Homecoming Organics or Web-Shooters?

[UltimateWebhead]

Here's a couple of questions about the organics:

1) If Peter was handed down the trait of organic webbing from the spider, why does the spinneret end up in his wrists and not from his backside?

In some iterations he gets little hairs that sprout from his fingertips and feet. Those are in the same area that a spider has its hair--on the tips of their legs. So why are the spinnerets not in the same place as well?

2) Would Pete's body be able to produce enough fluid to web across town, fight a villain and web home? Surely he'd become dehydrated or suffer some other ill effects having to produce that much. Right??

3) With mechanized webbing, Peter makes the signature Spidey hand pose to push the button that releases the web fluid. Why does he need to make the same hand pose to shoot organic webbing? There's no button to push.

 

[LizardMan07]

I think mechanical webshooters do give marvel a chance to explore Peters intelligence in a way we haven't before. Whilst it hasn't before I think that webshooters have a higher ceiling for success as they're more variable. Organic is basically one thing, web shoots. Seeing Peter tinker with his webs, make it stronger, faster, different. Hed be the teenage Tony stark.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Here's a couple of questions about the organics:

1) If Peter was handed down the trait of organic webbing from the spider, why does the spinneret end up in his wrists and not from his backside?

In some iterations he gets little hairs that sprout from his fingertips and feet. Those are in the same area that a spider has its hair--on the tips of their legs. So why are the spinnerets not in the same place as well?

2) Would Pete's body be able to produce enough fluid to web across town, fight a villain and web home? Surely he'd become dehydrated or suffer some other ill effects having to produce that much. Right??

3) With mechanized webbing, Peter makes the signature Spidey hand pose to push the button that releases the web fluid. Why does he need to make the same hand pose to shoot organic webbing? There's no button to push.

Don't get me wrong, while I don't mind the idea of organics, I greatly prefer mechs, but this line of thinking is, and always has been ridiculous.

The hair and spinnerets on spiders are exactly where they need to be to be useful - they're on the best place, anatomically, for a spider to use and manipulate webbing. If we are to assume the spider-powers transfer to Peter in a logical sense, then spinnerets appearing on his wrists, and the "hairs" appearing on his finder tips and feet are exactly the best place, anatomically for them to appear in order to be useful. It takes far more of a leap in comic-book logic to assume that they would generate someplace UNuseful. His body would naturally adapt the powers of the spider to function properly for the biology and anatomy of a human.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Here's a couple of questions about the organics:

1) If Peter was handed down the trait of organic webbing from the spider, why does the spinneret end up in his wrists and not from his backside?

In some iterations he gets little hairs that sprout from his fingertips and feet. Those are in the same area that a spider has its hair--on the tips of their legs. So why are the spinnerets not in the same place as well?

2) Would Pete's body be able to produce enough fluid to web across town, fight a villain and web home? Surely he'd become dehydrated or suffer some other ill effects having to produce that much. Right??

3) With mechanized webbing, Peter makes the signature Spidey hand pose to push the button that releases the web fluid. Why does he need to make the same hand pose to shoot organic webbing? There's no button to push.

according to some here, the mechanical webshooters should be filled with the fluid he poops out

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Don't get me wrong, while I don't mind the idea of organics, I greatly prefer mechs, but this line of thinking is, and always has been ridiculous.

The hair and spinnerets on spiders are exactly where they need to be to be useful - they're on the best place, anatomically, for a spider to use and manipulate webbing. If we are to assume the spider-powers transfer to Peter in a logical sense, then spinnerets appearing on his wrists, and the "hairs" appearing on his finder tips and feet are exactly the best place, anatomically for them to appear in order to be useful. It takes far more of a leap in comic-book logic to assume that they would generate someplace UN useful.

I've always seen the statement "well if he were to be like a Spider, then he should get the spinneret on his butt or back or whatever." I don't necessarily agree with that statement, but I've also never seen anyone give an explanation for why they end up on his wrists. It's usually, "It's a CB!" or something similar.

More than anything I was looking for someone that prefers the organics to come up with their 'own' logic for why it ends up in his wrists. I like your answer.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I think mechanical webshooters do give marvel a chance to explore Peters intelligence in a way we haven't before. Whilst it hasn't before I think that webshooters have a higher ceiling for success as they're more variable. Organic is basically one thing, web shoots. Seeing Peter tinker with his webs, make it stronger, faster, different. Hed be the teenage Tony stark.

this one gets it

 

[BrollySupersj]

Don't get me wrong, while I don't mind the idea of organics, I greatly prefer mechs, but this line of thinking is, and always has been ridiculous.

