by Babylon 5, JMS initially tried to sue Paramount for copyright infringement.

Babylon 5 creator, J. Michael Straczynski, indicated that Paramount was aware of his concept as early as 1989 when he attempted to sell the show to the studio, and provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and plot synopses for the first 22 episodes. Paramount rejected Babylon 5, but it was later picked-up by WB subsidiary PTEN in 1991, and Mr. Stracznyski has stated on numerous occasions (in his newsgroup rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated), he thinks Paramount used his bible and scripts as the basis for DS9's first season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine#Criticism

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Well, I wasn't trying to limit it to Deep Space Nine. However, both DS9 and Babylon 5 aired right around the same time (DS9 came a few weeks before B5 aired) and there was controversy that each one was copying the other. Granted, they both took completely different tracks, but it seems to me that Berman really started trying to get edgier with the Trek Franchise as a whole IN RESPONSE to Babylon 5, and was certainly trying to attract an audience beyond the "Trekkies." Sort of how Joe Quesada is trying to attract an audience beyond the typical "Marvel Zombie."

That's one way of looking at it but I always felt that Berman's choice to make the show more edgier or for a lack of a better term "Dirty" was in responce to Rodenberry's death.

Berman wanted to make TNG a bit more dirty for years.He wanted a War or two and always felt that TNG was a bit to sterile.I've read interviews of his where he claimed that he suggested to Rodenberry more then once that if the Enterprise D was so close to being destroyed, like it was in so many episodes, that the Bridge should look more dismaied then it did.

That there should be more explosion's on the bridge, fires, panels falling from the celings and so on.But most of the time the most we got was a few lights would turn off.

I believe that the only reason Berman did not make the changes he wanted to when GR died was out of respect for him.

But its a hudge noticable difference that the first serries to be made after GR's death was a hell of a lot dirtier.

This is not to say that I think Deep Space Nine is crap. Far, far from it. I will agree that that's when the franchise as a whole was at it's peak and certainly was the last great Star Trek series. When they won the Hugos for "The Vistor" (The one with Tony Todd playing the Elder Jake and the time-displaced Sisko--fantastic SF!) and the one when they go back to the Tribble episode from the original series (WORF: We DON'T like to talk about it!" LOL) at least they were doing something right.

I would agree 100%

EDIT: interesting side-note--when Deep Space Nine first aired followed by Babylon 5, JMS initially tried to sue Paramount for copyright infringement.

It's no shock that his law suit failed.The first script for DS9 was written 1 1/2 years before Rodenberry died.

 

[Havok83]

If Peter has his secret identity again, then what does that mean for New Avengers? Does everyone automatically forget over in that book?

 

[Blader5489]

If Peter has his secret identity again, then what does that mean for New Avengers? Does everyone automatically forget over in that book?

NA is a little behind the times anyway (e.g. Spidey is still wearing the black costume), so it might be a month or two before Bendis can even address that.

 

[Havok83]

NA is a little behind the times anyway (e.g. Spidey is still wearing the black costume), so it might be a month or two before Bendis can even address that.

speaking of which, why did he stop wearing the black costume? What issue did he take it off in?

 

[Blader5489]

speaking of which, why did he stop wearing the black costume? What issue did he take it off in?

Hasn't been explained yet, and may never be. If I had to guess though, I think the black costume might get ruined in the final battle with the Hood in NA Annual #2.

 

[Sloth7d]

speaking of which, why did he stop wearing the black costume? What issue did he take it off in?

It was a marketting scheme. But if you want an in-universe explanation, I guess he only wanted to wear it up until he found the person responsible for Aunt May's condition. He did, so he took it off. That's the best I got.

 

[farmernudie]

And when they ask him why he changed back OUT of his black, Pete won't remember because aunt may doesn't know him now in this alternate reality.

BUt, since he never married in this world, wouldn't he technically be wearing it still?

 

[Abaddon]

wait, Aunt May is back to not knowing he's Spider-Man? Oh lame lame lame lame lame.

 

[Sloth7d]

And when they ask him why he changed back OUT of his black, Pete won't remember because aunt may doesn't know him now in this alternate reality.

BUt, since he never married in this world, wouldn't he technically be wearing it still?

And wouldn't the Richocet costume no longer exist since MJ designed that for him while they were still together?

 

[Blader5489]

And wouldn't the Richocet costume no longer exist since MJ designed that for him while they were still together?

For the last time (though I'm sure this won't be the last time), Pete and MJ have still been together for the past 20 years.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

BUt, since he never married in this world, wouldn't he technically be wearing it still?

Not necessarily.J.Q. said that were still a couple so Venom may still have attacked her and Pete may have still have givven it up.

And besides I can think of a few reasons why he might have stpoed useing the black suit.

And wouldn't the Richocet costume no longer exist since MJ designed that for him while they were still together?

Good question...and possible.But they were still together some of that time so she still may have made him that suit.