Homecoming Organics or Web-Shooters?

[Johnny-Oh]

Jonny don't act as if everyones crazy, given you've admitted yourself you won't actually elaborate on a point

Elaborating that point was irrelevant to the entire argument, unless you want me to write an entire script. You're the one making the implication that a Peter who can create the web shooters, isn't smart enough to create something else or find alternatives to fix his financial problems.

You're the one who started personal jabs just because you couldn't even debate my point about how we need to suspend our disbelief with both organics and mechanicals. Oh wait you did try to debate this except you referenced the comics(as if those don't require suspension of disbelief as well).

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I actually agree with you to an extent that their wasn't enough focus on the webshooter and the 'issues' that come with making them, but that's no reason to switch to organics. Organics are just a way to simplify the narrative without adding anything, yet they do take away from the character. I could just as easily say if the movies won't address all the issues that come with organic webshooters then they shouldn't do them at all. He would still be faced with a limited supply of webbing, and Raimi even had him lose his web shooting ability at times, yet what about the issue of Parker having to constantly hide his freakish arachnid forearms from everyone around him?

I elaborated on this in another board, but personally I would have made the web shooters a much larger and more important part of the origin story. I proposed a more complicated and detailed explanation for their creation which involved Parker engineering a transgenic bacteria to generate webbing for him. This way, producing the web would only be as expensive as cultivating colonies of bacteria and storing them in your closet.

Well yeah I don't think they necessarly SHOULD go with organics even if I prefer them but I do feel that if they go with mechs they should play a slightly more prominent role in the story.

 

[LizardMan07]

Elaborating that point was irrelevant to the entire argument, unless you want me to write an entire script. You're the one making the implication that a Peter who can create the web shooters, isn't smart enough to create something else or find alternatives to fix his financial problems.

You're the one who started personal jabs just because you couldn't even debate my point about how we need to suspend our disbelief with both organics and mechanicals. Oh wait you did try to debate this except you referenced the comics(as if those don't require suspension of disbelief as well).

So you're saying that the addition of webshooters means that Peter is intelligent enough to build other things, so does that mean you're saying an organic web Peter is stupider? And thus, mechanical webshooters provide a template to accentuate peters intelligence? Wonderful

Except, I addressed that, multiple times.

Mechanical stuff does not face the limit his biology would face, to consistently be producing that would need energy on a far more frequent basis than the mechanical stuff

Regardless of how the web material is stored, its still an extremely limited amount of webbing.

Well, evidently it's not based on 50 years of comics

Clearly the webbing is not limited, we know the system is economical with his fluid and throughout 50 years of comics we've been able to decipher a general idea of how long the webs last. Unlike organics this is actually explained.

Raimi never goes into specifics, it's "he moves his hand, web comes out". You cannot even say where the web comes from, so how can you know about the specifics and intricacies of it? Webshooters have been explained time after time and yet the biggest explanation of organics we've gotten is a tie between "go web go" and "lol no it's not his veins"

And what could he actually do? You're leaving that bit out

The reason I asked you to elaborate is that the concept of better benefiting from the pain of others had already been brought up and debunked and I tthink in your heart of hearts you know that too.

So yes, I've attempted to address what little points you have, and suprise surprise, because you can't elaborate, I can't debate on non existent points.

If you feel I'm making personal jabs at you, report it, becuase that's not allowed.

Otherwise, please attempt to make a point

 

[Johnny-Oh]

So you're saying that the addition of webshooters means that Peter is intelligent enough to build other things, so does that mean you're saying an organic web Peter is stupider? And thus, mechanical webshooters provide a template to accentuate peters intelligence? Wonderful

The reach!! But No, actually that's the notion many 'mech web' supporters have not me. If he made the web shooters it means he has the resources to create something else and the success at creating something as useful as the web shooters would motivate him to keep trying new things.

Clearly the webbing is not limited, we know the system is economical with his fluid and throughout 50 years of comics we've been able to decipher a general idea of how long the webs last. Unlike organics this is actually explained.