The hair and spinnerets on spiders are exactly where they need to be to be useful - they're on the best place, anatomically, for a spider to use and manipulate webbing. If we are to assume the spider-powers transfer to Peter in a logical sense, then spinnerets appearing on his wrists, and the "hairs" appearing on his finder tips and feet are exactly the best place, anatomically for them to appear in order to be useful. It takes far more of a leap in comic-book logic to assume that they would generate someplace UNuseful. His body would naturally adapt the powers of the spider to function properly for the biology and anatomy of a human.

Nicely put.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Serious question: why does there have to be an 'or' in this equation? Why couldn't you have organically produced webbing channeled through mechanical web-shooter dispensers?

Because synthetic webbing allows Peter to change his webbing formula to meet challenges. It also shows how important Peter's nerdiness is for being a superhero. And they allow Peter to retain his humanity.

You wouldn't want Spider-Girl to lay eggs would you?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You wouldn't want Spider-Girl to lay eggs would you?

Can she then fire those eggs through specially designed mechanical eggshooters?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Anyway organic webs funneled through a device just reeks of over-thinking and trying to appease both sides of the debate, and I use the word debate very loosely because judging by the poll results people are overwhelmingly in favor of mechanical shooters.

 

[Shikamaru]

No not necessarly but it does suggest that he wasn't against that idea which is my main point.

I read your post but I fail to see what variety of attacks he can do with web shooters, I didn't saw any of that in either of the TV shows or the TASM films.

Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular have gone the variety route in the past, as did TASM2 briefly. Impact webbing in particular is the most iconic attack of all of them.

Regardless, the comics are littered with them and the goal of this franchise is to stay long-term, whereas two of the three incarnations I just brought up were cancelled prematurely.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Raimi movies had impact webbing as well with the organics. I loved that.

 

[Shikamaru]

Did they actually? I don't remember. Either way, I think it works better when you do it with webshooters.

There's also certain villains where having different types of webbing would be greatly beneficial. Examples include the non-conductive webbing for Electro, the non-flammable webbing for Molten Man and strong fires, and acid webbing. All those not just provide variety, but they display Peter's intellect and creativity. You can't really capture that with the organics.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Yes he used impact webbing in clock tower fight scene with Dr Octopus, and he used it on Sandman in the armoured truck fight.

I prefer organic webbing to webshooters because having him run out of webbing is just the equivalent to running out of bullets in a gun. It is a handicap I never liked much for Spider-Man. There are lots of other ways to show Peter's intellect besides making webbing. They should start with the spider tracers in the new movie.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Spider-tracers aren't that impressive when compared to synthetic webbing.

Even Tony Stark would respect the brains it took to make an effective web formula.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

That is another thing that I don't like about webshooters. Peter and Aunt May struggling with money but he never sell that invention and make money. If he smart enough to invent things like that but let himself and his Aunt struggle financially it make him look stupid. At least when Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne invent things you know they already billionaires who don't need the money.

Spider tracers are impressive and good way to show how he is a inventive teenager.

 

[Shikamaru]

@MessiahDecoy123 Agreed.

Plus, UltimateWebhead brought up a really good point about how the organic webbing would have its limits too. Waiting until the body rehydrates to produce more webbing would arguably be a bigger handicap than just reloading whenever you want to.

That is another thing that I don't like about webshooters. Peter and Aunt May struggling with money but he never sell that invention and make money. If he smart enough to invent things like that but let himself and his Aunt struggle financially it make him look stupid. At least when Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne invent things you know they already billionaires who don't need the money.

Spider tracers are impressive and good way to show how he is a inventive teenager.

By that logic, it makes him look stupid either way. There's many other spider inventions besides the webshooters that he can sell.

The problem with selling them is that it would a) reveal his identity and b) make it way harder for Spider-Man to function at helping people, if at all. Peter is all about not using his abilities for personal gain at the expense of others. That's what WGPCGR is all about. Having Spider-Man use his abilities in that fashion would be the equivalent of Batman killing with a gun.

Also, there's very few incarnations where Peter and Aunt May are "poor". They're not exactly the richest people in Queens, but to suggest they're lower class is absurd.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Who say his body needs hydration for organic webbing to work?

By that logic, it makes him look stupid either way. There's many other spider inventions besides the webshooters that he can sell.

The problem with selling them is that it would a) reveal his identity and b) make it way harder for Spider-Man to function at helping people, if at all. Peter is all about not using his abilities for personal gain at the expense of others. That's what WGPCGR is all about. Having Spider-Man use his abilities in that fashion would be the equivalent of Batman killing with a gun.

Also, there's very few incarnations where Peter and Aunt May are "poor". They're not exactly the richest people in Queens, but to suggest they're lower class is absurd.

All his other inventions are technology that already exists. There is tracing device technology he just made one in a spider shape lol. I do not see how selling the chemical formula for webbing would give away his identity. It's just an adhesive that he sprays into fine strands like webbing. And he can still use his powers for helping people. I mean what do you call him taking photos of himself as Spider-Man and selling to Daily Bugle? That is profiting off being Spider-Man but it ok because he still helping people. He can still sell his technology and still keep using it.

Peter and Aunt May were always struggling with money. Not now in newer comics when Peter got better job as teacher and then lab tech. But in the Stan Lee years Aunt May always finding it hard to pay bills, Peter always feel guilty he couldn't help her. All he had to do is sell his web formula and he could have helped his poor struggling Aunt and himself. It make no sense.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yes he used impact webbing in clock tower fight scene with Dr Octopus, and he used it on Sandman in the armoured truck fight.

Plus those thieves in the convertible.

 

[fixxxer]

Let's call it what it was.

The concept of the organic webbing in the first Raimi movie, in conjunction with the rapid development of his musculature, gaining a measure of confidence, etc. was basically a clumsily executed, thinly veiled and, honestly, extremely frickin' icky puberty allegory. No thanks. Mechanical web shooters is a no brainer.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Plus those thieves in the convertible.

Yes them as well. That was great. He disarmed them with it.

Let's call it what it was.

The concept of the organic webbing in the first Raimi movie, in conjunction with the rapid development of his musculature, gaining a measure of confidence, etc. was basically a clumsily executed, thinly veiled and extremely icky puberty allegory. No thanks. Mechanical web shooters is a no brainer.

You have a dirty mind lol

 

[Shikamaru]

Who say his body needs hydration for organic webbing to work?

It's a good point when you think about it. How much fluid would his body have to produce to swing across from Queens till Manhattan and beyond?

All his other inventions are technology that already exists. There is tracing device technology he just made one in a spider shape lol. I do not see how selling the chemical formula for webbing would give away his identity. It's just an adhesive that he sprays into fine strands like webbing.

Are there tracers calibrated to react to someone's senses? That's how advanced the spider tracers have gotten. Peter programmed them so they could react to his spider sense, and he did it all as a young brat in his basement. Even without that aspect, simply showing someone what he was able to do in high school would immediately impress grown scientists paid to make those sorts of devices in a lab.

Furthermore, your entire premise is rooted in the idea that Peter shouldn't invent things that don't exist. Being a scientist is all about inventing and discovering things that don't exist. That's kinda what the whole job is about. He wouldn't be a young Reed Richards or Tony Stark then, he would be a low-budget Bruce Wayne.

And he can still use his powers for helping people. I mean what do you call him taking photos of himself as Spider-Man and selling to Daily Bugle? That is profiting off being Spider-Man but it ok because he still helping people. He can still sell his technology and still keep using it.

I said Peter is all about not using his abilities for personal gain at the expense of others. His job isn't at the expense of others, especially since the reason he got it in the first place is to help Aunt May with bills.

Peter and Aunt May were always struggling with money. Not now in newer comics when Peter got better job as teacher and then lab tech. But in the Stan Lee years Aunt May always finding it hard to pay bills, Peter always feel guilty he couldn't help her. All he had to do is sell his web formula and he could have helped his poor struggling Aunt and himself. It make no sense.

"Struggling with money" does not mean you're poor. Middle class people have plenty of moments when they're struggling with money. That by itself doesn't mean you live in poverty. Peter and May still have a decent quality home in a decent neighborhood. You're acting like he lives in the Marvel version of Hell's Kitchen.

The closest they've ever got to being poor was right after Ben's death when there was only one salary to live from, which is understandable. Which gradually started to go away after Peter got his first job, but that's never been the ongoing status quo. They may still struggle in other ways, but rarely are they shown not being able to afford the basic necessities for survival (food, water, electricity).