Raimi never goes into specifics, it's "he moves his hand, web comes out". You cannot even say where the web comes from, so how can you know about the specifics and intricacies of it? Webshooters have been explained time after time and yet the biggest explanation of organics we've gotten is a tie between "go web go" and "lol no it's not his veins"

I've been talking about the abstract idea of mechanical shooters and organic web, not necessarly about the comics, movies or the TV shows(except when I was specific about it). Most people don't know how it works in the comics so they have to suspend their desbelief with web shooters as much as they do with organic webs!!! That's what I meant, it really isn't so hard to understand.

The reason I asked you to elaborate is that the concept of better benefiting from the pain of others had already been brought up and debunked and I tthink in your heart of hearts you know that too.

So yes, I've attempted to address what little points you have, and suprise surprise, because you can't elaborate, I can't debate on non existent points.

If you feel I'm making personal jabs at you, report it, becuase that's not allowed.

Otherwise, please attempt to make a point

I can't elaborate? I've been repeating things constantly and you failed to explain, OH WAIT ... you're the guy who last time took my argument with another user out of context and you refused to admit you were wrong. Dude I don't know if you have something that doesn't allow you to understand what other people say but if it isn't that then you're just deliberately taking my words out of context to avoid admitting you were wrong. Its obvious that different opinions really bother you and I don't think you should take this forum that seriously.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Don't get me wrong, while I don't mind the idea of organics, I greatly prefer mechs, but this line of thinking is, and always has been ridiculous.

The hair and spinnerets on spiders are exactly where they need to be to be useful - they're on the best place, anatomically, for a spider to use and manipulate webbing. If we are to assume the spider-powers transfer to Peter in a logical sense, then spinnerets appearing on his wrists, and the "hairs" appearing on his finder tips and feet are exactly the best place, anatomically for them to appear in order to be useful. It takes far more of a leap in comic-book logic to assume that they would generate someplace UNuseful. His body would naturally adapt the powers of the spider to function properly for the biology and anatomy of a human.

Well put, Im glad there are people here who despite loving web shooters don't completely dismiss organics just for the sake of being different.

 

[Wildcard]

I don't mind the idea of organic webbing but they should definitely stick with the web-shooters.

 

[The Slang]

If Spider-man gets sick and he sprays people with goo from his body that comes from spider butts growing on his arms, will those people get sick? Like, could he spread diseases by coating people in his body fluids? That doesn't sound very heroic.

Say no to organics.

 

[Oscorp]

Well put, Im glad there are people here who despite loving web shooters don't completely dismiss organics just for the sake of being different.

What do you mean? Raimi's films ain't the source material here, the comics are! It's organic webbing that would be different.

And if you're looking at the poll, we who prefer the mechanical shooters aren't the one being "different".

 

[Galactus123]

I would be ok with either of them. I just hope that they change the sound the web shooters makes when Spidey shoots a web:


It was better in Raimi's movies.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

1) No, Spiders don't have fingers they have 8 limbs with millions of scopula. In this case the powers needed to adapt to Peter's anatomy to work which is the exact same thing with the web shooters, they adapted to Peter's body.

2) Yes he would.

3) He uses the "hande pose" to push the muscle that shoots the web.

I don't really understand what's the point of being so technical and specific about this when we're talking about a guy who gets Spidey powers in a world when other crazy things happen.

I agree to an extent. But they are taking a fictional character and placing him in the 'real' world and saying "look, this person exists." So it makes sense to me that people would look for real world reasoning for the things that occur. I don't think we have to hold every little thing accountable though.

I for one would greatly prefer to have mech webshooters and although I don't really have any major issues with organic--it worked fine in the Raimiverse, I took some of the common thoughts/arguments that are against the organic webbing and posed them as questions. I'd never really seen or can't recall seeing an argument for each of those, so naturally I was curious. Most responses are "cause it's a CBM!" or something similar. Sorry if I offended you in someway. I wanted to bring about some interesting discussion but it looks like that may have backfired.

 

[Infinight888]

Even putting aside how completely nonsensical organics are, as well as how Peter's powers worked in the comics, I think Mechanical works better for a more important reason:

They're limited. From a storytelling perspective, having his web-shooters get destroyed, or having him just run out of webbing, is a great way to add suspense into a Spider-Man story. It's a handicap, like Superman fighting someone with Kryptonite. And when his webs run out, his weapon choices are limited solely to his intellect and agility (also, minor super strength and precognition).

 

[BrollySupersj]

I would be ok with either of them. I just hope that they change the sound the web shooters makes when Spidey shoots a web:


It was better in Raimi's movies.

Both sounds were fine for what made them. In Raimi's movie the web was shot out by organic elements, had a very natural sound to it. Then in Webb's movies, the web had a mechanical sound to it.

 

[warhorse78]

What's stupid about mechanical webshooters and synthetic webbing?

They're actually ingenious concepts that are iconic and memorable like Cap's shield or Wolverine's adamantium claws.

What's iconic or memorable about a boy who shoots webs because he was bit by a spider? It's boring and lazy and anyone could've came up with it, even a child.

Oh, you mean the shield that is going to be smashed in the next movie, or how we now have had three movies with Wolvering not having his adamantium claws. The sheild and the claws are not what make those characters iconic, and the web shooters/organics is not what makes Spider-Man iconic.

In my opinion, webshooters are the lazy way out, since reading this forum, even Stan thought the audience wouldn't buy it. Glad Raimi had more faith in the GA than Stan did.

 

[warhorse78]

Yes he used impact webbing in clock tower fight scene with Dr Octopus, and he used it on Sandman in the armoured truck fight.

I prefer organic webbing to webshooters because having him run out of webbing is just the equivalent to running out of bullets in a gun. It is a handicap I never liked much for Spider-Man. There are lots of other ways to show Peter's intellect besides making webbing. They should start with the spider tracers in the new movie.

Funny thing, Spider-Man still ran out of his organic web in Spider-Man 2. So, this ruse that the webshooters make him more vulnerable, well, the Raimi Spider-Man had already tackled that with the organics.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Funny thing, Spider-Man still ran out of his organic web in Spider-Man 2. So, this ruse that the webshooters make him more vulnerable, well, the Raimi Spider-Man had already tackled that with the organics.

They had to asspull a dumb reason for it though (awww, he's sad and lost his lady friend and has no confidence in himself #afterschoolspecial)

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Oh, you mean the shield that is going to be smashed in the next movie, or how we now have had three movies with Wolvering not having his adamantium claws. The sheild and the claws are not what make those characters iconic, and the web shooters/organics is not what makes Spider-Man iconic.

In my opinion, webshooters are the lazy way out, since reading this forum, even Stan thought the audience wouldn't buy it. Glad Raimi had more faith in the GA than Stan did.

How many movies has Wolverine been without adamantium claws? Zero!

How many movies has Cap been without his shield? Zero!

And those weapons aren't iconic? lolwut?

Imagine Wolverine without indestructible claws or Cap without an indestructible sheild. Of course they're iconic.

and there's nothing lazy about mechanical webshooters or synthetic webbing. They actually required a creative process to conceptualize.

Anyone could come up with organics. Kid gets bit by a spider and now he can shoot webs just like a spider!

ZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!

Talk about lazy.

 

[BrollySupersj]

How many movies has Wolverine been without adamantium claws? Zero!

How many movies has Cap been without his shield? Zero!

And those weapons aren't iconic? lolwut?

Imagine Wolverine without indestructible claws or Cap without an indestructible sheild. Of course they're iconic.

and there's nothing lazy about mechanical webshooters or synthetic webbing. They actually required a creative process to conceptualize.

Anyone could come up with organics. Kid gets bit by a spider and now he can shoot webs just like a spider!

ZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!

Talk about lazy.

What about being bit by a spider and then sticking to walls?

They had to asspull a dumb reason for it though (awww, he's sad and lost his lady friend and has no confidence in himself #afterschoolspecial)

That sounds like over simplyfying the situation. Long story short, Peter was stressed. He had no money, he watched his best friend's faster die in front of him and can't tell him, the girl he loves is getting married, the city he works hard to protect hates his guts, his aunt is struggling to keep her house, you get it? Stress in real life is a very taxing thing that can take a heavy toll on someone. Peter was taking in stress where ever he went, there was no escape. Stress can have adverse effects on you biologically. Makes sense the same thing can happen to him and mess with his powers.