 

[The Slang]

Don't get me wrong, while I don't mind the idea of organics, I greatly prefer mechs, but this line of thinking is, and always has been ridiculous.

The hair and spinnerets on spiders are exactly where they need to be to be useful - they're on the best place, anatomically, for a spider to use and manipulate webbing.

A spider would benefit from having spinnerets on it's legs, it just simply didn't evolve that way. The abdomen houses the organs, not the limbs.

If we are to assume the spider-powers transfer to Peter in a logical sense, then spinnerets appearing on his wrists, and the "hairs" appearing on his finder tips and feet are exactly the best place, anatomically for them to appear in order to be useful.

You're confusing what is logical for what is convenient. There's nothing logical about the spinnerets appearing on his wrists, it's merely convenient from the perspective of design, yet Parker's transformation wasn't the product of design, so the web shooters appearing on his wrists is contrived.

It takes far more of a leap in comic-book logic to assume that they would generate someplace UNuseful. His body would naturally adapt the powers of the spider to function properly for the biology and anatomy of a human.

No it wouldn't. What makes you think that? Life doesn't function that way. If you transfer genetic material from one animal to another, the body will not naturally redesign itself to more conveniently utilize new genes. That sort of thing would require an intelligence with foresight to determine that the wrists are 'better' positions for the web shooters. But the body doesn't have intelligence in that sense, and so it can not not make decisions like that in regard to design.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It's a good point when you think about it. How much fluid would his body have to produce to swing across from Queens till Manhattan and beyond?

Probably the same amount of energy you would need to do the super power things he does lol.

Are there tracers calibrated to react to someone's senses? That's how advanced the spider tracers have gotten. Peter programmed them so they could react to his spider sense, and he did it all as a young brat in his basement. Even without that aspect, simply showing someone what he was able to do in high school would immediately impress grown scientists paid to make those sorts of devices in a lab.

There is no tracers calibrated to react to someone's senses. The tracers he created was so he could follow people. Tracking technology. Read ASM #11 for first time he builds a spider tracer.

Impressing grown scientists he can do those kind of things is a good thing. Show people how intelligent he is so he can advance in life.

Furthermore, your entire premise is rooted in the idea that Peter shouldn't invent things that don't exist. Being a scientist is all about inventing and discovering things that don't exist. That's kinda what the whole job is about. He wouldn't be a young Reed Richards or Tony Stark then, he would be a low-budget Bruce Wayne.

That's lies. I never said Peter shouldn't invent things that don't exist. I said his spider tracer tech and other tech was all based on tech that already exists. And selling tech that doesn't exist wouldn't give away his identity.

I said Peter is all about not using his abilities for personal gain at the expense of others. His job isn't at the expense of others, especially since the reason he got it in the first place is to help Aunt May with bills.

Selling his inventions wouldn't be at the expense of others either Shikamaru so you are wrong.

"Struggling with money" does not mean you're poor. Middle class people have plenty of moments when they're struggling with money. That by itself doesn't mean you live in poverty. Peter and May still have a decent quality home in a decent neighborhood. You're acting like he lives in the Marvel version of Hell's Kitchen.

I did not act like they live in poverty. Stop making up lies. I said they struggle with money, Aunt May could hardly pay her bills, and life was much harder than it had to be and Peter could have stopped all that stress and worry but he didn't.

It make him look stupid to struggle all the time when he could easily help his Aunt and himself so much.

The closest they've ever got to being poor was right after Ben's death when there was only one salary to live from, which is understandable. Which gradually started to go away after Peter got his first job, but that's never been the ongoing status quo. They may still struggle in other ways, but rarely are they shown not being able to afford the basic necessities for survival (food, water, electricity).

There was no salary after Ben died. Aunt May was not working. Peter was first person to bring in any pay money from selling Spider-Man photos. Even after that they still struggled with money. And with hospital bills when ever Aunt May got sick.

It is famous thing about Peter's troubles. Struggler with money, and wanting to help Aunt May who also is struggling. He could have if he just sold his web formula to an adhesive company or science industry. That why webshooters make him look stupid.

 

[fixxxer]

You have a dirty mind lol

Possibly, but immaterial. No one can convince me that that wasn't exactly what Raimi was aiming for.