 

[AnneFan]

I'd prefer web-shooters, and I'm also open to spider tracers and even the spider-signal (!). Something really different this time that hasn't been done before, showing his technological mind in action.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What about being bit by a spider and then sticking to walls?

That's also lazy but Spider-man always stuck to walls.

The most inventive things about Spider-man are his costume, him being a nerdy teen, his mech webshooters, his spider-sense and his origin story.

You don't just throw those character details away for something less inspired.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't see how webshooters make him more vulnerable when:

a) it allows him to have different types of webs + attacks
b) it displays him as the badass genius he is
c) he can reload them on will as opposed to having to wait for the organics to naturally recharge

If anything, those are all advantages.

And also, I see it as a pointless argument to waste this much energy on given we know they'll most likely go with the webshooters. I mean, what are the chances they wont? (*knocks on wood*) I bet everyone a Chipotle burrito they will.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

you get it?

No, I'm sorry. I'm only five. You should probably stick to single syllable words. Or maybe a crayon drawing! I'm sure to puzzle out one of those, given enough time and encouragement.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

And also, I see it as a pointless argument to waste this much energy on given we know they'll most likely go with the webshooters. I mean, what are the chances they wont? (*knocks on wood*) I bet everyone a Chipotle burrito they will.

I agree but pointless arguing is what we do. And at least this is somewhat Spider-Man related and not just reading endless harryoscorp posts about how dreamy TeenWolf O'MazeRunner is.

 

[BrollySupersj]

No, I'm sorry. I'm only five. You should probably stick to single syllable words. Or maybe a crayon drawing! I'm sure to puzzle out one of those, given enough time and encouragement.

Wasn't meant to be insulting...

I don't see how webshooters make him more vulnerable when:

a) it allows him to have different types of webs + attacks
b) it displays him as the badass genius he is
c) he can reload them on will as opposed to having to wait for the organics to naturally recharge

If anything, those are all advantages.

And also, I see it as a pointless argument to waste this much energy on given we know they'll most likely go with the webshooters. I mean, what are the chances they wont? (*knocks on wood*) I bet everyone a Chipotle burrito they will.

I've had this thought as well. With organic webbing, yes it is possible he can never run out, but then it's all he's stuck with. He's unable to adapt his webbing and still must think think of alternative ways to to win.

 

[The Slang]

Wasn't meant to be insulting...



I've had this thought as well. With organic webbing, yes it is possible he can never run out, but then it's all he's stuck with. He's unable to adapt his webbing and still must think think of alternative ways to to win.

Even with organics there has to be a limit to the amount of web he can produce within a given time. It's just up to the writers to decide when he runs out, with or without organics.
One difference would be that the mechanical web shooter can be damaged and repaired in ways the organics can't. Writers could even find ways for Spider-man to adapt his webbing using organics if they wanted to, but this is simpler to do when the web fluid is synthetic and Parker mixes it himself, which is one of the reasons I like mechanical better.

You can use organics to achieve most of the same effects you can with mechanicals, but that's because the organics were made to behave exactly like the mechanical webshooters. The organics behave like machines anyway, so why not leave them that way? They launch projectiles long range and they can be controlled to change formation of the web. I don't think many people think about it, but how does Spider-man adjust the formation of his webs with organics? Sometimes he shoots a rope, sometimes he shoots a solid ball, sometimes he shoots a completed net that is fired in the shape of a spider web (which is something spiders can't do). With organics, the explanation would have to be that he somehow clenches his muscles or glands or what ever to create the complicated web formations he does. This is something that's easier to achieve with an adjustable mechanism, and that's because the organics were modeled after the mechanicals.

Organics are a needless change that keep everything about the mechanical webshooter as it is, only now they're part of his natural abilities. It simplifies the story but it subtracts from it too, at least when it's done like Raimi's movies. Cameron actually acknowledged the organics in his script by having characters react to them so they actually added to the story. Parker was ashamed of them and told people his webs were artificial. Mary Jane is freaked out when she sees them. Then there's the scene where he wakes up covered in web and sees the spinnerets on his wrists oozing. Those moments actually contributed to the story but most people probably don't want that sort of thing in a Spider-man movie.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Wasn't meant to be insulting...

It's fine. I have seen the movie a bunch of times though, and have never really felt that part worked very well.